Shite defender, great captain. Hopefully he switch it in CL Final.
Sergio Ramos
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Top leader, average defender, cnutish behavior.
Massive cnut but you'd want him in your team.
Reminds me of Craig Bellamy (what a weird comparison), biggest cnut in the world but my God would you love him in your team.
He's lucky to play for Madrid and can get away with cnutish things, covering his lack in defending.
Honest question to RMA fans, how do you feel Ramos as a defender, note as a defender. Personality wise I feel he is a cnut but I would love to have a player /leader like him but as a defender he makes smalling look like Maldini. Wish smalling had half a personality like ramos
Why would you want Bellamy in your team?
Yea that's such a strange comparison
When ranking central defenders, I rate them in 4 aspects.
1. Actual defending on the ground against pacy and/or powerful attackers. Can either be great in man-marking (tackling), or sweeping the ball away before the attacker gets to it. Being able to anticipate the play before it happens and adequately counter.
2. Organizational skills. Marshaling the back 4/3 + keeper + defensive midfielder(s). Or at least not fecking up the defensive scheme on a regular basis. Setting the offside trap when the defense pushes up. Organizing defensive positions during set pieces.
3. Being comfortable on the ball. Supporting possession. Bringing the ball out of the defense. Finding open outfield players with the long ball or at their feet. Able to play with the ball against the press without hoofing the ball back to the opposition. Being an adequate outlet against the press (not hiding from the ball).
4. Being a threat in the other box. Scoring from corners and other dead ball situations.
I would say that in order to be a world class defender, you should be at least very good in areas 1-3, and world class in either 1 or 3 or both. 4 is optional and a nice cherry on top (loved Vidic and his headers), but the 5 goals you score in a season don't compensate for being mediocre in areas 1-3.
And with Ramos, I can honestly say he's not excellent, or very good, in area 1 or 3. Which is my main sticking point with him.
He's a decent defender. Very capable of holding his own in the box during corners and dead-ball situations. But I'd say as overall defenders, Varane and Pepe a few years ago are/were the more crucial players in the back line charged with locking down opponent strikers. He's at least 1 tier below a defender like Godin in this regard. Plus his yellow card record is just ridiculous. He's not a liability on the ball by any means, but he's not responsible for bringing the ball out of defense or starting attacks. With Marcelo and Carvajal, you don't need to. But I wouldn't say he's as good as Pique in that regard. Organizational skills? Being a leader? I think a lot of people overrate this quality when speaking of Ramos but I can't deny what Ramos brings to the team in terms of leadership. You don't feel a void after Casillas' departure, the way United fans still clamour for a player of Keane's qualities leadership wise. Fair enough. As for harming the opposition, he's popped up at crucial moments for Madrid, and you can't take those moments away from him. I just see those as optional additions.
Most world class defenders have featured in teams known for not giving many goals to the opposition. Being able to lock shit down through the low block or by strangling possession. Atletico and Juventus today. United between 2006 and 2009. Chelsea between 2004 and 2006. Barcelona today, and at Pep's time. Heynekes' Bayern. For all of Real's success of late, they've never been a top defensive team; their strength is in scoring more than you. And not all blame falls on Ramos, but he's not ex-culpable.
For the status he has, based on his trophy count, you'd be forgiven for thinking he was equal (as a defender) with the likes of Nesta and Thuram and Ferdinand and co... he's not in that tier. If selecting a player for United, I'd take Godin, Varane, Pique or Umtiti ahead of him without hesitation. And that's just in La Liga.
1. Actual defending on the ground against pacy and/or powerful attackers. Can either be great in man-marking (tackling), or sweeping the ball away before the attacker gets to it. Being able to anticipate the play before it happens and adequately counter.
2. Organizational skills. Marshaling the back 4/3 + keeper + defensive midfielder(s). Or at least not fecking up the defensive scheme on a regular basis. Setting the offside trap when the defense pushes up. Organizing defensive positions during set pieces.
3. Being comfortable on the ball. Supporting possession. Bringing the ball out of the defense. Finding open outfield players with the long ball or at their feet. Able to play with the ball against the press without hoofing the ball back to the opposition. Being an adequate outlet against the press (not hiding from the ball).
4. Being a threat in the other box. Scoring from corners and other dead ball situations.
I would say that in order to be a world class defender, you should be at least very good in areas 1-3, and world class in either 1 or 3 or both. 4 is optional and a nice cherry on top (loved Vidic and his headers), but the 5 goals you score in a season don't compensate for being mediocre in areas 1-3.
And with Ramos, I can honestly say he's not excellent, or very good, in area 1 or 3. Which is my main sticking point with him.
He's a decent defender. Very capable of holding his own in the box during corners and dead-ball situations. But I'd say as overall defenders, Varane and Pepe a few years ago are/were the more crucial players in the back line charged with locking down opponent strikers. He's at least 1 tier below a defender like Godin in this regard. Plus his yellow card record is just ridiculous. He's not a liability on the ball by any means, but he's not responsible for bringing the ball out of defense or starting attacks. With Marcelo and Carvajal, you don't need to. But I wouldn't say he's as good as Pique in that regard. Organizational skills? Being a leader? I think a lot of people overrate this quality when speaking of Ramos but I can't deny what Ramos brings to the team in terms of leadership. You don't feel a void after Casillas' departure, the way United fans still clamour for a player of Keane's qualities leadership wise. Fair enough. As for harming the opposition, he's popped up at crucial moments for Madrid, and you can't take those moments away from him. I just see those as optional additions.
Most world class defenders have featured in teams known for not giving many goals to the opposition. Being able to lock shit down through the low block or by strangling possession. Atletico and Juventus today. United between 2006 and 2009. Chelsea between 2004 and 2006. Barcelona today, and at Pep's time. Heynekes' Bayern. For all of Real's success of late, they've never been a top defensive team; their strength is in scoring more than you. And not all blame falls on Ramos, but he's not ex-culpable.
For the status he has, based on his trophy count, you'd be forgiven for thinking he was equal (as a defender) with the likes of Nesta and Thuram and Ferdinand and co... he's not in that tier. If selecting a player for United, I'd take Godin, Varane, Pique or Umtiti ahead of him without hesitation. And that's just in La Liga.
ATG
I think he would do well in the older Premier League, but as it becomes more technical then he probably wouldn't do as well. He wins a lot of balls in the air, but you can see when he's up against Messi on the ground that he is made to look like a complete oaf (which is not a disgrace). If you remember the way the Blackburn team that won the league played, loads of direct balls into the box towards Shearer and Sutton, Ramos would probably be the ideal CB against that. I'm not sure he'd be quite so good against Guardiola's City.
David Bellamy? He'd be good at evaluating the pitch I suppose.
There's absolutely no way Varane's a better defender than Ramos. No Real Madrid fan in the world thinks that.
Ramos is very good on the ball, not sure why you don't rate him on point 3. Rarely makes mistakes and his ability to play crossfield passes to the right back starts a lot of Madrid attacks. The main reason he looks so out of place defensively so often is because he has to defend more space and more players than most CBs since the midfield doesn't give enough protection and Marcelo only defends when he feels like it.
He's still nowhere near good enough at tracking those runs and he is way too rash very often.
He's probably the most divisive player in football history, so many people think he's just ok and so many people think he's the best of his generation but the truth is somewhere in the middle.
To be honest, I really like him. They missed him at home to Juve and nearly went out. Real's defence is better when he's playing. Shame we didn't sign him a year or so back when a transfer was mooted but I guess I was just playing us along.
Ramos is a good defender. Not world class and not many are anyway at this moment but good enough to play and a very very good footballer and leader in that Madrid team.
What!? Bellamy was literally the last person I would want in our team. Average player, absolute terrible human-being. Ramos is highly respected, even though he is crazy.
Whatever happened to his foundation? If memory serves, he set up a deal to help young African footballers but fell afoul of the Charities Commission.
The man is a great defender but also the biggest cnut there is.. Great on the ball, decent pace , hard as nails when he needs to and regularly leaves one or two on the attacker .. He is a great captain and a big game player if there was one .. Plus he also chips in with important goals..
That said I cant stand the guy but he would be loved in any team for being their cnut..
That said I cant stand the guy but he would be loved in any team for being their cnut..
When he's fully locked in he's a great defender, one of the best
His problems are 1) his tendency to lose focus, particularly in "easy" games. Barcelona aside he's often great defensively in big games. 2) he's really good on the ball, but he's way too overconfident, which often leads to stupid mistakes 3) He lacks the self-discipline and positional sense to command the line effectively. He's not bad at it, but he should be way better. 4) He's reckless. Often takes unnecessary risks 5) he's always good to lose his mind and do something seriously stupid
All in all, defensively he's one of the best in the world, but that's mostly because there are very few truly great CBs defensively. He's not a patch on guys like Nesta or Ferdinand, or even Puyol. Pepe is better than him too for example
But overall as a player, he has to be one of the best CBs ever. He just brings so much to the table beyond defending. He willed us to two CL and a CL/league double
His problems are 1) his tendency to lose focus, particularly in "easy" games. Barcelona aside he's often great defensively in big games. 2) he's really good on the ball, but he's way too overconfident, which often leads to stupid mistakes 3) He lacks the self-discipline and positional sense to command the line effectively. He's not bad at it, but he should be way better. 4) He's reckless. Often takes unnecessary risks 5) he's always good to lose his mind and do something seriously stupid
All in all, defensively he's one of the best in the world, but that's mostly because there are very few truly great CBs defensively. He's not a patch on guys like Nesta or Ferdinand, or even Puyol. Pepe is better than him too for example
But overall as a player, he has to be one of the best CBs ever. He just brings so much to the table beyond defending. He willed us to two CL and a CL/league double
Without any doubt. Also people play down him when he plays against Barca, it's the toughest job to defend against Messi. Luckily CBs in England never had to defend against player like Messi. Easy to forget Messi made Vidic look like average CB in 2011. If we played Barca twice a year, he would have made so many of our CBs looks very average.
Yeah but my God did he give everything to win. Just ask Liverpool or City fans, aside from when golfing most fans love him.
Bellamy was a born cnut who'd do anything to win. Plain and simple, limited footballer, amazing attitude all wrapped up in being a giant cnut.
I'd strongly disagree with you here. He is imo both excellent in area 1 and 3 by your definition.
In terms of raw defending ability (your area 1) Ramos has everything. Strong, fast (was faster some years ago, but you're assessing his entire career), fantastic tacklings, great anticipation - this guy has everything bar the odd moment (not often, but often prominently) when he loses his cool leading to rash decisions. I also think you've failed to argue this point adequately by only stating that Ramos and Pepe are better or Godin, without pointing out why. Godin for example is probably stronger mentally (on a high level) but for example lacks pace and is weaker 1v1, he just looks like an equal to Ramos because he is defending in a well organized, deep sitting defensive unit with Atlético. Madrid is nothing like that and since it's a team game it's clearly a mistake to not consider that.
In terms of ball handling (your area 3) I again don't see who is better than him. Pique is equal in that aspect, I agree but Ramos is a top notch footballer. Madrid almost never punt the ball, they play out of the back at times suicide-mission style and Ramos is a vital part in that. Obviously he's not doing key passes and the like but that's not what is needed. Ramos even played in midfield for a couple of games under Ancelotti.
I would rate Ramos in all the aspects of your assessment in the top branch. And imo there is no comparsion whatsoever between Ramos and Godin, Varane or Umtiti. Only guy close to him in that list is Pique.
Breaks Salah
All of those saying that he’s an average defender are absolutely nuts. All you have to do is imagine he played for us, and we’ll see those opinions quickly change.
Tremendous player but even bigger cnut. I would do anything to have him at United mind.
I want this guy in our team so bad.
You serious mate?
He is probably the one player that would make me give back my membership card if we signed him
What a dirty feck. He knew exactly he was doing with Salah. The dirtiest player in football.
He’s a dirty cnut, if he did that to our best player in a CL final we’d be livid. Undeniably world class though.
Honestly, I'm a Liverpool fan and I agree with him...
He's a cnut, but if he's your cnut, you'd love him.
What the feck are you talking about?! He did nothing wrong, it wasn’t even a free-kick. Salah dragged Ramos’s hand - not the other way around.
He's a dirty cnut, but the outrage over the Salah thing is a bit much. He meant to foul him, he couldn't have planned to take his shoulder out. He's a cnut, not a jujitsu genius.
He got phsycial and did what any cb would do. Best in the world in his position for a reason.
Dude's a winner. He isn't going out there wanting to be liked.
Yep, being a cnut is part of being a winner. If he earns a CL medal, I doubt he will give a shit about the criticism.
He wanted to foul Salah but didn't mean to injure him btw, so doesn't need to be crucified for that. Some players have done worse.
Can’t stand him. So I’ll disciplined. But tonight he might have done a great job for the cause.
Best CB of this generation, along with Chiellini. I fecking love the guy so much.
Like Ander Herrera, a Jose Mourinho player 
He hasn’t deliberately injured him. The guy is a warrior and makes his presence known, the injury occurred because of the way they fell not because the challenge was dangerous.