People seriously believe the inability of our £150k+ a week players to play simple 5 yard passes is because of coaching?
Sloppy passing and touches
- Thread starter Solius
- Start date
Passing seems to be something that needs to have a fresh touch and motoric memory to it. It needs to be done constantly, every day. Steph Curry didn't become outrageous 3-point shooter because he had a great technique and had his drills. He shot hundreds and hundreds of 3-pointers every day.
I am sure that peak Barcelona perfected the passing every day. It's just that we don't because our focus is somewhere else. I am very, very certain that Brentford players are not as skilled as United's are, it's just their focus is somewhere else.
I am sure that peak Barcelona perfected the passing every day. It's just that we don't because our focus is somewhere else. I am very, very certain that Brentford players are not as skilled as United's are, it's just their focus is somewhere else.
Mental exhaustion is the reason because they have to do it on their own most of the time.
If you watch training sessions of your City's, Liverpool's, Bayern's... there is a greater emphasis on passing drills and more knowledge and attention to detail imparted on that aspect of the game. Is it a coincidence that under Van Gaal, United looked the most comfortable they had done in possession in the past decade? no. Only problem was, LVG's passing was very conservative but he could coach a side to keep the ball well.
Having said that, there is a limit to how much coaching can help. You can't put lipstick on a pig but then again that comes back down to the coaching in the sense that you need to pick the right players in your team that put due care in their passes. We do not have many players of that ilk in our side.
Having said that, there is a limit to how much coaching can help. You can't put lipstick on a pig but then again that comes back down to the coaching in the sense that you need to pick the right players in your team that put due care in their passes. We do not have many players of that ilk in our side.
I still think it's coaching. Not tactical or training issue. It's when coach/manager becomes irrelevant. His messages not getting to players. Do we remember Jose's last couple of months at MU? I think we are getting to the point when we start seeing cracks in relationships between manager and players. I might be wrong but.......
Exactly. It's clear as fecking day that our players look clueless as to what to do on the pitch most of the time, we have no structure and plan that actually works.
Whatever we try to do doesn't work most of the times and the players are left trying to figure it out on their own.
It’s definitely a coaching issue. You see plenty of smaller teams with inferior players pass and control the ball competently and make less errors on a regular basis than we do.
Players take zero responsibility? I’ve seen them all miss place simple passes. Bruno did it yesterday when we could have broken away and it caused their best shot in first half. Changing manager isn’t going to change some of these school boy errors we make multiple times every game. Maybe it’s the fan base losing the plot every time something doesn’t go right?
This place is completely unbearable when we’re not doing well. Wall to wall idiocy.
So what's your explanation, genius? That our top players are actually shite and can't string a few passes together? Talk about idiocy, maybe look in the mirror first.
You see this is one of the reasons I’d rather we signed a Verratti or Modric type player for midfield than a Rice because a calming influence would help the entire team and passing ability is very important to taking the next step. At the minute everything in midfield is very rushed and hectic even when Matic comes on the football is a little better but he’s too old now, imagine a peak Scholes for example the passing would improve 10 fold throughout the team with a passing influence in there like that.
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Shaw and Maguire were both fantastic for England in the summer. @Lyng the passing of Maguire was superb.
It's simply got to be to do with the coaching.
It's simply got to be to do with the coaching.
They take some responsbility but when it's all of them, including some of the best players in the world, there's obviously a problem from the top down. Managers affect mentality at the end of the day, through motivational qualities and getting the team ticking over tactically. Both those things affect confidence, drive, focus - all things would contribute to shit passing.
You do not seem to understand that balls are passed into space. Now all them can pass around if they are standing still. It is the movement off the ball of the receiver that is the problem. On the move. That is drilled into them and is a strictly coaching issue. Just like how we always feck with the corners and opposition counter attacks. If both our full backs are forward of the ball all the time, if there is a turnover it is bleedin obvious they will be caught out and our CBs left to their own to cover the space of the FBs plus their own.
You seem to struggle with multiple things but we’ll leave that before I break a rule eh.
Odd callback but fair enough.
Individual basic errors in game - definitely down to the man stood on the touchline.
'Individual genius' - definitely not down to coaching.
It's like people daren't admit we might have more than just the issue of who the manager is because they've put all their eggs in that basket.
Its not even like I’m defending the coaching in here. Just pointing out a different problem but you just get a barrage of the current hot topic.
Got to be a bit of both but I do agree that a lot of the time it’s just the player playing a bad ball.
You can see a lot of the time a pass is on to play it a few yards in front of the receiving player but McT for example will generally play it behind and slow so totally stopping the flow.
Varane is trying to speed it up, missing out the other CB and playing it straight to the FB at least, but in general we are just a very safe passing side.
What should a manager do when players keep making these mistakes?
You put Scholes in this team and it still would be the same if AWB and Shaw keeps running forward of the ball all the time and there is a turnover. There is no structure and that is why it happens. Under SAF we can out pass any team. If it is physical we are physical. If they try to play football we can play football. We had Anderson and Cleverly in midfield and out played a lot of teams. We had O'Shea and Phil Neville in midfield. We even had the two Silva twins in midfield and won matches. It has everything to do with the coaching and the structure. It is not about coaching how to pass from one player to another. It is when to pass and where to move.
Yep and also multiple times where a pass between the lines is on and we choose not to do it. Or a player just doesn’t see the run. This admittedly is part player vision and part coaching.
I honestly don’t know but that’s probably why I’m not a manager.
Say that you have 0 arguments and are clutching at straws without actually saying it. Sorry I hurt your feelings, almighty moderator, Sir.
Yes? Most managers coach players where to pass and where a player needs to be on a pitch to pass/receive a pass. Like this post is from 1990 or something.
It’s been an issue for a long time. The only manager who made us better at passing and possession is LVG. Too bad he made us terrible at other important things, like chance creation!
I think generally our play is rushed, passing, shooting, crossing, all of it. We’ve been outshooting opponents yet lagging in xG for a similar reason, rushing shots instead of creating better openings through quick passing and movement. Ole finally addressed it in his press conference after Villa (how are play is so rushed and how cheaply we give over possession) but it’s been going on his entire time here. We excel at playing vertically when teams allow us by leaving themselves really open at the back, but when they’re not, and we have to move the ball around, pull them out of position, and create openings, we’re pretty terrible.
I think generally our play is rushed, passing, shooting, crossing, all of it. We’ve been outshooting opponents yet lagging in xG for a similar reason, rushing shots instead of creating better openings through quick passing and movement. Ole finally addressed it in his press conference after Villa (how are play is so rushed and how cheaply we give over possession) but it’s been going on his entire time here. We excel at playing vertically when teams allow us by leaving themselves really open at the back, but when they’re not, and we have to move the ball around, pull them out of position, and create openings, we’re pretty terrible.
Impossible to 'discuss' anything else on here.
It's definitely not just the coaching with AWB, Fred, McT and a few more, it's about game intelligence and quality. Bruno is extremly sloppy as well, but he usually makes up for it with moments of brilliance. AWB passing it down the line to no one and out for a goalkick at 92+ minutes when we're trying to put the pressure on them is not just about coaching, that's ridiculous.
I’d really hope Manchester United players can control a football and execute simple passes without the ‘coaching’.
Yes for the more intricate and tougher passes. You’re saying they’re not capable of passing a ball out wide without some coaching? A 5 yard pass in midfield played behind someone is because they weren’t told exactly where to put it?
I think it is just not focusing on the pass. Often they are simple passes we misplace. It is "attention' to detail. Just tapping it in the general direction is not good enough, you have to make the pass.
I think it is cockyness, sloppyness, incorrect mentality on the pitch. Not the same intensity as when Gary Neville spent every game concentrating to make sure that Roy Keane didn't yell at him in front of 80,000 people.
We are not a fully focused intense team.
I think it is cockyness, sloppyness, incorrect mentality on the pitch. Not the same intensity as when Gary Neville spent every game concentrating to make sure that Roy Keane didn't yell at him in front of 80,000 people.
We are not a fully focused intense team.
100% agree
My feelings are fine but my job is to help the forum be a better place by moderating the crap posters. Multiple notes on your profile from various mods and also several warnings for insulting other posters and being overly argumentative. Thanks for making it easy.
...Yes? Because that all depends on how the team is set up and where the plan is to pass balls and where players need to be. Not sure why you keep repeating it like it's going to change. Really think you're taking this topic and people's response to it personally.
I think some people have this expectation of a team that every single pass has to be pre-planned and coaching to the Nth degree. If you think that we’ll have to agree to disagree but I really don’t think some of our misplace passes are because they weren’t told exactly where to pass it at all times. Players are smart enough to do certain things based on how the game plays out.
Read my previous post I didn’t say coaching or training had nothing to do with it but I think a calming influence in midfield would also benefit the team.
Actually it is. You get players to practice what they do on the pitch. You work out the movements on and off the ball. An occasional miss pass is not the issue. It is the repeated occurrence. A good example was when AWB air swiped a cross in the Everton area. That's entirely on him. So was the corner from Bruno. Maybe the mess up of Fred too. But we have huge coaching issues in our way of playing and our structure of the team.
The other issue is that players simply don't listen to the coaches any time. I simply can't believe that happens always at a top club.
I often blame the manager for my poor touches playing Sunday league.
Yes a calming influence would certainly help. When we have Fred bobbing and weaving like a lightweight doesn't help things at all. I also wish he would slow things down and think before he tries to pass.