Should UEFA introduce a salary cap?

[adexkola]

I think he meant American leagues are built to stifle competition, which is correct. Not just the salary cap.

It makes no sense in the context of this thread. If you are a team in an American league you have a legitimate chance of winning. The Knicks have sucked for almost 20 years despite being a big market team for example. The same cannot be said for any football league in Europe.

As far as compensation goes, what players are being underpaid in America? The only thing the salary cap prevents is a lot of talent getting paid on the same team. The maximum individual salary is negotiated by the players and owners, and is accepted by all parties as the maximum value a player is worth.

 

[MackRobinson]

In what way?

It makes no sense in the context of this thread. If you are a team in an American league you have a legitimate chance of winning. The Knicks have sucked for almost 20 years despite being a big market team for example. The same cannot be said for any football league in Europe.

As far as compensation goes, what players are being underpaid in America? The only thing the salary cap prevents is a lot of talent getting paid on the same team. The maximum individual salary is negotiated by the players and owners, and is accepted by all parties as the maximum value a player is worth.

Maybe the correct wording should be North American leagues are allowed to stifle competition, because they are cartels.

What players are being underpaid? Most NBA players still on their rookie scale contract and all NBA players with a max contract.

The salary cap is not designed to limit the amount of talent on one team. Like I said before the NBA also has max contracts and rookie scale contracts designed to supress the wages of these players. Interestingly enough, these are their most valuable players. This allows teams to potentially get many of these very valuable players on the same team. There is no way the Miami or Golden State teams would have existed if the NBA owners didn't insist on a cap on player salaries (they negotiate this in every CBA).

The maximum NBA salary is not set directly. The amount of money the players get is based on a basketball related income and, IIRC, the max salary and rookie scale salaries are a percentage of that. That percentage is negotiated but really it shouldn't be. Why should the NBA be allowed to dictate the wages when they are the only employer and essentially control the market for professional basketball players? All you are doing is enriching owners at the expense of players.

 

[Sky1981]

Stop ruining football you dinosaurs.

Salary cap would make the competition a joke with the likes of southampton winning the league. Is that what you really want? Do you want entertainment? Do you want equality across the board so that every teams is the carbon copy of who gets lucky with the draft?

 

[predator]

Yes. The sheer insanity of the figures is bad of course but the effect its having on the game is massively detrimental. Decent players over 30 years old will settle for a paycheck when they have more to give and young players will be swayed by high wages and not where is best for them to develop.

It will never happen because the governing bodies are part of the cash cow as the saying goes.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Yes they should. And for the people saying the rules dont allow it; change the fecking rules.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Salary cap would make the competition a joke with the likes of southampton winning the league. Is that what you really want? Do you want entertainment? Do you want equality across the board so that every teams is the carbon copy of who gets lucky with the draft?

When you say it like that, bring on the salary cap.

Come on, Saints!

 

[Bestietom]

I doubt if they would put a salary cap on clubs. Already in favour of a super league.

 

[JPRouve]

When you say it like that, bring on the salary cap.

Come on, Saints!

The parity in american sports is almost entirely based on the draft system where being bad is rewarded by in theory having access to the best and cheapest prospects, players don't really have a choice about where they play outside of free agency. Of course the salary rules play their part but it's worth mentioning that american leagues have a cap floor which means that every team is forced to spend a minimum amount, it's an other issue with system when you try to translate it to european sports because teams with vastly different markets and commercial potential compete with each others, teams with 500m budgets in a competition with teams with 60m budgets.

 

[JarkiJarko]

Just saw the Bayern presser with Hernandez and there was also talk about a salary cap.

Rummenigge (and he has to know) said that's it's impossible to introduce because of European laws. When he was ECA-chief they had people in Brussels several times put were always told that European laws won't allow a salary cap.

 

[manc exile]

Just saw the Bayern presser with Hernandez and there was also talk about a salary cap.

Rummenigge (and he has to know) said that's it's impossible to introduce because of European laws. When he was ECA-chief they had people in Brussels several times put were always told that European laws won't allow a salary cap.

and even if wasnt all a salary cap in europe would do is lead to an exodus of players to leagues with no salary cap

 

[Mb194dc]

A sporting competition is preferable to an economic one, as now, in my opinion.

Of course the vested interests in football will be dead against it, lest big clubs end up like the NY Nicks as posted above. That is what financial "fair play" is about.. entrenching the same teams at the top of football, forever.

The flaw in this plan Imo, is that ultimately it will get incredibly tiresome, boring, and fans will realise it's pointless to support all but about 10 clubs, as all the other teams just make the numbers up and it will never change.

We're already seeing it in the big leagues. The premier league at least made it interesting with Liverpool. Ultimately viewing numbers will fall, TV bubble will burst as kids play fortnite or whatever and football takes a backseat.

Then we might see the model evolve to more the US way professional sports leagues are organised where the design is so that all the teams have a chance, with good management, to eventually win a big trophy.

 

[Gasolin]

A cap is the ultimate move to help owners and make sure they don't invest in teams so no. It should be competitive.

 

[R'hllor]

Nope.

 

[Revan]

From an American perspective, it appears to be the better system. Most of our major professional leagues use salary caps and revenue sharing. Hence my question.

They also are closed leagues, have a draft systems and the trading of players is different to transfers in Europe. Still, (at least in NBA) the number of champions is smaller than the number of champions in European leagues taking the same period of time.

 

[horsechoker]

Stop ruining football you dinosaurs.

Salary cap would make the competition a joke with the likes of southampton winning the league. Is that what you really want? Do you want entertainment? Do you want equality across the board so that every teams is the carbon copy of who gets lucky with the draft?

Yes, considering one of our closest rivals keeps winning it anyway. I'd take 10 years of Southampton domination if it meant City or Liverpool weren't winning the title

 

[Ace Krampus]

A sporting competition is preferable to an economic one, as now, in my opinion.

Of course the vested interests in football will be dead against it, lest big clubs end up like the NY Nicks as posted above. That is what financial "fair play" is about.. entrenching the same teams at the top of football, forever.

The flaw in this plan Imo, is that ultimately it will get incredibly tiresome, boring, and fans will realise it's pointless to support all but about 10 clubs, as all the other teams just make the numbers up and it will never change.

We're already seeing it in the big leagues. The premier league at least made it interesting with Liverpool. Ultimately viewing numbers will fall, TV bubble will burst as kids play fortnite or whatever and football takes a backseat.

Then we might see the model evolve to more the US way professional sports leagues are organised where the design is so that all the teams have a chance, with good management, to eventually win a big trophy.

Preach! The good teams in all the major sports here in the US all operate more or less the same way. Identify and procure a young, generational talent, max your spend while you have that talent under contract, if you miss your window, sell off assets before their expiration date, rinse and repeat. Done correctly, some teams manage to reinvent themselves seemingly overnight.

The key there is "correctly." Detractors of a salary cap will point to teams who have sucked for decades despite the mechanisms to prevent that, such as my forlornly beloved Knicks. But like you said, good management is key. Doesn't matter what checks and balances exist; you can't fix stupid.

The NHL is really a fascinating league. Some teams have less liquid cash but the salary cap is pretty low all things considered so even those teams can field competitive options. The 16th best team in the league can win a Cup and no one would really bat an eye, except of course the ecstatic fanbase. The Kings came out of nowhere as an 8th seed and won two Cups in three years, they had a window and they forced themselves through it.

I remember Birmingham winning the then-Carling Cup in 2011. Must've been awesome for those fans but they got relegated the same season and haven't been promoted since. What's it worth? Team wins a freakin' cup but will just never have the bandwidth to remain competitive on multiple fronts. That sucks.

 

[Carolina Red]

They also are closed leagues, have a draft systems and the trading of players is different to transfers in Europe. Still, (at least in NBA) the number of champions is smaller than the number of champions in European leagues taking the same period of time.

1) I'm aware. That's been discussed in this thread already.

2) I'd say the NBA gives significantly more parity considering the title count is at 20 different teams since 1947 in the NBA vs. 23 different teams since 1889 in the English top flight.

 

[Sky1981]

Yes, considering one of our closest rivals keeps winning it anyway. I'd take 10 years of Southampton domination if it meant City or Liverpool weren't winning the title

The state of our fans these days

 

[Andersonson]

Why have a salary cap? Shouldnt it be the clubs business to decide what they want to do with their money?

 

[Mb194dc]

Why have a salary cap? Shouldnt it be the clubs business to decide what they want to do with their money?

For the greater good it makes sense to have financially balanced professional sports leagues.

US is ultimate capitalist power, yet sports owners realised the best way to have an entertaining and sellable product is to give all teams a chance, if they're managed well, to win the big trophies.

Ultimately I'm certain football will follow as the biggest clubs will take all the fans and it'll get really, really dull. No matter how much the leagues, like the premier League try to make it at least a vague competition.

 

[Skills]

For the greater good it makes sense to have financially balanced professional sports leagues.

US is ultimate capitalist power, yet sports owners realised the best way to have an entertaining and sellable product is to give all teams a chance, if they're managed well, to win the big trophies.

Ultimately I'm certain football will follow as the biggest clubs will take all the fans and it'll get really, really dull. No matter how much the leagues, like the premier League try to make it at least a vague competition.

try again. They realise the best way to put as much money as possible into their own pockets is to cap the amount their employees earn.

 

[ninjaskill]

For the greater good it makes sense to have financially balanced professional sports leagues.

US is ultimate capitalist power, yet sports owners realised the best way to have an entertaining and sellable product is to give all teams a chance, if they're managed well, to win the big trophies.

Ultimately I'm certain football will follow as the biggest clubs will take all the fans and it'll get really, really dull. No matter how much the leagues, like the premier League try to make it at least a vague competition.

The owners realised its the best way to make as much money from the league as possible and it helps them a lot more than the players. NFL and NHL have wage spending at about half of revenue and almost every big football club spends more than that. I am almost certain even if there was some will for it in Europe it wouldn't happen, no way do owners like cities and PSG agree with it. Pretty sure even real and barca would say no as they stay ahead by paying players a lot more than other teams can.

It would also lead to the same big clubs dominating if a player has a choice between player for Real Madrid or Getafe for the same money he will pick Real Madrid every time.

Also the huge variation in taxes means that it would have to be a post-tax salary cap or else there would be almost 50% wage discrepancies between nations and that would probably annoy owners who had to spend more money. Also the different number of currencies would add to the difficulty of making sure that each team pays the same amount of money per player.

 

[Mb194dc]

True that in Europe there are barriers with currencies and tax rates.

Ligue 1 is pretty good if extreme example of the problem. PSG so totally dominant I can't imagine who could be interested to watch it, must be depressing for OL, OM fans and the rest.

Imagine if PSG win the next 20 titles in a row? That seems pretty probable to me.., given its impossible now with FFP for any other team to ever get a squad half as good.

 

[Andersonson]

For the greater good it makes sense to have financially balanced professional sports leagues.

US is ultimate capitalist power, yet sports owners realised the best way to have an entertaining and sellable product is to give all teams a chance, if they're managed well, to win the big trophies.

Ultimately I'm certain football will follow as the biggest clubs will take all the fans and it'll get really, really dull. No matter how much the leagues, like the premier League try to make it at least a vague competition.

Or perhaps it makes the owners more Money this way... If United were to reduce it wage bill the owners of the Club would be even richer..

Entertaining and sellable Product isnt really a valid point. The TV Revenue has never been higher. And thats not only in the Premier Leauge. Football has never been more sellable

 

[Mb194dc]

Or perhaps it makes the owners more Money this way... If United were to reduce it wage bill the owners of the Club would be even richer..

Entertaining and sellable Product isnt really a valid point. The TV Revenue has never been higher. And thats not only in the Premier Leauge. Football has never been more sellable

Just wait, price to fans doubled in UK in last 5 years with BT entering the market.

I don't think it's sustainable and you'll see rights values collapse over the next decade.

Greed of the top clubs will kill the market.

 

[ninjaskill]

True that in Europe there are barriers with currencies and tax rates.

Ligue 1 is pretty good if extreme example of the problem. PSG so totally dominant I can't imagine who could be interested to watch it, must be depressing for OL, OM fans and the rest.

Imagine if PSG win the next 20 titles in a row? That seems pretty probable to me.., given its impossible now with FFP for any other team to ever get a squad half as good.

They failed to win the title a couple of years ago and French sides produce good players so anything can happen. But also even with a salary cap I would bet PSG would dominate Ligue 1 as big players would rather live in Paris than other French cities, if PSG's owners had bought Lyon instead I doubt Neymar goes, just like it is in the NBA with players leaving to go to LA and NYC or title challengers and since PSG are in a really nice city and are title challengers people would still want to join them. It would just make big city teams more dominant.

 

[Mb194dc]

They failed to win the title a couple of years ago and French sides produce good players so anything can happen. But also even with a salary cap I would bet PSG would dominate Ligue 1 as big players would rather live in Paris than other French cities, if PSG's owners had bought Lyon instead I doubt Neymar goes, just like it is in the NBA with players leaving to go to LA and NYC or title challengers and since PSG are in a really nice city and are title challengers people would still want to join them. It would just make big city teams more dominant.

True Monaco had a near miracle season to win the title. Now look at them..

In financially even league OM would be the biggest draw, then OL then PSG I think. Only OM have a CL trophy.

They are the traditional French football powerhouses.

Lyon and Marseille mainly preferable to Paris imo, Nice and Bordeaux too probably actually.

Paris has nice parts but it's also pretty rough around the edges. Lifestyle and weather better in other French cities imo.

 

[JPRouve]

True that in Europe there are barriers with currencies and tax rates.

Ligue 1 is pretty good if extreme example of the problem. PSG so totally dominant I can't imagine who could be interested to watch it, must be depressing for OL, OM fans and the rest.

Imagine if PSG win the next 20 titles in a row? That seems pretty probable to me.., given its impossible now with FFP for any other team to ever get a squad half as good.

That's so weird to read things like that, particularly when for some reason Ligue 1 is singled out, it's not as if most leagues are won by the same team or the same couple of teams. Also football fans like football games, that's what they want to see, most of them aren't glory hunters and don't follow their clubs for silverware.

 

[ninjaskill]

True Monaco had a near miracle season to win the title. Now look at them..

In financially even league OM would be the biggest draw, then OL then PSG I think. Only OM have a CL trophy.

They are the traditional French football powerhouses.

Lyon and Marseille mainly preferable to Paris imo, Nice and Bordeaux too probably actually.

Paris has nice parts but it's also pretty rough around the edges. Lifestyle and weather better in other French cities imo.

I would be very confident that most footballers who are multi millionaires in their 20s would prefer to live in Paris over any other city in France and that is why PSG would be the best team even without a salary cap. I doubt footballers remember when Marseille were a dominant team in Europe and I also doubt that it would influence there decision. I think fans overthink how much players care about the history of clubs, I still think the city would win it for Paris and they are also the most supported team in France which would help in even money scenarios and Paris produce a lot of very good players so they would have a huge advantage no matter what the rules are.

 

[DysenteryGary]

The fact that this does not exist made me lose interest in football all together a year ago.

 

[JPRouve]

I would be very confident that most footballers who are multi millionaires in their 20s would prefer to live in Paris over any other city in France and that is why PSG would be the best team even without a salary cap. I doubt footballers remember when Marseille were a dominant team in Europe and I also doubt that it would influence there decision. I think fans overthink how much players care about the history of clubs, I still think the city would win it for Paris and they are also the most supported team in France which would help in even money scenarios and Paris produce a lot of very good players so they would have a huge advantage no matter what the rules are.

Historically Paris doesn't have a particular draw and if you are really rich, it's in the south east that you will be the most comfortable around Nice, Cannes and Monaco.

 

[Mb194dc]

That's so weird to read things like that, particularly when for some reason Ligue 1 is singled out, it's not as if most leagues are won by the same team or the same couple of teams. Also football fans like football games, that's what they want to see, most of them aren't glory hunters and don't follow their clubs for silverware.

True for the moment, they need to at least have hope for a trophy though, which OM / OL fans still can do, for now.

In recent times Lyon, Bordeaux Lille, Monaco, OM and others have won titles.

Now PSG upped the money though I don't see that happening again, if they're well managed and maintain there financial advantage with FFP they should win the French title pretty much forever.

At least in France fairly certain something will ultimately be done about it.

Égalité is a French thing and populace won't stand for PSG dominating, forever.

 

[Mb194dc]

Historically Paris doesn't have a particular draw and if you are really rich, it's in the south east that you will be the most comfortable around Nice, Cannes and Monaco.

True, I prefer Bordeaux though. It's more French.. even if overt displays of wealth not in exactly, if you're a footballer.

The Cap is great and Basque country close.

France is really a fantastic country in a lot of ways.

Ligue 1 was great before PSG went postal with spending. Like la Liga was 20 odd years ago to, very even so much better to watch.

 

[Sultan]

I hardly think a salary cap it would stand up in court.

 

[Tomuś]

A salary cap will mean jack all. Clubs will find a way to pay players through some sponsorship deals or other dodgy stuff (see City).

 

[Corizzle88]

The fact that this does not exist made me lose interest in football all together a year ago.

Yet you’re back a year later?

 

[Ace Krampus]

The owners realised its the best way to make as much money from the league as possible and it helps them a lot more than the players. NFL and NHL have wage spending at about half of revenue and almost every big football club spends more than that. I am almost certain even if there was some will for it in Europe it wouldn't happen, no way do owners like cities and PSG agree with it. Pretty sure even real and barca would say no as they stay ahead by paying players a lot more than other teams can.

It would also lead to the same big clubs dominating if a player has a choice between player for Real Madrid or Getafe for the same money he will pick Real Madrid every time.

Also the huge variation in taxes means that it would have to be a post-tax salary cap or else there would be almost 50% wage discrepancies between nations and that would probably annoy owners who had to spend more money. Also the different number of currencies would add to the difficulty of making sure that each team pays the same amount of money per player.

1) Right that's the point, Barca and Madrid pay more and the goal is to counteract that for the sake of parity.

2) But Real Madrid couldn't afford to pay as many guys as they do since they'd hit the cap, so some would go to Getafe as Getafe would have cap dollars to burn.

3) Even in the US/Canada this is an issue but players still want to play in NY and LA not Florida (with some exceptions).

 

[Ecstatic]

Historically Paris doesn't have a particular draw and if you are really rich, it's in the south east that you will be the most comfortable around Nice, Cannes and Monaco.

No comments!

 

[ninjaskill]

1) Right that's the point, Barca and Madrid pay more and the goal is to counteract that for the sake of parity.

2) But Real Madrid couldn't afford to pay as many guys as they do since they'd hit the cap, so some would go to Getafe as Getafe would have cap dollars to burn.

3) Even in the US/Canada this is an issue but players still want to play in NY and LA not Florida (with some exceptions).

1 But you have to convince enough clubs to decide that it is a good idea for it to ever happen and I think if domestic leagues introduced a salary cap the big teams would just leave for a european super league and that would just make the situation even worse.

2 Super teams still exist in the NBA despite that, and also this relies on a team like Getafe having enough money. Especially in currently uneven leagues enough teams will not have enough money to compete as their is no way a salary cap happens that requires teams to sell players and so it could be that big teams can pay up to the cap and smaller teams are still in the same boat trying to compete and paying no where near as much as the big teams and losing there better players to them.

3 Exactly and big teams tend to be in destination cities which makes them more likely to stay big no matter what.

Also and this is a big one I'd be 99% sure that a salary cap would be illegal under EU law

 

[spontaneus1]

Salary cap and promotion/relegation systems are mutually exclusive.