Shadow Striker - New Formation

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
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Some months ago I had a very interesting discussion with @Devil may care regarding the forward line. I thought that Martial and Rashford and we should focus on them as Ibra’s successor. Devie rebutted that such a thing is unrealistic as Mou loves his big target man upfront. I think he had a valid point on that.

Which made me think, how can take the best out of our team?

We currently have 3 top quality players whose role need to be sorted

a- Pogba. The most expensive CM in the world. He’s an incredible talent but for some reason or another hasn’t fully settled at United. Pogba best games with Juventus came as a left sided midfielder in a 3 men midfield. The Frenchman lacks defensive discipline to play in a 2 men role and doesn’t score enough goals to play as a no 10

b- Martial. We all know he’s talented. However he’s been struggling as a LW under the Mou regime. Similarly to Pogba his talent is incredible. He’s pacey, he’s technically gifted and if developed correctly he can become a new Henry. However he simply do not score enough goals for us to lead the line

c- Rashford. He adapted better to Mou’s tactics then Martial did. However as Lou Macari said yesterday he doesn’t score enough goals to lead the line. At least for the time being

So how can we fit most of our players in while making sure that we keep scoring goals? Here’s my idea ie a 3-4-1-2 system.

-----------GK-----------

-----CB------CB------

WB------Anc-----Wb

------B2B-----MCL------

------------AMC------ ---

----------------Shadow Striker-

---------Stk-----------------------


GK: No discussions necessary


DC: We would need 2 top quality ‘Vidic/Stam’ type of defenders who are able to hold the fort if they end up outnumbered. Bailly can cover 1 of the roles however I do believe we would need another CB. Id also keep Smalling as he’s great for aerial cover.


ANC: He needs to feel comfortably both in Def and Midfield. Blind can do the job if needed, although an upgrade is highly desirable (Dier?)


WBs: We would have a 3 men defence when defending, which means we should be having adequate cover in terms of crosses. That means that our wingbacks would be similar to defensive minded wingers who would hug the touchline rather than Fullbacks.


B2B- Herrera would be perfect for the job. However I would add Kessie to the team as he’s more suited for the ‘Vidal’ role


MCL- Pogba would be perfect in a more libero role in this system. He’ll spend less time defending that mean that he can focus on attacking more. Meanwhile having an AMC at his side+ 2 strikers means that he can slot inside the opponent’s defence unnoticed, which would be great considering his powerful shot, his size and his dribbling skills.

AMC: This player will be the brain in our team. He needs to be able to work his magic while heavily marked and still score his share of goals. This player must be wise enough to analyse the game, search for weaknesses and then hit where it hurts. If let’s say we’re playing Sunderland and Mcnair is playing then he should stay in the middle were strength in numbers, should sent their defence in chaos. If we’re playing Middlesbrough and there’s Fabio then he should move on the right, leaving Pogba as CM. He must also act as a leader on the pitch ie guiding the shadow striker where to play and do the damage.

Shadow striker- That is the role where I see Martial/Rashford in. Most of the pressure to score goals will be on the STK, which means, that they should be pockets of space for them to act. Rashford/Martial will become the main man in quick counters were their pace would be too much to handle. If we’re playing against a team whose got a particularly slow FB then they might consider moving to that flank for a big chunk of the game.

STK: We would need someone like Harry Kane upfront ie a person whose strong, whose great in air and can score loads of goals.

What do you think?
 
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I would love us having a 4-3-3 formation with shaw as lb, Bailey as cb along with maybe rojo or smalling or a new interceptor kind of a defender with valencia or a new signing as right back. In the midfield ad op said, would love to see pogba play on the left of 3 men midfield, maybe herrera or blind on the right side of it and probably fellaini or maybe even eric dier. However for top 3, i would love to play marcus through the right, martial/mikhi up front and probably go for neymar to play on the left. But at the same price if we get lukaku then put martial/mikhi on the left and lukaku up top. So basically we need to buy a top target man or wide winger, a cdm and a good rb.
 
I'd love to play 4-4-2.

Midfield:

Herrera Carrick Pogba Mkhi

This would morph into a 4-3-1-2 with Mkhi pushing up to a AMC/Wide position and Pogba roaming the left channels and centre.
 
I genuinly think Mourinho is looking at Atletico Madrid. Next season we are going to play similar to how they play. And their style of football is really suited to PML.

6 months ago Mourinho sounded confident about Zlatan playing for us next year but recently I've felt as if Mourinho don't want him next season. The idea about getting Zlatan was to have Rooney behind him as number 10. But since that failed I think Mourinho is going to get griezmann and play him with rashford up front.
 
Okay, my take on things.

I propose a 3-5-2 that would function as follows, assuming we face a 4-2-3-1

Without the ball:

a6Nsq6D.jpg


This would ideally work in a zonal marking method - your left-sided and right-sided CBs can either pick up an opposition winger or full-back in an overload situation 2v1 against your own full-back, or can pick up the opposition no. 10 or second striker if our DM loses him. Your central CB always man-marks the opposition striker. Assuming that only one opposition full-back pushes forward to cause an overload at a time (so as not to be vulnerable to the counter-attack) you shouldn't encounter a situation with overload down both flanks. If an opposition DM pushes up, your DM picks him up and leaves the CBs to deal with the opposition no. 10 and striker. That might look like a 4v3 against you, with four attackers vs three CBs, but you'd then have a CM free up the pitch (as your DM is picking up their runner, not your CM) and the opposition full-back on your free CM's side would need to pick him up. That means you have a full-back on one side who is spare, as his man to mark is picking up your free CM, so you have 4v4 as he joins your three CBs. If you have one of your full-backs caught out of position up the pitch and you're being counter-attacked, you'd ideally have a DM who is capable of dropping into the back line and the wider CB's should also be capable of playing as a full-back.

With the ball:

2z0d5MF.jpg


A slight mis-representation of actual play in that image, as you wouldn't want to have both your full-backs so far forward at the same time (due to counter-attack, as stated above) but it's a more easily digestible way of understanding the broader concept here. Your CMs would act as the "wingers" in terms of causing overload against the opposition full-backs. You'd then have one opposition winger withdraw to help their full-back out. You'd have your DM step up to provide midfield support. The opponent's no. 10 would likely be a lot deeper and providing more defensive support to his team, which means that your CB would only need to step forward if your DM is pushed up. The end result is that it leaves you 4v4 at the back, which is no different to how a four at the back formation would be against an opponent playing either 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 in that situation.

Roles:

Your wider CB's are ideally players who can also operate to some degree at full-back - both Rojo and Bailly can, as can Jones and Blind. Your central CB should ideally be someone who can also push up into a DM position and be an accomplished ball-player, Blind can do this job and outside of United you'd look at players like David Luiz, Mascherano, Eric Dier. Your DM ideally would be someone who can drop into the back line and defend, as well as being able to pass the ball. The DM and central CB roles are somewhat interchangeable in that aspect, but you'd still play (for example) Blind at CB and Carrick at DM rather than the other way around, even though both players can fulfill both roles.

Your full-backs/wing-backs don't need to be of the Chelsea mold whereby they also act as a goal threat, and they don't need to be used as Guardiola likes to use his, whereby they tuck into CM. It's a pretty standard up and down wide role, with more emphasis on supporting all across the pitch - causing overload when going forward, and marking the opposition wide attackers in defence. They are your main wide threat and should stay wide.

Your two CMs need to be mobile, capable of pushing wider when required, and able to tackle and win the ball back. Herrera and Pogba tick those boxes for us. They would also need to be able to pass forward to initiate counter-attacks. The defensive aspect of the role is more around winning possession back, pressing and marking opposition midfielders. Your DM would primarily be picking up any opposition no. 10 or striker, so they aren't a last line of defence in front of your CBs. In the case of Pogba in particular, this gives him more license to push forward. As he's also playing with a a DM and another CM, this allows him to pick up his "left of a three" preferred position more often. Fellaini, for me, is still a decent physical threat to have on the bench for joining the attack and trying to win the ball back, but ideally we'd want to strengthen our substitute options in this area. We have been linked with the likes of Kessie, Matuidi and Bakayoko and this is where I would see them operating in this lineup. Mobile, capable passers and tacklers, but not the destroyer-in-chief. If you wanted to replace Herrera in the starting lineup and use him as the bench option, i'd look at the likes of Veratti, Vidal, Nainggolan.

Your attackers need to be pacy. This is the key. They should also be able to play out wide, more so that they can drag opposition CB's out of position and create space. Any space this movement creates could be filled by Pogba arriving late, and with less defensive responsibility on him, he'd be free to do that. Working in a two means that the strikers won't be too isolated and shouldn't need to hold the ball up as much as a lone striker would, which means someone like Lukaku or Zlatan wouldn't be required, though a big man still works well in a two. Players like Kane and Griezmann have good passing to allow them to play supporting team-mates into space. Martial, Rashford and Mbappe have the pace required to beat the defensive line.

The glaring omission:

There's no wingers, or a no. 10. For the likes of Mkhitaryan, Mata and Lingard, they would either have to play as attacking CM's or as a striker, and arguably from the bench or in a rotation system, rather than as a starter. For me, you'd have them all vying for Pogba's spot in the first instance. Herrera is defensively responsible enough, especially when operating with a DM in the team too, that any license for Pogba to attack more often would translate well to those three players, who are all not as good as Pogba in the tackle. Mkhitaryan and Lingard could also fill in for one of the strikers as they have the required pace. Two strikers pressing the opposition CBs definitely suits this system more than playing with a no. 10 would, but in games where you expect minimal attacking threat from the opposition or for you to dominate possession of the ball, you could play a no. 10 instead of the DM.
 
I expect something similar to what was done at Madrid, the team will play a base formation of 4-2-3-1 against opposition where Mou expects to dominate possession and 4-3-3 against a stronger midfield.

In 4-2-3-1:
Valencia----Bailly---CB/Rojo---Shaw/LB
--------------DM----Pogba----------------
----Mikhi--------AM--------Rashford------
------------------CF-------------------------
When attacking, one full back advance to the midfield, while the other joins the attack. Pogba pushes forward towards the middle while Rashford (in the CR role) moves closer to the box like a second striker.

In 4-3-3:
Valencia----Bailly---CB/Rojo---Shaw/LB
-------------------DM---------------------
---------Herrera---------Pogba-----------
--AM/Mikhi-------------------Rashford----
-------------------CF------------------------
In the 4-3-3, it would be more of counter attacking with an additional ball winner added in midfield. Herrera comes in for one of the attacking four, typically Mikhi or AM (but depending more on the tactics and personnel). More defensive and/or pacy players would get preference.

Fellaini, Herrera and Blind would be almost guaranteed spots on the bench because of their versatility.
 
TehRed said:
Okay, my take on things.

I propose a 3-5-2 that would function as follows, assuming we face a 4-2-3-1

Without the ball:

a6Nsq6D.jpg


This would ideally work in a zonal marking method - your left-sided and right-sided CBs can either pick up an opposition winger or full-back in an overload situation 2v1 against your own full-back, or can pick up the opposition no. 10 or second striker if our DM loses him. Your central CB always man-marks the opposition striker. Assuming that only one opposition full-back pushes forward to cause an overload at a time (so as not to be vulnerable to the counter-attack) you shouldn't encounter a situation with overload down both flanks. If an opposition DM pushes up, your DM picks him up and leaves the CBs to deal with the opposition no. 10 and striker. That might look like a 4v3 against you, with four attackers vs three CBs, but you'd then have a CM free up the pitch (as your DM is picking up their runner, not your CM) and the opposition full-back on your free CM's side would need to pick him up. That means you have a full-back on one side who is spare, as his man to mark is picking up your free CM, so you have 4v4 as he joins your three CBs. If you have one of your full-backs caught out of position up the pitch and you're being counter-attacked, you'd ideally have a DM who is capable of dropping into the back line and the wider CB's should also be capable of playing as a full-back.

With the ball:

2z0d5MF.jpg


A slight mis-representation of actual play in that image, as you wouldn't want to have both your full-backs so far forward at the same time (due to counter-attack, as stated above) but it's a more easily digestible way of understanding the broader concept here. Your CMs would act as the "wingers" in terms of causing overload against the opposition full-backs. You'd then have one opposition winger withdraw to help their full-back out. You'd have your DM step up to provide midfield support. The opponent's no. 10 would likely be a lot deeper and providing more defensive support to his team, which means that your CB would only need to step forward if your DM is pushed up. The end result is that it leaves you 4v4 at the back, which is no different to how a four at the back formation would be against an opponent playing either 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 in that situation.

Roles:

Your wider CB's are ideally players who can also operate to some degree at full-back - both Rojo and Bailly can, as can Jones and Blind. Your central CB should ideally be someone who can also push up into a DM position and be an accomplished ball-player, Blind can do this job and outside of United you'd look at players like David Luiz, Mascherano, Eric Dier. Your DM ideally would be someone who can drop into the back line and defend, as well as being able to pass the ball. The DM and central CB roles are somewhat interchangeable in that aspect, but you'd still play (for example) Blind at CB and Carrick at DM rather than the other way around, even though both players can fulfill both roles.

Your full-backs/wing-backs don't need to be of the Chelsea mold whereby they also act as a goal threat, and they don't need to be used as Guardiola likes to use his, whereby they tuck into CM. It's a pretty standard up and down wide role, with more emphasis on supporting all across the pitch - causing overload when going forward, and marking the opposition wide attackers in defence. They are your main wide threat and should stay wide.

Your two CMs need to be mobile, capable of pushing wider when required, and able to tackle and win the ball back. Herrera and Pogba tick those boxes for us. They would also need to be able to pass forward to initiate counter-attacks. The defensive aspect of the role is more around winning possession back, pressing and marking opposition midfielders. Your DM would primarily be picking up any opposition no. 10 or striker, so they aren't a last line of defence in front of your CBs. In the case of Pogba in particular, this gives him more license to push forward. As he's also playing with a a DM and another CM, this allows him to pick up his "left of a three" preferred position more often. Fellaini, for me, is still a decent physical threat to have on the bench for joining the attack and trying to win the ball back, but ideally we'd want to strengthen our substitute options in this area. We have been linked with the likes of Kessie, Matuidi and Bakayoko and this is where I would see them operating in this lineup. Mobile, capable passers and tacklers, but not the destroyer-in-chief. If you wanted to replace Herrera in the starting lineup and use him as the bench option, i'd look at the likes of Veratti, Vidal, Nainggolan.

Your attackers need to be pacy. This is the key. They should also be able to play out wide, more so that they can drag opposition CB's out of position and create space. Any space this movement creates could be filled by Pogba arriving late, and with less defensive responsibility on him, he'd be free to do that. Working in a two means that the strikers won't be too isolated and shouldn't need to hold the ball up as much as a lone striker would, which means someone like Lukaku or Zlatan wouldn't be required, though a big man still works well in a two. Players like Kane and Griezmann have good passing to allow them to play supporting team-mates into space. Martial, Rashford and Mbappe have the pace required to beat the defensive line.

The glaring omission:

There's no wingers, or a no. 10. For the likes of Mkhitaryan, Mata and Lingard, they would either have to play as attacking CM's or as a striker, and arguably from the bench or in a rotation system, rather than as a starter. For me, you'd have them all vying for Pogba's spot in the first instance. Herrera is defensively responsible enough, especially when operating with a DM in the team too, that any license for Pogba to attack more often would translate well to those three players, who are all not as good as Pogba in the tackle. Mkhitaryan and Lingard could also fill in for one of the strikers as they have the required pace. Two strikers pressing the opposition CBs definitely suits this system more than playing with a no. 10 would, but in games where you expect minimal attacking threat from the opposition or for you to dominate possession of the ball, you could play a no. 10 instead of the DM.
Click to expand...

I really like this idea and kudos on putting a lot of time into the above. I am dubious if Jose will ever truly play with two strikers though.

I agree with the need to buy Fabinho though, I really rate him
 
Martial seems to be more of a wing forward in 4-3-3 rather than LW in 4-2-3-1 formation. If you want to play both Pogba to his maximum then you should go for the 4-3-3 , bring a DMF , a CF and and a Right wing forward too. See if we get Griezmann ( and imo it's absolute must and will solve many of our problems in offense )

De Gea
Valencia - Bailly - Rojo - ( LB )
( DMF)
Herrera - Pogba
( RW) - ( Griezmann ) - Martial
​
That's 4 signings already required because neither players we had in this position will fill the requirements except for Rashford at CF but he's too young to be our main striker imo , he should continue as a sub like this year in both CF and LW .

We don't know what will Shaw do and neither Carriak at his age nor Fellaini can fill the DMF role effectively. Mikhi and Mata are both number 10 and we should stop using them as wings as it's not working. They may play one or 2 good games but never ask for consistency with them on the wing. They'll be reduced to bench players if we want to push forward later on in the game. Griezmann is at his best as a number 9 or 9.5 imo and much better than the right wing contrary to what some people think.

This is probably the best formation that will get maximum of Pogba and Griezmann and can give some hope of revival to Martial , but I doubt we'll go for it. It'll be probable be 4-2-3-1 again and with this we should shape as :

De Gea
Valencia - Bailly - Rojo - ( LB )
Herrera - Pogba
( RW) - ( Griezmann ) / Mikhi - ( LW)
( CF ) / ( Griezmann )​

Basically a whole new attack yes ! We'll have to sacrifice the DMF signing and count on Herrera because of the too much money invested in the attack. Don't see Martial succeeding in 4-2-3-1 formation so we'll need a new LW that can stay on the flank as Jose wants. A new RW for the same reasons previously mentioned , a CF because we can't enter a season with only Rashford and Griezmann to be our 9.5 or 10 in this formation . We can sacrifice buying a new striker and play as Mikhi for number 10 and Griezmann as a striker with Rashford his sub which will work too but will need Mikhi to up his game much more than this season.

We don't know what Jose wants , though , and we may not even be able to grap Griezmann in summer but I think the 4-3-3 will be of less cost than what we'll have to spend on the formation but I prefer the 4-2-3-1 formation more , because I don't trust Martial much to remain in the club with Jose's opinion on his attitude.
 
I think a 442 diamond would be the formation to bring out the best in our players as everyone can play in their favored positions.

De Gea
Valencia Bailly Rojo Shaw
Carrick
Herrera - - - Pogba
Mkhi
Zlatan - - Rashford
​
Next season, we can sign a few players to make this even better. We can either sign a DM and play Herrera in a b2b role or let Herrera play DM and sign someone like Isco or Naby Keita. Sign Griezmann to replace Zlatan. Our full backs will have to really contribute in the attack for this to work. So players like Mendy and Semedo might also be targets.

De Gea
Valencia Bailly Rojo Shaw
Herrera
CM - - - Pogba
Mkhi
Griezmann - - Rashford
​
 
Sounds like a Steve Bruce novel.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
I expect something similar to what was done at Madrid, the team will play a base formation of 4-2-3-1 against opposition where Mou expects to dominate possession and 4-3-3 against a stronger midfield.

In 4-2-3-1:
Valencia----Bailly---CB/Rojo---Shaw/LB
--------------DM----Pogba----------------
----Mikhi--------AM--------Rashford------
------------------CF-------------------------
When attacking, one full back advance to the midfield, while the other joins the attack. Pogba pushes forward towards the middle while Rashford (in the CR role) moves closer to the box like a second striker.

In 4-3-3:
Valencia----Bailly---CB/Rojo---Shaw/LB
-------------------DM---------------------
---------Herrera---------Pogba-----------
--AM/Mikhi-------------------Rashford----
-------------------CF------------------------
In the 4-3-3, it would be more of counter attacking with an additional ball winner added in midfield. Herrera comes in for one of the attacking four, typically Mikhi or AM (but depending more on the tactics and personnel). More defensive and/or pacy players would get preference.

Fellaini, Herrera and Blind would be almost guaranteed spots on the bench because of their versatility.
Click to expand...

I think this is still likeliest. A summer signing season of:
1. Griezmann (if CL, if not maybe Douglas Costa or Mertens)
2. DM or CM (Herrera might be his 6)- Fabinho, Kessie, whoever
3. LB to challenge Shaw or an LCB to challenge Rojo
4. Ibra stays or we sign a physical 9, either a big signing like Belotti or Lukaku or someone cheaper for cover like when Mourinho used to bring in someone like Demba Ba or whoever, to be an option when Rashford is resting. No idea who this would be.
5. Pereira returning to fight with/alternate with Fellaini to be cover for Pogba and Herrera as the most attacking of CMs in a 4-3-3

and we'd have the squad needed to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 pretty comfortably.
 
Most of these formations seem to be motivated by the wish to cover for our perceived lack of natural wide players. So instead of of using 1-2 of martial/Micki/Rash/Mata out wide, we just pretend that we don’t need wide players or that our fullbacks are going to do the job.

That is not really how it works so. Even Atletico have a natural wide man with YFC.

A back 3 allows the wing-backs to go further forward, but Chelsea still have Hazard, Juve have Cuadrado, Barca have Neymar (sometimes play a back3), City have Sterling/Sane/KdB and the list goes on and on and on.

My point is that regardless of the formation almost all teams have attacking players that operate comfortably in wide areas. No shuffling around on the team-sheet will change that. We have to decide if we trust our players to do this job and need new players if we don’t.
 
Yes I think a dynamic front two is the way forward. Possibly even the 'split striker' system we have seen some teams use with the front players starting attacks in the wide positions.


------------------Dave
Valencia--Bailly----Rojo-----Shaw
----------------NEW
--------Herrera------Pogba
-------------Mata/Mkhi
---Griezman------------Rashford/Martial

The midfield diamond gets the best out of Pogba, Herrera and Mata. Valencia and Shaw provide the width. And this system allows us to give Rashford and Martial regular games as striker without the pressure of making them the sole focal point of the attack.

This also means we can apply a high press more effectively with more energy and pace up the pitch.
 
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PedroMendez said:
Most of these formations seem to be motivated by the wish to cover for our perceived lack of natural wide players. So instead of of using 1-2 of martial/Micki/Rash/Mata out wide, we just pretend that we don’t need wide players or that our fullbacks are going to do the job.

That is not really how it works so. Even Atletico have a natural wide man with YFC.

A back 3 allows the wing-backs to go further forward, but Chelsea still have Hazard, Juve have Cuadrado, Barca have Neymar (sometimes play a back3), City have Sterling/Sane/KdB and the list goes on and on and on.

My point is that regardless of the formation almost all teams have attacking players that operate comfortably in wide areas. No shuffling around on the team-sheet will change that. We have to decide if we trust our players to do this job and need new players if we don’t.
Click to expand...

I like pace too, but Atletico were just as good with Koke and Saul on the wings and Tiago and Gabi in the middle, for instance. I think the issue is that unless we want to play Pogba in 3 man midfield and not play wingers, the only other real option is a diamond and few want to see us play that way.
 
NoPace said:
I like pace too, but Atletico were just as good with Koke and Saul on the wings and Tiago and Gabi in the middle, for instance. I think the issue is that unless we want to play Pogba in 3 man midfield and not play wingers, the only other real option is a diamond and few want to see us play that way.
Click to expand...

It is not primarily about pace, but about the ability to take on players in 1v1s. It is true that Atletico played without any winger for some time, but it would be very difficult to copy their approach. Off the top of my head I am not entirely sure which top team used a diamond successfully during the last 10 years. Milan didn't use wingers with their x-mas tree formation when winning the CL.
I'd also add, that many of the teams that are not using winger/wide man are often not the most exciting teams when it comes to playing attacking football. Be careful what you wish for.
 
I like this thread.

I prefer to read many theories about tactics instead of getting threads like:

- "SAF ---> Please come back and don't forget to bring Best and Law!', or
- 'I feel so bad since our last EPL title'
 
We can and probably should do a 4312 type formation, with the front 3 floating around. Herrer and pogba obviously 2 of the 3 mids, the other is fellaini or carrick or someone new.

Mkhitaryan, rashford and martial as the front 3. None are probably ready to lead the line, but as a 2 they can work very well and feed off each other and make runs. Even if we sign griezmann, he slots right in there as hes not a lone striker either. Helps provide more goals too playing with 2 up top.
 
I guess Shadow striker means Support Striker (SS)

Yeah, Martial could play as a SS.

If you want a system with a CF+SS, it would mean 3-5-2 or 4-4-2.

Unfortunately, United hasn't the players (side-midfielders like Beckham/Giggs, offensive wing-back or B2B pretty versatile) to adopt a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2 system
 
A 352 could work until the end of the season against the big teams, with the SS being Martial.

De Gea
Bailly Blind Darmian
Valencia Herrera Fellaini Pogba Young
Martial
Rashford

Now that Martial is in form I would love to see a duo of Rashford-Martial upfront with Martial playing slightly deeper, just like Griezmann would. I think his energy and buzz in the centre is perfect for that position and he doesn't have to make so many off the ball runs which is his clear weakness.

But for the smaller teams I guess we won't adopt a second striker, just like today against Burnely. Our best three up top is clearly

Martial-Rashford-Mkhitaryan.
 
Too many contenders in here for a novel writing contest

My fursr question to the OP is where does he think we get a stam/vidic type
 
Downcast said:
Unfortunately, United hasn't the players (side-midfielders like Beckham/Giggs, offensive wing-back or B2B pretty versatile) to adopt a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2 system
Click to expand...

I'd actually argue that with our bunch of players, 352 is the perfect formation for our players. Bring in a CB, CM and ST and it'd be complete.

Griezmann, Rashford and Martial as the strikers gives a lot of pace and doesn't waste potential out on the wings.
a midfield trio of lets say, Pogba - Fabinho - Herrera would be solid and I think Valencia is almost the ideal player you'd want in a 352. Shaw, depends on his fitness and stuff, but a 352 would fit more players into their natural positions than we do with this 4231 stuff
 
Igor Drefljak said:
I'd actually argue that with our bunch of players, 352 is the perfect formation for our players. Bring in a CB, CM and ST and it'd be complete.

Griezmann, Rashford and Martial as the strikers gives a lot of pace and doesn't waste potential out on the wings.
a midfield trio of lets say, Pogba - Fabinho - Herrera would be solid and I think Valencia is almost the ideal player you'd want in a 352. Shaw, depends on his fitness and stuff, but a 352 would fit more players into their natural positions than we do with this 4231 stuff
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But in big games a 352 more or less turns a 532 against posession based sides with a 4 man defense.
 
I don't see why this has to be turned into a philosophical question. Imho Pogba clearly needs two midfielders to complement him, one DLP who tends to stay back during attacks and a hard working b2b midfielder who is willing to close gaps. And that's it. If you get such a midfield to work out then you get plenty of stability, cohesion and creativity and you shouldn't have problems fielding a fluid front three between Martial, Rashford, Mkhtiaryan, Mata and maybe a more conventional striker, because set attacking roles and positions become a bit less important if you have no trouble transitioning the ball quickl and cleanly through midfield.
 
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