So would you keep Smalling?

The current Ole's best 2 CBs both screwed up on 2 cup semifinals. Hopefully that's temporary, not permanent sign of weak mentality.

I don't remember of Smalling screwed up badly on SF or Final Cup, or in CL.
 
I don´t think there is any way back for Smalling at United. He wanted to leave the moment he learnt he was behind Maguire and Lindeløf in the pecking order, and nothing has changed since then. He doesn´t want to be here, so off he goes. If we don´t sign Upamecano, I put my faith in Tuanzebe - he could turn into the "new signing" that we need.
 
Isotope said:
The current Ole's best 2 CBs both screwed up on 2 cup semifinals. hopefully that's temporary, not permanent sign of weak mentality.

I don't remember of Smalling screwed up badly on SF or Final Cup, or in CL.
Click to expand...
Umm,FA Cup final ?
 
There really isn't much upside to keeping Smalling around this season. His stock is high enough for us to get 20 mil for him. Say, we kept him around for this season - it isn't as if he improves us enough from our current position on the table. We will need to buy a new CB next year to help us level up on defence and I doubt selling him would bring us 20 mil then so what was the point of having him around ?
 
Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell said:
I've paid enough money and wasted enough time watching Smalling play. He's not United quality, never was.

He's had a decade to prove himself. How much more time do you want to give him?
Click to expand...

It’s not about how long he has had to prove himself.

It’s about being a better defender than Lindelof, Bailly, Jones, Rojo. Better to try and shift the latter 2 before Smalling.
 
We need a few defenders, quite desperately really, and I cannot understand the lack of movement in the market. I really think we lack in that department.. they all do a job, maguire a little more. But we need to step up a level. Smalling is our second best defender. Simple as. I would prefer to see him back, and some others shipped out. i find him reliable... top, top quality.. probably not, but how many of those do we have at the back? We have a team with many players still learning etc. If he wants to return, I would take him. If he wishes to return.
 
Monks_United said:
There really isn't much upside to keeping Smalling around this season. His stock is high enough for us to get 20 mil for him. Say, we kept him around for this season - it isn't as if he improves us enough from our current position on the table. We will need to buy a new CB next year to help us level up on defence and I doubt selling him would bring us 20 mil then so what was the point of having him around ?
Click to expand...

I would keep Smalling as he's a top defensive CB, but this is the gist of the matter. He's a good defender, but of all of the squad defenders available for transfer, he's the most likely to bring any funds now. We might get a decent fee for Dalot, but Jones would basically be for peanuts as would Rojo (if we could find a buyer for either). Really need to get rid of those two so that Bailly, Tuanzebe, & the youngsters get a clearer path to playing time.
 
How has Bailly suddenly become so undervalued at this club? Is it only die to his injuries or is he truly not a good defender?

I always get a few Vidic vibes from him in terms of his daring to go into risky tackles and interceptions.

Yea, he gives away a few fouls, but I like him as a threat to the attackers in the opponent side.

Does Ole not fancy him?
 
RU Devil said:
I would keep Smalling as he's a top defensive CB, but this is the gist of the matter. He's a good defender, but of all of the squad defenders available for transfer, he's the most likely to bring any funds now. We might get a decent fee for Dalot, but Jones would basically be for peanuts as would Rojo (if we could find a buyer for either). Really need to get rid of those two so that Bailly, Tuanzebe, & the youngsters get a clearer path to playing time.
Click to expand...

Pretty much the problem, he went on loan because none of the other CBs, barbMaguire or Lindelof have any value, and no one wanted to take them.

We can’t find anyone to buy Rojo, Bailly or Jones.
So Smalling will be sold because he’s the only one that anyone will pay money for.

He’s going to be sold because the others are so bad no one wants them.
 
MZX7 said:
How has Bailly suddenly become so undervalued at this club? Is it only die to his injuries or is he truly not a good defender?

I always get a few Vidic vibes from him in terms of his daring to go into risky tackles and interceptions.

Yea, he gives away a few fouls, but I like him as a threat to the attackers in the opponent side.

Does Ole not fancy him?
Click to expand...

Bailly can’t head the ball, has appalling positioning and very little tactical awareness. He’s a great player of you can ignore these factors, and the fact he’s more often injured than not, and even when fit he’s likely to be serving a suspension.

He tackles like he does because he has no concept of positioning. He’s nowhere near Utd quality.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Bailly can’t head the ball, has appalling positioning and very little tactical awareness. He’s a great player of you can ignore these factors, and the fact he’s more often injured than not, and even when fit he’s likely to be serving a suspension.

He tackles like he does because he has no concept of positioning. He’s nowhere near Utd quality.
Click to expand...
Serious question: Are any of our Central Defenders truly United Quality? And yes, I am including Captain Jailed-in-Mykonos in this list.
 
MZX7 said:
Serious question: Are any of our Central Defenders truly United Quality? And yes, I am including Captain Jailed-in-Mykonos in this list.
Click to expand...

They are I think. United quality is very vague. They might not be prime Rio and Vidic, but those only performed for 3-5 years before decline with injuries and stuff.
They would match most other defenders we have had for sure. Of course it might not be fair to compare players from different eras with current one.
I think Greenwood is United quality even if he is far from Giggs and Ronaldo standard at the moment.
 
Paul_Scholes18 said:
They are I think. United quality is very vague. They might not be prime Rio and Vidic, but those only performed for 3-5 years before decline with injuries and stuff.
They would match most other defenders we have had for sure. Of course it might not be fair to compare players from different eras with current one.
I think Greenwood is United quality even if he is far from Giggs and Ronaldo standard at the moment.
Click to expand...
I was only talking about center backs. Greenwood is class. Hope he develops well.
 
MZX7 said:
I was only talking about center backs. Greenwood is class. Hope he develops well.
Click to expand...

Yeah just hard to define United quality overall. I think we got good defenders, but maybe not the highest level.
Good enough to win big things with them if the attack and management are top quality.
Although if we can find top quality value in the market we should go for it if we have enough money.
 
Being upfront, I think Smalling is an excellent defender and has got a lot of unfair criticism because he is outright ungainly to the eyes on the ball. If Smalling is the only player we can realistically sell from Rojo/Jones and even Bailly so we can afford to get an upgrade to Lindelof for a partner for Maguire, then fine. But, if we are selling to raise funds for a forward, then to me that's a big mistake.

Yes, Ole wants to play out the back. I just don't see how putting Smalling changes that. Watching us all season, Lindelof's role was recycle the ball to midfielder or Maguire. As for being able to handle the press, looking awkward on the ball aside, nothing I saw gave me the impression that Lindelof fares that much better when we get pressed, as a team in fact we don't handle it that well overall.

The playing out the back is a red herring anway, our issue is being able to defend a lot higher up the pitch with a a Lindelof/Maguire partnership. The lack of confidence in being able to defend higher up means they sit back more and that means the midfield has to play deeper, which then makes it more difficult to connect midfield to the attacking 3rd. And when they do play higher up, the two of them poop the bed every time the other team breaks.

As for the good defensive record last season, we played with a lot better balance overall in the team and we defended better as a team especially second half of the season. Ole kept talking about how Martial is working harder and even the defenders talked about how so much of it started from the front. Even during our post-lockdown run, the one thing all the pundits said was yes they look attractive but, that backline, it does not inspire confidence. Think Smalling would at least fix that in the short term till a CB with better defensive capability but, with his ball playing ability can be found.
 
Not good enough to take us back to the top and there is nothing to suggest we would have finished the season better if he was in the squad. If we want better, we need to sell what we have one player at a time and Smalling has one foot out of the door. Let's not delay this.
 
Of our current crop of CBs he's not the one I'd be prioritising shipping out, but that said, he's probably the only one we'd get any sort of fee for, and he's probably pushing for a move.

But selling Smalling for €20m while we keep the likes of Jones & Rojo makes no sort of sense to me.

Surely he could have a role, and be convinced to stay, unless we're signing someone better than Jones/Rojo.

Currently, and arguably, he'd be our 3rd choice CB, at worst.
 
Eyepopper said:
Of our current crop of CBs he's not the one I'd be prioritising shipping out, but that said, he's probably the only one we'd get any sort of fee for, and he's probably pushing for a move.

But selling Smalling for €20m while we keep the likes of Jones & Rojo makes no sort of sense to me.

Surely he could have a role, and be convinced to stay, unless we're signing someone better than Jones/Rojo.

Currently, and arguably, he'd be our 3rd choice CB, at worst.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's the only one we can shift out for a good fee.

Additionally, I believe he wants to be a starter, which might not be on the table here.
 
Isotope said:
The current Ole's best 2 CBs both screwed up on 2 cup semifinals. Hopefully that's temporary, not permanent sign of weak mentality.

I don't remember of Smalling screwed up badly on SF or Final Cup, or in CL.
Click to expand...
He scored an own goal in FA cup semi, then got a red card in the final. United won the match with a dramatic goal, but clearly he screwed up badly twice in his best season as Mike Smalling.
 
If we don’t sign anyone we should keep him and try a lot harder to move Rojo and Jones on, even get them out on loan and at least make the saving in some wages or maybe even a loan fee. maybe they can hit some form and make us a small fee somewhere down the line but they contribute nothing here, there’s no shop window when they never play and their value is as low as it’ll ever be. If Smalling staying stops us signing someone more suitable then let him go too. Bailly id keep if he could stay fit. Ironically it’s most likely jones that’s the best player out of them all but he shouldn’t have even got his last deal given his appalling fitness record. Bad squad management at CB.
 
I would say Smalling is a significant improvement to Jones & Rojo, so having him back is better than last season. However, I don't think this would be a significant improvement in terms of quality or ball possession (may be better than Lindelof on aerial defence). Since Smalling and Inter are happy with the loan period, so it makes sense to sell him at an acceptable price, and go for a younger CB.
 
Good business getting rid of Smalling this window. 20 million is decent for a 31-year-old who seems to be more suited and happy in Italy.
He wasn't a disaster here but keeping him as a backup when he clearly wants to be a guaranteed starter would be counter-productive.

We will need to improve at CB but I think we'll be ok in waiting until next summer and try for Upamecano. There doesn't seem to be any viable solid options that United look at that are available this season.
Reinvest the Smalling money along with the other players that will inevitably leave in Sancho and it will still be a big step forward for the squad with the business we have done this window.
 
If we aren't signing anyone at CB then I am tempted to keep Smalling for backup but on thr balance for long run it's better to sell him. He isn't getting any younger and won't settle for a backup position anyways.
 
Dve said:
I don´t think there is any way back for Smalling at United. He wanted to leave the moment he learnt he was behind Maguire and Lindeløf in the pecking order, and nothing has changed since then. He doesn´t want to be here, so off he goes. If we don´t sign Upamecano, I put my faith in Tuanzebe - he could turn into the "new signing" that we need.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%
 
Smalling's done at United. We would never have loaned him out at his age if he was in Ole's plans.
 
He was the best of the rest, but is not good enough for a top team. While I fully acknowledge that I would have kept him ahead of Bailly, Rojo and Jones, he is the only one of them who actually has some positive value, so it is an understandable decision and the best for all sides involved in the transfer.
 
Number32 said:
He scored an own goal in FA cup semi, then got a red card in the final. United won the match with a dramatic goal, but clearly he screwed up badly twice in his best season as Mike Smalling.
Click to expand...

That red card on Final was ridiculous. Mark Clattenburg. But the SF own goal is a fair point, and I admit I forgot about this.

My initial question was if this mentality is permanent or just temporary. Smalling made that Cup mistake, and that's it for him.
 
Last edited:
Chabon said:
Selling good, but not quite top level players and then replacing them with expensive, yet distinctly inferior ones is the closest thing we have to an ‘identity’ in the post-Fergie years, why stop now?
Click to expand...
Very apt, and depressing.
 
This forum has weirdly overrated the pure defender in Smalling always. He was the mainstay for us at CB when we were conceding shots after shots in games with DDG saving our skin time and again. While he has some good defensive attributes, overall he will go down as an mediocre defender in the history of the game.
 
MZX7 said:
Serious question: Are any of our Central Defenders truly United Quality? And yes, I am including Captain Jailed-in-Mykonos in this list.
Click to expand...

Maguire certainly is. Lindelof is a useful player to have, but should be a squad player If we are to challenge for the league.

MattyB1986 said:
Smalling's done at United. We would never have loaned him out at his age if he was in Ole's plans.
Click to expand...

Personally I think that’s more to do with him being the only one that could be loaned out.

It would have been ridiculous to have 6 senior CBs in the squad. It was a monetary decision.

CG1010 said:
This forum has weirdly overrated the pure defender in Smalling always. He was the mainstay for us at CB when we were conceding shots after shots in games with DDG saving our skin time and again. While he has some good defensive attributes, overall he will go down as an mediocre defender in the history of the game.
Click to expand...

Smalling wasn’t and never will be a great player. But he’s not mediocre, that’s poor from you. He’s played in the PL and now Italy and been a first team player for a long time. He deserves more respect.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Maguire certainly is. Lindelof is a useful player to have, but should be a squad player If we are to challenge for the league.



Personally I think that’s more to do with him being the only one that could be loaned out.

It would have been ridiculous to have 6 senior CBs in the squad. It was a monetary decision.



Smalling wasn’t and never will be a great player. But he’s not mediocre, that’s poor from you. He’s played in the PL and now Italy and been a first team player for a long time. He deserves more respect.
Click to expand...
Nope
 
@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg I very much respect Smalling, in fact his rise from non-leagues to the top level of football is inspiring. But the fact is he is a mediocre level player whose level is 5-8th position clubs in major leagues. It is still better than 99% other players, but from our club's perspective he is not good enough and has never been. That's the truth.
 
At worst Smalling is our third best centre back and in my opinion actually second and probably the most ideal partner for Maguire, what Smalling does well actually covers Maguire’s main flaws.

Problem is though that Smalling is like a rabbit in the headlights with the ball at his feet and Ole wants to play out from the back and also of all our other centre backs Smalling is the only one we can get decent money for.

No one wants Jones or Rojo which is why both men should be made available on free transfers just so they’re off the wage bill whilst Bailly can’t stay fit which means no clubs want to take a gamble on him, Smalling whilst better than the others is sellable and we’re trying to improve the starting 11 and squad during a global pandemic.

It’s a similar thing with Lingard and Mata as between the two Lingard is actually sellable although he’d be the better of the two to stay in my opinion, we could maybe get £15-£20 million for Lingard whereas we’d be lucky to get a fee for Mata but then whoever stayed would be back up anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.