Hate to be that guy but, you forgot to include league titles.
Scholes vs Lampard vs Gerrard
- Thread starter CapeTownRed
- Start date
Funny how the most important stat of all is conveniently left off that list...
What only three of you mentioned it so far.
I was actually responding to the poster who referred to poty awards etc. Personal awards not titles but fair enough.
I think 'player X is better than player Y' is something only fans really care about, like a dick measuring contest.
Couldn't care less what other fans think to be fair, we know how good and how important Scholes was, and so do his fellow professionals.
Why would non fans be interested in a Football discussion.
I think he meant the players/managers themselves don't really care who's better etc.
Many players/managers are often fans themselves. And they are the ones who often vote on the awards that we talk about so they do have to make this type of decisions.
The only thing Frank has over the others is his durability. There was a period he missed only 4 PL games in 5 full seasons. More minutes on the pitch translated to more goals/assists. If you add the 100 career penalty kicks to this statistic - you can see why his record look pretty excellent.
Scholes is the best among the trio with Gerrard coming a distant 3rd. It's pointless putting Scholes in the comparison. He's too good, criminally underrated and that is because he's not a media whore like the other two.
Yeah, I should have been clearer and said fans who aren't professional players/managers. They vote but I doubt they even have the time to watch enough games to judge the players who are candidates. There's also obvious politics involved, especially in a public vote where players often vote for their teammates.
I personally prefer players like Scholes, Pirlo, Xavi, Iniesta, Valderrama, Riquelme and Laudrup over Gerrard/Lampard kind of players. That doesn't necessarily mean they were better, but I prefer them.
I can't honestly see an argument here.
I think it's often people who have played football that can see how good he (scholes)was. When you watch football the camera stays with the ball. And the replays more often than not starts near the box. So the shooter or the guy who made that run in to the box gets the limelight.
Even if i dint read those quotes from legends of this era praising scholes, having watched him play is enough to consider him the best midfielder of the three. I would even consider him as good as or better than Xavi, Pirlo etc in that aspect.
Goals are very important in football, they decide matches, so are assists. In that sense impact wise maybe the other two had a case. If the question was who impacted their respective teams more, both Gerrard and Lampard are ahead of scholes. But as midfielders no chance.
I think it's often people who have played football that can see how good he (scholes)was. When you watch football the camera stays with the ball. And the replays more often than not starts near the box. So the shooter or the guy who made that run in to the box gets the limelight.
Even if i dint read those quotes from legends of this era praising scholes, having watched him play is enough to consider him the best midfielder of the three. I would even consider him as good as or better than Xavi, Pirlo etc in that aspect.
Goals are very important in football, they decide matches, so are assists. In that sense impact wise maybe the other two had a case. If the question was who impacted their respective teams more, both Gerrard and Lampard are ahead of scholes. But as midfielders no chance.
It's kind of funny how Scholes has been elevated to demigod status in the latter stages of his career into retirement while he was behind Keane, Becks & Giggs in terms of recognition & importance for most of his prime.
Nope, he was better than them cause he was better than them. That was just a side note. You want to know why he was better than him for football reasons? Well, he was better than Keane cause he had better feet than him. Better able to handle the ball in tight spaces. Regardless of the situation he was in his defence would always knock the ball into him and he turn and fact the opposition midifleders. if they got tight he'd simply manipulate the ball and then play the forward pass into the forwards. Sometimes he'd drive through midfield with pace and power. On top of that from a defensive standpoint he was fantastic and could match Keane any day in that regard. If Keane was in a tight spot he'd simply pass the ball back. Scholes was just poor defensively from the offset and hardly improved as the years went by.So he gets to be higher in the list because he played for a worse team? Despite not being a better player than those you have ranked below him? Wow! Logic 101 mate
I see where you're coming from but he was a special player (although his tackling was a little shite sometimes). All three where top olayers. Wish they had done better with England.
Remids me of that age old Catholicism debate - who was the best Apostle?....11 with enough for one sub! but I hear the dogmatists out there cry but who's the sub? Everyone loves a bastard baptist....ergo The Souness v Keane position, debate..... come - they'd sell both of their grandmnothers down the swany to win a game of football.
So, yeah, Geoff Thomas wins.
It an ill elephant.
So, yeah, Geoff Thomas wins.
It an ill elephant.
Comparing these players was something I often did as a kid...
But now ive realised that they all operated slightly different roles, were surrounded by different players etc. Its difficult to make ay sort of comparision.
Especially as youd never have choose between them if you actually had the choice, I mean you could fit them all into one XI (I think).
But now ive realised that they all operated slightly different roles, were surrounded by different players etc. Its difficult to make ay sort of comparision.
Especially as youd never have choose between them if you actually had the choice, I mean you could fit them all into one XI (I think).
In my opinion, using Premier League trophies to argue that Scholes was way better than Gerrard is the equivalent of using international trophies to argue that Xabi Alonso is way better than Scholes.
I think that Scholes was in many ways better than Gerrard and would fit better in a Guardiola team, but Gerrard was better in other ways and would probably fit better in an Ancelotti team. But I cannot agree with the claims that Scholes was "way better" because he won more.
I think that Scholes was in many ways better than Gerrard and would fit better in a Guardiola team, but Gerrard was better in other ways and would probably fit better in an Ancelotti team. But I cannot agree with the claims that Scholes was "way better" because he won more.
Scholes with any of those two? No problem.
Gerrard with Lampard would have been very difficult though considering that they play in the same position, and well, we saw them. The only way it might have worked would have been to play Gerrard at right wing, but he wasn't that great there.
I always think what would have happened if Gerrard would have been developed as a box to box midfielder instead of an attacking one. He would have probably been a better Keane in that position.
heh, ancelotti would take scholes over gerrard every single time actually
Most complete midfielders in the Premier League era: Keane, followed by Vieira
Best English midfielder in the Premier League era: Scholes, followed by quite a wide chasm, then Lampard and Gerrard.
Best English midfielder in the Premier League era: Scholes, followed by quite a wide chasm, then Lampard and Gerrard.
To do that, he'd have had to display an ounce of tactical acumen, which he never really did. Gerrard as an athletic specimen? Amazing. Gerrard as a cerebral presence on the pitch? Never.
England managers should have done this:
"Steve, you're my captain. I'm going to build the team around Scholesey. So you play a little deeper. Frank's going to drift in from the left."
"Steve, you're my captain. I'm going to build the team around Scholesey. So you play a little deeper. Frank's going to drift in from the left."
That just goes to show how lucky we, as United fans, were to see these four amazing players. I agree that, during their respective time at the club, Scholes wasn't as important as Keane and Beckham (50/50 w/Giggs) but that doesn't take away his quality.
Though my favourite Scholes season was in 02/03, I'm sure most would say his prime was during 06-09 (give or take) with both Becks and Keane gone and Giggs not being as important due to the revelations that were Rooney and Ronaldo.
It's a silly debate, although my 2 cents id have Scholes and Lampard before Gerrard. Scholes and Lampard's CV's are much better. Scholes and Lampard is close. Goalscoring wise only one winner, Lampard, but i think Scholes had the better footballing brain. Passing, vision, etc.
Lampard is 10 goals behind Andy Cole and 18 off Rooney in the record scorers list. From CM ffs. That is silly good, like, phenomenally good
Lampard is 10 goals behind Andy Cole and 18 off Rooney in the record scorers list. From CM ffs. That is silly good, like, phenomenally good
Best player doesn't mean anything to the team. I say the best football player is a player who contribute to his team in a way the whole team is successful.
Scholes is and always will be better as his contribution to man utd has won us a lot of trophies, and his goal againts Barcelona in the CL when we needed something special.
20 major honours.
Lampard next for the same reasons contribution to Chelsea so the TEAM wins trophies.
11 major honours
Gerrard for how good he was is lacking in the trophy list yes because of the team.
8 major honours
Scholes is and always will be better as his contribution to man utd has won us a lot of trophies, and his goal againts Barcelona in the CL when we needed something special.
20 major honours.
Lampard next for the same reasons contribution to Chelsea so the TEAM wins trophies.
11 major honours
Gerrard for how good he was is lacking in the trophy list yes because of the team.
8 major honours
Zinedine Zidane: My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. Scholes is undoubtedly the greatest midfielder of his generation.
Say no more.
Scholes also excelled as 3 different types of central player throughout his career.
He was a very good box-to-box player, he was an amazing AM, and was a world class DLP. The ways he adapted throughout his career was incredible.
He was a very good box-to-box player, he was an amazing AM, and was a world class DLP. The ways he adapted throughout his career was incredible.
Zidane on Gerrard:
"Is he the best in the world? He might not get the attention of Messi and Cristiano but yes, I think he just might be"
Say no more now?
People shouldn't use zidane/xabi/xavi/pirlo quotes to back up any argument. These are nice guys who say nice things about their fellow pros. A Google search of "Zidane quotes on Gerrard" is full of him praising Gerrard. You can't use his opinion on either Scholes or Gerrard as being definitive in any way, shape or form.
Sorry pal - I rate Zidane's opinion over yours.
Ha ha!
Where have I given an opinion?
(Scholes by the way)
I simply pointed out the fallacy of using a Zidane quote as he is also on record as praising Gerrard to the heights.
Which of Zidane opinions is it then?
If you agree with Zidane on Scholes then you must agree over Gerrard too? Because anything else would be selective.
Did you not read what I said before you jumped on it?
Zidane clearly stating that Scholes was the best midfielder of his generation is the opinion I was referring to. This puts Scholes at the top of his list if you need help understanding.
In fine, thanks. I understand perfectly. No need to be so precious, "pal"!!!
You use the Zidane quotes as you see fit.
Use the one that suits your agenda, and dismiss the quote that doesn't.
Scholes WAS better. I think we're agreed on that.
Good point - Lampard did score more, but I'd be interested to see how many of his league goals were penalties - as for the best part of a decade he was their first choice penalty taker, whereas Scholes would seldom take them for us. The season Scholes scored 14 league goals and 20 in total was the year we signed Veron and we used Scholes in the Rooney role behind the striker.
His PL stats list him as having scored 32/177 as penalties. Which isn't that much, if you take it as an average of around 3/4 goals per season from his prime years...if even that. And his penalty taking status largely derives from him being remarkably accurate in front of goal, too.
You are a Liverpool supporter aren't you
well done @Kraftwerker Most of your recent posts are about Liverpool!
Lamps was sensational and unbelievably prolific for Chelsea, but when England needed a creative spark from midfield neither he or Stevie Me could deliver the goods which was a source of endless frustration. I rate him highly but have always preferred the likes of Silva, Toure, Fabregas.
I definitely undervalued him for a long time, maybe because he developed very late (relatively) and was regarded to be industrious and effective at maximizing his abilities in teams with formidable (and more celebrated) team mates, and because he played throughout the time a certain Paul Scholes was around. Still, when all's said and done he is rightly considered a Chelsea and PL legend who also happens to be a top bloke and role model as well. Will miss him and hope to see him as a pundit.
I definitely undervalued him for a long time, maybe because he developed very late (relatively) and was regarded to be industrious and effective at maximizing his abilities in teams with formidable (and more celebrated) team mates, and because he played throughout the time a certain Paul Scholes was around. Still, when all's said and done he is rightly considered a Chelsea and PL legend who also happens to be a top bloke and role model as well. Will miss him and hope to see him as a pundit.
He doesn't exactly hide it well does he. Not the brightest tool in the shed, bless him.You are a Liverpool supporter aren't you
Most of your recent posts are about Liverpool!
Poor fecker is probably feeling gutted after the Hull defeat and thought he'd try to come on here and blow off some steam bigging up former glory men like Stevie G.
Bigging up Stevie G? Where, you moron?
Anyway I'm done with this site. You've accused me several times of being a liverpool fan and now your Internet followers, incapable of independent thought are on it too.
You go back to playing your FIFA games in the middle of the night. Grown man?
Ha ha, you're a sad cnut. I'll try not let door hit me on way out. Peace out, mother fecker!
The player quotes regarding Scholes are beyond parody at this point and need to end before my mind melts.