Last week we would have won if we had a decent ref. I wonder what next weeks "we would have won if" will be.
So basically a Keane and a Cantona away from the top?
- Thread starter MisterLupus
- Start date
Yup I was never all-in on Ole's opening months (not that I didn't love it though and I have to admit I really want him to succeed) as it seemed to me the only thing looking better was the team's enthusiasm - and as the end of that season proved being enthused is not enough so if that's all you have to lean on then you're only one or two bitchslaps away from disaster. I loved the results but felt unconvinced by the performance - but this season I have an almost opposite feeling. I'm impressed with two-thirds of our game but hate the results. Hopefully that means this campaign will be the opposite of that one - starting with frustration then ending in an unparalleled win streak
While it's great to see positivity around here, I think we're a bit further away than that.
Personally I think we need to stick with Ole now, whether or not you believe in his long term vision. Chopping another manager after such a short term would continue this never ending transition, something our already tattered reputation can't afford in my opinion.
I mean, he's onto the right formula - Emphasising potential, mentality & desire above star names, clearing out lingering deadwood etc. We just need to build upon a pretty promising core of youngsters with the right additions this time. I think we're looking at 2 seasons before we can be happy with this squad as top-4 regulars, if we buy smart.
Two CM's, a versatile forward, a LB and a CB is what we'll need I think.
Personally I think we need to stick with Ole now, whether or not you believe in his long term vision. Chopping another manager after such a short term would continue this never ending transition, something our already tattered reputation can't afford in my opinion.
I mean, he's onto the right formula - Emphasising potential, mentality & desire above star names, clearing out lingering deadwood etc. We just need to build upon a pretty promising core of youngsters with the right additions this time. I think we're looking at 2 seasons before we can be happy with this squad as top-4 regulars, if we buy smart.
Two CM's, a versatile forward, a LB and a CB is what we'll need I think.
There is not a single manager out there at the moment regardless of how much time he was given that could turn this clown fiesta side into title challengers except Klopp. I must say the summer window was a fiasco but even so I'm happy with the 3 guys Ole got. However it's an absolute disgrace we ignored so many other areas.
"All in all I'm happy with most of what I'm seeing"
I have no clue how you are mate. I think most of the time we've been nothing but frustrating to watch. So far I see absolutely zero improvement and the horrendous end to last season seems to just go on so far. 3 wins in the last 16.. What the feck is going on here this is worse than the Moyes era. Wether you support Ole or not he needs to get a grip quickly or he will be gone before November. The squad is so incredibly thin and fragile to injuries and if this form continues we'll finish 7th-8th. I'm already dreading our game against Leicester after the internationals...
"All in all I'm happy with most of what I'm seeing"
I have no clue how you are mate. I think most of the time we've been nothing but frustrating to watch. So far I see absolutely zero improvement and the horrendous end to last season seems to just go on so far. 3 wins in the last 16.. What the feck is going on here this is worse than the Moyes era. Wether you support Ole or not he needs to get a grip quickly or he will be gone before November. The squad is so incredibly thin and fragile to injuries and if this form continues we'll finish 7th-8th. I'm already dreading our game against Leicester after the internationals...
The players bought under Ole’s management are performing well.
The rest should begin to feel worried. Ole has to be ruthless and he must be backed.
The rest should begin to feel worried. Ole has to be ruthless and he must be backed.
Sure let's just find a Keane and a Cantona like they grow on trees.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you.Or maybe I'm just a realist who understands the process of what we're currently undergoing. Eye of the beholder and all that
Can't say I disagree with anything you say -except maybe McTominay. But it's not so much a disagreement as to where he's currently at - it's just that I think it'll prove a worthwhile investment giving him this chance as I'm quite confident he'll grow into his groove if he gets enough playtime. What we need is a third option alongside him and Pogba -that's good enough to compensate for his lack of experience. Some skillful hardworking authoritarian with his head screwed on right. Attack too I think people are too harsh on Rashford he's still young and learning his ropes - and it can easily prove fruitful investing in him. But there too we need that third someone capable of providing the vision, maturity and innovation currently lacking. I believe if we get some good candidates in those two areas then we actually have a real solid starting eleven - and then we just need to worry about the depth of our squad.
I do think a couple of proper leaders would change the team. Who’ve we got that would scream at Lingard for dicking about, or Pogba for giving up?
Add a Fergie and a David Gill within that!
I'd agree the urgent concern would be two midfielders and a good number 10.....and a RW. I say two midfielders because i fully expect Pogba to leave next season, especially if this one ends badly. That means one CM to replace him and another to fill the gap we already have.
Secondary concern would be left back, squad midfielder, a striker, and possibly another centre back depending on how Lindelof and Axel do this season.
So that's only about 7 key players away from a good team
Secondary concern would be left back, squad midfielder, a striker, and possibly another centre back depending on how Lindelof and Axel do this season.
So that's only about 7 key players away from a good team
We'll be a Keane and a Cantona away from the top if,
a) Rashford & Martial finally come closer to realizing their full potential, starting by becoming not just good footballers but good players too. Which means link up with their teammates better in tight spaces, use their brains instead of looking only how to finish a move and improve (their quite nonexistent) game outside the box. I'm saying this because their recent contract renewals indicate that the club has put great stock in both of them to become United's next-generation leaders. It's alright to have faith in the potential of young talents and build with an eye towards the future but there will be a lot of growing pains in the present when any manager must find a way to fit two players in the starting line-up who look lively only when they play near/inside the box and only when they are afforded space to exploit. Otherwise, we need a tremendously creative midfield and superb choices on the wings in order to accommodate them.
b) Shaw & AWB improve their game in the attacking half of the pitch and the quality of their deliveries in the final third. Not just to deliver crosses (i don't think we have anyone who can score lots of headers in the team tbf) but mainly to help us circulate the ball purposefully in the final third and therefore add pressure to our opponents by keeping as many men as possible high on the pitch.
c) we solve the Pogba conundrum. Not necessarily play him in the hole. I'm fine with the role Solskjaer has given him and i believe that if he starts tinkering with Pogba's position on the pitch (with our current midfield options on the bench), he'll end up with the same freakshow of a team Mourinho did at some point. Pogba can produce moments of absolute magic with the ball at his feet but he's not the most developed midfielder when it comes to moving without it. Thus, you have to create space and give him time on the ball like his NT usually does. It's not about putting a Keane next to him so much as it is about creating the environment (with movement all around him) for him to play at his best. If, of course, we value highly what he brings to the table. Which i think we should.
I generally agree that we should have had more points on the table than the five we have now. I'll go a step further and say that, imho, Lampard's philosophy at Chelsea (with the squad he's working) can lead to more catastrophic results for his club because despite it being pleasing to the eye, it's way more unbalanced than anything Solkjaer has tried for us.
But the truth of the matter is that we're too many ifs away from saying this or that player will come on and instantly make us better. Today we were a man up and our best option was to constantly create 1v1 situations for James (with all due respect for the kid). That's not good enough no matter how you try to spin it. And your Keane and Cantona will struggle because the players they'll play with (Tony, Rashy the FBs etc.) still have a long way to go in order to become truly top-class players.
a) Rashford & Martial finally come closer to realizing their full potential, starting by becoming not just good footballers but good players too. Which means link up with their teammates better in tight spaces, use their brains instead of looking only how to finish a move and improve (their quite nonexistent) game outside the box. I'm saying this because their recent contract renewals indicate that the club has put great stock in both of them to become United's next-generation leaders. It's alright to have faith in the potential of young talents and build with an eye towards the future but there will be a lot of growing pains in the present when any manager must find a way to fit two players in the starting line-up who look lively only when they play near/inside the box and only when they are afforded space to exploit. Otherwise, we need a tremendously creative midfield and superb choices on the wings in order to accommodate them.
b) Shaw & AWB improve their game in the attacking half of the pitch and the quality of their deliveries in the final third. Not just to deliver crosses (i don't think we have anyone who can score lots of headers in the team tbf) but mainly to help us circulate the ball purposefully in the final third and therefore add pressure to our opponents by keeping as many men as possible high on the pitch.
c) we solve the Pogba conundrum. Not necessarily play him in the hole. I'm fine with the role Solskjaer has given him and i believe that if he starts tinkering with Pogba's position on the pitch (with our current midfield options on the bench), he'll end up with the same freakshow of a team Mourinho did at some point. Pogba can produce moments of absolute magic with the ball at his feet but he's not the most developed midfielder when it comes to moving without it. Thus, you have to create space and give him time on the ball like his NT usually does. It's not about putting a Keane next to him so much as it is about creating the environment (with movement all around him) for him to play at his best. If, of course, we value highly what he brings to the table. Which i think we should.
I generally agree that we should have had more points on the table than the five we have now. I'll go a step further and say that, imho, Lampard's philosophy at Chelsea (with the squad he's working) can lead to more catastrophic results for his club because despite it being pleasing to the eye, it's way more unbalanced than anything Solkjaer has tried for us.
But the truth of the matter is that we're too many ifs away from saying this or that player will come on and instantly make us better. Today we were a man up and our best option was to constantly create 1v1 situations for James (with all due respect for the kid). That's not good enough no matter how you try to spin it. And your Keane and Cantona will struggle because the players they'll play with (Tony, Rashy the FBs etc.) still have a long way to go in order to become truly top-class players.
Sir Alex Ferguson and an RVP would probably get us into the top 4.
There is no such thing as another Keane nor will there ever be, they dont make people like him anymore.
Take the name ‘Manchester United’ out of this team for a second. Think about our most talented players minus Pogba. Every single one of them is a bang average mid table player that operates like this: 90% average skills and low success rate with anything they try and then 10% moments of quality. That kind of split - if you watch other average teams - mimics every single mediocre player at the top leagues. For whatever reason, you reintroduce the name Manchester United and people elevate the teams quality purely based on the players’ 10% display of skill.
In simpler terms - we are an average/below average team full of average operating players.
We will finish 9th/10th and then coast into nothingness like AC Milan.
Shit hasn’t even hit the ceiling yet. In a couple months injuries will hit and I think this forum will hit record lows for attendance. It will be the forecasting of the drop in Ed’s leverage of ‘viewers’.
In simpler terms - we are an average/below average team full of average operating players.
We will finish 9th/10th and then coast into nothingness like AC Milan.
Shit hasn’t even hit the ceiling yet. In a couple months injuries will hit and I think this forum will hit record lows for attendance. It will be the forecasting of the drop in Ed’s leverage of ‘viewers’.
"There are structural issues, with no DoF or long-term transfer strategy, and constant chopping and changing of managers with different visions. Additionally, the scouting network isn't properly identifying players and we have to clear out tonnes of high-paid under-performing players. The chief exec gets his head turned by any shiny new thing, and there is going to be costcutting before new signings are allowed."
"So... we sign Messi?"
"So... we sign Messi?"
It’s really tough though to know what we have because we’ve been so dysfunctional for so long.
How good would Rashford or Pogba look playing for Klopp or Pep?
One of the things we’ve really got to work on is the final third decision making and encouraging more selflessness. So may times our players drill a shot at a players shins rather than finding a teammate in a better position.
Some of our fans are still in the denial phase. "We are just 1 or 2 players away from the top." Has been the mantra of a certain portion of our fan base for the last 6 years.
The football being displayed since Ole has come isn't good enough. I largely think fans and the media are to blame for the fact he got the job in the first place. The plan was always to assess our options at the end of the last season and make a rational decision factoring in a DOF.
Instead fans chanting like idiots for Ole to get the job, Neville and other stupid pundits saying the glazers are under pressure to appoint him full time, then incomes the punchline in the fact they appointed Ole full time WHEN the results started going downhill. It's an absolute calamity this club, it's not just wrong at the lower level of management / coaching it's the upper level.
Everyone knows the glazers won't leave unless the club is sold the only viable changes are to get a manager who's clued up and not of a relegation level. Solskjaer is absolutely useless as a manager give him a technical role / DOF. On field Solskjaer is a disaster off the field he's been the best thing we have witnessed in almost a decade. Ole has the right passion but he's in the wrong lane, he's not top managerial material. I don't care how good of a player you are if top players made world class managers then why has almost 100% of previous United players gone on to have abysmal management careers.
Instead fans chanting like idiots for Ole to get the job, Neville and other stupid pundits saying the glazers are under pressure to appoint him full time, then incomes the punchline in the fact they appointed Ole full time WHEN the results started going downhill. It's an absolute calamity this club, it's not just wrong at the lower level of management / coaching it's the upper level.
Everyone knows the glazers won't leave unless the club is sold the only viable changes are to get a manager who's clued up and not of a relegation level. Solskjaer is absolutely useless as a manager give him a technical role / DOF. On field Solskjaer is a disaster off the field he's been the best thing we have witnessed in almost a decade. Ole has the right passion but he's in the wrong lane, he's not top managerial material. I don't care how good of a player you are if top players made world class managers then why has almost 100% of previous United players gone on to have abysmal management careers.
Having players that are more composed infront of goal would be a start. We're creating the chances just not putting them away.
You can have the best players in the world but you need someone to manage them and Ole can't manage these players who half of them shouldn't be anywhere near a top PL team. fecking bringing on JlingZ and Matic feck of already will ya
The top?? It takes a SAF to beat Pep and Klopp and reach the Top.
But a Keane and a Cantona would certainly make us reach Top3 with ease, while competing in the FA and UCL cups with clear options.
So yes, we need to sign a midfielder and a CF in January.
But a Keane and a Cantona would certainly make us reach Top3 with ease, while competing in the FA and UCL cups with clear options.
So yes, we need to sign a midfielder and a CF in January.
I'd say 3 new midfielders, Pogba will leave, McTominay is the only other player looking likely to be involved in any kind of successful team.
Right Winger and probably cover for the front 3. Probably need a left back, wouldn't count my chickens on right back, hopefully no more cb's and hopefully de gea recovers his form.
Being optimistic we need 5 players.
Right Winger and probably cover for the front 3. Probably need a left back, wouldn't count my chickens on right back, hopefully no more cb's and hopefully de gea recovers his form.
Being optimistic we need 5 players.
I’m not sure why you’re quoting me, as I wasn’t trying to make a list of excuses why we didn’t win.
I'd say we need a (1, 2, 3, 4) Schmeichel, Parker, Pallister... Irwin, Bruce, Sharpe and Ince...
Wouldn’t mind a Rio and Scholes with a touch of SAF on top. (In addition).
Because the next Roy Keane and Eric Cantona are so easy to find and come around every day.I like the way Ole is shaping his squad, I just feel he needs to take a risk or two and also looked experience as well as youth. A balance is needed and it's sadly lacking at the moment.
We are not that bad, I think we need a top class CF, right winger, and midfielder. If we can keep this team together for another season & add to it, we will be in a good place. Ignore people who say we’re crap, they’re talking out of their arse.
I'll raise you a Big Pete and a Scholes, then we'd be challenging.
How bad have those six years without Ferguson been in comparison to the early 80's before he was appointed ?
Biggest thing being that Liverpool is once again in a position of european power and United is miles away.
Biggest thing being that Liverpool is once again in a position of european power and United is miles away.
Another shooting tragedy in the us. But why on this thread not somewhere in general?
Well maybe having a few of our youngsters grow beards would be a start - until the real deal pops up over the horizon I mean.
We’re a world class DM, CM, LW, RW, ST away.
As I said in Another post - if Pogba had played to the normal of his ability, we would have won all our 4 games. I am not saying we have been great - of course not. But we should have won all 4 games. And if Pogba had been playing like he did at times last year - we would have.
I posted it in here by accident.
We are a CM, RW and a number 10 away from improving drastically. i know who i would have.
Next step in the rebuild is:
Garner come good or we get a quality player in.
Gomes comes good or we go for Maddison.
Sancho should be our winger.
Next step in the rebuild is:
Garner come good or we get a quality player in.
Gomes comes good or we go for Maddison.
Sancho should be our winger.
I’d say we’re a Rio, an Irwin or Evra, a Keane, a Kanchelskis, a Cantona and a RVP away from the top as those are the positions we need to strengthen/upgrade in so not too much needed 
Bringing in one or two world class players will only exacerbate the problems we are having. We need the entire squad to step up their game, not have a couple more Pogbas running around wondering what in the heck their teammates are doing half the time.
Point wasn't that we should buy anyone - was just curious to see how many agreed that these qualities in those positions are key to what's missing - and that we're not so far off being a good side again as many will have it. Opinions seems divided so far
You're forgetting a proper manager.