I would rather see them both play together and Martinez stepping into midfield with his passing cutting through the lines, Amrabat or Casemiro can then cover for him and the rotation of these players start to make us a really difficult team to play against.
Sofyan Amrabat | 2023/24 Performances
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Can you please stop? let us have our saviour moment
Like you I watch Fiorentina too. This statement is false and has been peddled around a lot.
He has been a stand out midfielder last season in the Serie A. Unless you don’t understand the role of a defensive midfielder, you can’t be labelling him underwhelming.
Pinochino you nose is getting bigger
what an absolute load of rubbish.
Was one of the best midfielders in serie A last season and his stats support that.
He doesn't speak French and Arabic, AFAIK he speaks Amazigh, Dutch and English but probably Italian as well.
The source was the Muppetiers and there's plenty of examples of them being wrong from when they were on reddit spreading supposed ITK news.
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Okay, I was more than willing to believe our recruitment messed up given our history with midfielders, so I checked on Mandragora, but... does he just do a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet or something?
Passing (Mandragora left, Amrabat right):
Possession:
Defending:
Worse at short, medium and long passing (check out that 60% success rate on long!), seems to have a higher proportion of his touches in the attacking third rather than defensive, isn't much of a carrier, defensively doesn't seem a whole lot different to Amrabat either... he got 2 goals and 4 assists in Serie A last year, is that why he's a better midfielder? Doesn't seem a stand-out, at any rate.
I usually dislike these kind of stat-offs, but it seems a little bit of an egregious comparison in this case.
McT actually has a good passing range he just doesn’t get on the ball.
He hides from the ball.
I just don’t think he understands how to play the role of a CM who needs to get on the ball and dictate play, he’s never been coached in that way and is much more of a basic box to box. Not his fault but it is what it is and I think he’s too old to change his positional instincts. You see him ask for the ball a lot he’s just in rubbish positions.
Haven’t watched a single Napoli game but you’ll want to be in high percentile if you don’t make many errors. So in the 3rd percentile he is statistically one of the bottom 3%. 99th percentile are those that don’t make any errors at all.
I've seen that man misplace a 5 yard pass to his midfield partner more often than I can count, so in a way you are right - or perhaps a more accurate word is a 'varied' passing range
Yes, you're right. I don't know why I got that one mixed up. However, if you look up his errors, it's still only 0.11 errors per 90 minutes, and the one that ranks the highest for most errors would be 0.24 per 90 min. I'm not really sure how they track this, as surely there are midfielders that make more than 0.24 mistakes per game.
Agreed. And I agree with all the caveats stated here that Crystal Palace weren't exactly prime Barcelona opposition, but CP is a decent barometer of midtable PL opposition who on any day can snatch an improbable win over a top club but obviously on this day weren't at the races. With the gradual but inevitable decline of Eriksen we need the shot in the arm that Amrabat is. You don't want to get hopes up too high, but by taking just that edge of pressure of Casemiro the wily Brazilian can express himself better as he did yesterday.
I think we wait till the weekend to use CP asa a barometer in this way. They were off it and they were not at full strength.
No idea either tbf. Found this on the athletic:
“
Currently, there are subjective measures for errors leading to a shot or a goal that are collected, and of all outfield players this season, Jan Bednarek has earned the wooden spoon, helping Southampton’s opponents score three goals due to his mistakes. These are usually errors which help the opposition score out of a situation where it never looked possible — a weak back-pass to the goalkeeper that is intercepted, leading to a one-on-one, for example.
These mistakes are few and far between, and either happen at random, or not enough of them happen in a season, such that they are a reliable means of comparing all defenders through this lens. An ideal measurement instead are the subtle moves (or lack thereof) that lead to an opponent being able to score.”
https://theathletic.com/1763286/2020/04/23/bad-stats-but-good-player-analysis/?amp=1
I think the same as well.
I said he can play the same 30 yard passes not that he stands on the half way line playing balls from deep constantly like Amrabat. They played in the same team plenty of times. Mandragora has the same range of passes ie. you will see him switch the ball from the left to the right like Amrabat, but unlike Amrabat he wants to get forward and shoot and create chances. Thats where he has more to his game and why he has over 3 times as many key passes as Amrabat per 90 minsOkay, I was more than willing to believe our recruitment messed up given our history with midfielders, so I checked on Mandragora, but... does he just do a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet or something?
Passing (Mandragora left, Amrabat right):
Possession:
Defending:
Worse at short, medium and long passing (check out that 60% success rate on long!), seems to have a higher proportion of his touches in the attacking third rather than defensive, isn't much of a carrier, defensively doesn't seem a whole lot different to Amrabat either... he got 2 goals and 4 assists in Serie A last year, is that why he's a better midfielder? Doesn't seem a stand-out, at any rate.
I usually dislike these kind of stat-offs, but it seems a little bit of an egregious comparison in this case.
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Ridiculous. Also they wouldnt have sent Mandragora out on loan because they actually need him and they're doing better with Arthur who failed at Juventus and Liverpool playing where Amrabat got his games.
Fiorentina's Serie A stats this season with 5 played for them and 6 for some others
Are you actually trying to have a conversation where the topic of the debate is that Mandragora is a good midfielder? He's an injury prone, mediocre midfielder who no particular strengths, except a hard shot. He is a terrible passer, and even comparing him to Amrabat in that aspect is frankly laughable. There is a reason Fiorentina don't use him as a focal point of possession, and would rather use Arthur for that.Ridiculous. Also they wouldnt have sent Mandragora out on loan because they actually need him and they're doing better with Arthur who failed at Juventus and Liverpool playing where Amrabat got his games.
Fiorentina's Serie A stats this season with 5 played for them and 6 for some others
What is the point of those statistics? They tell me absolutely nothing. Ah, 7 yellow cards, aerials won and 83.3% pass completion? Most useless statistics to prove a point. They've also conceded 9 goals in 5 games and are 6th on the table behind Lecce.
Not anymore, its best to block trolls. Off you go
He wants to get forward, shoot and create chances. Yet, these are his statistics from last season:
2 goals, 4 assists and 34 chances created. In Serie A. Add his lack of passing, technicality, dribbling, drive with the ball, press resistance and physicality along with that, and you'll find one of the most mediocre midfielders in all of Serie A.
Just stop.
Amrabat was wanted by 4 top clubs. Mandragora was not wanted by anyone.
Why do we always fight for everything?
Don’t know what Ekeke beef is with amrabat. Anyone with a set of eyes without even looking at stats would know he is perfect for us and is an elite midfielder. Or maybe I’m not getting Ekeke sarcasm?
If only McT could get the ball more
I did find a player who had a similar passing profile, unfortunately it was Fred.
I find it really wierd that he do not understand the concept of make yourself available for passing the ball instead of standing behind opposition players?
It’s more he can’t react to his passing lanes getting cut off, he’s not blind he’s just not very good because he’s never really had to do it.
He’s kind of the opposite of when VDB came here, he was running into all these little spaces and random angles and wanting the ball he just never got it because it would have been a pointless pass with how we played or people just didn’t see it.
Because there are tons of contrarian doomposters here who feel the need to argue in every thread that the manager is shite and every player bought is the worst player in the world, with obviously better players available for cheaper.
Don't bother arguing with Ekeke. Regularly has the worst takes on the forum.
So i guess its time for him to move,he does not fit in with the team's playstyle.
And he looks like he don't care anymore to be honest either.
Excellent post. Killed off that arguement.Okay, I was more than willing to believe our recruitment messed up given our history with midfielders, so I checked on Mandragora, but... does he just do a lot of stuff that doesn't show up on the stat sheet or something?
Passing (Mandragora left, Amrabat right):
Possession:
Defending:
Worse at short, medium and long passing (check out that 60% success rate on long!), seems to have a higher proportion of his touches in the attacking third rather than defensive, isn't much of a carrier, defensively doesn't seem a whole lot different to Amrabat either... he got 2 goals and 4 assists in Serie A last year, is that why he's a better midfielder? Doesn't seem a stand-out, at any rate.
I usually dislike these kind of stat-offs, but it seems a little bit of an egregious comparison in this case.
I’d agree after that Bayern performance he genuinely seemed to be throwing in the towel.
Excatly, never seen that before. Something is off.
He has always given 100% before.
To feign / flaunt being knowledgable I guess.
We’ve taken a player on loan. Let’s see how it goes - but this whole deep dive into Fiorentina FC and their litter of incredible midfielders we could have gotten - is tedious and irrelevant to say the least. Especially in a player performance thread.
I love how you change arguments and statistics to prove Mandragora is a better midfielder and fail every time.
We always get carried away after the first performance of new players. "Elite Midfielder"? He's just a slightly above-average midfielder.
We'll see how he does in big games.
We'll see how he does in big games.
I must admit I've been taken aback by the massive praise he's been getting. He looked competent and worked hard. These days that elevates you to Carrick and Scholes standards it seems.
I don't see anything special there, but I'm happy he's here and he's far better than McTominay and a better fit than Eriksen in many games.
That here says it all and that's why he was signed.