Shinji Kagawa - Dortmund Player

[Mad Winger]

Yeah I think he could play really well there, but unfortunately for him Herrera just offers us more as the #8, and mata seems perfect for the #10 role in Van Gaal's system. Kagawa would still get plenty of games pretty much as first choice player to come in for anyone in midfield or attack, but I don't think he'll be a starter, and I'm not sure if he'd be content with just being a squad player. He's an excellent player and could go be a key player at other top teams, just at united I don't think he'll ever be much more then a sub. Unless we switch to a 4-3-3 and use him on the wing but he doesn't strike me as van Gaal's type of wide player.

Yeah, it's hard to say what will happen. The Mata signing has made things hard for Kagawa.

I reckon he could fight his way into the team, or maybe force Van Gaal to change formation. Depending on who we sign, I can definitely see him play on the wing or as a second striker, even under Van Gaal. There's also no way Herrera, Mata, Rooney and RVP are gonna stay away from injuries all season. Especially the latter two. There's also 3 subs per game, so the chance of coming on as a sub consistently is pretty high.

All in all, I think Kagawa should stay one more season regardless. He has a much higher possibility of not only making the first team, but also developing as a player, now that Moyes has been replaced by Van Gaal.

 

[Lane]

--------------- DDG --------------
----- Jones - Smalling - Evans -----
Valencia - Herrera - Kagawa - Shaw
--------------- Mata -------------
---------- Rooney - RVP ----------

We'll win every game 5-3

Apart from games against a top oppositions like Chelsea, City etc. We will lose them like 5-1.

 

[Lane]

In order to be a good squad player and a good sub, you need to be consistent and ready to perform from a get-go. The way i see it, Kagawa is not a player who can do that.

 

[Cassidy]

“When you see Mata or Herrera playing, and Kagawa, who are the best passers, but everything went wrong and it is the air, I believe."

I think its safe to say LVG rates Kagawa

 

[RedStarUnited]

“When you see Mata or Herrera playing, and Kagawa, who are the best passers, but everything went wrong and it is the air, I believe."

I think its safe to say LVG rates Kagawa

Was just going to say that.

 

[Sam]

I just don't see him as a central midfielder. I wish we'd just play him in his best position and see how he does.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yeah, it's hard to say what will happen. The Mata signing has made things hard for Kagawa.

I reckon he could fight his way into the team, or maybe force Van Gaal to change formation. Depending on who we sign, I can definitely see him play on the wing or as a second striker, even under Van Gaal. There's also no way Herrera, Mata, Rooney and RVP are gonna stay away from injuries all season. Especially the latter two. There's also 3 subs per game, so the chance of coming on as a sub consistently is pretty high.

All in all, I think Kagawa should stay one more season regardless. He has a much higher possibility of not only making the first team, but also developing as a player, now that Moyes has been replaced by Van Gaal.

Yeah personally I think he suits van Gaal's stays team perfectly, just isn't as good as Mata who was a bit of an unnecessary signing at the time considering our options. Glad we have him, but it does leave kagawa on the bench most likely. If he's fine with being the first back up for midfield and the attacking positions, then fine, I just think he'd rather go somewhere where he'd be first choice but still compete for trophies. Great to have as a bench option though.

 

[Devil may care]

I'd be shocked if LvG played him and Mata in a starting line-up in this system in the PL, we'd get run through. Kagawa and Januzaj will compete as Mata's understudy in this system.

 

[mancan92]

Happy to hear van gaal mention him. He definitely has qualities van gaal believes are useful.

I actually think people will be surprised how much van gaal will use him.

 

[dsch]

I definitely agree we shouldnt be selling him. I dont think he is right for a 2 man midfield against any sort of reasonable opposition however. He should get enough gametime out wide or as a #10, maybe the occasional game in CM against weaker opponents.

Thing with Kagawa is he needs players similar to him to link up with - its no good saying "well he is an attacking player so stick Carrick with him" as the two just wont click the way Kagawa will with a Herrera, Mata or Cleverley - he needs players around him who can play the same

I don't think we'll be seeing an old-fashioned midfield two for a good while at United, and there are lots of ways to play the three in midfield. You can go with two sitters and a 10, or a more dynamic, rotating configuration: the deepest player doesn't always have to be the most static.

 

[matherto]

Kagawa could definitely work in the Robben role alongside Van Persie. He's not especially quick at a filt sprint but he's quick on his feet and quick witted too.

 

[Walrus]

I don't think we'll be seeing an old-fashioned midfield two for a good while at United, and there are lots of ways to play the three in midfield. You can go with two sitters and a 10, or a more dynamic, rotating configuration: the deepest player doesn't always have to be the most static.

Dunno, if we are playing 3-5-2 then it's a midfield pair with a #10 - that formation requires good all round balanced CMs.

 

[villain]

I honestly think a midfield of Herrera, Kagawa and someone like Strootman/Vidal would work well with Mata, RVP and Rooney/Welbeck ahead of them.

Right now we don't have the personnel to carry it off, but I think it has potential.

 

[Empire]

I honestly think a midfield of Herrera, Kagawa and someone like Strootman/Vidal would work well with Mata, RVP and Rooney/Welbeck ahead of them.

Right now we don't have the personnel to carry it off, but I think it has potential.

Do you mean Herrera / Kagawa and Strootman / Vidal?

I'm not sure how you could fit Herrera, Kagawa, Strootman / Vidal, Mata, RVP and Rooney / Welbeck in one team.

 

[Empire]

It's a dilemma with him.

He is simply too good to sell if he does not want to leave.

I would see what Hernandez wants to do, if he wants to leave I would let him. And then I would use Januzaj as one of the four strikers in the 3-5-2 with Kagawa second choice to Mata.

His best moments against Roma came when he was further up the pitch.

 

[SirAF]

He's a van Gaal player alright - quick feet, technique and a good passer. I'll be interested to see where LvG will end up fitting him in.

 

[Mad Winger]

Add a goal/assist, and that's the Kagawa we all want to see

 

[Man of Leisure]

Add a goal/assist, and that's the Kagawa we all want to see

Wish he'd get a run out with Rooney, Mata and Herrera. Guarantee there'd be some slick interplay. Tough to see what he's capable of when he's out there with the kids and Young.

 

[The Mitcher]

Add a goal/assist, and that's the Kagawa we all want to see

I think it'll take more than one to impress us.

 

[caid]

Re the whole cm thing.
Didn't klopp say he was a cm when he was giving out about moyes / ferguson 'misusing' him.

I'd be happy with him starting in midfield if we had a more suitable partner to throw him next to
but i dont think we really do.
Maybe fletcher.
Defensively i'd be wary of throwing him next to carrick as neither are particularly good at putting pressure on the ball,
they're both more about cutting out passes and interceptions really.
Think you'd need to throw him next to a carvalho / de jong type of player to really make it work personally.

Still, great cover.

 

[Mad Winger]

I think it'll take more than one to impress us.

You're hard to impress then. He did everything right except scoring/assisting.

 

[caid]

You're hard to impress then. He did everything right except scoring/assisting.

Im guessing he thought you meant over a season instead of in the game.

 

[Juan't Mata]

Kagawa could definitely work in the Robben role alongside Van Persie. He's not especially quick at a filt sprint but he's quick on his feet and quick witted too.

Yeah was thinking about that today. If RVP or Rooney was injured, Januzaj or Kagawa floating about as one of the front two, with Mata behind and Herrera in midfield could be very hard to defend against.

 

[BD]

Yeah was thinking about that today. If RVP or Rooney was injured, Januzaj or Kagawa floating about as one of the front two, with Mata behind and Herrera in midfield could be very hard to defend against.

Kagawa is too light and not even close to bring fast enough to play the 'Robben' role. Januzaj could do it however.

 

[Empire]

- - - - - Hererra
Mata - - - - - - - - Kagawa
- - - - - Rooney
- - - -- - -
-----------RVP

Mata drops deeper to iniesta zones.

Rooney drops off RVP a bit so he can come back to help defensively but offensively would move towards the box.

Would like to see it tried for just one game, so Herrera performs the number 6 role but just in front are Kagawa and Mata, Rooney is in front of them but will come back to defend so RVP is left alone.

5 at the back as per usual.

Doubt it will work but would be nice in a pre-season game against a Roma type opponent.

It's a 5-4-1 or 5-3-1-1

Defensively we would have to press collectively as a team to win the ball back.

 

[Glanville95]

It will be interesting to see how van Gaal utilises Kagawa is he continues with the 3-5-2. I'm not so convinced that he will be fighting with Mata and Januzaj for just the one starting berth behind the forwards, as himself and Januzaj are two of our most technically-gifted players and players I see LVG appreciating more than most.

I foresee a straight battle between Mata and Kagawa however behind the forward, but I reckon Januzaj would be used as one of the front two. The latter has played as a #9 for the U21's and it should allow sufficient gametime for the trio, taking into consideration injuries, while offering more balance in the squad if we have players for more or less set positions.

It's a shame we aren't likely to see him alongside Mata very often, if at all, as the two created a great understanding since Mata joined and it took our fluidity and speed of play up a notch. It's unlikely that Kagawa will play as a CM, as we don't have a suitable enough partner and his defensive game is too lacking, but he did impress against Roma and is superior than Mata - controversial opinion I know - at dropping deep, creating a passing option and orchestrating play in the middle third, but Mata is obviously far, far more effective.

 

[Lane]

It will be interesting to see how van Gaal utilises Kagawa is he continues with the 3-5-2. I'm not so convinced that he will be fighting with Mata and Januzaj for just the one starting berth behind the forwards, as himself and Januzaj are two of our most technically-gifted players and players I see LVG appreciating more than most.

I foresee a straight battle between Mata and Kagawa however behind the forward, but I reckon Januzaj would be used as one of the front two. The latter has played as a #9 for the U21's and it should allow sufficient gametime for the trio, taking into consideration injuries, while offering more balance in the squad if we have players for more or less set positions.

It's a shame we aren't likely to see him alongside Mata very often, if at all, as the two created a great understanding since Mata joined and it took our fluidity and speed of play up a notch. It's unlikely that Kagawa will play as a CM, as we don't have a suitable enough partner and his defensive game is too lacking, but he did impress against Roma and is superior than Mata - controversial opinion I know - at dropping deep, creating a passing option and orchestrating play in the middle third, but Mata is obviously far, far more effective.

That's overstating it. They had only one good match, against NU and one good-ish against Villa. That's pretty much it. And they also did have a lot of bad matches while both on the field. Everton's away and first half of Southampton's away game are great examples, against the teams that are somewhat good, Mata and Kagawa connection looked completely lost and ineffective.

 

[Glanville95]

That's overstating it. They had only one good match, against NU and one good-ish against Villa. That's pretty much it. And they also did have a lot of bad matches while both on the field. Everton's away and first half of Southampton's away game are great examples, against the teams that are somewhat good, Mata and Kagawa connection looked completely lost and ineffective.

They were good against Newcastle, good against Villa and good against West Ham. There were also plenty of mitigating factors that are justifiable reasons for many of their poor games also, such as the the Moyes factor, the team being deprived of pace and energy and a team crippled in confidence. The two of them combined well together.

 

[caid]

is superior than Mata - controversial opinion I know - at dropping deep, creating a passing option and orchestrating play in the middle third, but Mata is obviously far, far more effective.

Dont think its that controversial tbh.
Kagawa will drop back to offer that pass, mata doesn't really so its kind of impossible for him to be better at it : /

Doesn't really matter though, mata has been better at providing the things you play a no.10 for - goals and assists, kagawa has been dissapointing in that regard.
Mata's set pieces are a nice bonus too.

Its a pity our 3 most entertaining players will be fighting over the one spot next season.

 

[Lane]

They were good against Newcastle, good against Villa and good against West Ham. There were also plenty of mitigating factors that are justifiable reasons for many of their poor games also, such as the the Moyes factor, the team being deprived of pace and energy and a team crippled in confidence. The two of them combined well together.

"Mitigating factors"
I think it's like Kagawa's middle name really. Look all of these factors does not matter, because we are not discussing whether they can be good together or why exactly they were not. We are only discussing a simple fact of did they "create a great understanding" between them. And i don't think thin they were any good against WH, but i will give you that, if only just not to split hairs. That 3 games. You could only remember 3 games! That is a clear proof that for whatever reason Mata and Kagawa did not create a great understanding.
Someone could probably even pick three games when Buttner was okay and looked like a good player.

 

[Brightonian]

"Mitigating factors"
I think it's like Kagawa's middle name really. Look all of these factors does not matter, because we are not discussing whether they can be good together or why exactly they were not. We are only discussing a simple fact of did they "create a great understanding" between them. And i don't think thin they were any good against WH, but i will give you that, if only just not to split hairs. That 3 games. You could only remember 3 games! That is a clear proof that for whatever reason Mata and Kagawa did not create a great understanding.
Someone could probably even pick three games when Buttner was okay and looked like a good player.

So you're literally just spending this evening going around all the caf's player threads inexplicably slagging off perfectly good players? You've hit Smalling (maybe our second most impressive player vs Roma), Michael Keane (good showing for a youngster) and now Kagawa and Mata.

Who's next, I wonder? Rooney's shooting and long passing against Roma was poor? Mata needs a better first touch?

 

[Glanville95]

"Mitigating factors"
I think it's like Kagawa's middle name really. Look all of these factors does not matter, because we are not discussing whether they can be good together or why exactly they were not. We are only discussing a simple fact of did they "create a great understanding" between them. And i don't think thin they were any good against WH, but i will give you that, if only just not to split hairs. That 3 games. You could only remember 3 games! That is a clear proof that for whatever reason Mata and Kagawa did not create a great understanding.
Someone could probably even pick three games when Buttner was okay and looked like a good player.

Well they hardly had a glut of games together seeing as Mata joined at the end of the January transfer window and Kagawa didn't come under favour from Moyes until late in the season. As I said, the team played poor in nearly every game and that can't be purely attributed to Kagawa and Mata. They do work well together, that's pretty apparent and the only time our off-the-ball movement improved and the team played fluid and more progressive football was when the two played together.

You can shove your smiley up your arse.

Dont think its that controversial tbh.
Kagawa will drop back to offer that pass, mata doesn't really so its kind of impossible for him to be better at it : /

Doesn't really matter though, mata has been better at providing the things you play a no.10 for - goals and assists, kagawa has been dissapointing in that regard.
Mata's set pieces are a nice bonus too.

Its a pity our 3 most entertaining players will be fighting over the one spot next season.

Agreed.

 

[Lane]

So you're literally just spending this evening going around all the caf's player threads inexplicably slagging off perfectly good players? You've hit Smalling (maybe our second most impressive player vs Roma), Michael Keane (good showing for a youngster) and now Kagawa and Mata.

Who's next, I wonder? Rooney's shooting and long passing against Roma was poor? Mata needs a better first touch?

Mata, Rooney, RVP are perfectly good players. Smalling, Kagawa and esp Keane, who is yet to play any meaningful football on the top level, because Championship level is not exactly a United's one, are simply not. They need to improve. Well Smalling and Kagawa need that. Keane needs to play regular football in Prem, otherwise he simply won't make it.

 

[Lane]

Well they hardly had a glut of games together seeing as Mata joined at the end of the January transfer window and Kagawa didn't come under favour from Moyes until late in the season. As I said, the team played poor in nearly every game and that can't be purely attributed to Kagawa and Mata. They do work well together, that's pretty apparent and the only time our off-the-ball movement improved and the team played fluid and more progressive football was when the two played together.

No they don't. They just had some odd good games. If they did work good together United would have played much better from January. But that did not happen, not only because of that, but it still was one of the reasons.
I also doubt LVG will put them both on the field and if they did have this great understanding and ability to improve team's movement LVG would surely notice and have them both on the field. Does not seem to be the case yet. And i doubt it ever will.

 

[caid]

In fairness we didn't exactly play well that many times last season.
3 games isn't as insignificant a number as you make out.

Actually i'd struggle to think of a good performance that didn't involve kagawa tbh.

 

[Glanville95]

No they don't. They just had some odd good games. If they did work good together United would have played much better from January. But that did not happen, not only because of that, but it still was one of the reasons.
I also doubt LVG will put them both on the field and if they did have this great understanding and ability to improve team's movement LVG would surely notice and have them both on the field. Does not seem to be the case yet. And i doubt it ever will.

Well United's best performances generally did come after January, so your first point is moot. Our best league performance before January was our 1-0 win against Arsenal where we barely conjured up a shot on target. Says it all.

Whether van Gaal decides to play just the one or both, isn't an indicator of how highly he rates them, or if he thinks they work well together. He's often stressed how important balance in the sides is, before joining and even now he has arrived. If LVG does persist with the 3-5-2 he's not going to try and shoehorn Kagawa in the side when he wants to have a triumvirate of RVP, Mata and Rooney in their favoured positions and at their best.

I'm not even trying to exempt Kagawa of any criticism. He needs to perform better and this season is vital for his future here, but I find it mystifying how anyone can suggest Mata and Kagawa don't have a good understanding.

 

[manusteve]

I'd like to see Kagawa have a full 90 game at Number 10 in LvG's work-in-progress 3-4-1-2. It does seem probable that Rooney and RvP (understandly) would form the "2" so Kagawa and Mata are the natural contenders for the 10 position.

 

[Nights]

No they don't. They just had some odd good games. If they did work good together United would have played much better from January. But that did not happen, not only because of that, but it still was one of the reasons.
I also doubt LVG will put them both on the field and if they did have this great understanding and ability to improve team's movement LVG would surely notice and have them both on the field. Does not seem to be the case yet. And i doubt it ever will.

I think I can easily count on maybe two hands the number of "good" games that United played last season - could even narrow it down to one hand if you wanted to only include the games where we played cohesively as a team. The fact that some or most of those games involved Kagawa and Kagawa+Mata might be a coincidence. Of course Kagawa played in some of our dire performances as well, but it seems odd to me that you want to single him out when universally our entire team played like complete shit the entire season (other than Rooney's burst of good early season form which mainly involved some improvement at taking set pieces - he tailed off pretty drastically too in the second half of the season).

 

[bosnian_red]

I'd like to see Kagawa have a full 90 game at Number 10 in LvG's work-in-progress 3-4-1-2. It does seem probable that Rooney and RvP (understandly) would form the "2" so Kagawa and Mata are the natural contenders for the 10 position.

Given that both Rooney and rvp are likely to be injured at points in the season, I think there's a chance it could become like a 3-4-2-1, with mata next to kagawa or januzaj, behind the striker, rather then the attacking mids trying to play as strikers.

 

[Gladiator]

Yeah so if mata and kagawa had a great understanding they would have played more games together last season , except this assumption excuses the fact our manager last season didn't have a consistent lineup at all. i'll grab my coat

 

[Momochiru]

--------------- DDG --------------
----- Jones - Smalling - Evans -----
Valencia - Herrera - Kagawa - Shaw
--------------- Mata -------------
---------- Rooney - RVP ----------

We'll win every game 5-3

Put that away, you will give someone cancer with that.

Why is everyone giving the Mad Winger such a hard time for this formation? Obviously we are never going to play like that against the top teams, but it's a great setup against the teams who park the bus. When the other team has 10 people behind the ball we would need all our creative players in order to crack them up. There will be though passes galore coming from Mata, Kagawa, Herrera and there is no one better than RVP and Rooney to finish them. The three CBs + Herrera and Kagawa should be enough to mop up the occasional counter attack.

If the opposition tries to push and overrun us in midfield, than the wing backs could tuck in and play as traditional FBs, while Jones can move up and play as a DM transforming this formation in a much more defensive narrow 4-4-2.