Shinji Kagawa - Dortmund Player

[Blue always red]

Why is everyone giving the Mad Winger such a hard time for this formation? Obviously we are never going to play like that against the top teams, but it's a great setup against the teams who park the bus. When the other team has 10 people behind the ball we would need all our creative players in order to crack them up. There will be though passes galore coming from Mata, Kagawa, Herrera and there is no one better than RVP and Rooney to finish them. The three CBs + Herrera and Kagawa should be enough to mop up the occasional counter attack.

If the opposition tries to push and overrun us in midfield, than the wing backs could tuck in and play as traditional FBs, while Jones can move up and play as a DM transforming this formation in a much more defensive narrow 4-4-2.

Through passes when a team is parking the bus? No, no, no. You'll basically have 3 players all stood on the edge of the box trying to orchestrate our play, but shifting it side to side waiting for someone else to make a clever run in the box.

If you play Kagawa next to Herrera you are basically chopping a leg off each of them. You massively handicap Herrera because he has to cover for Kagawa, and you massively handicap Kagawa because he plays best when receiving the ball higher up the field and being able to turn quickly a release someone else. He's not a strong enough player to make a 30 yard run and get a ball in.

Kagawa does a good job controlling the midfield against very weak opposition, but from there he cannot hurt anybody and it'll be a massive waste of his talent not to mention better players in that position.

LVG wont play Kagawa just to placate the fans. He'll play him when he thinks he can do a good job and I'd wager Kagawa will be a big game player for us, especially against opposition that will dominate the ball. IMO he's better than Mata when it comes to counter-attacking.

 

[Momochiru]

Through passes when a team is parking the bus? No, no, no. You'll basically have 3 players all stood on the edge of the box trying to orchestrate our play, but shifting it side to side waiting for someone else to make a clever run in the box.

If you play Kagawa next to Herrera you are basically chopping a leg off each of them. You massively handicap Herrera because he has to cover for Kagawa, and you massively handicap Kagawa because he plays best when receiving the ball higher up the field and being able to turn quickly a release someone else. He's not a strong enough player to make a 30 yard run and get a ball in.

Kagawa does a good job controlling the midfield against very weak opposition, but from there he cannot hurt anybody and it'll be a massive waste of his talent not to mention better players in that position.

LVG wont play Kagawa just to placate the fans. He'll play him when he thinks he can do a good job and I'd wager Kagawa will be a big game player for us, especially against opposition that will dominate the ball. IMO he's better than Mata when it comes to counter-attacking.

Obviously Kagawa's best position is number 10, but he is behind Mata there. I would rather see him play in the midfield against week opposition, then warm the bench for prolonged time. I think with his passing he will compliment Herrera in games like that, not handicap him. This will also boost his confidence and keep him match fit - that's very important. The number 10 is crucial in LVG's system and if Mata gets injured you can't expect Kagawa to step up and perform at 100% right away if he has been on the bench for a month or two.

 

[jason93]

Maybe LVG can turn him into a Modric type player.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I predicted he would turn in to a central midfielder under LVG, not surprised to see LVG agree with me.

It is still early days in the transitioning process which can take up to a year or more like with Davids and Seedorf. Seedorf especially took a very long time to build up the defensive part of his game.

He slowly developed defensively every year for 10 years pretty much but in the end he was rock solid defensively as well.

We should try to look at it positively though, one thing is certain and it is that Kagawa already offers something none of the other CM options does which is already very useful, so well done LVG.

Kagawa-Herrera with Mata in front is already incredibly good when we are one behind and chasing a comeback or when we are up against weak sides who happily sit back and hope for a draw.

Kagawa will need to show great personality though to learn a new role so late in his career and I think he will come out of it stronger if he manages to convert.

 

[caisenma]

Lots of rumours abound that LVG is open to shipping him out. Hopefully lots of the other deadwood goes before him.

 

[Xaviesta]

Mark Ogden wrote in the telegraph that van Gaal would open to accepting offers for him. Fair enough in my book, but I'm sure there'll be those who'll disagree.

 

[Kag]

Another unfortunate victim of the potential 352. Mata is our #10 and rightfully so. He's the best player at the club. Januzaj is a gem, and young players like him need games, games and more games. Due to this, he's playing when Mata or a forward isn't. He's more important than Kagawa in this respect. I'm struggling to see where Shinji fits in all of this. With a 433 I think he would get more than enough games to flourish, but not with the 352.

Unfortunate, but if this is the plan, I can see the sense in selling him because he's too good to dick about on the bench every week. Just another example of the pathetic way Ferguson, and then Moyes, put this squad together since Ronaldo was sold. Barmy rotation, strange signings, players regularly out of position and younger players stalled. Jones, Smalling, Kagawa, even De Gea for a good period, what were we doing with them? Christ, even Anderson. Where was the plan? Where was the foresight? The first two have stalled, the third one is on his way, the fourth one was half a season from getting the boot and the latter has been, albeit partly his fault, ruined.

I have no idea what Ferguson was trying to achieve here.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Don't think Kagawa is going anywhere unless he's going back to Dortmund as part of a swap deal to bring us Hummels. Which is highly fecking unlikely. On one hand, Mata is LVG's pick in the #10 role. However, the fact that Kagawa is being tried out as a CM indicates to me that LVG is trying to find ways to get Kagawa on the pitch. LVG clearly values him.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I personally thought he looked good in the midfield role anyway. Sure he is a little lightweight but against teams we are going to dominate possession against, I would rather him play there than Rooney. It's not like he was completely useless either, he helped press the Roma midfield well. I would like to see him next to Herrera for a few minutes.

 

[quackattack]

Don't think Kagawa is going anywhere unless he's going back to Dortmund as part of a swap deal to bring us Hummels. Which is highly fecking unlikely. On one hand, Mata is LVG's pick in the #10 role. However, the fact that Kagawa is being tried out as a CM indicates to me that LVG is trying to find ways to get Kagawa on the pitch. LVG clearly values him.

I too have a feeling that he might be seeing things in him. As I've heard, LVG looks for extreme qualities, Kagawa, knowing from the time in Dort has that, ut for some reason didn't make it work in PL. Perhaps LVG is the right man to squeeze out something here, even in a CM position.
If counter attacking, or fast breaks, Kagawa will be an excellent link- up player and can add additional pace to the attack, perhaps this is what LVG sees im him?

 

[RooneyLegend]

What exactly has convinced people that van gaal rates him?

 

[Red Shorts]

What exactly has convinced people that van gaal rates him?

The fact that he has been selected for the bench, the lucky sausage.

 

[Mad Winger]

What exactly has convinced people that van gaal rates him?

The fact that he's a typical Van Gaal player?

The only reason he doesn't start, is because Van Gaal really values balance. Playing Mata and Kagawa at the same time isn't balanced enough for him, and thus he picks the more effective of the two, which just so happens to be Mata(for now). That's why Kagawa has featured as a CM so far. Van Gaal wants to include Kagawa in our team, but not at the cost of Mata. He's therefore willing to try and convert Kagawa.

 

[Annahnomoss]

“When you see Mata or Herrera playing, and Kagawa, who are the best passers, but everything went wrong and it is the air, I believe." - LVG

 

[Ling]

Bloody hell Kagawa, was about time. Excellent so far.

 

[Midnight1811]

Neat & tidy again. Reminds me of the games in the CL

 

[mancan92]

Looked great tonight again. Would love to see him play in the "A" team at some point. His touch is just ridiculous at times. Hes just missing one crucial spark cause at this moment hes doing everything but score.

 

[Devil may care]

Careless in possession at times, we lose our extra bit of slickness in attack when he replaces Mata.

 

[Mad Winger]

Another good performance by him. I'd like to see him get a run with the likes of Rooney, RVP and Welbeck ahead of him. It's not easy to create chances with Nani and Zaha in front of you(though tbf, the latter did alright).

 

[mancan92]

Careless in possession at times, we lose our extra bit of slickness in attack when he replaces Mata.

100% nonsense did you even watch the game? At what point did he even lose possession let alone be less slick.

 

[Devil may care]

100% nonsense did you even watch the game? At what point did he even lose possession let alone be less slick.

Do I have to go through and mark down the time stamps for you? His nice first touches and turns have so many blinded to the other aspect which is using the ball once he has it, at times tonight he misplaced passes in good areas or over hit them forcing Nani and Zaha to alter their runs to get to them, if you compare that to Mata's way of directing our attacks he is clearly not as good. I didn't say he was particularly bad though so settle yourself down.

 

[mancan92]

Do I have to go through and mark down the time stamps for you? His nice first touches and turns have so many blinded to the other aspect which is using the ball once he has it, at times tonight he misplaced passes in good areas or over hit them forcing Nani and Zaha to alter their runs to get to them, if you compare that to Mata's way of directing our attacks he is clearly not as good. I didn't say he was particularly bad though so settle yourself down.

Im sorry but as someone who is very much is an admirer I tend to watch him much closer than most the other players and most fans. He literally lost the ball twice the entire half. Mata was not perfect either also missing a few passes so I dont really understand what your saying at all. All the fluent play in the second half came from his involvement. Too many people want to now jump at any little thing and forget the good. He was very good today, mata in the first half was absolutely no better.

 

[Blue always red]

Was not as clinical today in his passing, but that was the tradeoff for playing in his advanced position. Last game he had much less license to roam forward because the midfield consisted of Nani and Lingard so he was tasked with controlling it. At times today he was very good, however there were also very careless positional mistakes which I haven't seen Kagawa make. The bit where Zaha played a perfect ball into his path inside the box but Shinji didn't read it springs to mind.

Good performance though. Should be one of the last players we actively seek to get rid of.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

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Strange.

 

[mancan92]

Was not as clinical today in his passing, but that was the tradeoff for playing in his advanced position. Last game he had much less license to roam forward because the midfield consisted of Nani and Lingard so he was tasked with controlling it. At times today he was very good, however there were also very careless positional mistakes which I haven't seen Kagawa make. The bit where Zaha played a perfect ball into his path inside the box but Shinji didn't read it springs to mind.

Good performance though. Should be one of the last players we actively seek to get rid of.

See this is a criticism I actually understand and agree with although he hasnt played the position in this 352 yet so of course he won't been positionally perfect as he plays there more I expect him to adapt accordingly.

 

[Devil may care]

Im sorry but as someone who is very much is an admirer I tend to watch him much closer than most the other players and most fans. He literally lost the ball twice the entire half. Mata was not perfect either also missing a few passes so I dont really understand what your saying at all. All the fluent play in the second half came from his involvement. Too many people want to now jump at any little thing and forget the good. He was very good today, mata in the first half was absolutely no better.

There's not really any point in arguing as you clearly have your mind made up, I think he is too careless with his passing in comparison to Mata and doesn't link as well, you feel differently, but it's nearly 3am here so lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Blue always red]

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Strange.

Basically confirms that he wanted him to be the one controlling the game last match. Played in the same position during one of the matches Giggs was in charge of. Very Scholes-like in that position, with ability to shift the ball whilst under threat and then position himself so he can receive it, however I feel it's a waste of his attacking ability.

 

[Annahnomoss]

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Strange.

Stoked to be right about this, not sure how many people called me crazy for saying LVG would probably look to convert Kagawa in to the central midfield.

 

[mancan92]

There's not really any point in arguing as you clearly have your mind made up, I think he is too careless with his passing in comparison to Mata and doesn't link as well, you feel differently, but it's nearly 3am here so lets just agree to disagree.

Fair enough mate

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I feel he's wasted in a deeper midfield role, but we shall see.

 

[caid]

Will be interesting to see how that works out.
He looked pretty decent as an 8 so sounds good to me.

 

[FromTheBench]

Kagawa at 6 seems a crazy idea tbh. 8 can still sort of work with a screener in behind.


Reckon he just doesn't do enough as a 10 which is a problem and he'd be behind Mata and Januzaj soon.

 

[Kag]

I didn't watch the game, but I think these last few comments sum up this thread. It always strikes me as an agenda. He was either good or he wasn't. It's not rocket science. Now, can somebody swim their way through the bullshit and actually, honestly, detail how the lad played? No exaggeration.

 

[bosnian_red]

I feel he's wasted in a deeper midfield role, but we shall see.

He's wasted even more on the bench though, and he's not getting in ahead of Mata or Herrera. Better in the middle then the wing as he can get on the ball more and control the game which he's great at even when he plays poorly.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

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Strange.

Desperate, no signings?

 

[Alock1]

Basically confirms that he wanted him to be the one controlling the game last match. Played in the same position during one of the matches Giggs was in charge of. Very Scholes-like in that position, with ability to shift the ball whilst under threat and then position himself so he can receive it, however I feel it's a waste of his attacking ability.

At number 10 he's been controlling the game for us without creating a huge deal or stamping his authority on games.

I think he's a great player but I don't think he'll put up the number that Mata or Rooney would there.. even Januzaj would perhaps be able to have more of an effect there purely through a determination to have an effect that Kagawa has seemingly liked at United.

I'd like to see him given a go in the midfield. His touch in tight situations and his willingness to come to the ball is arguably the best in the team.

He's a little lightweight but he'll offer more defensively than Scholes did in his later years purely through work rate. Having someone that's able to control the pace of the game and is always available for a pass can have a huge bearing on a teams ability to play a possession system.

Looking forward to discussing it on the podcast tomorow.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

He's wasted even more on the bench though, and he's not getting in ahead of Mata or Herrera. Better in the middle then the wing as he can get on the ball more and control the game which he's great at even when he plays poorly.

I'd agree, although I'm unsure a midfield of Kagawa and one of Cleverley or Fletcher would be sufficient in the Premier League.

 

[caid]

I didn't watch the game, but I think these last few comments sum up this thread. It always strikes me as an agenda. He was either good or he wasn't. It's not rocket science. Now, can somebody swim their way through the bullshit and actually, honestly, detail how the lad played? No exaggeration.

Our front 3 in both halves were underwhelming.
Inter basically had 10 men behind the ball most of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if we had 70%+ possession.
So it was fairly tough to carve out chances.
A couple of misunderstandings the odd time with zaha and nani -I guess they haven't played together that many times.

He was fine. Had a couple of nice passes, turns and a nice dummy to set up a good chance for cleverley.
Nothing to get excited about either way imo.

 

[mancan92]

I didn't watch the game, but I think these last few comments sum up this thread. It always strikes me as an agenda. He was either good or he wasn't. It's not rocket science. Now, can somebody swim their way through the bullshit and actually, honestly, detail how the lad played? No exaggeration.

Was a typical Kagawa performance neat tidy, made some great touches and turns, Setup a very good chance for nani in a game of very few opportunities. But again is just lacking that killer instinct or spark that is the only thing lacking for me. He was better than mata today in that position.

 

[Alock1]

I'd agree, although I'm unsure a midfield of Kagawa and one of Cleverley or Fletcher would be sufficient in the Premier League.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him try Herrera alongside Kagawa. It'd be somewhat lightweight but very hardworking and would have the ability to control the game.

Plus, the 352 system allows for the centre backs to be aggressive. We'll see them stepping forward to stop the opposition early knowing they have cover behind them which should help to ease those concerns.