Sir Alex Ferguson
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I don't get people saying that Fergie can't be hypocritical while also stating at the same time that man is no saint! Of course he isn't! He hasn't reached where he is by not showing a bit of a double standard. He has done it all for the club ( and for some because it helped build his legend). i don't care. The reason I started following and supporting United was because of the great man.
Some of us love to underplay and even portray the man as the epitome of what has gone wrong over the past year or what his interference might lead to. Not for me and for a lot us younger generation who view the man as the sole reason we started following United. He might have had his flaws but why do we United supporters choose to focus on his very limited flaws baffles me. And as stated before United for me is defined by Fergie. No man might be bigger than the club but Fergie deserves that leeway and respect. And any United related person who tries to slag of Fergie looses credibility and respect because whatever he has contributed pales in respect to what the great man has given us generation upon generation of fans.
And if winning is all that matters, it doesn't separate us from any other clubs be it City or Chelsea. Sorry for such an arbit rant but it does my head in whenever a United fan slags of Fergie be it for leaving a supposedly weak team behind or for calling a referee "fat and unfit" to prove a point he is not a saint. We will never realise how lucky we were to have him until our next generation it seems
Edit: Spellings
Some of us love to underplay and even portray the man as the epitome of what has gone wrong over the past year or what his interference might lead to. Not for me and for a lot us younger generation who view the man as the sole reason we started following United. He might have had his flaws but why do we United supporters choose to focus on his very limited flaws baffles me. And as stated before United for me is defined by Fergie. No man might be bigger than the club but Fergie deserves that leeway and respect. And any United related person who tries to slag of Fergie looses credibility and respect because whatever he has contributed pales in respect to what the great man has given us generation upon generation of fans.
And if winning is all that matters, it doesn't separate us from any other clubs be it City or Chelsea. Sorry for such an arbit rant but it does my head in whenever a United fan slags of Fergie be it for leaving a supposedly weak team behind or for calling a referee "fat and unfit" to prove a point he is not a saint. We will never realise how lucky we were to have him until our next generation it seems
Edit: Spellings
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A large part of it boils down to some fans being bitter he flipped them off over the FC United thing. Hence why some seem to want to condense his entire legacy down to 'didn't sign a midfielder' and 'Bebe'. The desperation to somehow tarnish his legacy is a bit sad but thankfully few really pay much attention to it.
What I liked about SAF is he managed Scotland for a bit before he came a top dog here
why is that a reason to like him?
I doubt it's a few. The amount of people who have tried to blame Fergie for failing to sign a MF ignoring he worked with what he found comfortable and failed to realise mortals would struggle with is a stick to beat him with. A lot of people might have seen the "obvious" fact that the MF was weak or signing Bebe was a waste of money but fail to take into account that the man was a genius and for him that MF was sufficient as evidenced by our PL wins or his confidence to transform a player with no professional experience to a good one. He might have got that wrong but it wasn't the end of the world and certainly not to be used as a reason to blame him for Moyes incompetence
It is a few. Just that those with an axe to grind tend to do it louder than those who don't.
What axe would they have to grind with the man? That he won more trophy than anyone else? That he helped us experience more success than our wildest imagination? That he felt that United was greater than the men who owned the club (similar to the fact that the club is greater than the player or manager?)
Believe me some of the older generation love him just as much. When you lived through the 70's and 80's supporting Man Utd. The desolate years where we hoped for the odd cup every now and then just to have something to shout about. Then you would know why I love SAF as much as I do.
I know that we were blessed to see him spend the best part of his career managing Our great club, turning it into the most dominant domestic force English Football has ever seen, 13 Titles in 20 seasons.
For me he is the greatest manager to ever live. I know that some out there will say Busby, but I was too young to really remember anything about the Busby era.
So I'll say again Thank You Sir Alex for the last 20 years.
I know some of us do. But it hurts me to have the man fielded as the sole agent of our decline (be it the MF or not leaving a good enough team) over the last year. The man is a legend and like great players who get us on our feet when they have the ball he should be accorded the same level of respect and protection from people.
Yes! Thank You Fergie for the years of success and happiness that you have given for the countless years.
there is a saint? Who?
LOL.. Who is a footballing saint on this planet? Name one please. Thank you!
Give Moyes 4 or 5 world class players, what do you think he would do with them? Clean their shoes? Remember we gave him a whole class of champions and he took us to 7th, and out of Europe.
We all know that SAF had not interfered even when it was Moyes. There are no reasons he would when it comes to LvG.
That said, I still believe LvG would have too much respect for SAF to be telling him off even SAF said something. After all, SAF is Man United. It's like SAF wouldn't have told Sir Bobby off, right?!
I like your thoughts, and totally agreed.
So what he didn't sign a midfielder. I don't see why that detracts from his brilliance. Look how far he got us with our shit midfield.
Didn't read it.
If van Gaal was to win two European Cups during his tenor, where would he be considered among the Manchester United greats? The level below Ferguson and Busby?
I doubt he'll be around long enough for that. If he did though, yes.
I do not seeing us winning 1 European cup for united during his time, let alone 2.
I think there is allot of work to be done on this squad, it is going to take us 2 years to get to a champions league, and may 2016 to get to the final, that will make him 64. I think our champions league drought will last longer than 1999 - 08, count up the years we last won a european cup 2008, its now 2014. My view is we will surpase the 8 year threshold from our last european run without winning it. The midfield needs rebuilding, the defense needs reshaping. Within that 2 year period RVP turns 33, rooney turns 30, so already by the time we get into the CL our main strikers are in their 30's. So overall, LVG needs 3 years to rebuild a squad that needs a huge facelift, which fergie left it a complete mess, and Moyes accelerated the decline.
Fergie also recommended david Moyes who has set the club backwards by atleast 3 years, no champions league football for 2 years, he signs fellaini who has no place in the MUFC engine room, and we have a 27 million pound dud, he got rid of vidic too soon, gutted our backroom staff. So a combination of fergie and moyes defiantly has given LVG a bigger job to do tha what it should have been done.
I doubt it is going to happen given the ferocious level of competition in the Champions League but LVG would probably occupy his own niche, aside from the two father figures. A bit like how Liverpool distinguish the founder of the modern version of their club from his successor who refined the inheritance to conquer Europe repeatedly. I realize the analogy doesn't quite work given Fergie was also a trophy winning machine and Paisley had been Shankly's assistant but you get the drift hopefully...
Yeah, it was all hypothetical anyway. I do think van Gaal can conquer Europe once before before he retires...
Van gaals legacy is taking us back where we belong, and seeing a change in our youth setup and transfer setup, after the mess the 2 scots left the club in. Fergie's lack of spending in key positions, and Moyes just sending us crashing out of the europes elite, has given Van gaal a huge job to do
Yes. He could win 4 on the trot, and he'd still be in another category than Sir Matt and Sir Alex.
This European Cup fixation is letting the Scousers set the agenda.
7-18. No club in any sport rose and absolutely obliterated their opposion the way we did, Season in, season out; no knock-out luck. Just totally destroyed them.
Fergie left us as champions. This narrative that he left a mess of a club is just nonsense.
It was hardly a great united side though. United's last great side was the 07/08 side.
Could't agree more.
He left Moyes in a perfect situation and he said 'you're the heir apparent', Moyes just arsed it up.
Go check that summer 2013 squad, and you are telling me in the next few years we were going to get away with it?
when our midfield consisted of - carrick fletcher anderson cleverly scholes giggs valencia nani young kagwa
Sooner or later it catches up with every top club with a midfield depth like that, no way could we continue to compete with midfield options that we had that summer
Most managers could only dream of taking over a club like Utd. It was in a great position and needed at most 3 additions for last summer. This would be nothing unusual for a new manager to buy 3 players.
I cant think of many cases where a manager takes over a club in such a good condition. Maybe Pep and Bayern. But Utd was not far off.
Perfect is being very generous. He allowed much of the team to grow old together and with some weaknesses that were far from easy to fill. Moyes didn't exactly distinguish himself but the fact remains he arrived to a team with that needed significant work (or at least under any manager that wasn't Fergie).
He has a very high opinion of himself and I imagine that, as part of this last crack at managing an elite club, he is at least contemplating a serious challenge in Europe at some point. We all know the squad is some way off that level but by bringing in some more quality signings and improving some of our current players, it is not beyond the realms of possibility. If Liverpool 2005 did it, Chelsea 2012 did it and Atletico 2014 were 2 minutes from doing it, I don't see why a team managed by LVG with serious financial backing can't do it. After all, we have just had a 4 week demonstration of his abilities at getting a team to overachieve in a cup competition.
Ferguson assembled a team Ferguson could succeed with. What was he supposed to do imagine he was vastly incompetent construct a team from that starting point?
Moyes had plenty of money to fill any holes.
I agree with Waltraute. Yes the midfield was an issue but all Moyes had to do was get in a couple of midfielders and we were sorted. Then this summer he could have worked on the defence.
It was all set up for him on a plate, he had every possible opportunity to be a success in an environment where he would have been afforded time. Moyes made a mess of it but Fergie left him a great chance.
When Fergie retired most of us had far more belief in the younger players
Was I the only one who saw Rafael - Smalling - Jones - Fabio as our future back four and Cleverley to be key in midfield?
Couldn't disagree more.
He left the club with almost all our best and most important players either nearing retirement age (Rio, Evra, Vidic, Giggs) or being nudged towards leaving the club (Rooney)
The best of the rest were the wrong side of 30 (Carrick and RvP) or recovering from a debilitating illness (Fletcher)
After that, the squad consisted of a bunch of players who might one day be United quality but blatantly a level below the players who play the same positions in the best XI of our CL rivals (Hernandez, Cleverley, Welbeck, Smalling, Jones, Rafael) or players who were once destined for great things but probably have their best days at United behind them (Nani, Valencia, Anderson)
Oh and Shinji Kagawa - whichever category he belongs to.
Basically, it's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at things that the squad which last won the league was destined for greatness. Quite the opposite, if anything. I know it's comforting to blame Moyes for all our woes and assume we'll be right back to our former dominance under a competent manager but I think a lot of people on here are underestimating the scale of the task facing Van Gaal.
I can't imagine where you got that from. I'm not suggesting he should have done anything differently really. He was entitled let Moyes sign his own players.
But it wasn't a perfect handover. Not even close. It was a pretty standard handover. Work to do, as is usually the case.
No. I thought so too. Turns out we could well be completely wrong.
It was all about himself at the end. He wanted to go out a winner and didn't give a feck about anything else. Didn't he lie to RvP about not retiring?
Spot on.
I dont really go along with that
Why did he buy Powell and Zaha if this was the case?
Also he decided to retire at xmas time after RVP had been at the club a few months
I agree.
Still he should have done better mind. In the Summer when he fecked up immensively in the market and during the season. A top 4 should have been possible.
Still you are right, this team needed an overhowl and still does. I dont think Moyes was ever the right man to,do that though. I believe with LVG we might have the right one to give those a chance that can bring us back where we belong and kick the rest out faster than they can think.