SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Camilo]

You've been calling it fear mongering from the start to be fair. Over in a month..just a flu.

Well lets be honest, it is fear mongering.

 

[sullydnl]

Would be funny if we weren't so tragic.

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[Camilo]

I’d argue that continuing with restrictions is understandably an unpopular move and showing strong leadership if anything.

I’d kill for Sturgeon as the PM.

Kill for a nationalist arsehole? Think we've already got one. Sturgeon just hangs off the back of the UK economy making easy choices. No money moving in Scotland? Don't worry, the economy is held up by London. But freedom. She's a tit.

 

[Balljy]

Well lets be honest, it is fear mongering.

450,000 deaths even though virtually the entire world weren't allowed outside their homes for 3 months and is still heavily restricted. Yep, nothing to see here....

 

[JPRouve]

450,000 deaths even though virtually the entire world weren't allowed outside their homes for 3 months and is still heavily restricted. Yep, nothing to see here....

It's just a flu, granted that it took EPO and HGH but still.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Well lets be honest, it is fear mongering.

I’m sorry?

 

[Tibs]

You think Hancock has a thing for Dido Harding?

 

[Camilo]

450,000 deaths even though virtually the entire world weren't allowed outside their homes for 3 months and is still heavily restricted. Yep, nothing to see here....

1.5% increase in worldwide deaths. I'd call it fear mongering..

 

[Pogue Mahone]

1.5% increase in worldwide deaths. I'd call it fear mongering..

Maths isn’t your strongest subject then.

 

[Dancfc]

It's just a flu, granted that it took EPO and HGH but still.

It's not a Flu, however we're definitely getting a second wave because that's what happened with Spanish Flu.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not a Flu, however we're definitely getting a second wave because that's what happened with Spanish Flu.

Almost as though they’re both viral respiratory pathogens, transmitted in a similar manner, one of which kills a higher % of people it infects than the other. Crazy, right?

 

[Camilo]

Maths isn’t your strongest subject then.

450,000 deaths from 27 million so far this year.

 

[Tibs]

1.5% increase in worldwide deaths. I'd call it fear mongering..

Do you accept that had most of Europe, America, Canada, Far East, South Asia and many others, not implemented lockdowns to limit the spread of the virus, that the death toll would have been much higher? As a result, you may not have thought it was fear mongering?

 

[JPRouve]

1.5% increase in worldwide deaths. I'd call it fear mongering..

You think that 1.5% isn't a big figure? Especially when we limited it by virtually hibernate for three months?

 

[Dan_F]

1.5% increase in worldwide deaths. I'd call it fear mongering..

Wait. This opinion is actually a thing still?

How many deaths do you think there would have been if we didn’t lockdown every country?

 

[africanspur]

450,000 deaths from 27 million so far this year.

You might have a point (I would still say not) if most countries around the world were actually good at calculating how many deaths its caused.

Not to mention the way its overloaded many healthcare systems.

I do agree that some people have a slightly morbid fascination with exaggerating every piece of news about it but I don't really see what the fear mongering is.

 

[Wibble]

And people are comparing countries with totally different contexts. The US and the UK are global hubs, the amount of initial contacts with the virus isn't comparable to Aus/NZ who are by nature relatively insulated. I mentioned it several times but people just have to look at how the virus moved within borders, it doesn't magically appears and easily spread in remote areas. At some point people and the experts that are on social medias need to think in a more intelligent way, there is no point comparing the incomparable.

That the US and UK are gloval hubs makes their slow, incomplete and bumbling responses even more appauling.

 

[Wibble]

It's just a flu, granted that it took EPO and HGH but still.

It isn't a flu at all. What are you talking about?

 

[Anustart89]

It isn't a flu at all. What are you talking about?

Obviously sarcasm?

 

[JPRouve]

That the US and UK are gloval hubs makes their slow, incomplete and bumbling responses even more appauling.

I have no argument against that, my point is just that there isn't a really a moment where the UK should be compared to AU and NZ because they didn't start from the same position. You could compare it with France though and I really don't understand what happened with the UK, I don't understand why their excess death is that high. In France I know that some local politicians miserably failed in particular in the north half of the country, they failed to take the correct decisions and they failed to provide equipments that health professionals need whether there is a pandemic or not.

 

[JPRouve]

It isn't a flu at all. What are you talking about?

I was being sarcastic with Camilo being somehow convinced that all of this was just scaremongering.

 

[Wibble]

Well lets be honest, it is fear mongering.

Half a million dead alreafy with actual deaths worldwide likely to be double that despite a global lockdown. We can also probably expect thecdeath toll to double by the end of the year.

So yes. Nothing to see here.

 

[Wibble]

I have no argument against that, my point is just that there isn't a really a moment where the UK should be compared to AU and NZ because they didn't start from the same position. You could compare it with France though and I really don't understand what happened with the UK, I don't understand why their excess death is that high. In France I know that some local politicians miserably failed in particular in the north half of the country, they failed to take the correct decisions and they failed to provide equipments that health professionals need whether there is a pandemic or not.

Australia had a large number of daily flights from Hubei and China and Italy. 45 million international movements per year. Not the same but more than enough to put Australia in a virtually unconttollable situstion. And this from a government who coildn't normally organise a piss up in a brewery.

The UK and US are where they are mainly due to the almost criminal incompetence of their government's responses. They need to be held to account forvthe huge number of deaths thry have caused not given excuses.

 

[F-Red]

and I really don't understand what happened with the UK, I don't understand why their excess death is that high.

Seriously? It's not difficult to see how it escalated, the policy around the decision to discharge hospital patients to care homes to free up 15,000 beds and then giving guidance to care homes telling them that there's no need to test those patients (mainly because they hadn't got testing capacity addressed at all) caused around a good 35% of the total deaths in the UK.

 

[JPRouve]

Seriously? It's not difficult to see how it escalated, the policy around the decision to discharge hospital patients to care homes to free up 15,000 beds and then giving guidance to care homes telling them that there's no need to test those patients (mainly because they hadn't got testing capacity addressed at all) caused around a good 35% of the total deaths in the UK.

Well, I don't have all the details about the UK, so yes seriously. For example, I didn't knew about the discharging policy.

 

[Wibble]

Seriously? It's not difficult to see how it escalated, the policy around the decision to discharge hospital patients to care homes to free up 15,000 beds and then giving guidance to care homes telling them that there's no need to test those patients (mainly because they hadn't got testing capacity addressed at all) caused around a good 35% of the total deaths in the UK.

Slow/not very severe lockdown. Borders never closed, no quarantine. A defacto herd immunity strategy continued by utter incompetence.

 

[hobbers]

I’d argue that continuing with restrictions is understandably an unpopular move and showing strong leadership if anything.

I’d kill for Sturgeon as the PM.

The SNP have made all the same mistakes the Tories made handling Covid but arguably worse. Particular with regards to sending elderly people back to carehomes without testing, and testing capacity in general.

Think the early blunders are largely why she's being so cautious now. She's probably pacing it right, although we won't see the benefit obviously because when England has a second peak Scotland will be dragged along regardless.

 

[JPRouve]

Slow/not very severe lockdown. Borders never closed, no quarantine. A defacto herd immunity strategy continued by utter incompetence.

I don't get how that is possible, what makes the UK that different from other countries who also have questionable politicians who still managed to mitigate their early mistakes? Surely the government was able to read reports about excess deaths and realized that some actions were needed particularly when they denied the herd immunity strategy but then again I shouldn't be surprised it is reminiscent of Brexit negotiations. Do you think that british politicians completely ignore experts, that would explain some of the things we have seen lately?

 

[Wibble]

Obviously sarcasm?

I'm finding it hard to tell these days with people saying things like "it is scaremongering"

 

[Wibble]

I don't get how that is possible, what makes the UK that different from other countries who also have questionable politicians who still managed to mitigate their early mistakes? Surely the government was able to read reports about excess deaths and realized that some actions were needed particularly when they denied the herd immunity strategy but then again I shouldn't be surprised it is reminiscent of Brexit negotiations. Do you think that british politicians completely ignore experts, that would explain some of the things we have seen lately?

I have no idea really. Either utter incompetence or they are just pretending they aren't going for herd immunity (which is just immoral incompetence).

On a similar note a story about Sweden almost made me laugh/cry. Sweden, despite over 5000 deaths, is apparently nowhere near gaining herd immunity (surprising I know).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ar-from-herd-immunity-despite-softer-lockdown

This was the quote that got me.

However, in an interview with Swedish Radio, Anders Tegnell, Sweden's chief epidemiologist, admitted that immunity rates were low and that “it’s difficult to explain why this is so.”

I'm not an epidemiologist but I think I might just have an explanation.

 

[gormless]

I don't get how that is possible, what makes the UK that different from other countries who also have questionable politicians who still managed to mitigate their early mistakes? Surely the government was able to read reports about excess deaths and realized that some actions were needed particularly when they denied the herd immunity strategy but then again I shouldn't be surprised it is reminiscent of Brexit negotiations. Do you think that british politicians completely ignore experts, that would explain some of the things we have seen lately?

“People in this country have had enough of experts,” - Michael Gove -2016

 

[SteveJ]

“People in this country have had enough of experts,” - Michael Gove -2016

There's a lot to analyse in Gove's remark but, generally, who the hell does he think has encouraged this longstanding anti-intellectual feeling in the British people? His own bloody Party and their fellow travellers, that's who.

 

[redshaw]

I have no argument against that, my point is just that there isn't a really a moment where the UK should be compared to AU and NZ because they didn't start from the same position. You could compare it with France though and I really don't understand what happened with the UK, I don't understand why their excess death is that high. In France I know that some local politicians miserably failed in particular in the north half of the country, they failed to take the correct decisions and they failed to provide equipments that health professionals need whether there is a pandemic or not.

I did read some stats a few years ago how UK has double the amount of travelers of France, something like 1.4 million vs 3.8 million but perhaps someone can confirm that. It's been said recently that most of the cases brought to the UK were people coming from Italy Spain and France.

We could also look at Spain with 43k excess deaths with 48 million population although some people only single out UK and US, there's Belgium as well as Spain. UK had 7-10 extra days on Spain, it isn't a lot and on the 14th of March UK said herd immunity wasn't part of the plan and it's just a by product, each country lockdown around 200-300 deaths.

Maybe looking at New York State with 31k deaths 19 mill pop with ~1600 deaths per million, same with New Jersey, a lot of travel to and from the east coast and Europe, rest of US and California is completely different. Parts of Western Europe and the tip of the East coast of the US is where the early action was. There's more going on with all these international links, built up areas and how it started in Italy than railroading UK and US governments.

 

[sglowrider]

Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections

• One of the major findings of this paper is that asymptomatic patients "shed virus" longer—a median of 19 days—than symptomatic patients.
• Over half of the patients who were classified as asymptomatic based on the lack of any experienced symptoms showed abnormalities based on lung CT scans, indicating possible damage even in these patients.

 

[sammsky1]

Would be funny if we weren't so tragic.

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[Berbasbullet]

1.5% increase in worldwide deaths. I'd call it fear mongering..

We shouldn’t wear seat belts that’s fear mongering, I’ve never died in a car crash.

What on Earth are you talking about? Try saying this to people who have lost family.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Clinical and immunological assessment of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections

• One of the major findings of this paper is that asymptomatic patients "shed virus" longer—a median of 19 days—than symptomatic patients.
• Over half of the patients who were classified as asymptomatic based on the lack of any experienced symptoms showed abnormalities based on lung CT scans, indicating possible damage even in these patients.

@massi83

This was what I mentioned a while back re serology surveys missing loads of people who have been infected. 40% of asymptomatic patients became seronegative during the convalescent phase (13.9% of symptomatic patients)

The Abbott test instruction manual admits its only reliable if done within 14 days of infection.

 

[RK]

It's extremely frustrating how the government can lie so poorly about the contact tracing app and the development process. Mainly because they'll get away with it for the most part despite the utter incompetence of their decision-making.

 

[JPRouve]

@massi83

This was what I mentioned a while back re serology surveys missing loads of people who have been infected. 40% of asymptomatic patients became seronegative during the convalescent phase (13.9% of symptomatic patients)

The Abbott test instruction manual admits its only reliable if done within 14 days of infection.

I have heard that when we tested it in France in April but I'm not sure about what it implicates. Does that mean that the chances of mid to long term immunity are limited or is that irrelevant?

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

We are winning. Slowly but surely. Most people are sticking to the rules and doing what they need to do in order to protect the ones they love.

We’re not winning anything mate. Most people are flouting rules. Most don’t even know what they are anymore.