Ryan Gravenberch | signs for Liverpool

[LordSpud]

We'll dilly dally around for Gravenberch, meanwhile the dippers will go and sign Amrabat and they will end up getting the better player. Boring script.

 

[MadMike]

He didn't simply swap Eriksen for Mount though did he. The way he has us set up is completely different.

Is it though? I watched both our games and I don't really feel like it is. The main difference I see is with the team being higher up the pitch and relying on Onana to be more out of his line than DDG was. I don't see any significant change in midfield from Eriksen to Mount. This "completely different" talk is out of place, imo.

 

[Skills]

We'll dilly dally around for Gravenberch, meanwhile the dippers will go and sign Amrabat and they will end up getting the better player. Boring script.

I don't think anyone but us is interested in him. No risk of that happening.

 

[Laurencio]

Decent player with lots of potential. I would push Mount out right as he works harder than Antony and Sancho anyway. At least Gravenberch knows how to play one of the most crucial and key-positions in a ten Hag system.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

We'll dilly dally around for Gravenberch, meanwhile the dippers will go and sign Amrabat and they will end up getting the better player. Boring script.

The Athletic have posted an article today saying that Endo, Liverpool's new Japanese signing is their solution to a defensive midfielder and they aren't targeting another one.

As far as Gravenberch is concerned, I don't understand how a player that is not good enough for Bayern will be good enough here?

 

[FrankDrebin]

-----------Casemiro-----------
---------------------------Gravenberch
-----------Bruno---------
Mount------------------Rashford---
------------Hojlund-----------

?

It sort of looks balanced.
Maybe ETH is finally tired of Antony doing naff-all.

 

[cyberman]

You're working off the assumption that you know what ETH is thinking and then adding another fallacy on top, that if ETH thinks it then he must be right.

You don't even know if we're going for Gravenberch or it's just twitter hype. You don't even know if he's thought of as an option for #8 or for #6. We've been watching McTominay for years. We know he's not a DM and he's better with less defensive and positional responsibility. Don't need ETH to tell us anything about that. Also, coaches get stuff wrong all the time. Fans even more so of course, but it doesn't mean that if a coach believes something they're automatically right.

I personally don't believe Gravenberch improves the squad in any position. Fred was a better #8 than Gravenberch all day & night long.

I’m only going by the story and it’s from reliable sources.
I’ve seen no evidence that he wants to abandon playing two 8s so I have no reason to pretend this signing is a threat to that.
I can see what he’s thinking since I’ve watched United all pre season and for the first two games.
Imagine we went into the season with just 2 CBs for 2 positions. We’re shitting ourselves because we bought Hojlund and have no cover. Why would the 8 positions be any different?

 

[redNATION]

-----------Casemiro-----------
---------------------------Gravenberch
-----------Bruno---------
Mount------------------Rashford---
------------Hojlund-----------

?

Probably, effectively means Mount at 10 and coming in, AWB taking right on his own

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Are we in the 'screwed up his face' phase yet?

 

[sullydnl]

Is it though? I watched both our games and I don't really feel like it is. The main difference I see is with the team being higher up the pitch and relying on Onana to be more out of his line than DDG was. I don't see any significant change in midfield from Eriksen to Mount. This "completely different" talk is out of place, imo.

I think that's because it changed a bit even last season. In the second half of the season Eriksen/Fred/Sabitzer were playing advanced more often than Eriksen was earlier in the season. People just didn't notice the shift in positioning as much as it didn't involve a new signing coming in.

 

[cyberman]

And has since signed 3 midfielders. Obviously Ten Hag wanted him last season, he seemed to want everyone he has ever coached.

It’s a reactionary signing because any role in the midfield 3 he is signing him for would be one that he has signed a player for within the last 12 months. One within the last 12 weeks. Unless Gravenberch is coming to replace the captain, which is unlikely.

And sure, such a long term strategy this is that we are considering a loan move.

What’s wrong with a loan move? Frees up money to spend elsewhere this summer? Why would we turn that down?
I don’t understand your first point. Should we have signed nobody and waited until now until Gravenberch became available? What’s signing 3 players got to do with anything?

 

[GhastlyHun]

Why did we buy Mount? Why did we buy Mount

To mount all sorts of title challenges, duh

 

[Lemoor]

As far as Gravenberch is concerned, I don't understand how a player that is not good enough for Bayern will be good enough here?

He's still likely miles better than the alternatives. Bayern has absurdly good central midfielders.

 

[Laurencio]

-----------Casemiro-----------
---------------------------Gravenberch
-----------Bruno---------
Mount------------------Rashford---
------------Hojlund-----------

?

It sort of looks balanced.
Maybe ETH is finally tired of Antony doing naff-all.

Sancho as a false 9 for when Hojlund is unavailable and maybe we'll see some improvement. Mount out wide makes a lot of sense.

The Athletic have posted an article today saying that Endo, Liverpool's new Japanese signing is their solution to a defensive midfielder and they aren't targeting another one.

As far as Gravenberch is concerned, I don't understand how a player that is not good enough for Bayern will be good enough here?

He's behind Leon Goretzka. That is one hell of a midfielder to compete with. He wants to play regularly, and Bayern will profit from selling him.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Sancho as a false 9 for when Hojlund is unavailable and maybe we'll see some improvement. Mount out wide makes a lot of sense.

Still not defensively sound looking though, which is what we have been asking for.

 

[VorZakone]

What's so special about this kid?

 

[HTG]

He's still likely miles better than the alternatives. Bayern has absurdly good central midfielders.

We really don’t. It’s basically consensus among our fans that central midfield is our biggest weakness. Gravenberch is unable to break into the team despite that. Kimmich is great but out of form. The rest is not particularly good.

 

[Rozay]

What’s wrong with a loan move? Frees up money to spend elsewhere this summer? Why would we turn that down?
I don’t understand your first point. Should we have signed nobody and waited until now until Gravenberch became available? What’s signing 3 players got to do with anything?

I don’t think my point was that unclear. If we wanted to sign Mike Maignan this summer but couldn’t so signed Onana instead, do we just go and sign Maignan next summer and justify it with the fact we wanted him last year?

We signed other midfielders instead, you don’t then just add Gravenberch, De Jong, Rice and any other midfielder on top of them. You make choices, and this pursuit gives the appearance that he is mot satisfied with his expensive Mason Mount choice already.

Nothing wrong with a loan either, however it is, by definition, short term, not the long term that we all fail to understand as you put it, is my point.

 

[Mickeza]

I think that's because it changed a bit even last season. In the second half of the season Eriksen/Fred/Sabitzer were playing advanced more often than Eriksen was earlier in the season. People just didn't notice the shift in positioning as much as it didn't involve a new signing coming in.

Exactly. We’ve been playing two 8s for some time.

 

[Laurencio]

Still not defensively sound looking though, which is what we have been asking for.

Well that isn't happening with Bruno playing. We need someone in the middle to link midfield together - the space between Cas and Bruno is a gaping hole - we clearly hoped Mount would do that, but that seems to be a process that will take some time.

 

[MadMike]

I’m only going by the story and it’s from reliable sources.
I’ve seen no evidence that he wants to abandon playing two 8s so I have no reason to pretend this signing is a threat to that.
I can see what he’s thinking since I’ve watched United all pre season and for the first two games.
Imagine we went into the season with just 2 CBs for 2 positions. We’re shitting ourselves because we bought Hojlund and have no cover. Why would the 8 positions be any different?

I told you already. Because we literally have a lot of cover for those #8 positions as is. Eriksen, VDB and McTominay, all better players than Gravenberch imo, without even including the youngsters like Hannibal. We have too many 8s already as is, cover is literally not the issue. Which is also why Fred was let go. You don't let Fred go to then try to replace him in the last minute with an inferior player in Gravenberch, if you're concerned about cover.

 

[Redstain]

-----------Casemiro-----------
---------------------------Gravenberch
-----------Bruno---------
Mount------------------Rashford---
------------Hojlund-----------

?

It sort of looks balanced.
Maybe ETH is finally tired of Antony doing naff-all.

If Mount was on the left it has shades of the formation Chelsea played against City to win the UCL final. I think Mount has use in this team just not as an 8. He's a good understudy to Bruno though not as creative but can score. Mount further forward and the feeling around the player is totally different.

I did see a poster mention ETH not having conviction behind his decision to make change (unsure how to multi-quote) but I think the manager has shown conviction. To sign a player for the new system using one third of the budget before even playing the system in a competitive league game is a big move.

Ajax fans have criticised ETH of his stubbornness, if the new system isn't working to the degree it was anticipated, then its good the coaches can recognise that and make the adjustments. United imo simply don't have the players for the double 8 system because the players in those positions aren't natural to the roles. It's supposed to be two 8s but look at the distances between them and Casemiro it's essentially two 10s.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think that's because it changed a bit even last season. In the second half of the season Eriksen/Fred/Sabitzer were playing advanced more often than Eriksen was earlier in the season. People just didn't notice the shift in positioning as much as it didn't involve a new signing coming in.

I said this to another poster and he thought I was making things up.

Good to say there's still sanity on the cafe.

 

[dinostar77]

What's so special about this kid?

He worked with ETH before. Thats all.

Not what we need at all. Amrabat, being a more defensive, deeper, strong, ball passer is what we need to help casemiro out.

 

[cyberman]

I told you already. Because we literally have a lot of cover for those #8 positions as is. Eriksen, VDB and McTominay, all better players than Gravenberch imo, without even including the youngsters like Hannibal. We have too many 8s already as is, cover is literally not the issue. Which is also why Fred was let go. You don't let Fred go to then try to replace him in the last minute with an inferior player in Gravenberch, if you're concerned about cover.

And the fact we seem to be after Gravenberch should signal that he doesn’t rate those two in the double 8 formation?
If he did think those two could play at a high level in those positions then why didn’t we start playing this way last season?
We are literally in the process of selling VDB to Spain for a reason

 

[Laurencio]

He worked with ETH before. Thats all.

Not what we need at all. Amrabat, being a more defensive, deeper, strong, ball passer is what we need to help casemiro out.

His stats suggests otherwise?

https://fbref.com/en/players/5a2cb25d/Sofyan-Amrabat

https://fbref.com/en/players/b8e740fb/Ryan-Gravenberch

 

[MadMike]

And the fact we seem to be after Gravenberch should signal that he doesn’t rate those two in the double 8 formation?
If he did think those two could play at a high level in those positions then why didn’t we start playing this way last season?
We are literally in the process of selling BDB to Spain for a reason

Both Eriksen and Fred played as 8s last season. McTominay was used as a cover for Case. If he doesn't rate Scott or VDB as 8s (he played the latter as #8 for Ajax) and wanted more quality depth, he could have just kept Fred after buying Mount.
There's very little nothing to suggest that Gravenberch is a better #8 for this level than Scott, Eriksen or Fred.

 

[Rozay]

Exactly. We’ve been playing two 8s for some time.

Playing a double 8 is not a problem. Playing a double 8 without even one 8 however, is more the issue.

 

[cyberman]

Both Eriksen and Fred played as 8s last season. McTominay was used as a cover for Case. If he doesn't rate Scott or VDB as 8s (he played the latter as #8 for Ajax) and wanted more quality depth, he could have just kept Fred after buying Mount.
There's very little nothing to suggest that Gravenberch is a better #8 for this level than Scott, Eriksen or Fred.

Not in the double 8 position, no. It’s completely different hence our struggle to adapt this far.
Fred played his way out of the team with his performances during the second half of last season and this place cried for Eriksen to be dropped for a reason

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

So I've never seen this guy live.
I've read people on here say he's a number 10, and then I've read reviews from other people stating he's a solid 8.

What is he?!

 

[Laurencio]

So I've never seen this guy live.
I've read people on here say he's a number 10, and then I've read reviews from other people stating he's a solid 8.

What is he?!

All-around jack of all trades. Decent at everything, but not exceptional at anything in particular - yet.

 

[Blood Mage]

He literally only signs players who he's either worked with before or who are similar to players he's worked with before. I hope to god the new owners don't indulge ETH with transfers like the Glazers have, we need a proper DoF.

 

[the_cliff]

So I've never seen this guy live.
I've read people on here say he's a number 10, and then I've read reviews from other people stating he's a solid 8.

What is he?!

He's an 8.

 

[MadMike]

Not in the double 8 position, no. It’s completely different hence our struggle to adapt this far.
Fred played his way out of the team with his performances during the second half of last season and this place cried for Eriksen to be dropped for a reason

Yes in the double 8 position, yes. The fact this placed cried for Eriksen to be dropped last season doesn't matter for this comparison. No one cried for Gravenberch to be bought instead. Gravenberch has not done anything in his career yet to show that he's a better option than Fred or Eriksen. In any midfield position.

 

[Idxomer]

His stats suggests otherwise?

https://fbref.com/en/players/5a2cb25d/Sofyan-Amrabat

https://fbref.com/en/players/b8e740fb/Ryan-Gravenberch

Gravenberch's stats especially defensively are deceiving because it's based on just 788 minutes.

 

[cyberman]

Yes in the double 8 position, yes. The fact this placed cried for Eriksen to be dropped last season doesn't matter for this comparison. No one cried for Gravenberch to be bought instead. Gravenberch has not done anything in his career yet to show that he's a better option than Fred or Eriksen. In any midfield position.

Fred and VDB being sold while Eriksen has been fecked off to the bench suggest Ten Hag may not agree with you.

 

[the_cliff]

Just a question for all those not wanting this signing.

Which midfielder would you prefer to buy over him, be realistic and within a price range of 20-25 mill...

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Just a question for all those not wanting this signing.

Which midfielder would you prefer to buy over him, be realistic and within a price range of 20-25 mill...

Amrabat. He fits the profile of midfielder we need much more than Gravenberch.

 

[Marwood]

Just a question for all those not wanting this signing.

Which midfielder would you prefer to buy over him, be realistic and within a price range of 20-25 mill...

But we're only in that price range because of what's already been spent on Mount.

I think most are confused as to why we've needlessly put ourselves in this position.

Not so much why this particular player.

 

[MadMike]

Fred and VDB being sold while Eriksen has been fecked off to the bench suggest Ten Hag may not agree with you.

Here we go again. He may or may not, you don't know either way. But even if he doesn't, that doesn't make him right.

Gravenberch has been pretty mediocre. Got only 550 league minutes at Bayern last season, played less minutes for Bayern in the league than Sabitzer despite the latter being loaned to us for half the season. Yet somehow people think he's going to bring an improvement in the quality here at United.