Should United ever be in the business of recruiting players who are not desperate to come?

[fastwalker]

I know that United are in a different place in terms of the pull factor for potential transfers but I must confess to being uneasy with the idea that we might sign anyone who is not desperate or at least keen to come. I still have not recovered from the Angel Di Maria signing under Louis Van Gaal, when we brought in an undoubtedly world class player for a c£60m fee who simply went through the motions and departed before the start of the next season. Across town, I also remember the debacle of the Robinho signing at Manchester City. A player who seemed not to even know which club he was signing for!

Fast forward to the ongoing Frenkie De Jong saga. If a player wants to trigger a move, they will get their agent to put out unambiguous messages to the press. For example: "player X would be keen or is open to a move to club Y". The player themselves might even send an unsubtle 'come and get me nod and wink' to the suitor club eg: "I am flattered by the interest from [insert club name here], but I am currently a [insert club name here] player". However, this does not seem to be the case with De Jong. If anything his public statements seem to imply that he wants to remain at the Catalan club, whilst seemingly resigned to the fact that he may be sold. That's not to say that I do not believe that a deal will be done, I strongly expect that it will. However, does he really want to be at United? I doubt it.

It's a tough one I know, because right now, like most United fans I just want to see good quality signings. But given where we are and where we are trying to get to, would you ever risk recruiting a player that was not desperate to come?

 

[Matriac]

Yes.

 

[Kill 'em all]

Finding players desperate to come here with all the bad press we get and the current situation the club is in will prove to be a difficult task.

We find no problem with spending money but we rarely get it right. Until we get back on track, we need to use money as one of the lures to give us the extra edge against our rivals but we need to do it on the right players or else it's just a repetition of another 1bn down the drain.

 

[Zoo]

Di Maria got Van Gaaled so much so that he despised him by the end. Will that happen with ETH and De Jong. Doubtful. He also didn’t speak a word of English, his family struggled to adapt to the country then they got burgled.

De Jong wasn’t expecting to move but don’t think he’ll have too much of an issue working again under his former manager who will build the midfield around him.

 

[sullydnl]

Yes.

99.9% of players don't play for the club they most want to play for but still play to the best of their abilities, because it's their career. And a large portion of the players who were successes here would likely have preferred to be elsewhere if it was an option. You don't need players who are desperate to play for you, you just need them to play well for you whenever and however they arrrive.

It would be egotistical in the extreme to think we shouldn't have to convince players to come when that is the case for pretty much every football club on the planet, as if we have a god given right to top players. And frankly given the way we've been run players would be stupid not to at least consider whether we're the best career move.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

Fine line I guess. I see the de Jong one a little differently than say Di Maria and Sanchez on the basis we have a Manager who knows his character completely and can make a judgement call.

In principle I guess my answer is yes but we need to have the proper due diligence done on a players character which should be the case for all signings but seems to have become as farcical as our transfer policy itself in recent years.

 

[Bilbo]

I know that United are in a different place in terms of the pull factor for potential transfers but I must confess to being uneasy with the idea that we might sign anyone who is not desperate or at least keen to come. I still have not recovered from the Angel Di Maria signing under Louis Van Gaal, when we brough in an undoubtedly world class player for a c£60m fee who simply went through the motivations and departed before the start of the next season. Across town, I also remember the debacle of the Robinho signing at Manchester City. A player who seemed not to even know which club he was signing for!

Fast forward to the ongoing Frenkie De Jong saga. If a player wants to trigger a move, they will get their agent to put out unambiguous messages to the press. For example: "player X would be keen or is open to a move to club Y". The player themselves might even send an unsubtle 'come and get me nod and wink' to the suitor club eg: "I am flattered by the interest from [insert club name here], but I am currently a [insert club name here] player". However, this does not seem to be the case with De Jong. If anything his public statements seem to imply that he wants to remain at the Catalan club, whilst seemingly resigned to the fact that he may be sold. That's not to say that I do not believe that a deal will be done, I strongly expect that it will. However, does he really want to be at United? I doubt it.

It's a tough one I know, because right now, like most United fans I just want to see good quality signings. But given where we are and where we are trying to, would you ever risk recruiting a player that was not desperate to come?

You still haven't recovered from Di Maria? Really?

Every club has transfers that don't work out, and we'll have more in the future however hard we try to avoid it.

 

[Ekeke]

Desperate? Yes of course. But if we let them know we're interested and they say no thanks I want to stay where I am then its time to move on

 

[fps]

I broadly agree with you.

I will say though that sometimes clubs buy players to stop others having them too. If De Jong has to leave Barcelona, he has to go somewhere, and will be a little unhappy wherever that is. Now, Man Utd seem to be the only interested club and it makes me very sad that this would be a marriage of convenience for him and nothing else.

But if he's going to be unhappy somewhere, I'd rather this than that he goes to Arsenal or Man City, clubs I think he improves.

 

[Jack-C20]

In an ideal world but even then I don’t think it’s that black and white. Is it guaranteed that a signing will be a success if they’re desperate to come? Is it guaranteed a signing will be a flop if they don’t?

There way more to it in my opinion. If we’re talking about De Jong, surely he can be a better player here with a team built around him rather than at Barca where he’s squeezed into a system.

 

[youmeletsfly]

I know that United are in a different place in terms of the pull factor for potential transfers but I must confess to being uneasy with the idea that we might sign anyone who is not desperate or at least keen to come. I still have not recovered from the Angel Di Maria signing under Louis Van Gaal, when we brough in an undoubtedly world class player for a c£60m fee who simply went through the motivations and departed before the start of the next season. Across town, I also remember the debacle of the Robinho signing at Manchester City. A player who seemed not to even know which club he was signing for!

Fast forward to the ongoing Frenkie De Jong saga. If a player wants to trigger a move, they will get their agent to put out unambiguous messages to the press. For example: "player X would be keen or is open to a move to club Y". The player themselves might even send an unsubtle 'come and get me nod and wink' to the suitor club eg: "I am flattered by the interest from [insert club name here], but I am currently a [insert club name here] player". However, this does not seem to be the case with De Jong. If anything his public statements seem to imply that he wants to remain at the Catalan club, whilst seemingly resigned to the fact that he may be sold. That's not to say that I do not believe that a deal will be done, I strongly expect that it will. However, does he really want to be at United? I doubt it.

It's a tough one I know, because right now, like most United fans I just want to see good quality signings. But given where we are and where we are trying to, would you ever risk recruiting a player that was not desperate to come?

Nah, let's just find young upcoming football players solely based on if they're a United fan or if their dream is to play here.

On DeJong, never ever in your life when someone offers you a job you take it instantly. We're talking about millions here and a boy and his agent who are not idiots. You'll always want to say "I will stay at Barcelona" for two specific reasons.

Firstly, what happens if nobody agrees a price with Barcelona and you've came out and said to the public you want to leave? Isn't that a bit of an "egg on face" moment?

Secondly, you will always play the hard to get boy for the other club to offer you massive money.

Stop making dumb threads.

 

[Lee565]

It's so weird because in the early years of psg, and man city throwing money at players that were clearly going there for the money like silva, cavani, toure, aguero etc... they still actually performed really well for them, same even for Newcastle now with players choosing to go to them for money but actually putting in the performances and getting them away from the relegation zone.

where as us on the other hand when we throw money (big salary) at players like pogba, di maria, sanchez, varane, schweinsteiger, ronaldo etc.. they either played half heartedly for the club, want out very quickly after just a season or just take the piss out the club.

The only big difference I can see with us and the oil rich clubs in their early years is that the players the oil rich club acknowledge that the clubs actually have the ambition to be the best by investing the training facilities, youth set up, every area of the staffing department, you don't get that vibe from our club under the glazers who are content with champions league football and clearly don't look to hire the best in every department of the club and have neglected investing in the facilities and stadium and then we get players and even managers accusing the club of lacking ambition and being lagging behind top clubs in terms of evolving with modern football.

 

[Abraxas]

Nah, let's just find young upcoming football players solely based on if they're a United fan or if their dream is to play here.

On DeJong, never ever in your life when someone offers you a job you take it instantly. We're talking about millions here and a boy and his agent who are not idiots. You'll always want to say "I will stay at Barcelona" for two specific reasons.

Firstly, what happens if nobody agrees a price with Barcelona and you've came out and said to the public you want to leave? Isn't that a bit of an "egg on face" moment?

Secondly, you will always play the hard to get boy for the other club to offer you massive money.

Stop making dumb threads.

This is a bit unreasonably rude. I don't think it's a dumb thread and it is not just about De Jong. There is a wider point to it which is to what extent do we want to see players highly motivated to come at the outset and whether that is significant or not. That is certainly something within the realms of debate.

 

[AndySmith1990]

We can't expect players to be desperate to join us. It's a job first and foremost, most of the players we sign aren't going to be United fans. At the end of the day as long as we target players who are professional and have a strong work ethic that's good enough. We don't put a gun to their head when they sign a contract, so if they join us they clearly aren't that against it

 

[Pexbo]

I think people are failing to realise that a lot of the talk of players not being interested is agents doing their work for their players, ensuring we’re persuading them with high personal terms.

 

[Nick7]

I think people are failing to realise that a lot of the talk of players not being interested is agents doing their work for their players, ensuring we’re persuading them with high personal terms.

Yup, this.

 

[georgipep]

Nah, let's just find young upcoming football players solely based on if they're a United fan or if their dream is to play here.

On DeJong, never ever in your life when someone offers you a job you take it instantly. We're talking about millions here and a boy and his agent who are not idiots. You'll always want to say "I will stay at Barcelona" for two specific reasons.

Firstly, what happens if nobody agrees a price with Barcelona and you've came out and said to the public you want to leave? Isn't that a bit of an "egg on face" moment?

Secondly, you will always play the hard to get boy for the other club to offer you massive money.

Stop making dumb threads.

You expect too much of the average redcafe poster

 

[VP89]

Its more complicated in this scenario but I dont blame the club for trying. I think 3 other clubs doing business super early has pissed people off more.

 

[The Boy]

I think a lot of people forget that there is a huge grey area between desperate to come and wouldn’t touch it with shitty stick.

players like anyone else changing jobs have a lot to weigh up. Erikson is a good example.

 

[shamans]

Never understood this logic.

An in demand player will have 6 clubs after them. Why would they be desperate for you? If anything if a player is desperate for us I see it as a red flag almost.

 

[kouroux]

Nah, let's just find young upcoming football players solely based on if they're a United fan or if their dream is to play here.

On DeJong, never ever in your life when someone offers you a job you take it instantly. We're talking about millions here and a boy and his agent who are not idiots. You'll always want to say "I will stay at Barcelona" for two specific reasons.

Firstly, what happens if nobody agrees a price with Barcelona and you've came out and said to the public you want to leave? Isn't that a bit of an "egg on face" moment?

Secondly, you will always play the hard to get boy for the other club to offer you massive money.

Stop making dumb threads.

Great breakdown. Players are more often than not mercenaries and understandbly so

 

[MalaysianRed7]

Has there ever been a high profile player who desperately and openly didn’t want to go to a particular club still be a success after joining the club? Genuine question.

 

[fps]

Has there ever been a high profile player who desperately and openly didn’t want to go to a particular club still be a success after joining the club? Genuine question.

I think usually these transfers of players in their primes between massive clubs don't tend to happen. The younger player looking to move to "a big club", make that step, and become a legend, is probably more open to a number of clubs, and will probably keep their counsel a little more. Often they come from clubs that want to do their transfer business more quietly so they can continue to develop and sell on top talent, too. It's when you're trying to pry players from Madrid or Barcelona that there are particular problems - either the player doesn't really want to go, or even if they do the presidents and egos at these places make things public, because they know this does nothing to hurt the prestige of the club, and may in fact enhance it. As a result, mostly you don't get these kinds of debates and pronouncements played out in public like this.

 

[fps]

Has there ever been a high profile player who desperately and openly didn’t want to go to a particular club still be a success after joining the club? Genuine question.

I can't imagine Sanchez wanted to leave Barcelona?

 

[hobbers]

Not if we're going to waste 2 months of the summer solely on them and then be ritually humiliated every time the move breaks down.

 

[Catt]

Not if we're going to waste 2 months of the summer solely on them and then be ritually humiliated every time the move breaks down.

When were we humiliated?

 

[MalaysianRed7]

I can't imagine Sanchez wanted to leave Barcelona?

The problem with Sanchez, and indeed Ozil now that you’ve mentioned an Arsenal player from Barca or Real Madrid, is that they knew that they were surplus to requirements having seen their clubs buy Neymar and Bale respectively, so left willingly. Hence, they both did very well for Arsenal, especially Alexis. The same player then came to us just because we offered a higher wage than City having originally wanted to go to City and flopped terribly.

Therefore, that is the gist of my concern with De Jong. He has essentially been transfer listed and is clearly still not keen, and the only reason he will come here is in order to not have to take a wage cut. It doesn’t bode well, especially when things inevitably get rocky in a young new manager’s first (transition) season in an unfamiliar league.

 

[Real Name]

If we would try to get only players who are desparate to come, whatever that means, it would be very few players to chose from and not how you conduct business.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Great breakdown. Players are more often than not mercenaries and understandbly so

We all are when it's about money. If I wanna leave a company, I'll go to interviews, sign with someone else and then go and tell my boss I quit, otherwise why bite the hand that feeds you?

Somehow, for the average football fan, when a normal bloke does that, it's okay, when a football player does it, suddenly "he doesn't wanna come", "he doesn't fancy it", "we should buy players who really want to play for Man United".

 

[fps]

We all are when it's about money. If I wanna leave a company, I'll go to interviews, sign with someone else and then go and tell my boss I quit, otherwise why bite the hand that feeds you?

Somehow, for the average football fan, when a normal bloke does that, it's okay, when a football player does it, suddenly "he doesn't wanna come", "he doesn't fancy it", "we should buy players who really want to play for Man United".

Football is different. Though many of us love our jobs, very few of us have jobs that we would do for free in our spare time if we could. And very few of us deal in salary negotiations where the wages are so high that they are essentially irrelevant to the quality of life we would have, in footballers' cases that being, whether £200,000 a week or £300,000 a week, "An insanely high quality of life".

 

[kouroux]

We all are when it's about money. If I wanna leave a company, I'll go to interviews, sign with someone else and then go and tell my boss I quit, otherwise why bite the hand that feeds you?

Somehow, for the average football fan, when a normal bloke does that, it's okay, when a football player does it, suddenly "he doesn't wanna come", "he doesn't fancy it", "we should buy players who really want to play for Man United".

If a player loves the club and wants to play for it then it's a welcome bonus.