Agreed. Just hope we can get to the Euros with relatively few injury worries but regardless I'd like to see a change in the next 12 months for World Cup qualifying but there is a big risk.
Scotland National Team Discussion
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
Agreed. Just hope we can get to the Euros with relatively few injury worries but regardless I'd like to see a change in the next 12 months for World Cup qualifying but there is a big risk.
If we make it out of the groups I think I'd give Clarke another go at the WCQ but if we go out as dismally as we did the last Euros I'd probably look to change it.
Nervous about Germany now, they seem to have got their act together.
For me Clarke was well over-rated up to and around Euro 2020 simply on the basis of qualifying for a tournament. Scraping into a 24-team continental tournament is no real achievement and, had it been a 16 or even 8 team set-up like in previous iterations, we would have been left at home yet again. And we still failed to reach the last 16 even when we did get there. Some individual mistakes and a freak goal granted, but I reckon he got it wrong with McTominay as the no6 against Czech Republic and O'Donnell struggled in both that and the Croatia games, when he really should have embraced the potential of Gilmour and Patterson. So it was basically the same shite as the previous 20 years but presented as a success because we reached a bloated tournament.
To give him his dues, his record in competitive matches since then has been very impressive. He has also resolved the tactical problem presented by having Tierney and Robertson in the same team. We've been poor in recent games though - England, France, Spain, Northern Ireland, Georgia - very little to celebrate in those ties. A lot riding on a respectable showing in the summer.
To give him his dues, his record in competitive matches since then has been very impressive. He has also resolved the tactical problem presented by having Tierney and Robertson in the same team. We've been poor in recent games though - England, France, Spain, Northern Ireland, Georgia - very little to celebrate in those ties. A lot riding on a respectable showing in the summer.
It took me a while to come around to Clarke. I thought he was the same exact manager as we've had over the last 20 years and didn't expect much of him. At the time I was quite annoyed because the talent pool had significantly improved and the manager didn't meet the standard of that talent. But, then he got us qualified for a tournament and backed him for a bit.
But, I think he's peaked with this team now. Nice job with the back to back Euros but, maybe find something different with this current group. Relying on midfielders to be creative and score goals only gets you so far. He's at his limit as both McGinn and McTominey have stopped scoring for him.
Starting XIs are live on UEFA website. United U21 midfielder James Scanlon starts for Gib against Scotland, so he'll be one to watch for United fans.
All our strikers are off this summer to have a nice European trip. McBurnie to Las Palmas and Adams to Torino!
To be fair, if I was a pro I'd move somewhere like that for a couple of seasons 
Wow, it really shows the level eh?
I was thinking about this the other day when there was a discussion about the likes of Rashford, Maddison and Grealish not making the England squad. How far down the list of English players would still make a Scotland squad?
We know guys like Harvey Barnes would probably walk into the team, never mind the squad. But given the likes of Ben Doak made it, even the likes of the young lad going back to Villa Philogene would probably make the team, never mind folk like Madueke and Hudson Odoi that would be certanties.
How far down the list of strikers? Solanke, Calvert-Lewin, Wilson, Nketiah, Abraham, Ings, Welbeck, Armstrong.
Defenders you have guys like Wan Bissaka, Mitchell, Rico Henry, Tarkowski, Chalobah, Tosin, Kilman, Livramento, Walker-Peters, Alfie Doughty that barely even get mentioned for England.
Quite scary the talent that England have that would walk into a Scottish squad.
You're right they have miles better players that can't make their squad that would walk into our 11. Envious AF really.
Pretty much. That shows though how ridiculous it is when people argue that England can't do better as a side when you could have 2 or 3 XIs from a nation that are better than a team that were in the same tournament as them!
Also when that team is the last to beat Spain in a competitive match.
A lot of Scottish players moving to the continent this window and over the past few seasons!
Would be great to see Miller and Wilson getting some minutes depending on how the games go. We have a real issue now where in CM we are very stacked. Ferguson, McT and Gilmour all good last or this season in Serie A and Christie has been class for Bournemouth this season. That's without mentioning McGinn or the young talent Miller.
I know it's a couple of serious games so cooler heads must prevail but I'd love to see Ferguson and Miller both get good run outs. I have been so impressed with them, and Ferguson was terribly unlucky with that injury before the Euros. I'm quietly confident for Thursday.
but I'd love to see Ferguson and Miller both get good run outs. I have been so impressed with them, and Ferguson was terribly unlucky with that injury before the Euros. I'm quietly confident for Thursday.Aye, I am assuming he will go back to a 5 due to the lack of Doak and Tierney back in contention. I think he'll probably go with McGinn, McT, Gilmour and Christie so Ferguson will miss out on a starting place.I know it's a couple of serious games so cooler heads must prevail
Do these games influence the qualifying for the World Cup or just decide which Nations League group they're in the next time?
Good to see Clarke calling up Miller, Wilson and Johnston. Hopefully Ralston can be moved back to the bench.
Hope he stays with the back 4. We ended up too passive in the back 5 by the Euros. And the bonus is it gives us an extra space for a midfielder.
Goalkeeper is a concern, we seem to be marooned between two generations.
Hope he stays with the back 4. We ended up too passive in the back 5 by the Euros. And the bonus is it gives us an extra space for a midfielder.
Goalkeeper is a concern, we seem to be marooned between two generations.
Got away with it tonight. Clarke isn't the man.
Nope but superb result.
Clarke needs to go. Will be disappointed if we give him another major campaign.
Horrible display. I'm not sure we were quite as bad as the scoreline suggests but we got what we deserved.
Grant Hanley is just a minger of a player. If he is genuinely the best we have at centre back then we're fecked.
Grant Hanley is just a minger of a player. If he is genuinely the best we have at centre back then we're fecked.
Clarke’s done okay since the Euros but the last 135 minutes were as grim as it’s ever been. One team looked cohesive and more than the sum of their parts. The other looked like we’d not played together. His loyalty is killing us to guys who aren’t playing much club football or who are playing at a much lower level. Could see the issues last night with:
- Greece targeting Ralston as a pressing trap and then overloading that area of the park. Not good when we have Johnston and Tierney on the bench.
- Christie struggling in an unfamiliar position, even though he’s been running the centre of midfield for Bournemouth all season. Hard to justify Maclean start ahead of Ferguson.
- A softness in the centre with anything well worked on the deck. Again hard to understand Hanley starting ahead of McKenna.
I hope not. I think we are making the same mistake that England made with Southgate and allowing Clarke to go out on his terms. He came in and did well initially but his performances at the actual tournaments have been dreadful and it's becoming the same old story. We need to freshen things up.
You should employ Southgate
How have Scotland managed to fall off so quickly? Have they lost players to retirement, poor/tough draws, or did they actually overperform during the last qualification?
We were sh*te but McTominay couldn't stop scoring.
Feels like you just put Christie in CM as Bournemouth do it but he knows the Iraola system inside out. In the past when I've seen Scotland he's always played out wide.
Surely by now Lewis Ferguson needs to be an automatic starter. He had ACL but been back since November and Bologna back in top 5 of Serie A so he's clearly a very good player in Serie A and pretty young so just amuses me you'd rather play Kenny McLean, mid table championship player at Norwich.
I also think with Robertson declining giving Tierney some games back at LB might not be a bad idea but that's more difficult with Robertson being the captain.
The long term Scotland issues are having awful options at CB and CF so it is a case of setting up the side as strongly as possible in other areas and hoping that can get results but I think Clarke is a bit like Page was for Wales after the last World Cup and you need fresh ideas at the top.
Surely by now Lewis Ferguson needs to be an automatic starter. He had ACL but been back since November and Bologna back in top 5 of Serie A so he's clearly a very good player in Serie A and pretty young so just amuses me you'd rather play Kenny McLean, mid table championship player at Norwich.
I also think with Robertson declining giving Tierney some games back at LB might not be a bad idea but that's more difficult with Robertson being the captain.
The long term Scotland issues are having awful options at CB and CF so it is a case of setting up the side as strongly as possible in other areas and hoping that can get results but I think Clarke is a bit like Page was for Wales after the last World Cup and you need fresh ideas at the top.
Clarke has been shite when it mattered. Two meek Euro performances should've have seen him gone last summer. Not to mention the form leading up the tournament.
CB is obviously an issue but maybe a smarter manager can come in and fix it or find away to play around it.
Who are some of the names waiting in the wings when Clarke's time is up? Could Rodgers be tempted? Does Derek McInnes have much stock anymore? Something similar to Ireland going for Hallgrímsson might be in order.
To be a consistently strong team in international football, I reckon you do need a top class forward which is what we’ve lacked.
And we did overperform a little in qualification - the win away in Norway was a robbery.
Our strength is in midfield and I’m not convinced that is where Clarke’s strengths lie. We have a collection of talented ball-retaining midfielders who would benefit from a progressive coach. He was always about being hard to beat and compact.
I was shocked to see that 42 year old Craig Gordon was in goal for Scotland yesterday!
I've always had a soft spot for Scotland but I don't think they have enough quality and enough goals in the team to really do anything on the main stage of International football.
They really need somebody like Ben Doak to step up and become a top level player.
I've always had a soft spot for Scotland but I don't think they have enough quality and enough goals in the team to really do anything on the main stage of International football.
They really need somebody like Ben Doak to step up and become a top level player.
The decision to drop Lewis Ferguson for Kenny Mclean is mind blowing, disaster of a performance, after the first 10 minutes we were ridiculously easy to play through and had no idea how to break Greece down.
I wouldn't mind trying someone like Russell Martin if he could be persuaded.
Think Moyes will probably do it eventually but will probably have to wait another 18 months.