I see what you did there.
Should Wenger be sacked?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Luckily it is all recorded on youtube, please see ArsenalfanTv. It is even there in the heading. Us United fans do not need to play make believe to make ourselves feel better.Where are Arsenal fans with countless ''options'' (its called opinions, if you're going to call people muppets then its best to have a coherent grasp of basic grammar) saying we have had a better season than Spurs?
You have Arsenal ''friends'', maybe like the same ''Manc supporting mates'' RAWKites have?I have been a game-going Gooner longer than you probably even started watching football, the amount of dislike towards Wenger is obvious and has been obvious for years now. Minority fans from every club will claim they will win the league each year from Liverpool to Arsenal, but no serious Arsenal fan ever had the delusion of a league win, other than it being a very outside chance.
How many times have we heard this shite, Arsefans are being taken the piss out of by Venger and the board so much I almost feel sorry for them, we e done some stupid shit recently but at least it looks like we've learned something from the feck ups, but I believe the powers that be at Arsenal know exactly what they're doing and they just don't give a feck which is disgusting, and I fecking hate Arsenal.It’s a two-year deal. Do you know yet what happens after that?
We don’t. Football is constantly evolving, constantly changing. This is a two-year deal so we are looking at at least the next two years. Again, at some point of course we will have to transition to the era beyond Arsène and that is not a sentimental connection that we have, that is a connection that is driven by what is best for the football club. I will say this, this is not just the club not being sentimental, this is Arsène not being sentimental either. Arsène would not make this commitment if he did not believe he could push this club forward. That is an assessment we continue to make as we move into the future, and who knows what the future holds.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170531/-our-aim-is-to-win-the-premier-league-
Have to admire the sheer drive in the man. I can see this going tits up quite rapidly, but the over-reaction to his extension has been most amusing.
Funny,he is shopping for value,refuse to overprice it a bit to get his man, while in same time he is, i guess in top 5 paid managers on fecking planet . Guess compared with his results he is good value in his old fart head. He really have nice deal with board,money grabbing whores all of them,while looking Arsenal fans from above like they are bunch on peasants.
. Guess compared with his results he is good value in his old fart head. He really have nice deal with board,money grabbing whores all of them,while looking Arsenal fans from above like they are bunch on peasants.Arsene Wenger's regime has been identical to what an apple is like,initially the apple is green and it has potential to be a really good one,then gradually it attains the best condition it can be in i.e ripe and juicy, then if it is not eaten at the right time gradually it starts to decline and starts to rot and during this process it destroys other apples which are kept within it's vicinity. The biggest enemy of Arsenal is Arsene Wenger himself.
I do think the Arsenal situation sums up the unrealistic expectations that can be placed on managers.
As a neutral, Arsenal look to me to be the 4th or 5th biggest club in the country. This season they finished 5th and won the FA Cup. Good season surely?
However, as Wenger has vastly over-performed for 20 years, instead it's apparently cause for him to be sacked. This is a manager who has won 25% of Arsenal's league titles and over 50% of their FA Cups. Of 27 major trophies won in Arsenal's 120 odd year existence, Wenger has won 10 of them.
When Wenger does leave, the likelihood is that Arsenal won't continue the current level of success. I suspect it will swiftly be realised what an outstanding job Wenger was really doing.
As a neutral, Arsenal look to me to be the 4th or 5th biggest club in the country. This season they finished 5th and won the FA Cup. Good season surely?
However, as Wenger has vastly over-performed for 20 years, instead it's apparently cause for him to be sacked. This is a manager who has won 25% of Arsenal's league titles and over 50% of their FA Cups. Of 27 major trophies won in Arsenal's 120 odd year existence, Wenger has won 10 of them.
When Wenger does leave, the likelihood is that Arsenal won't continue the current level of success. I suspect it will swiftly be realised what an outstanding job Wenger was really doing.
This has to be seen in context. Things like "stability" and "consistency" are seen as virtues because they are supposed to be a platform for success. Wenger's "stability" has turned arsenal into a hamsterwheel.
Spurs have exceeded them now, on a lesser budget. So have liverpool this season.
The one time all the big clubs fell apart for various reasons (city going on hollies while waiting for guardiola, mourinho battling relegation, united being van gaaled), Arsenal still couldn't pull themselves together for an easy title win, despite being the only team around with no excuses (they had the manager they wanted, the team they wanted, experience and had played together for years). Now the year after, they are sinking another notch down the swamp.
Arsenal should be more than the 4th/5th biggest club in the league by now. Maybe if that meant sneaking a title or CL trophy every five years or so, that'd be ok. They aren't though. The FA Cup doesn't cut it at length.
renewing = wenger in
Coincidence?
Coincidence?
So much efforts from the "Wenger out" camp all season
It's like Wenger can't live without Arsenal so they have to keep him.
I feel managing Arsenal is a drug for Wenger - a drug he's addicted to.
I Still don't understand why, on the 18th of March he said "Don't worry, I know what I will do in my future, you will soon know. Very soon."
Why did he not say there and then that he was staying? What was the idea in making such a big deal of it? Arsenal have had two and a half months of him and the journos dancing around him even admitting that the uncertainty (which he himself had created) was distracting the team.
I think he genuinely thinks he is bigger than the club.
Anyway, I am glad he is staying because I think it has been clear for 10 years that he is the cause of their mental fragility and whilst he is there, that carries on.
Why did he not say there and then that he was staying? What was the idea in making such a big deal of it? Arsenal have had two and a half months of him and the journos dancing around him even admitting that the uncertainty (which he himself had created) was distracting the team.
I think he genuinely thinks he is bigger than the club.
Anyway, I am glad he is staying because I think it has been clear for 10 years that he is the cause of their mental fragility and whilst he is there, that carries on.
Do you ever go on Untold Arsenal mate? They're still firmly behind Wenger and the site owner Tony Attwood is forever claiming that those who want him out are part of the AAA (the Anti-Arsenal Arsenal) - http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/62022
Anyone who dares criticise Wenger on there - no matter how constructive their arguments - tends to get rounded on and shot down. I know it's not my club but I actually have a fair bit of empathy for Arsenal fans regarding the Wenger issue and I think it's disturbing that the Untold Arsenal website would adopt such a firmly entrenched stance and actively discourage those that have an alternative opinion - "If you don't like what you read on here, then why bother visiting the site?" seems to be the general tone if anyone disagrees with them. Don't get me wrong, I think some of the vitriol directed towards Wenger has been over the top but many Wenger outers are still turning up at games and getting behind the team during the match from what I can gather.
My guess is that because they were on such a poor run at the time, if they'd announced he was staying at that point then the situation with the fans would've turned far more toxic than some of the stuff we've seen with the banners/demos, etc. 18th March was when they lost that game 3-1 at West Brom, and the suspicion has been that they were waiting for an upturn in results before announcing it. The international break followed that WBA game and it couldn't have come at a better time for them. The first game after that break was at home to us (City), and they got a 2-2 draw out of it so it wasn't the worst result in the world. I felt we let them off the hook that day and should've killed the game off in the first half but as the game wore on they grew in confidence and from there they had a good end to the season - although they didn't qualify for the CL most of the damage was done before they embarked on that decent run and winning the FA Cup gave them the perfect opportunity to announce the extension. Not only that, doing it at the end of the season means Arsenal fans haven't got any more games coming up to protest about it and so will have to wait until next season, at which point many will have calmed down somewhat.
The reason for the delay was there was a split opinion on the board as to a change in the management setup, with some pushing for the installment of a DoF position. Wenger was totally against it and up until a few weeks ago was still making noises in press conferences against it.
The cup win and moreso the total lack of any provision by the board of any plan for anyone else other than Wenger to manage the team next season saw Wenger finally get his way this week. There are no shareholders on the board other than Kroenke and he's always been a Wenger man so it was predictable really. Ornstein was saying today that the Usmanov offer for Kroenke's 67% was substantially larger than what was reported last week in the press too so i can't see Stan leaving anytime soon.
Things could turn ugly by August if this summer follows the pattern of the last few.
The cup win and moreso the total lack of any provision by the board of any plan for anyone else other than Wenger to manage the team next season saw Wenger finally get his way this week. There are no shareholders on the board other than Kroenke and he's always been a Wenger man so it was predictable really. Ornstein was saying today that the Usmanov offer for Kroenke's 67% was substantially larger than what was reported last week in the press too so i can't see Stan leaving anytime soon.
Things could turn ugly by August if this summer follows the pattern of the last few.
For sure. No one would ever appoint him as manager.
We had a 100 mil offer for Mbappè rejected. James Olley confirmed it.
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100 million French Francs?
A typically Wenger thing to do - put a bid in for Mbappe knowing full well it'll be rejected, but hoping it'll go some way to showing intent.
A bid that was never going to succeed, coz bigger bids had been rejected. Ask yourself, why did Arsene bother with that?
He ain't stupid our Arsene.
100 million magic beans.100 million French Francs?
Wenger
Apparently, we didn't bid for him. Just the usual bs going through the media.
its typical arsenal to underbid and show that they are 'trying' so they can turn around to the fans and say 'at least we tried'
Typical bullshit. They did it with higuain and suarez and a few others. Bidding in the knowledge that they know it will get rejected just to appease fans and make it look like they are busy in the market.
I actually find it hard that Monaco would reject a 130million offer from City and Madrid. No team in the world would reject that sort of a fee for any player in the world bar Messi and Neymar.
Surprisingly, I find that story to be more bs than Arsenal bidding 100million on a teenager
Surprisingly, I find that story to be more bs than Arsenal bidding 100million on a teenager
"We tried, but we couldn't"
I keep on hearing "arsenal will fall when wenger leaves" as if that's an indication of his quality but my interpretation is, if his successor(s) fails, it's because wenger left behind a poor squad, a poor mentality and a poor foundation.
Another half defence is that wenger has done well to qualify for the CL but my question is:who has he been competing against? Pre-mourinho it was just him and fergie. When chelsea started challenging, there were three spots available then four to include themselves, liverpool, us and chelsea.
Liverpool then fell away to be replaced by a ascending city so the equilibrium was maintained. Simultaneously, spurs threw in sporadic but never 'real' challenges. An outsider in Leicester staked a claim but that didn't threaten arsenals position as it was our turn to fall away from grace as well as chelsea.
My point is that it's interesting that when wenger has faced equal competition with limited spots open...he's failed. That's why I don't think that achievement is so incredible.
Another half defence is that wenger has done well to qualify for the CL but my question is:who has he been competing against? Pre-mourinho it was just him and fergie. When chelsea started challenging, there were three spots available then four to include themselves, liverpool, us and chelsea.
Liverpool then fell away to be replaced by a ascending city so the equilibrium was maintained. Simultaneously, spurs threw in sporadic but never 'real' challenges. An outsider in Leicester staked a claim but that didn't threaten arsenals position as it was our turn to fall away from grace as well as chelsea.
My point is that it's interesting that when wenger has faced equal competition with limited spots open...he's failed. That's why I don't think that achievement is so incredible.
Apparently, Mertesacker is set to retire. Wenger should have taken notice from him.
Why does Wenger do it to himself (and Arsenal)? He's rich, cultivated, has his hinterlands. Why can he not imagine a life where he is not managing Arsenal?
Poor sod is probably institutionalised.
Pragmatism for one, delusion that he can turn it around another. The man needs to be slammed in the board room level hard and straight, so he go to the dressing room look them in the eye and tell them what he really think about them and throw a table or two make a fuss and do something, Drop em, call in a 17 yo to play while benching ozil and sanzhez that will send a message. But no, he rather shit by the sidelines.
Lots of people who devote their lives to their careers are like this. Plus, Arsene's unbelievably stubborn.
Truly this
But Wenger behaves like he has all the options and stresses of the self-employed. It's a shame it's going to end so badly, though I'm delighted a giant rival is in obvious decline.
Any legacy has completely gone now. Most great things have a decline but you remember the good stuff as they don't outstay their welcome. Rooney wasn't far off being remembered as shit but he left just in time I reckon to always be remembered as the great player he was. If Bolt ran in the next 6 Olympics getting made a fool out of in the heats his legacy would be slightly tarnished. But, he has left at the right time admitting he isn't up to it anymore and people won't remember the 1 bad championship but the world records etc.
Wenger just keeps staying on when he clearly is long past it. Why on earth is he doing it to himself? His legacy now is more about the shite, consistent mediocre seasons and humiliating results at rival teams than it is about his early successes. It's been 10 years now of the same old mediocrity. If he'd have quit in 2006 he'd be some kind of mythical figure at Arsenal. Now he's a washed up mess. Very sad to see.
I think Wenger was proven to be finished after the 2009 CL semi final where United abolsutely battered Arsenal. That was 8 years ago now. It's literally the equivalent of Bolt running the next 8 Olympics and getting nowhere near where he once was. He obviously wouldn't do that to himself. Why is Wenger doing this to himself?
And if Usain Bolt ran the next 8 Olympic Games he'd be 63 by the end and would probably be about 5x slower than his own World Record. The gap between that Arsenal team today and the peak Wenger team of 2004 is greater. They aren't fit to wear the same shirt and Wenger has to walk.
Wenger just keeps staying on when he clearly is long past it. Why on earth is he doing it to himself? His legacy now is more about the shite, consistent mediocre seasons and humiliating results at rival teams than it is about his early successes. It's been 10 years now of the same old mediocrity. If he'd have quit in 2006 he'd be some kind of mythical figure at Arsenal. Now he's a washed up mess. Very sad to see.
I think Wenger was proven to be finished after the 2009 CL semi final where United abolsutely battered Arsenal. That was 8 years ago now. It's literally the equivalent of Bolt running the next 8 Olympics and getting nowhere near where he once was. He obviously wouldn't do that to himself. Why is Wenger doing this to himself?
And if Usain Bolt ran the next 8 Olympic Games he'd be 63 by the end and would probably be about 5x slower than his own World Record. The gap between that Arsenal team today and the peak Wenger team of 2004 is greater. They aren't fit to wear the same shirt and Wenger has to walk.
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He should be sacked but so should the board. I genuinely couldn't bring myself to support United if I thought the top priority was anything other than winning. I get that it is a business but the business comes 2nd, albeit a close 2nd i'd imagine in today's football climate. It is so obvious that Arsenal decided years ago that they have a minimal bar for success and usually Wenger hits that. This isn't a coach that develops leaders. As mentioned earlier today on television he inherited a squad full of leaders 20+ years ago. They slowly left over time and he never replaced them. The only way this gets fixed is if Arsenal gets bought out. His players show the same type of fight that he does. That isn't surprising. He is a great coach. He is a horrible club manager.
I always believe that Wenger has unfinished business because he has always tried to emulate SAF and create a legacy as great as SAF's. However, he has created a legacy, but his achievements are not as great as SAF's. He tried to create his own fledglings with Faregas, Denilson, and Diaby 10 years ago and the experiment did not have a lot of great success. I think he is still trying to emulate SAF and United by trying to create the Arsenal culture of beautiful football. The United culture of attacking football won trophies, the Mourinho culture of organized football won trophies, but Wenger's culture has not. He should have just faced the reality and walked away that his legacy will not be as great as SAF's.
Thats a load of sensationalism bs. He is a stubborn man, nothing to do about us or SirAF.