SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

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The point being made was that nobody is entirely safe, which however you dress it up remains true.
It wasn’t the bloody point at all.

If that was her point, then simply say, “anyone can be at danger of getting seriously ill from this”, not dismissing the “not belonging to a risk group” which is scientific fact with a wealth of statistics into the hundreds of millions to back this up.
 

FootballHQ

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Bit sad really if 85-90% vaccinated is nowhere near enough to get some sembalance of January 2020 back into day to day life in near future.

There will always be people not wanting the vaccine but I'd prefer to look at the 9/10 of population who have and continue to step forward for easy form of national service and say that's a big positive as government were looking at 75-80% take up back in early December from all the opinion polls conducted at the time.

Just looked at Israel which was leading the way with vaccine take up a few months ago....63.5% had their first does as of yesterday. Chile is 61.9% first dose. Germany not yet at 50% and Spain just over at 51%. France with mandatory vaccination in operation for many sectors is at 41%.

U.K for all its faults is doing o.k. Of course roll out wasn't as quick and I guess supply issues aswell but I'd be amazed if any sizeable country in the world gets over 95% vaccination take up in next 6 months.

I assume things wouldn't be pretty if vaccine hadn't been developed until say October 2021 as was predicted when this first hit europe, 500k dead? Lockdown for a full year? So things could be much worse I guess but 90% compliance is still incredibly high number of millions to play with compared to 12 months ago.
 

Rado_N

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It wasn’t the bloody point at all.

If that was her point, then simply say, “anyone can be at danger of getting seriously ill from this”, not dismissing the “not belonging to a risk group” which is scientific fact with a wealth of statistics into the hundreds of millions to back this up.
I can’t be arsed getting into a prolonged “yes it was” vs “no it wasn’t”, the point being made was perfectly clear to me.
 

FootballHQ

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Still probably quite soon to see impact on hospitalisation and deaths. Fingers crossed though there isn’t a significant spike.
The lawless euros final will probably not help for figures over next two weeks but England-Germany was over 3 weeks ago now wasn't it? 40k + crowd in for that one and with the win I'm sure a lack of socially distanced celebrations after.
 
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I can’t be arsed getting into a prolonged “yes it was” vs “no it wasn’t”, the point being made was perfectly clear to me.
There’s no “getting into”, she said something extremely incorrect, I corrected her. No big deal, we all spout some garbage on these forums.
You just decided she meant something else, fair play.
 

Rado_N

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There’s no “getting into”, she said something extremely incorrect, I corrected her. No big deal, we all spout some garbage on these forums.
You just decided she meant something else, fair play.
Uh-huh

I didn't say that the most at-risk are not the most at risk. I said in reponse to One Night Only that there are no "safe groups", which has been demonstrated by young, healthy people becoming seriously-ill and dying. It's not just ancients with lots of health conditions or super-obese diabetics.
 
Read before asking if vaccines lower virus spread

Pogue Mahone

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I know someone who has a serious side effect to the vaccine, 34 year old, healthy lad. Transverse myelitis or something I think it was called. I can clearly see why people are still iffy with getting it in all honesty. I know there is a risk with every vaccine anyway but obviously the bad side effects of this get reported a lot more widely these days.

Does it really lower transmission? That's the part I don't get at all. If it did, I don't understand why the new cases are as high as they are with so many vaccinated? How much does it lower transmission?
Yes. It lowers transmission. Jesus. Why are so many people asking a question with such an obvious fecking answer?! Is this Facebook bollox doing the rounds or something?

We can be absolutely certain that vaccines lower transmission. We know this because we can be absolutely certain that vaccines reduce your chance of catching covid. By a large %. And the best possible way to avoid transmission is by not catching the virus.

Cases are high now because not everyone is vaccinated and all of the restrictions on behaviour that helped prevent transmission have been removed. If that had happened without vaccines, then cases would be many many times higher.

Does this need to be threadmarked? It’s baffling how many times the same question is being asked, when the answer has already been proven beyond any reasonable doubt.
 
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fergies coat

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I think those numbers do speak for themselves, but isn't that because those most vulnerable have been vaccinated already? They'll still catch it but less likely to be hospitalised.

Whereas someone who is not in a danger group could catch it and not end up in hospital anyway even without the vaccine? With case numbers as they are with the amount being vaccinated, it doesn't really look to be doing much to stop the spread as they put it.

That's what I'm not understanding personally. The jabs are doing the grand some of feck all for a lot of people apart from making them bad for a couple of days, then letting them get the virus anyway? They could have got the virus without the jab, and not been ill after their jabs thus they've actually made themselves bad for an extra 2 days.

I know it's only a jab, but a lot of people who have had it seem right up their own arses, it's the new "I'm better than you look at me". I can fully understand why people want it, and why others don't. There are some rough stories, the type of "it'll never happen to me" but it could.

Well done to those who have had the jab.

End of the day it's a personal choice at the moment and I'm fine with people either way.
Carful mate your not allowed to have a different opinion in this thread.
 

Carolina Red

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Yes. It lowers transmission. Jesus. Why are so many people asking a question with such an obvious fecking answer?! Is this Facebook bollox doing the rounds or something?

We can be absolutely certain that vaccines lower transmission. We know this because we can be absolutely certain that viruses reduce your chance of catching covid. By a large %. And the best possible way to avoid transmission is by not catching the virus.

Cases are high now because not everyone is vaccinated and all of the restrictions on behaviour that helped prevent transmission have been removed. If that had happened without vaccines, then cases would be many many times higher.

Does this need to be threadmarked? It’s baffling how many times the same question is being asked, when the answer has already been proven beyond any reasonable doubt.
Threadmarked
 

Pogue Mahone

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Threadmarked
I don’t get why the concept seems to be so difficult to grasp? That’s at least two people today making the same point. Basically the same thing as arguing that United shouldn’t bother picking a goalkeeper for their starting XI because they’ve read somewhere that goalkeepers sometimes concede goals.
 

Carolina Red

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I don’t get why the concept seems to be so difficult to grasp? That’s at least two people today making the same point. Basically the same thing as arguing that United shouldn’t bother picking a goalkeeper for their starting XI because they’ve watched a few games where goalkeepers let in goals.
I’m a firm believer that if by this point you’re still making the argument that the aforementioned are making and “asking innocent questions” then you’ve already made your mind up and are making statements in question form to hide that fact.
 

dumbo

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People need to start fecking off with the arguing with the vaccine. The data is out there and has been presented fairly widely and clearly. That there is an obvious benefit for the vast majority to getting vaccinated is supported by the available evidence.

All the "but this happened to my friends cousin" and "difference of opinion" shit is fecking rubbish.

If you won't get the vaccine then so be it but expecting others to indulge your ill informed umming and arring gibberish is crap.
 

RedSky

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Tragic, right? Putting facts before opinions. Straight up hell on earth right there.
What do these 'experts' know anyway? They're just medical professionals after all, surely the average joe knows better after reading a few mindless facebook articles. :lol:

It must be so frustrating being a Doctor or NHS worker at the moment.
 

Wibble

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I am serious. If I want to risk my own health then what problem is it to anyone else?
Because you aren't only endangering yourself. You are seriously endangering those who can't be vaccinated and those who don't have a good immune response to it. You are also escalating the chance of a new variant arising as well as risking huge medical and economic costs. Otherwise most wouldn't care if individuals don't vaccinate and have a shot at a Darwin Award.
 

mav_9me

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I am serious. If I want to risk my own health then what problem is it to anyone else?
If you risk your own health, then if you get sick from COVID will you go to a doctor/hospital? Now imagine if huge numbers thought the same and end up sick and go to the hospital, what a burden that would be on healthcare workers, already reeling for the last year or so.
 

rpitroda

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I am serious. If I want to risk my own health then what problem is it to anyone else?
This is such a stupid question / opinion.

If you get Covid, and got sick, and ended up in hospital, there are consequences - not just to you.

There is a cost to the taxpayer for the care you would need to receive.

There is a cost to the individuals who might not get their non-Covid treatment they need because the NHS is too busy.

There is the risk of loss of life due to mental health because of the stress we are putting on our doctors and nurses.

There is the greater risk that you might pass it on to someone else, who then might have the same impact.

There is an increased risk of new variants.

There is a risk that you might kill someone, if you pass it on to someone who couldn’t take the vaccine for medical reasons and were vulnerable to Covid.

This probably doesn’t even capture a fraction of the consequences of you not seeing the bigger picture, which is only heightened when there is a collective of people who think the same way.
 

Penna

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@Rado_N, thank you. I'm not sure why my comment's being deliberately misconstrued. No-one can say "I'm in a safe group, I'll never get really sick with Covid." Look at what's happened in India recently as a case in point.
 

Wibble

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Her point was that is no such thing as “not being in a danger group” and well, of course there is. Every single stat from every single country informs us of that, there are huge danger groups, and those not in those groups.
The rather obvious point is that the term "danger group" implied that everyone isn't in danger from covid - some are just in more danger than others and Delta seems to be spread far more in children than the other variants. As with the death of this 5 year old https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...oy-dies-covid-cases-surge-nationwide-n1274671
 
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The rather obvious point is that the term "danger group" implied that everyone isn't in danger from covid -
Everyone isn’t, that’s the point.

I for example know at least 50 people who have had it and none of them in a risk group, not one was seriously ill. I myself had it and have had worse colds.

I also know a bunch of people in risk groups that had it and ended up extremely ill.

Yes there are anomalies in the data (as with all viruses and illnesses) but let’s not make out they’re not still extremely rare in comparison. Over here a healthy person under 30 has about a 1 in 500,000 chance of dying from Covid. That’s if we can believe the total number of cases are correct and none have been missed, so likely it’s 1 in 1 million.
Dismissing how very rare it still is to get seriously ill from Covid and extremely rare to die for certain groups doesn’t help the discussion and certainly feels like fear mongering. It seems to be coming a more regular occurrence as people try to convince others they need to take the vaccine but I’m uncertain it helps, people can read stats and don’t need or appreciate being bullshitted, better to explain instead why exactly vaccination is important for the society as a whole.

If the point is, anyone of us can contract something at any point in our lives and die, well yeah obviously but why’s that even a point?
 
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Wibble

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Everyone isn’t, that’s the point.

I for example know at least 50 people who have had it and none of them in a risk group, not one was seriously ill. I myself had it and have had worse colds.

I also know a bunch of people in risk groups that had it and ended up extremely ill.

Yes there are anomalies in the data (as with all viruses and illnesses) but let’s not make out they’re not still extremely rare in comparison. Over here a healthy person under 30 has about a 1 in 500,000 chance of dying from Covid. That’s if we can believe the total number of cases are correct and none have been missed, so likely it’s 1 in 1 million.
Dismissing how very rare it still is to get seriously ill from Covid and extremely rare to die for certain groups doesn’t help the discussion and certainly feels like fear mongering. It seems to be coming a more regular occurrence as people try to convince others they need to take the vaccine but I’m uncertain it helps, people can read stats and don’t need or appreciate being bullshitted, better to explain instead why exactly vaccination is important for the society as a whole.

If the point is, anyone of us can contract something at any point in our lives and die, well yeah obviously but why’s that even a point?
People of all age groups are getting sick and dieing. Far more are suffering ongoing and long term harm from covid. Just because you weren't killed doesn't make covid harmless. Such talk simply encourages vaccine reluctance when we should be aiming for as close to 100% vaccination rates as possible to try to get the world back to normal ASAP.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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People need to start fecking off with the arguing with the vaccine. The data is out there and has been presented fairly widely and clearly. That there is an obvious benefit for the vast majority to getting vaccinated is supported by the available evidence.

All the "but this happened to my friends cousin" and "difference of opinion" shit is fecking rubbish.

If you won't get the vaccine then so be it but expecting others to indulge your ill informed umming and arring gibberish is crap.
I really hate the way difference of opinion is used as some kind of catch all for stupid shit. (not just here, but everywhere). Yes you are entitled to your opinion, just dont expect it to be taken seriously
 

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Get the impression that when people throw out the stats on deaths/illnesses that the small fact that we have done everything possible to reduce the spread is left out. Left completely uncontrolled this illness could have torn through people.

And then there's the line of thinking like, "ah sure you might only lose your sense of smell and taste" which...is actually still a pretty big deal I feel. Death and severe illness aren't the only things we're trying to stop.
 

Leroy The Red

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I think those numbers do speak for themselves, but isn't that because those most vulnerable have been vaccinated already? They'll still catch it but less likely to be hospitalised.

Whereas someone who is not in a danger group could catch it and not end up in hospital anyway even without the vaccine? With case numbers as they are with the amount being vaccinated, it doesn't really look to be doing much to stop the spread as they put it.

That's what I'm not understanding personally. The jabs are doing the grand some of feck all for a lot of people apart from making them bad for a couple of days, then letting them get the virus anyway? They could have got the virus without the jab, and not been ill after their jabs thus they've actually made themselves bad for an extra 2 days.

I know it's only a jab, but a lot of people who have had it seem right up their own arses, it's the new "I'm better than you look at me". I can fully understand why people want it, and why others don't. There are some rough stories, the type of "it'll never happen to me" but it could.

Well done to those who have had the jab.

End of the day it's a personal choice at the moment and I'm fine with people either way.
At this point, with all the evidence and with how vaccines work in general. With all the people in the U.K. who already have previous vaccines. The people getting vaccinated are definitely better than the people who are not.

Those going unvaccinated in my experience have usually gone with the “not knowing long term effects”…line. Completely ignoring the long term effects bad covid can potentially have.
But that’s fine whatever, where all these people fall on their fecking arse is with everything else in their lifestyle.
Every single person I know who’s stated the “long term effects” either smokes weed on a regular basis, drinks heavily, or has a poor diet. Seemingly these things do not have physical and mental ‘long term effects’ on them.
It’s this hypocrisy I can’t personally stand. Then throw in your dangerous folks who refuse vaccination and also refuse to follow isolation rules and you’re left with a big pile of steaming shit that just slows this whole recovery process down.

With that in mind to me it’s pretty obvious getting a vaccine makes you better than people who don’t.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Get the impression that when people throw out the stats on deaths/illnesses that the small fact that we have done everything possible to reduce the spread is left out. Left completely uncontrolled this illness could have torn through people.

And then there's the line of thinking like, "ah sure you might only lose your sense of smell and taste" which...is actually still a pretty big deal I feel. Death and severe illness aren't the only things we're trying to stop.
Two very good points.

The smell/taste thing is more than enough to convince me to get vaccinated. I’m (relatively) young and (relatively) healthy so the odds are in my favour of surviving covid. I’ve a good friend who got infected in April 2020. He had a very mild illness but his sense of smell is still messed up. For anyone who enjoys their food that’s a shitty state of affairs. Absolute no-brainer to take a vaccine if it makes that outcome less likely.
 

golden_blunder

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Two very good points.

The smell/taste thing is more than enough to convince me to get vaccinated. I’m (relatively) young and (relatively) healthy so the odds are in my favour of surviving covid. I’ve a good friend who got infected in April 2020. He had a very mild illness but his sense of smell is still messed up. For anyone who enjoys their food that’s a shitty state of affairs. Absolute no-brainer to take a vaccine if it makes that outcome less likely.
I’d go mad if I lost sense of smell or taste. Food is my only vice nowadays.
 

Pexbo

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Two very good points.

The smell/taste thing is more than enough to convince me to get vaccinated. I’m (relatively) young and (relatively) healthy so the odds are in my favour of surviving covid. I’ve a good friend who got infected in April 2020. He had a very mild illness but his sense of smell is still messed up. For anyone who enjoys their food that’s a shitty state of affairs. Absolute no-brainer to take a vaccine if it makes that outcome less likely.
Pretty terrifying for top chefs. Worse than losing an arm or a leg.
 

Pexbo

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The friend of mine I mentioned is an actor who works as a sous chef when acting work dries up. Closure of theatres followed by messed up smell/taste has been such a kick in the balls for him.
Is he famous?
 

Wibble

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The next old person or person who can't he vaccinated, due to being young or having a medical condition, who suffers covid related harm after you decide not to get vaccinated could be on you. You could have been infected, passed it on and not even known. Still on you.

I wonder how many free riders happily took financial assistance from society but won't do their bit for society even if they don't want to vaccinate themselves for whatever reason?
 

Pexbo

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No. Although you may have seen him on the telly if you’ve paid attention to my recommendations on the Entertainment forum over the years.
I haven’t taken the slightest bit of notice :)