I've seen him play against City, Chelsea, Spurs and a cup game.Have you seen him play for more then 10 full games?
I guess you've never seen him play in a full game?
I've seen him play against City, Chelsea, Spurs and a cup game.Have you seen him play for more then 10 full games?
I mean, I believe that and I wasnt suggesting we sign Hayden either. Although I did think he had a better season from the games I saw than Longstaff.Longstaff is considered a bigger talent even by the Newcastle coaching staff at u23 level. I know this because I know Mason Greenwood very well and he played away with the u23 team at St James's in April which gave us the opportunity to have a chat with some of the Newcastle coaching staff.
I watched him in a couple of games but the sample is far too small for anyone to judge let alone spend 50m uponI've seen him play against City, Chelsea, Spurs and a cup game.
I guess you've never seen him play in a full game?
You can make the same point about all our flops.Yes. And Falcao, Veron, Schneiderlin (bet you would have been a fan since he looked good at WhoScored) and many more.
The club have made alot of mistakes in the transfer market. Most do. Reason being it is hard to predict the future. That does not make the case for lazy arguments.
Someone obviously see something special in Longstaff. They could be right or they could be wrong. But I do not think that they buy him without having a lot of information about the players. They have more stats on him than what is available to the public (and probably more players to compare him to). The stats we are provided today by sites like WhoScored and Squawka where used by clubs like Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal for more than fifteen years ago.
So, if his stats are not that good in the PL last year, and we still want him, why is that do you think? They lack your sophisticated ability to use whoscored? Probably not..
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So you actually believe that the club are unaware of the basic stats you keep presenting from WhoScored and that we would be better at signing players if someone started using that?Yes I was happy we signed Schneiderlin.
I'm sorry but if you really think United are better at analyzing data and identifying transfer targets with our transfer record in the past 5 years than some of the people on the transfer forum, you're having a laugh.
Clubs that consistently make good signings? Absolutely. Of course they are
Us? Give me a break We barely make a successful signing.
First of all, nobody is spending 50m on Longstaff, in the same way nobody was going to spend 70m on AWB despite media reports to the contrary.I watched him in a couple of games but the sample is far too small for anyone to judge let alone spend 50m upon
Then why did they not snatch him whilst in Newcastle reserves??First of all, nobody is spending 50m on Longstaff, in the same way nobody was going to spend 70m on AWB despite media reports to the contrary.
Second, I hear tell that scouts have a magical ability to see non-PL games too. In which case whatever we spent on him wouldn't be based on that small sample of PL games.
Silly me. Yes let's count lower division games. They prove a lot.He’s played over 70 first team games and United aren’t paying anywhere near 50 million for him.
Try sticking to facts over recycling the same blurb.
You mean the same scouts that gave the go ahead for Bailly, Mkhitaryan, sanchez and Fred?First of all, nobody is spending 50m on Longstaff, in the same way nobody was going to spend 70m on AWB despite media reports to the contrary.
Second, I hear tell that scouts have a magical ability to see non-PL games too. In which case whatever we spent on him wouldn't be based on that small sample of PL games.
Delle Alli is on the phone. He wants a wordSilly me. Yes let's count lower division games. They prove a lot.
Is the word "overrated".Delle Alli is on the phone. He wants a word
Mate from school or something?Longstaff is considered a bigger talent even by the Newcastle coaching staff at u23 level. I know this because I know Mason Greenwood very well and he played away with the u23 team at St James's in April which gave us the opportunity to have a chat with some of the Newcastle coaching staff.
Nah it's champions league finalist and PFA young player of the year x 2Is the word "overrated".
It should be.
Alli is an outlier, not the norm.Delle Alli is on the phone. He wants a word
This is all lovely. But how is this relevant to people going nuts over longstaff?Nah it's champions league finalist and PFA young player of the year x 2
You get it. Spot on.Alli is an outlier, not the norm.
Gambling on a player that had 9 games in the top flight with the amount touted around is an unnecessary risk that our club really can't afford to take anymore. Our midfield options are paper thin, and we should be going for someone that is at least more proven than just 9 games. 9 games is a very, very small sample size. If you only look at Di Maria's first 9 games for us you would thought he is an amazing signing for us.
Because you can be tracking a player & monitoring his potential without knowing whether he's ready to make the step up to PL level. That doesn't mean all the other games you've seen him in aren't useful in determining his potential though.Then why did they not snatch him whilst in Newcastle reserves??
His Dad is a mate of mine..Mate from school or something?
No we signed him after he was perhaps the best player at the euros after multiple seasons with Everton.Because you can be tracking a player & monitoring his potential without knowing whether he's ready to make the step up to PL level. That doesn't mean all the other games you've seen him in aren't useful in determining his potential though.
There's a big difference between using nine PL games as confirmation of the qualities you've already identified in a player and using nine PL games to form your entire opinion of the player.
We had been monitoring someone like Rooney since he was a kid too and knew he was an outstanding talent (far, far, far more so than someone like Longstaff) but we didn't sign him at a younger pre-PL age either.
Right. Which has nothing to do with the point I was making.No we signed him after he was perhaps the best player at the euros after multiple seasons with Everton.
So nothing like Longstaff
Newcastles fee is clouding your judgement imo. He's a young player we like that we thought we could get for a reasonable fee and use him as an option to develop. 50m suddenly turns him into a risk we can't take etc etc and that's through no fault of our own and the Brexit FC memes come flying in. The player and 20 odd million was our target, not Di Maria type gamble.Alli is an outlier, not the norm.
Gambling on a player that had 9 games in the top flight with the amount touted around is an unnecessary risk that our club really can't afford to take anymore. Our midfield options are paper thin, and we should be going for someone that is at least more proven than just 9 games. 9 games is a very, very small sample size. If you only look at Di Maria's first 9 games for us you would thought he is an amazing signing for us.
I mostly agree with you mate. I was partially playing devils advocate whilst erring on the line of caution by dismissing lower league experience.Alli is an outlier, not the norm.
Gambling on a player that had 9 games in the top flight with the amount touted around is an unnecessary risk that our club really can't afford to take anymore. Our midfield options are paper thin, and we should be going for someone that is at least more proven than just 9 games. 9 games is a very, very small sample size. If you only look at Di Maria's first 9 games for us you would thought he is an amazing signing for us.
The guy said you cannot count lower league games....This is all lovely. But how is this relevant to people going nuts over longstaff?
Then 9 top flight games in which in some he barely touched the ball, can be used to confirm what exactly?Because you can be tracking a player & monitoring his potential without knowing whether he's ready to make the step up to PL level. That doesn't mean all the other games you've seen him in aren't useful in determining his potential though.
There's a big difference between using nine PL games as confirmation of the qualities you've already identified in a player and using nine PL games to form your entire opinion of the player.
We had been monitoring someone like Rooney since he was a kid too and knew he was an outstanding talent (far, far, far more so than someone like Longstaff) but we didn't sign him at a younger pre-PL age either.
That he's ready to play at a higher level than he has previously. Which, in conjunction with years of previous information available to you, can provide you with an assessment of his potential.Then 9 top flight games in which in some he barely touched the ball, can be used to confirm what exactly?
Ok great. And being able to play At a higher level than Scotland and League one.....is that the requirements to fix our suffering midfield? Shouldn't we be looking at players with champions league potential?That he's ready to play at a higher level than he has previously. Which, in conjunction with years of previous information available to you, can provide you with an assessment of his potential.
As opposed to just judging him off his PL games, which allegedly only a rare few of us have seen any of.
That explains why one of redcafe's finest posters had suddenly became unusually biased. Fair enoughHis Dad is a mate of mine..
In what way am I biased? I think you're being harsh there Dev..That explains why one of redcafe's finest posters had suddenly became unusually biased. Fair enough
Your point was that we had kept an eye on him as a youngster and then signed him later. Yes we did but not after 9 premier league games. It was after 31 Everton games and 10 goals, plus a EUROS where he was fantastic.Right. Which has nothing to do with the point I was making.
No one player is going to fix our midfield.Ok great. And being able to play At a higher level than Scotland and League one.....is that the requirements to fix our suffering midfield? Shouldn't we be looking at players with champions league potential?
We tried to sign him multiple times before he made hs Everton debutYour point was that we had kept an eye on him as a youngster and then signed him later. Yes we did but not after 9 premier league games. It was after 31 Everton games and 10 goals, plus a EUROS where he was fantastic.
Another season or two at Newcastle and some big performances for England and I'd be extremely excited about Longstaff like I was about Rooney. We arent there.
You know his family. I got in that pickle myself a couple of years ago so believe me Im not being judgementalIn what way am I biased? I think you're being harsh there Dev..
2 more seasons like this Chelsea,City, Liverpool, Spurs all could be in for him. He is English and will definitely go for atleast 20m in future. Its a good investment - just go for it.Your point was that we had kept an eye on him as a youngster and then signed him later. Yes we did but not after 9 premier league games. It was after 31 Everton games and 10 goals, plus a EUROS where he was fantastic.
Another season or two at Newcastle and some big performances for England and I'd be extremely excited about Longstaff like I was about Rooney. We arent there.
Could you not say the same about Eric Dier?No one player is going to fix our midfield.
Can someone like Longstaff be part of that fix by a) being PL ready and b) having potential to keep getting better? Obviously.
Presumably that's what the club sees in him.
Plus, as has been made clear at this point, we're at the beginning of a rebuild that will take several years. Players don't have to be the finished article right now to be quality signings. Nor do we have to sign a host of ready-made CL standard players to make up the five point gap to a top four place, which is this season's aim.
This is where I'm at too, basically. I saw a tweet somewhere that said he hasn't been capped at any of the underage levels. Which suggests he's been very much under the radar. So, yeah, he may be this extraordinary talent just training on a little later, but I suspect it's just as likely that he's a player who had one short run of games at the top level, who still has far too much to prove to be spending the sort of money being talked about. People will dismiss the fee and say that it doesn't, or shouldn't matter to supporters, but if we allow ourselves to pay £40m odd for a player with very little obvious pedigree, the next time we go to buy someone like that we'll be quoted £60m.Your point was that we had kept an eye on him as a youngster and then signed him later. Yes we did but not after 9 premier league games. It was after 31 Everton games and 10 goals, plus a EUROS where he was fantastic.
Another season or two at Newcastle and some big performances for England and I'd be extremely excited about Longstaff like I was about Rooney. We arent there.
I was responding to @Stacks asking why we didn't sign Longstaff earlier if we had been monitoring him for a long time. The fact that we didn't sign Rooney (who was immensely more talented) at a younger age either backs up my point that you can be monitoring and assessing someone for a while without signing them.Your point was that we had kept an eye on him as a youngster and then signed him later. Yes we did but not after 9 premier league games. It was after 31 Everton games and 10 goals, plus a EUROS where he was fantastic.
Another season or two at Newcastle and some big performances for England and I'd be extremely excited about Longstaff like I was about Rooney. We arent there.
It's just a stylistic comparison though?? Why is that a problem? For what it's worth I can definitely see a Carrick comparison because he moves in a similar way and seems to have the same type of smooth bearing and passing range. I don't see anybody claiming with certainty that he's a great player because nobody's seen enough. All we can do at the moment is watch a few clips, read reports and try to get a rough idea.Because I'm being told he's a bit like Carrick or looks better than Henderson did at his age. I've only seen a bit but I can see that its another case of people being desperate to make comparisons with another really good player when really he still has lots to prove to be mentioned in the same breath
I think most would Not bat an eyelid at 25mill valuation.This is where I'm at too, basically. I saw a tweet somewhere that said he hasn't been capped at any of the underage levels. Which suggests he's been very much under the radar. So, yeah, he may be this extraordinary talent just training on a little later, but I suspect it's just as likely that he's a player who had one short run of games at the top level, who still has far too much to prove to be spending the sort of money being talked about. People will dismiss the fee and say that it doesn't, or shouldn't matter to supporters, but if we allow ourselves to pay £40m odd for a player with very little obvious pedigree, the next time we go to buy someone like that we'll be quoted £60m.
In terms of being PL ready? Yes. In terms of having the potential to be better? No. Eric Dier is an immensely limited midfielder. If Longstaff appeared to be in any way that limited, this wouldn't be a conversation.Could you not say the same about Eric Dier?
Hopefully our best forward scores the winning goal in the second half wearing the #26..You know his family. I got in that pickle myself a couple of years ago so believe me Im not being judgemental