Bolt and Rooney have won numerous titles; Wenger has won, in his entire managerial career...three. And none beyond domestic titles. No European title of any kind despite over 30 years in management. Only in the small pond that is the PL could there be any talk of Wenger's 'legacy'.
Should Wenger be sacked?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
he was twenty minutes from a champions league title. in those twenty minutes he stood on the sideline. the idea that what happened on the pitch (something he had very limited control over at that point) for twenty minutes or not happening changes his legacy is reductionist.
Wenger never even managed to win the league back-to-back once in all his time there either. Legacy.
I am actually surprised he's "only" won 3 PL. Thought he was more successful than that.
Still a good achievement but not really statue and legacy building stuff
Wenger has completely failed in Europe, his legacy will always be in England - The Invincibles and the FA Cup wins.
It's funny to watch their decline, but their situation really is miserable.
There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding them. Some players want to leave this summer, 2 of their best players are out of contract next year. No one really knows how the future looks for Arsenal, it must create a weird enviroment for the players and i can honestly see them ending up even worse than last season.
Wenger should have left the club this summer, possibly even before. Everyone can see that Arsenal need something new and fresh, and i think that includes not only the manager, but also the people that run the business.
There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding them. Some players want to leave this summer, 2 of their best players are out of contract next year. No one really knows how the future looks for Arsenal, it must create a weird enviroment for the players and i can honestly see them ending up even worse than last season.
Wenger should have left the club this summer, possibly even before. Everyone can see that Arsenal need something new and fresh, and i think that includes not only the manager, but also the people that run the business.
To this day, I have never understood why Wenger went away from the one thing that gave him success. A team of hard-working (but brilliant) footballers with so much power that they could both out-play and out-muscle every opponent. And a team consisting of 6-7 players who all were brilliant leaders like Adams, Keown, Vieira, Petit, Henry, Bergkamp, Campbell etc
Now they have a group of players who shirk their responsibility, and no muscle or leadership on the pitch.
Now they have a group of players who shirk their responsibility, and no muscle or leadership on the pitch.
He has also won titles where he rode his luck too. It balances itself out.
Other than that one final where they were still lost to a superior side, his European record has been beyond poor.
Even Sir Alex lamented how his own record in Europe could have been better. Compare that to Arsene.
I don't think you're right about that. The respect for Wenger's achievements and football - the style was a huge part of it, even in Europe, even though he's never won anything there - was worldwide. It's just that he, ahem, overstayed by 10 years. And counting.
He should have walk away in the summer but instead he stays on and continue to be stubborn in his own way. The way he set up his team yesterday with no plan in mind to counter Liverpool's pressing just showed how bad his preparation was.
I almost feel bad for him at this point. Can't wait til we play them, we're gonna flatten them.
What great international titles has Rooney ever won with England. His performances have generally been average at best, except when swatting aside world beaters like Lithuania & Iceland's.
so he 'almost' won a CL, like he 'almost' signed x y z
It's too late now, the board is a complete farce. A blind man could see the decline in Arsenal and half of their fans were vocal on wanting him out....they didn't qualify for the CL and he still got a 2 year contract.
They always seem to be in this position of letting their top players get within 12 months remaining on their contract as well, it's just complete miss management from top to bottom.
Even before kick off yesterday when the teams were announced, I've never seen such a poor squad from Arsenal it's just full of mediocre players and the ones who are decent seem to want out. It's a huge mess, they need to find the quality to replace Ozil and Alexis and even that won't be enough, there are 4-5 other players in that squad who need replacing.
They always seem to be in this position of letting their top players get within 12 months remaining on their contract as well, it's just complete miss management from top to bottom.
Even before kick off yesterday when the teams were announced, I've never seen such a poor squad from Arsenal it's just full of mediocre players and the ones who are decent seem to want out. It's a huge mess, they need to find the quality to replace Ozil and Alexis and even that won't be enough, there are 4-5 other players in that squad who need replacing.
For me the defining moment and the one that pretty much sums up Arsenal and Wenger was the £40,000,001 Suarez bid. Just imagine where they'd be if they'd had him, even if for a couple of years?? The epitome of their arrogance and stubbornness.
For once, just once, I would have liked them to have made a 'you know what, feck it!' signing. A £70m or £80m stellar signing...a statement of intent. Have they ever broke a transfer record??
I feel sorry for the fans who have been fleeced for years. I said it before...Wenger will be gone by Jan 1. He should preserve whatever shred of dignity he has left and just go, poor fecker!
For once, just once, I would have liked them to have made a 'you know what, feck it!' signing. A £70m or £80m stellar signing...a statement of intent. Have they ever broke a transfer record??
I feel sorry for the fans who have been fleeced for years. I said it before...Wenger will be gone by Jan 1. He should preserve whatever shred of dignity he has left and just go, poor fecker!
Board is weak, Wenger past it as he is is the only thing holding the mess together simply because he runs everything from top to bottom.
Once he goes, the club collapses as there is nothing behind him of substance.
Imagine Fergie retiring, then times the resulting aftermath 10 fold.
Once he goes, the club collapses as there is nothing behind him of substance.
Imagine Fergie retiring, then times the resulting aftermath 10 fold.
shouldnt even be a question..if they have any ambition,they should just bite the bullet and sack him..
It's the folly of ego, ego when you fail to see the forest because of all those damn trees in front of you. Trying to emulate a legend like sir Alex is his most stupid goal- ALex was a different animal- he was self-renewing, he evaluated himself and his team harshly. He knew which players had to leave, which ones were to come in and there were no sacred cows- Beckham, v Nistelrooy, Keane, Yorke, Staam, etc... and ultimately, he knew when to leave, on his own terms!
Can anyone seriously think Wenger will and can do anything different at le Arse? Nice and pretty football, great flicks and style, one-touch football...... going nowhere! The Arsenal board really bottled an obvious decision this summer which may regress their club by a further two years if Wenger remains
Imo wenger is harming that team in double ways.
1. He has lost it when it come to team selection, lacazatte on bench, players not playing at proper position, not understanding the opponent strength like going 3 at the back against 3 of Liverpool's front 3. The list can go on. Same tactics whether its liverpool, stoke, Barcelona, champions league, home, away ..no change.
2. Players like ozil and others are getting no criticism, because wenger is having all the blame and deservingly so. But that gives a free ride to players. You go on their fan tv or forum and all they talk about wenger nobody says anything about players. I dont think klopp would tolerate that sort of desireless display from any of our players.
1. He has lost it when it come to team selection, lacazatte on bench, players not playing at proper position, not understanding the opponent strength like going 3 at the back against 3 of Liverpool's front 3. The list can go on. Same tactics whether its liverpool, stoke, Barcelona, champions league, home, away ..no change.
2. Players like ozil and others are getting no criticism, because wenger is having all the blame and deservingly so. But that gives a free ride to players. You go on their fan tv or forum and all they talk about wenger nobody says anything about players. I dont think klopp would tolerate that sort of desireless display from any of our players.
He doesn't care, the same is with Sanchez. They are happy to lose week in week out colleccting their pay-checks and go for free, Ozil even more then Sanchez. They should sell both and reinvest if possible mecause if they really go with those two as their main players into next season it could go horribly wrong and Wenger will be responsible for that.
As for other players, if there is no good gameplan they are not quility of not delivering. They simply are not coached as they should be and simple result is they don't play as good as they should.
As a United fan, 'uck NO, give him another 20yr contract.
Never mind sacked, Wenger should be put on trial for crimes against Arsenal FC!
At this moment in time, Wenger is the worst manager in the football league. No other manager is so out of touch with modern tactics, no other manager has failed for 10yrs to address key areas, no other manager spends £50m on a centre forward and leaves him out for your biggest game of the season to date, no other manager picks a LWB at CB whilst you have a £35m CB sat on the bench and no other manager allows a situation to develop where 4/5 of their best players actively want to leave and yet are still selected to play.
I've got no love for Arsenal but for some reason even I am livid with Arsene Wenger. The arrogance of the man to think he can continue in this way whilst the club rots around him is stunning. £10m a year and yet the team looks like its been selected out of a hat and their "tactics" would embarrass the manager of a pub team
At this moment in time, Wenger is the worst manager in the football league. No other manager is so out of touch with modern tactics, no other manager has failed for 10yrs to address key areas, no other manager spends £50m on a centre forward and leaves him out for your biggest game of the season to date, no other manager picks a LWB at CB whilst you have a £35m CB sat on the bench and no other manager allows a situation to develop where 4/5 of their best players actively want to leave and yet are still selected to play.
I've got no love for Arsenal but for some reason even I am livid with Arsene Wenger. The arrogance of the man to think he can continue in this way whilst the club rots around him is stunning. £10m a year and yet the team looks like its been selected out of a hat and their "tactics" would embarrass the manager of a pub team
He's a really handsome old man
I think his time at Arsenal is up, the longer he stays on the more his reputation at the club is going to be tarnished with the fans. He looks a bit lost and clueless at times, out of touch and almost unaware of what is happening on the pitch. Winning the FA Cup helped him a bit last season but Arsenal fans are getting a bit tired of FA Cup/Top 4 finish being the ceiling of the club's ambitions, rightly so.
If Sanchez is still there at the end of this transfer window it will be a surprise, he is wasted in that team.
If Sanchez is still there at the end of this transfer window it will be a surprise, he is wasted in that team.
He is like Clough by now.
They are on the verge of completely falling apart. Another year without cl football and Sanchez, ozil, cech, mertesacker, wilshere, chamberlain and cazorla will all be gone. Probably so will wenger.
Complete rebuild on the cards. Kroenke won't know what hit his wallet.
Complete rebuild on the cards. Kroenke won't know what hit his wallet.
Mertesacker already said he is gonna retire in 2018.
I can't think of any player that has improved under Wenger in the last few years.
That's fecking damning.
That's fecking damning.
He should have been sacked last season instead, they gave him a new contract. 
I suppose when you're allowed to appoint your own boss that's how it goes.
I suppose when you're allowed to appoint your own boss that's how it goes.
Spot on. One thing is the transfers (or lack thereof) but his idealism is constantly getting in his way it seems. He has his way of playing and seems to completely ignore the opposition. Sure, Arsenal can play beautiful football at times, but playing the way he did against Klopps high pressing side was tactical suicide and what happened? They got put to the sword
Wrong thread title. It should be " why is Wenger still at Arsenal? "
Why bring England into it? Rooney has at least won a Champions League when he played a good role and was near his peak. Wenger reached 2 finals in 20 years (2000, 2006) and lost both.
It's astonishing that he has won only three Premier League tiles and he has been talked about along with the greatest managers like Jose, Pep Guardiola, Sir Alex Ferguson and Carlo Ancelotti while in reality he has one legacy and that legacy is his longevity which is completely undeserved.
If I was one of the board members at Arsenal the first thing that should be in my mind would be Diego Simeone. The man can do wonders with the club and keep the wage structure in place that the board at Arsenal is desperate for.
He's a brilliant technician, is a brilliant man manager and he is brilliant in the league against the big boys Real Madrid and Barcelona with less than half the resources of those two clubs and yet he has been reaching more Champions League finals and progressing more in Europe then the Premier League clubs that are spending around 200 million each and every summer.
I still think the Arsenal fans went too soft on him when things started to get better near the end of season while I think they should have gone harder and should have forced the man out of the club, there is no disgrace in that as he deserves it.
If I was one of the board members at Arsenal the first thing that should be in my mind would be Diego Simeone. The man can do wonders with the club and keep the wage structure in place that the board at Arsenal is desperate for.
He's a brilliant technician, is a brilliant man manager and he is brilliant in the league against the big boys Real Madrid and Barcelona with less than half the resources of those two clubs and yet he has been reaching more Champions League finals and progressing more in Europe then the Premier League clubs that are spending around 200 million each and every summer.
I still think the Arsenal fans went too soft on him when things started to get better near the end of season while I think they should have gone harder and should have forced the man out of the club, there is no disgrace in that as he deserves it.
Sign him up.
Depends on how much Wenger has lost the dressing room. If he has lost it like Mou had at Chelsea or Moyes at Man Utd and players were deliberately under-performing, then yes, he should be sacked.
If its 1 or 2 players, then its ok to back Wenger. But if it is most of the players, there is only one person who could go.
The Arsenal board could have done the work all season to find replacement and asked Wenger to leave after last season. Instead they gave him a new contract and backed him. So there is no reason to change that stance just 3 matches into the season, unless players are revolting.
If its 1 or 2 players, then its ok to back Wenger. But if it is most of the players, there is only one person who could go.
The Arsenal board could have done the work all season to find replacement and asked Wenger to leave after last season. Instead they gave him a new contract and backed him. So there is no reason to change that stance just 3 matches into the season, unless players are revolting.