San Marino

[adexkola]

The elitists and their posts in this thread can feck off.

San Marino is a country. They deserve to have a national team and play against other teams in UEFA. If they aren't complaining about their status, why would anyone else? Take the easy win, respect the opponents, and jog on

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Yeah maybe you could say it for Charlton, but Kane has been far better than Rooney in bigger games and tournaments for England. Kane has 10 goals in 3 major tournaments, Rooney had 7 over 6 tournaments.

And 4 of Rooney's goals came in that 2004 tournament. He was generally very disappointing in tournaments for England after 2004.

 

[Josh 76]

And 4 of Rooney's goals came in that 2004 tournament. He was generally very disappointing in tournaments for England after 2004.

Rooney being the highest goal scorer for England has papered over the cracks of how crap his international career actually was. Apart from 2004, he has been disappointing. I will be happy when Kane breaks his record.

 

[Champ]

The elitists and their posts in this thread can feck off.

San Marino is a country. They deserve to have a national team and play against other teams in UEFA. If they aren't complaining about their status, why would anyone else? Take the easy win, respect the opponents, and jog on

A country that don't even have a professional footballing pyramid....

It's a joke.

A bunch of amatuers playing top level football? Igf we are going to give San Marino a chance against the best, why don't we allow all the lower semi pro teams in the FA Cup to gain entry at the third round??

What good does it do San Marino to rock up and play the likes of England every other qualifying campaign?

Would it not be better for them to play and become competitive against teams their own level and exploring the idea of a professional league in their tiny country first before getting destroyed again?

 

[Posh Red]

Rooney being the highest goal scorer for England has papered over the cracks of how crap his international career actually was. Apart from 2004, he has been disappointing. I will be happy when Kane breaks his record.

Why?

 

[RUCK4444]

In the case of Rooney it just isn't true. Kane has the same amount of goals against the absolute minnows as Rooney did. Kane actually doubled his tally against the minnows last night. Kane only started 1/4 games against San Marino and Andorra in this qualification campaign. In the case of Linekar he didn't play as much dross that is true.

I've probably watched every single England game of both Kane and Rooney's career. The simple fact is that this England team is much better than most of the versions that Rooney played in and Kane has been better for England than Rooney was. In Rooney's era most qualifcation campaigns were a borefest. We would play awful football and sneak wins against the like of Albania, Slovenia etc. These days we rack up high scores a lot more against those sides.

I think Rooney's era was worse for competition levels too. Before the Nations League we used to play some garbage friendlies. Towards the end of Rooney's career we did start to only play 'prestige friendlies' against the better nations but all through Kane's career and before the Nations League we played those types of friendlies.

We have drawn San Marino 3 times in the past decade which is why it seems like we play them a lot.

Is this England team much better than the teams Rooney played in? I always thought that those England teams were managed awfully and you had some world class players that should have been making it to semi-finals and finals on the regular.

I mean, on paper, Rooney's England side is definitely better I would say. The likes of Cole, Rio, Terry, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Rooney, Owen, Beckham... all in their prime. Those teams were just awfully managed, also have perhaps the opposition levels dropped compared to back then? Not sure, but I wouldn't say this England team is nailed on better than Rooney's necessarily imo.

I would say Kane is more of a true no 9 and has been the focal point for the squad. Rooney never looked comfortable in the England team for some reason, but those teams never played to anywhere near their potential imo.

 

[RUCK4444]

The elitists and their posts in this thread can feck off.

San Marino is a country. They deserve to have a national team and play against other teams in UEFA. If they aren't complaining about their status, why would anyone else? Take the easy win, respect the opponents, and jog on

There's nothing elitist about it. Last night was hard to watch for me as a neutral.

They have no football pyramid and they are thrown in with the likes of England for some of the best players in Europe to hammer them 10-0 in front of their own fans. Nothing respectable or beneficial about that for either team imo. They should have some type of qualification process imo.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Is this England team much better than the teams Rooney played in? I always thought that those England teams were managed awfully and you had some world class players that should have been making it to semi-finals and finals on the regular.

I mean, on paper, Rooney's England side is definitely better I would say. The likes of Cole, Rio, Terry, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Rooney, Owen, Beckham... all in their prime. Those teams were just awfully managed, also have perhaps the opposition levels dropped compared to back then? Not sure, but I wouldn't say this England team is nailed on better than Rooney's necessarily imo.

I would say Kane is more of a true no 9 and has been the focal point for the squad. Rooney never looked comfortable in the England team for some reason, but those teams never played to anywhere near their potential imo.

It is better in my opinion yes. The Rooney era XI was better but the depth now is miles better. In Rooney's era a few injuries left major holes and towards the end of Rooney's era the team had declined massively, we were calling up Jake Livermore from The Championship and he was playing!

This side is much more enjoyable to follow too.

 

[Abraxas]

I think whether they have a professional league is a separate issue. They should be using whatever money they make to improve their infrastructure, but at the same time I don't know what the demographics in San Marino are, it may be more challenging to do that than in other tiny nations. I don't see how it means they shouldn't be allowed. They're allowed because they are a nation, it's nothing to do with ability or leagues, that is clear.

The ethos of the European qualifying is that everybody gets a chance. There are only a handful of genuine whipping boys, I really don't see who it's hurting that they take part. I don't think San Marino care that they're getting smashed 10-0 at home. It might not be beneficial but it doesn't seem to hurt them either, they tried for 90 mins despite this. England aren't bothered. Fans can vote with their feet.

I really don't see who the aggrieved party is supposed to be in all this. I think some people just have to find something to moan about.

 

[SilentWitness]

How many more games are there now for Kane to score in compared to Lineker/Rooney?

 

[Champ]

I think whether they have a professional league is a separate issue. They should be using whatever money they make to improve their infrastructure, but at the same time I don't know what the demographics in San Marino are, it may be more challenging to do that than in other tiny nations. I don't see how it means they shouldn't be allowed. They're allowed because they are a nation, it's nothing to do with ability or leagues, that is clear.

The ethos of the European qualifying is that everybody gets a chance. There are only a handful of genuine whipping boys, I really don't see who it's hurting that they take part. I don't think San Marino care that they're getting smashed 10-0 at home. It might not be beneficial but it doesn't seem to hurt them either, they tried for 90 mins despite this. England aren't bothered. Fans can vote with their feet.

I really don't see who the aggrieved party is supposed to be in all this. I think some people just have to find something to moan about.

With regards to the bolded part - they would still have a chance even if they had to go into a pre mini league/tournament before they entered qualification - just like non league teams have to go through qualfication to the main draw of the FA cup for example, or lower seeded teams have to qualify for the Champions league/Europa league.


And also what chance to they have now anyhow?? Practically zero.

 

[Camara]

They are a country and member of UEFA so they have all the right to play whoever they find in the competitions.
The big nations may not care about these smaller/weaker nations but the reverse is not true at all, these big games for them are cherished regardless of the result, I'm sure of this, just like a weak team in the FA Cup playing a big team.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

How many more games are there now for Kane to score in compared to Lineker/Rooney?

There hasn't been a compelling amount more I don't think. Linekar averaged about 1 game less per year than Kane has. You can always look at GPG ratio anyway. The top 5 are

1. Vivian Woodward 1.26 gpg over 23 apps
2. Nat Lofthouse 0.91 gpg over 33 apps
3. Jimmy Greaves 0.77 gpg over 57 apps
4. Harry Kane 0.72 gpg over 67 apps
5. Gary Linekar 0.60 gpg over 80 apps

Rooney is 9th with 0.44 gpg over 120 apps

 

[miked99]

Is this England team much better than the teams Rooney played in? I always thought that those England teams were managed awfully and you had some world class players that should have been making it to semi-finals and finals on the regular.

I mean, on paper, Rooney's England side is definitely better I would say. The likes of Cole, Rio, Terry, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Rooney, Owen, Beckham... all in their prime. Those teams were just awfully managed, also have perhaps the opposition levels dropped compared to back then? Not sure, but I wouldn't say this England team is nailed on better than Rooney's necessarily imo.

I would say Kane is more of a true no 9 and has been the focal point for the squad. Rooney never looked comfortable in the England team for some reason, but those teams never played to anywhere near their potential imo.

It's far better in my opinion. This is the best group of players I can remember as an England fan. The strength in depth is on another level entirely. Remember the mass panic every time Rooney or Beckham got injured before a major tournament? There was a gigantic drop off to the next best option available.

The so-called 'golden generation' is massively overrated. Always see these players listed and spoken about in hushed tones, like no other nation had any good players and we should've strolled to victory in every tournament we took part in. Spain, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France...yeah, whatever. They didn't have good players, not like us! We had Gerrard and Lampard!

These players are thought of as great due to their exploits with their club teams. At international level a lot of them were far from that. They failed under every manager and never came close.

 

[Lay]

I want to watch a World Cup of the 32 worst nations. It’ll be a blast

 

[RUCK4444]

It's far better in my opinion. This is the best group of players I can remember as an England fan. The strength in depth is on another level entirely. Remember the mass panic every time Rooney or Beckham got injured before a major tournament? There was a gigantic drop off to the next best option available.

The so-called 'golden generation' is massively overrated. Always see these players listed and spoken about in hushed tones, like no other nation had any good players and we should've strolled to victory in every tournament we took part in. Spain, Brazil, Germany, Italy, France...yeah, whatever. They didn't have good players, not like us! We had Gerrard and Lampard!

These players are thought of as great due to their exploits with their club teams. At international level a lot of them were far from that. They failed under every manager and never came close.

Point taken however, on paper (I know, I know!) those players are better than what you have currently, man for man.

Man for man the below are better than anything England have currently with the exception of peak Kane. Surely a top manager should get the below playing as well as what we've seen with the current team under Southgate?
Cole, Rio, Terry, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Rooney, Owen, Beckham - Who do you think are better than these players in the current England squad?

 

[Jaxa]

The only use for them is to help players stat pad ,

Why do England always play these guys so much ? Is there a legit logical explanation ?

 

[SilentWitness]

I wonder what the managerial expectations are.

1 draw every 5 years (?)
No more than 100 goals conceded in a calendar year (?)

 

[Santos J]

The only use for them is to help players stat pad ,

Why do England always play these guys so much ? Is there a legit logical explanation ?

That it's how draws and seeding work? They hadn't played a competitive game against them since 2015 before this WC qualifying group.

They're hardly an anomaly, of the 10 european WC qualifying groups, 5 have a team in who've conceded over 30 goals across all their games. All groups with 9+ games played have a team that's conceded 30+ except for 1.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

The elitists and their posts in this thread can feck off.

San Marino is a country. They deserve to have a national team and play against other teams in UEFA. If they aren't complaining about their status, why would anyone else? Take the easy win, respect the opponents, and jog on

Bang on mate, take a bow.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

How many more games are there now for Kane to score in compared to Lineker/Rooney?

• Wayne Rooney: 53 goals, 120 caps.
• Bobby Charlton: 49 goals, 106 caps.
• Gary Lineker: 48 goals, 80 caps.
• Jimmy Greaves: 44 goals, 57 caps.
• Harry Kane: 44 goals, 66 caps.
• Michael Owen: 40 goals, 89 caps.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

With regards to the bolded part - they would still have a chance even if they had to go into a pre mini league/tournament before they entered qualification - just like non league teams have to go through qualfication to the main draw of the FA cup for example, or lower seeded teams have to qualify for the Champions league/Europa league.


And also what chance to they have now anyhow?? Practically zero.

National football and club football is very different, no matter how small the nation they should be allowed the same chance as anyone.

 

[SilentWitness]

There hasn't been a compelling amount more I don't think. Linekar averaged about 1 game less per year than Kane has. You can always look at GPG ratio anyway. The top 5 are

1. Vivian Woodward 1.26 gpg over 23 apps
2. Nat Lofthouse 0.91 gpg over 33 apps
3. Jimmy Greaves 0.77 gpg over 57 apps
4. Harry Kane 0.72 gpg over 67 apps
5. Gary Linekar 0.60 gpg over 80 apps

Rooney is 9th with 0.44 gpg over 120 apps

• Wayne Rooney: 53 goals, 120 caps.
• Bobby Charlton: 49 goals, 106 caps.
• Gary Lineker: 48 goals, 80 caps.
• Jimmy Greaves: 44 goals, 57 caps.
• Harry Kane: 44 goals, 66 caps.
• Michael Owen: 40 goals, 89 caps.

surprised he’s had so few games but looked at the teams he’s played and a large majority are naff.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I want to watch a World Cup of the 32 worst nations. It’ll be a blast

They should genuinely do something like that...

Cuba 179
Chad 180
Moldova 181
Macau 182
Dominica 183
Mongolia 184
Laos 185
Bhutan 186
Bangladesh 187
Djibouti 188
Brunei Darussalam 189
Liechtenstein 190
São Tomé and Príncipe 191
American Samoa 192
Samoa 193
Timor-Leste 194
Somalia 195
Cayman Islands 196
Pakistan 197
Gibraltar 198
Seychelles 199
Tonga 200
Aruba 201
Bahamas 202
Eritrea 203
Sri Lanka 204
Turks and Caicos Islands 205
Guam 206
US Virgin Islands 207
British Virgin Islands 208
Anguilla 209
San Marino 210

My money's on Macau

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

surprised he’s had so few games but looked at the teams he’s played and a large majority are naff.

I agree but to be fair to him he can only play who is in front of him.

 

[Maluco]

In an era where footballers are playing more games than ever, this needs to be looked at. It’s is a pointless 180 minutes on players legs to have them in the groups.

Have a two group mini pre-qualifiers over the summer for the very smallest nations, with their two winners getting into the qualifying groups.

Be sensible and cut the number of games where possible.

Mini qualifying groups might give these teams some confidence and the chance to try a few things too.

 

[dbs235]

The hard work of Rooney, Charlton and Linekar all for nothing.
Harry Kane about to break their records against a team like San Marino is just utter garbage.
We play such shocking teams, the country gets hyped up because we’ve won every single game but when it comes to the big tournaments we come unstuck because we’re not used to playing good opposition.

Much like PSG in their farmers league. All season they play against dross and then come unstuck in the latter stages of the CL.

Rooney's got 4 goals against San Marino himself.

 

[Gringo]

I want to watch a World Cup of the 32 worst nations. It’ll be a blast

I'd love that. But probably don't call it "The worst nations cup"

Set a limit say I dunno, population of 100,000 and less only allowed to enter.

 

[RUCK4444]

In an era where footballers are playing more games than ever, this needs to be looked at. It’s is a pointless 180 minutes on players legs to have them in the groups.

Have a two group mini pre-qualifiers over the summer for the very smallest nations, with their two winners getting into the qualifying groups.

Be sensible and cut the number of games where possible.

Mini qualifying groups might give these teams some confidence and the chance to try a few things too.

Exactly.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Rooney's got 4 goals against San Marino himself.

Rooney has 5 goals in 4 games against them and Kane 5 goals in 2 games.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

In an era where footballers are playing more games than ever, this needs to be looked at. It’s is a pointless 180 minutes on players legs to have them in the groups.

Have a two group mini pre-qualifiers over the summer for the very smallest nations, with their two winners getting into the qualifying groups.

Be sensible and cut the number of games where possible.

Mini qualifying groups might give these teams some confidence and the chance to try a few things too.

Id worry more about players welfare being made to play football matches in fecking Qatar, in the middle of a season, than I would a qualifier against San Marino.

 

[Red Royal]

I want to watch a World Cup of the 32 worst nations. It’ll be a blast

This actually is a great idea and could help those nations. Top 2 get into WC proper and next 6 or 8 or whatever works get into qualifiers.

 

[Cheimoon]

You have to admire any footballer who plays for them. To know you'll never win must be rather soul-destroying after the first 100 times.

That's the fun of the Nations Cup, countries play at roughly their own level, and all these mini-states also get to win sometimes.

Or at least, to me that sounds like more fun and would make sense for other qualifiers as well. (Like in ice hockey: there are international leagues, and only countries from the A league get to go to the annual world cup. There is also relegation/promotion, of course.)

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

I wonder how competitive San Marino would be against CONIFA members like North Cyprus, Panjab or Yorkshire.

As for how they feel getting spanked every time, I imagine it can't do any harm for the local economy to get the Lads On Tour arriving to a country they would otherwise never visit for a weekend where they and their euros are guaranteed to be in high spirits.

 

[MrMarcello]

FIFA should create a minnow world cup for these small nations using amateurs and semi-pros. Let them play for something versus getting embarrassed by top tier nations with limitless funding and player depth.

 

[Maluco]

Id worry more about players welfare being made to play football matches in fecking Qatar, in the middle of a season, than I would a qualifier against San Marino.

Yeah, obviously that’s worse, but this is something practical and easy that would cut down games every single year. It makes sense.

 

[One Night Only]

I always expected San Marino to be some small seaside country landlocked and a bunch of hills. Learn something new every day. Even their flag suggests water to me

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

National football and club football is very different, no matter how small the nation they should be allowed the same chance as anyone.

I do agree, but UEFA teams do get a better crack of the whip than in other confederations. Africa, Asia and North/Central America all have preliminary rounds before the higher ranked teams enter, so a fair amount of the low ranked sides are out before they get the chance to be hammered by double digits.

UEFA is the largest confederation in the world, so it makes more sense to have one than to not, especially as the other confederations that don't have a preliminary round - South America and Oceania - only have a dozen teams entering.

 

[FreakyJim]

From what I've gathered, reading their wiki page for 10 sec, they've been allowed to remain independent simply because everyone thought it'd be funny.

 

[OleBoiii]

A country that don't even have a professional footballing pyramid....

We stopped building pyramids a long tima ago, pal! The Gods Of Football are clearly happy with the ones in Egypt.