People keep bringing up United after Fergie as if finishing 7th is a given after losing a long-term manager. Just because we fecked up that transition doesn't mean others will. Anyway, with United the only way post-Fergie was down, with Arsenal there's far more upside with a potential change.
Should Wenger be sacked?
- Thread starter VP89
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Of course not. Tie him down to a long term contract. His Arsenal team are really good for comic value.
They paid off the debt and it`s 3 years now that they can spend more and they still don`t. He said he`s happy that he can spend now but he still doesn`t. After 10 years of not spending to buy players now they have a bigger issue now. The salary limit that they had for 10 years is the issue now. They have the money to renew both of Sanchez and Ozil`s contract but they can`t because if they do it means that they have to raise everybody`s contract which will cost them their best players. Now they need a few years to break the limit they set before slowly and who knows how much Man Utd or City or chelsea are willing to spend at that time.
Anyway, that`s not my point. The point is the whole idea of the new stadium was helping Arsenal to be in United, Madrid, Milan, Bayern and ... level. They already were a big club but they wanted to be a giant. But now they don`t even challenge for the title it is always top 4 for them. I`m not saying that building a new stadium was a bad idea, I`m saying with Wenger in charge they can`t achieve what they wanted.
Why dont Arsenal put Wenger on sabbatical for a season? New guy comes in. He does well or he doesn't. If he fails, longcoat regains his job. If he succeeds, the crumpled fag packet can 'retire' honourably without the shame of having been given the boot. Bingo bango bongo. Everyone's a winner.
My thoughts exactly. with the owners being so stingy and Wenger being an expert on making it work on a budget, it's quite an dilemma for them.
I believe this is what is happening behind the curtains. The board have a spending cap and are happy with just being in top 4. Wenger knows this and is happy to oblige. The whole drama about Wenger leaving might even be orchestrated by the board and the manager just to show fans that they are ambitious. In the end, he'll sign a new contract and everyone is happy except the Arsenal fans.
What does a club of arsenals size mean? Arsenal are only this size because of wenger. In the 21 years before him there were only 4 seasons where the club won the league or the fa cup.
As an Arsenal fan, I have nothing but utmost respect for the man because he has been responsible for the rise in Arsenal's profile for the last two decades. We are a lot bigger than we were when he arrived and he takes bulk of the credit for that.
That said, watching the same season unfold for the last ten years (with atleast 3 different squads of players) is very frustrating and Wenger has to be held responsible for that (even though I think the board and it's stinginess and lack of ambition is also vert much to blame). I think he'll leave at the end of this season regardless of him being offered an extension or not.
It's time to try something different even if we lose out on the top 4 for a couple of years. I think we have enough $$$ in the bank to get through a couple of non CL finishes.
I just yearn for a season that doesn't pan out like the typical Wenger season for the last decade.
That said, watching the same season unfold for the last ten years (with atleast 3 different squads of players) is very frustrating and Wenger has to be held responsible for that (even though I think the board and it's stinginess and lack of ambition is also vert much to blame). I think he'll leave at the end of this season regardless of him being offered an extension or not.
It's time to try something different even if we lose out on the top 4 for a couple of years. I think we have enough $$$ in the bank to get through a couple of non CL finishes.
I just yearn for a season that doesn't pan out like the typical Wenger season for the last decade.
I put No but it's because I think there is a third option.
Arsene Wenger has earned the right, like Sir Alex, to decide when he wants to leave. I think they should allow him that option rather than sacking him. I think it would be a rather ignominious end to a great tenure at Arsenal if he were to be sacked. Perhaps after this season Arsene might feel himself he has taken the club as far as he can and leave of his own accord. I think if they finish outside the Top 4, that is something I can certainly see happening.
Arsene Wenger has earned the right, like Sir Alex, to decide when he wants to leave. I think they should allow him that option rather than sacking him. I think it would be a rather ignominious end to a great tenure at Arsenal if he were to be sacked. Perhaps after this season Arsene might feel himself he has taken the club as far as he can and leave of his own accord. I think if they finish outside the Top 4, that is something I can certainly see happening.
Jose was right. Wenger is a specialist in failure. If he was manager of UTD, Chelsea or City he would have been fired without a doubt. No way any of these clubs would have given him 20+ years. Football is about trophies, and being fourth is not a trophy. If Jose fails to win the league for 3 years he will be fired and rightly so. Those are the standards of a serious club with ambitions in today's football landscape.
He should step down.
He hasn't done enough in the last decade to deserve to keep his job, but I think out of respect sacking shouldn't be an option.
He hasn't done enough in the last decade to deserve to keep his job, but I think out of respect sacking shouldn't be an option.
It comes down to what Arsenal want. If they want to continuously get top four and qualify for the champions league then stick with Wenger.
But if they want that plus to actually challenge for the title and to win trophies then they need to bring someone else in.
But if they want that plus to actually challenge for the title and to win trophies then they need to bring someone else in.
It will be a hard day if Wenger is sacked. He's done a lot for the club and this is something that cannot be forgotten. Having said that he doesnt have it in him to take this Arsenal side all the way. Just don't see them bagging a title anytime soon. Pretty sure Arsenal fans would not mind his departure.
Although he was great for them in the past, they're not going to win a PL title whilst he is in charge, so don't sack him.
If Arsenal finish outside the Top 4 this season, he's probably a goner (or a gooner)
If Arsenal finish outside the Top 4 this season, he's probably a goner (or a gooner)
Think Wenger is still a class manager, and would do a great job for any/most clubs in the world.
That being said, i think his time at Arsenal is up as they've either outgrown each other or just fell apart (without it sounding like a love story)
He's too stubborn & the modern English game isn't exactly well suited for his style any more.
That being said, i think his time at Arsenal is up as they've either outgrown each other or just fell apart (without it sounding like a love story)
He's too stubborn & the modern English game isn't exactly well suited for his style any more.
Leicester are regularly competing with Chelsea/City/United?
He's spent fortunes on Özil and Sánchez, the money must be there.
The grind going from 4th to 1st is insane, the minuet difference in a team that finishes 4th and one that finishes 1st is tiny. I mean realistically the only difference between Arsenal finishing 4th and finishing 1st is a strong world class defensive midfielder.
HOWEVER,
going from 4th to 5th,6th,7th is a lot easier. Not much has to happen for the free fall to start. Look at Rafas last season with us, was the generally the same team that finished second I think, mostly. Xabi and Hyppia werent there.
In this respect I think Wenger should be praised, and if you told me Wenger would win the league in the next 3 years, I wouldnt be surprised. Theyre not far off.
If they bring a new manager in things will have to get worse before they get better, he'll have to strip down Arsenals team to build it in his image, that'll take time, and in the process they could fall out the top four.
I said yes but I hope it's not so... need my ArsenalFamTV fix every now and then 
Its a catch 22 for Arsenal. Sack Wenger and they will do a Liverpool. There is no one out there who will fit the bill. It would take too much time for someone to stamp their own playing style and the fans will be on their back too quickly. It may take a few Managers to get sacked before they get to where they want but then everyone else is going for the same thing. I don't see any other managers leaving their Clubs in the top tier of football because they all have just signed up to new contracts with clubs that are winning things anyway.
He has to leave at some point but its going to take a revelation of a manager to improve over and above what Wenger is doing.
He has to leave at some point but its going to take a revelation of a manager to improve over and above what Wenger is doing.
Out of interest, hypothetically how good a job do people think Wenger would do at a team like Real Madrid (to be very specific).
They could almost sign any player they wanted (fax machine pending)... and more importantly keep them there. I wonder if he would still approach the market in the same way.
I guess we will never find out either way, but it would have been great to have seen him leave Arsenal years ago to try his luck elsewhere.
They could almost sign any player they wanted (fax machine pending)... and more importantly keep them there. I wonder if he would still approach the market in the same way.
I guess we will never find out either way, but it would have been great to have seen him leave Arsenal years ago to try his luck elsewhere.
I voted yes but only in the sense of requesting for him to retire rather than a traditional sacking. Its a big club the fans deserve to think they might be in the title race but season after season its the same with Wenger.
He should have grabbed other job offers as they came and ttied to win a title elsewhere.
Saying that if Fergie had got to this situation id have been for him staying no matter the consequence.
He should have grabbed other job offers as they came and ttied to win a title elsewhere.
Saying that if Fergie had got to this situation id have been for him staying no matter the consequence.
I disagree. They won the League twice in the decade before Wenger took over. In the same time they also won both domestic cups and the ECWC. They were already a bona fide big club and given the growth of the game in the last 20 years Arsenal would have had no choice but to expand in the way they have done (specifically the stadium), Wenger or not.
Now consider a run of (final league positions) 1-2-2-2-1-2-1-2 before he got bored of challenging for top spot and went 4-4-3-4-3-4-3-4-4-3. Even taking in to account last season's runner-up spot (behind Leicester) that is clearly not progress, quite the opposite and to me progress is the minimum a football fan should expect from their club.
It depends entirely on where they finish this season.
They've had ample opportunity to sack him for not mounting a proper title challenge, so it seems a bit harsh to suddenly make that the criteria now, in a season where one team is running away with it. However, despite saying for the best part of a decade that they don't care about winning things because they play the best football, the fans have clearly changed their tune and want to see some tangible reward for their football that's more than another season in the Champions League. Sooner or later the board will have to listen to that.
If Arsenal qualify for the Champions League again this season, unless Wenger steps down and retires, I think one more season and a summer of financial backing to mount a proper title challenge should be afforded to him. If that happens and in February 2018 they're sat off the pace then I don't think there could be any real complaints. If they don't qualify, then I don't see why he should remain past this season.
That said, whenever he does go, I think it should be handled as him choosing to retire or step down at the end of a campaign rather than sacking him mid-season. He's earned that much.
They've had ample opportunity to sack him for not mounting a proper title challenge, so it seems a bit harsh to suddenly make that the criteria now, in a season where one team is running away with it. However, despite saying for the best part of a decade that they don't care about winning things because they play the best football, the fans have clearly changed their tune and want to see some tangible reward for their football that's more than another season in the Champions League. Sooner or later the board will have to listen to that.
If Arsenal qualify for the Champions League again this season, unless Wenger steps down and retires, I think one more season and a summer of financial backing to mount a proper title challenge should be afforded to him. If that happens and in February 2018 they're sat off the pace then I don't think there could be any real complaints. If they don't qualify, then I don't see why he should remain past this season.
That said, whenever he does go, I think it should be handled as him choosing to retire or step down at the end of a campaign rather than sacking him mid-season. He's earned that much.
If I were an Arsenal fan I would be going ballistic. I am very, very anti-sacking usually because I think a manager needs 3 seasons minimum before you can even judge their impact but Wenger has been embarrassing for years now. It's not the fact that they haven't won the league it's the fact that they haven't come close - and those talking about money forget that Wenger has splashed enormous sums of cash at times on the likes of Sanchez, Ozil and Xhaka
So? What does that say about the ability to splash on multiple world class players like United have done, or Chelsea and City have the ability to?
Wenger would leave with the house in order. I think Allegri might do well at Arsenal, his pragmatic approach would suit the next-step-forward task nicely. He is learning English, he is interested in managing abroad and now experimenting the Wenger trademark 4-2-3-1 with satisfaction for all the parties (players, management, fans).
The 3 teams you mention have won every Premier League title (with the exception of last season) since Arsenal last won it. 11 between them and 1 for Leicester since Wenger last won it. For a club of that size, with the players they have and the ticket prices they consider acceptable, I don't think at the very least one PL title in that time is too much to ask.
I don't understand the logic of, 'but what if the grass isn't greener' - as in, what if Wenger's successor fails? Or 'look at what happened to Manchester United.'
Because it's a decision that Arsenal are going to have to take sooner or later. All that the board are doing in keeping Wenger is maintaining the status quo, which they are evidently very happy with - but at some point they have to face the music.
It's like ripping off a plaster, you just have to get on with it.
I, like many others, are tired of even talking about Arsenal. They're boring. And the situation is boring.
What I'd find most infuriating if I was an Arsenal fan, is that with the right man in charge and under progressive ownership, they could have it all. But as it is, they risk being eclipsed by Tottenham, both on and off the pitch, in the coming years if they don't wake up.
A not insignificant part of me wants to see that happen, because the blame would lay entirely at the feet of Arsenal themselves.
Because it's a decision that Arsenal are going to have to take sooner or later. All that the board are doing in keeping Wenger is maintaining the status quo, which they are evidently very happy with - but at some point they have to face the music.
It's like ripping off a plaster, you just have to get on with it.
I, like many others, are tired of even talking about Arsenal. They're boring. And the situation is boring.
What I'd find most infuriating if I was an Arsenal fan, is that with the right man in charge and under progressive ownership, they could have it all. But as it is, they risk being eclipsed by Tottenham, both on and off the pitch, in the coming years if they don't wake up.
A not insignificant part of me wants to see that happen, because the blame would lay entirely at the feet of Arsenal themselves.
What makes you think wenger is working on a budget? 4th highest wage bill in the league, a whopping £80M more than what spurs pay. Arsenal's wage bill is closer to the mancs and chelsea(in fact, it's not far off) than liverpool, has been for years. When you look at the money they spent on transfers over the last four seasons, again, they're fourth, closer to 3rd than 5th. Wenger has done and is doing nothing special, no matter how you look at it. If anything, he's regularly failed to take chances when they presented themselves. Out in round of 16 of CL against monaco in 2015. Couldn't challenge leicester into april last season...
The idea that wenger is doing anything other than an adequate job is ludicrous. Any good manager can get those same results. Afterall, they are the 4th biggest spenders in the league
Let's back up for a minute here, Arsenal fear the same fate as us when Wenger leaves. He's been around for a long time and only he knows the clubs every need by now. Also they have seen how we have struggled in the last 3 years to get out of the hole. I'm definitely not saying SAF and Wenger are the same because as a United fan i should be insane to do that but i know when managers leave after a long term, it is quite difficult for a club to bounce back from it.
Wenger should stay for one last year and help the club find a good replacement for him, he should train or be in touch with the nest manager in line and show him the ways the club is run but of course the new one will change the team and other little things but that freedom will be given to him when Wenger resigns. He certainly should not be sacked after doing so much for Arsenal. My whole life has been his tenure at the club and Arsenal have always always been a threat home and away. He always like attractive football and never played defensive.
Football fans should obviously appreciate his deeds. He's a great manager.
Jose is ruthless, so is Arsene but it works for only for a few.
(for a long time during my young fan days i thought Arsenal was named after Arsene)
Wenger should stay for one last year and help the club find a good replacement for him, he should train or be in touch with the nest manager in line and show him the ways the club is run but of course the new one will change the team and other little things but that freedom will be given to him when Wenger resigns. He certainly should not be sacked after doing so much for Arsenal. My whole life has been his tenure at the club and Arsenal have always always been a threat home and away. He always like attractive football and never played defensive.
Football fans should obviously appreciate his deeds. He's a great manager.
Jose is ruthless, so is Arsene but it works for only for a few.
(for a long time during my young fan days i thought Arsenal was named after Arsene)
Should Wenger be sacked? Of course he should if that was any other top flight football team he would of gone already. The issue is he keeps the board happy. He continuously archives champions league football with minimal outgoings in transfers. He has managed to keep the club ticking over on a small budget. He kept the team ticking when the club where investing heavily in a new stadium with out requesting huge sums of money for wages and transfers. This has elevated him to a god like status among the board.
However in recent years there has been more and more unrest among the fans who now demand the results. They feel they have waited through the relocation of the club and the money is now there to spend on players to improve their chances of winning silverware. Yet they sit stagnating. Not getting worse, not getting better just sitting whilst every one around them spends, builds and improve. They are stuck with a manager who wants football to go back to how it was and not the beast it is turning in too.
If we have to wait that long till our next championship with one manager we would be calling for heads to roll.
However in recent years there has been more and more unrest among the fans who now demand the results. They feel they have waited through the relocation of the club and the money is now there to spend on players to improve their chances of winning silverware. Yet they sit stagnating. Not getting worse, not getting better just sitting whilst every one around them spends, builds and improve. They are stuck with a manager who wants football to go back to how it was and not the beast it is turning in too.
If we have to wait that long till our next championship with one manager we would be calling for heads to roll.
You think he would have no input whatsoever?
Madrid hire coaches not managers. I think mourinho was the one who had the biggest influence over transfers.
Thanks for ignoring the question.
All evidence points to the board being content with the status quo, and not spending money to keep up with United, City and Chelsea. As long as their behavior doesn't change, removing Wenger to appease the fans has a small probability of success and a high probability of failure or mediocrity or the same 4th place. Again, if they were that upset they should boycott, but for some strange reason this doesn't happen...
As a fan who follows the Serie A, how much do you rate Allegri?
I think the poll would have been better if it asked if he should get a contract extension(current one finishes in the summer)
If he wins the CL, he gets the chance to discuss plans with florentino and then watch him ignore him and do whatever he wants. Otherwise, he works with what he's given and that's it
He is very smart and improves on the job, this year CL will define his legacy at Juve. On paper, we are behind Madrid, Barca and Bayern while on par with Atletico, City, Dortmund and PSG, but he showed in 2015 and 2016 campaigns he can do quite well against the very best: knocked out Dortmund and Madrid in 2015, won both games vs City and nearly knocked out Bayern in 16R 2016. We will see.
Better coach than wenger. Not sure you want him in charge of transfers(he never was) and he's always had injury problems