Sofyan Amrabat | signs for United on loan

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Rampant Red Rodriguez

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So what should we do in terms of signings
Bring back RR to control him from the top. That's £140m in 2 shit signings now that are going through the pissed and not working for us. And it didn't take captain hindsight to realise this because all the Cafetards saw this month's ago with the MM negotiations.

Piss poor recruitment, management and leadership all from the top. feck the Glazers off already.
 

Croftona7

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With how Casemiro is looking, Ambrabrat might be something transformative if he manages to displace him.
Before the season started I thought if we get Amrabat we'd have a solid option for when Casemiro was suspended, injured or tired, 2 games in and I think Amrabat could replace Casemiro.
 

crossy1686

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Aside from Antony, who was awful? Onana is still new and was so far OK even though it "felt" safer with DeGea, he is the way forward. Malacia AFAIK didn't play for EtH but was scouted in same league. Martinez has been immense. Not sure why Antony is malfunctioning in final third or if he was always like this.


I'm all for that but doubt EtH would do it. It would be great with Højlund/Rashford. Behind a diamond. Our wing play is literally like fielding 9 or 10 instead of 11.
All the players we’ve signed from the Dutch league have question marks. Martinez had a brilliant season last season but if he’s poor this season then has he been a good signing? There’s still a lot to prove, and if Erik had his was we’d have Gakpo firing blanks for us up top this season also.
 

NoPace

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Yeah Gravenberch carries it and should be looking to do some kind of loan deal but this club has no business brains to propose it unfortunately
Ten Hag used him in a pretty attacking way in midfield (left #8) so I’m not sure he’d bring a ton more than being a less energetic Mount who dribbles better.

He’s got more upside obviously, but Amrabat-Shaw-Lisandro-Varane-Onana feels like it might be enough non chaotic types who can pass and defend to allow Casemiro and Bruno to have more structure around their chaotic styles.
 

Mercurial

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All the players we’ve signed from the Dutch league have question marks. Martinez had a brilliant season last season but if he’s poor this season then has he been a good signing? There’s still a lot to prove, and if Erik had his was we’d have Gakpo firing blanks for us up top this season also.
We seriously need to ditch the Manager function for DOF model, but problem is we are lacking identity and its hard to just go a random route from a position of weakness and a bad DOF might be even worse. Are we holding, pressing , countering? We did the LVG borefest we did the Mou big lad defensive counter, we did the Ole free play english stem thing, we are doing whatever EtH is trying. Problem is replacing players at a loss 1-2 every season makes it hard to catch up to any sort of change in direction and form a squad, all while brilliant players age or get out of form. That much is clear. Let's hope Onana and Martinez redeem EtH from Antony signing. Antony I just don't know, feel if we're insisting on using such a moot player it will cost us dearly, and might as well field 4 in mid and not be smashed like last two games. Functioning midfield > useless wing play.
 

NoPace

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Before the sra


Before the season started I thought if we get Amrabat we'd have a solid option for when Casemiro was suspended, injured or tired, 2 games in and I think Amrabat could replace Casemiro.
At the moment I’d say bench Mount and let Casemiro mix it up as an 8.
 

Lash

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We seriously need to ditch the Manager function for DOF model, but problem is we are lacking identity and its hard to just go a random route from a position of weakness and a bad DOF might be even worse. Are we holding, pressing , countering? We did the LVG borefest we did the Mou big lad defensive counter, we did the Ole free play english stem thing, we are doing whatever EtH is trying. Problem is replacing players at a loss 1-2 every season makes it hard to catch up to any sort of change in direction and form a squad, all while brilliant players age or get out of form. That much is clear. Let's hope Onana and Martinez redeem EtH from Antony signing. Antony I just don't know, feel if we're insisting on using such a moot player it will cost us dearly, and might as well field 4 in mid and not be smashed like last two games. Functioning midfield > useless wing play.
You always have to start with a manager DOF though, because we didnt have any principles of play for a DOF to look at and focus on. It will also help us with our academy and how players focus on their development.

The real issue is this take 3-4 years to implement and people expect it to just work straight away with a new manager. That only really works in places like Brighton who's whole set up is geared to effectively recruit with a certain style of play.
 

Mercurial

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You always have to start with a manager DOF though, because we didnt have any principles of play for a DOF to look at and focus on. It will also help us with our academy and how players focus on their development.

The real issue is this take 3-4 years to implement and people expect it to just work straight away with a new manager. That only really works in places like Brighton who's whole set up is geared to effectively recruit with a certain style of play.
The trial with Ragnick didn't end well either.
 

Lash

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The trial with Rangnick didn't end well either.
Because we were hesitant to commit to his style too. I do think it was the right decision

In theory, we've committed to a style now, so over the next few seasons it should be easier for to recruit and bring players through and also agree on the profile of players we need :D .
 

dinostar77

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We need a double pivot in midfield to give casemiro some help. As a single pivot he has too much to do alone.

A amrabat / casemiro duo would be pretty solid. Let Mount fight out for the 7/11/10 positions. Drop the likes of Bruno and Rashford if they have a crap game. Create a benchmark for performance for a starting XI place.
 

The Mitcher

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Bring back RR to control him from the top. That's £140m in 2 shit signings now that are going through the pissed and not working for us. And it didn't take captain hindsight to realise this because all the Cafetards saw this month's ago with the MM negotiations.

Piss poor recruitment, management and leadership all from the top. feck the Glazers off already.
Ragnick was never going to control anything, nor should we let that fraud do so. Seriously stop it with this rewriting of history. He was originally going to be a consultant on a part time basis, our DOF is meant to be Murtough.
 

OrcaFat

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We need a double pivot in midfield to give casemiro some help. As a single pivot he has too much to do alone.

A amrabat / casemiro duo would be pretty solid. Let Mount fight out for the 7/11/10 positions. Drop the likes of Bruno and Rashford if they have a crap game. Create a benchmark for performance for a starting XI place.
Sometimes we might revert to a system which more closely resembles 4231. But what I’m slowly catching onto is that these formations are outdated. The structure of the top teams is fluid but fundamentally changes depending on phase of play and all that convoluted nonsense.

It will depend who we are playing against as to what player profiles would work best.

In some games we’d really want an Amrabat type who goes very deep to get the ball, links with keeper and defenders, turns, plays through the press from deep; if that’s with Case then Bruno or Mount will be left out (or moved wide) and there’s the 4231 but a lot of the time that will become 3331 with one of the full backs or CBs stepping into midfield.

It’s bloody complicated if you ask me. No wonder the players are struggling with it. But it’s the only way to create or combat overloads (I gather).

Competition for places, clever, adaptable players, very heavily drilled, is what we need. It takes a little while to bring it all together.
 

Mercurial

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Because we were hesitant to commit to his style too. I do think it was the right decision

In theory, we've committed to a style now, so over the next few seasons it should be easier for to recruit and bring players through and also agree on the profile of players we need :D .
Glad that chapter ended. :wenger:
 

IamBurnsey

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If united don't sign him then fair enough but they 100 percent need another cdm, whoever that will be is anyone's guess.
 

Abraxas

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Bring back RR to control him from the top. That's £140m in 2 shit signings now that are going through the pissed and not working for us. And it didn't take captain hindsight to realise this because all the Cafetards saw this month's ago with the MM negotiations.

Piss poor recruitment, management and leadership all from the top. feck the Glazers off already.
Are you joking?

Ralf Rangnick has no credibility or sympathy from anybody within Man United due the awful job he did, constantly using diversions to distract away from his primary job and throwing others under the bus to make excuses.

Whatever we think of the hierarchy at United, and I don't rate them very highly, you need a director of football that can actually work with people that are in situ. It's kind of key. They have to be the go between. Whatever his routine at Leipzig etc was it worked but at a big club he didn't have the gravitas or communication skills and far too many bridges were burnt in the process of him being caretaker manager.

Pretty much anybody with a credible record as a DOF at a major top flight club would be better than Ralf primarily because they wouldn't have any of the same baggage.
 

Mercurial

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Are you joking?

Ralf Rangnick has no credibility or sympathy from anybody within Man United due the awful job he did, constantly using diversions to distract away from his primary job and throwing others under the bus to make excuses.

Whatever we think of the hierarchy at United, and I don't rate them very highly, you need a director of football that can actually work with people that are in situ. It's kind of key. They have to be the go between. Whatever his routine at Leipzig etc was it worked but at a big club he didn't have the gravitas or communication skills and far too many bridges were burnt in the process of him being caretaker manager.

Pretty much anybody with a credible record as a DOF at a major top flight club would be better than Ralf primarily because they wouldn't have any of the same baggage.
Thanks for this post.
 

Real Name

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All the players we’ve signed from the Dutch league have question marks. Martinez had a brilliant season last season but if he’s poor this season then has he been a good signing? There’s still a lot to prove, and if Erik had his was we’d have Gakpo firing blanks for us up top this season also.
What a strange logic, if Martinez will be poor. 2 games into the season. What if he'll be great this season too?
 

Paul778

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Are you joking?

Ralf Rangnick has no credibility or sympathy from anybody within Man United due the awful job he did, constantly using diversions to distract away from his primary job and throwing others under the bus to make excuses.

Whatever we think of the hierarchy at United, and I don't rate them very highly, you need a director of football that can actually work with people that are in situ. It's kind of key. They have to be the go between. Whatever his routine at Leipzig etc was it worked but at a big club he didn't have the gravitas or communication skills and far too many bridges were burnt in the process of him being caretaker manager.

Pretty much anybody with a credible record as a DOF at a major top flight club would be better than Ralf primarily because they wouldn't have any of the same baggage.
Ralf told the management the team needed open heart surgery and needed at least 10 new players.

The management didn't want to hear that and hired a manager they hoped would be able to improve the current playing squad.

How has that worked out exactly?

I'm tired of all this Ragnick bashing. He inherited a team at it's most toxic with Lingard Ronaldo Henderson Maguire as well as lots lots more stinking up the team. As a supply teacher with literally no financial backing by the board absolutely noone would have succeeded in that situation.

I like ETH but as anyone can see through preseason and first two games - we are not out of the woods yet people.
 

Real Name

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Ragnick did absolutely nothing except being a rent a quote and was all about protecting himself and his image when he left. As a manager he was disastrous and apparently, according to his PR, he recommended about 15 players. Cant believe people fell for his open heart surgery stuff. Should have been a politician.
 

OrcaFat

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Ralf told the management the team needed open heart surgery and needed at least 10 new players.

The management didn't want to hear that and hired a manager they hoped would be able to improve the current playing squad.

How has that worked out exactly?

I'm tired of all this Rangnick bashing. He inherited a team at it's most toxic with Lingard Ronaldo Henderson Maguire as well as lots lots more stinking up the team. As a supply teacher with literally no financial backing by the board absolutely noone would have succeeded in that situation.

I like ETH but as anyone can see through preseason and first two games - we are not out of the woods yet people.
Many said, even at the time, that his statement about needing 10 players was not that shocking. He just did a terrible job with what he had. He looked like he regretted taking the job from about week 3.

He might have been more suited to a DoF role but, allegedly, EtH didn’t want him around even as a consultant.

Bashing RR is entirely appropriate as he gave up on the job he was hired to do - the consulting was an add-on he requested to make the whole thing worth his while - temporary manager to achieve the best possible outcome that season. He was dire.

On the other hand, imo, it was a little window on how the people at the club may be perceived by an outsider coming in with nothing to prove and nothing to lose. He wasn’t impressed. I think it was a difficult working environment.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Do people think this guy can actually be a high quality midfielder or are we adding a squad player for a reasonable fee? For example Tonali seemed to start very well for Newcastle - would we say they are comparable ability wise?
 

crossy1686

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Do people think this guy can actually be a high quality midfielder or are we adding a squad player for a reasonable fee? For example Tonali seemed to start very well for Newcastle - would we say they are comparable ability wise?
He’s available for a relatively low fee yet no one’s interested. Should say everything really.
 

amolbhatia50k

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He’s available for a relatively low fee yet no one’s interested. Should say everything really.
Yeah he looks tidy from the clips but more squad player / rotation material. Like a budget option to fill a gap. I’ll take what we can get but it feels like we are too slow to grab the actual top level talents.
 

NoPace

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Do people think this guy can actually be a high quality midfielder or are we adding a squad player for a reasonable fee? For example Tonali seemed to start very well for Newcastle - would we say they are comparable ability wise?
I'm not a Serie A watcher but I don't think he's held in near the same esteem, no. Tonali made the team of the season and I think Amrabat is seen as more of let's say a Hojberg/Ward-Prowse sorta level player by his fans and a Lemar/Norgaard (the man he beat out at Fiorentina I think) by his detractors.

He might have improved though, probably wouldn't be the first passing DM to start to produce real quality stuff around 26 and he did seem to be the boss of Fiorentina and Morocco in good cup runs this year.

Feels like a 20M player but DMs and Strikers have hugely inflated markets right now so he would cost more like 30. Feels like an upgrade on McTominay as Casemiro's backup and an alternative to a more attacking partner for Casemiro since Mount and Eriksen are lightweight, but I think if we sign him it should be as a 2nd #6 and it's still probably Mainoo or a new signing to be our #8.
 

padzilla

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Rangnick made some points, unfortunately he was far from what we needed at the time in terms of coaching.
 

Abraxas

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Ralf told the management the team needed open heart surgery and needed at least 10 new players.

The management didn't want to hear that and hired a manager they hoped would be able to improve the current playing squad.

How has that worked out exactly?

I'm tired of all this Rangnick bashing. He inherited a team at it's most toxic with Lingard Ronaldo Henderson Maguire as well as lots lots more stinking up the team. As a supply teacher with literally no financial backing by the board absolutely noone would have succeeded in that situation.

I like ETH but as anyone can see through preseason and first two games - we are not out of the woods yet people.
How has what worked out? ETH is getting close to his 10 new signings so I'm not sure why you're trying to present a characterisation that the club didn't know transfers were needed or wouldn't invest. It just hasn't all been done at once. You don't get all the shiny toys at once and have to show a bit of patience to totally revamp a squad. That's nothing to do with not hearing what Ralf Rangnick had to say, that is the reality of financing the purchases so I'm not really sure what your expectations were or whether they were reasonable.

The truth is Ralf's "open heart surgery" comment was just a soundbyte with no real content, but it appealed to the disillusioned fanbase expertly. It sounded nice and fluffy but it was totally meaningless, any time Man United or any top club is doing that badly it is reasonable to infer that large squad turnover is needed. It was a distraction piece that offered nothing to the club but plenty to those writing headlines and yet for some reason some fans treat it as if he was delivering a holy sermon.

How do you know "nobody would have succeeded." All we know is Ralf Rangnick didn't succeed. He didn't need to produce any miracles to finish top 4, he just needed to do slightly better than the abysmal job he did. Let's consider why things went to pot. Maybe it's because rather than have the credibility to get the players you say were stinking up the place on board he decided to use press conferences as his personal opportunity to produce monologues on how useless they were and what was needed under a future consultancy he would never reach. Maybe it's because he tried stuff like 4-2-2-2 which I scarcely dream of on football manager. You blame the players for his failure and undoubtedly they take some responsibility but I must have missed the part where top clubs hire caretakers because everything is hunky dory. That is the nature of the beast, get on with it, produce an outcome.
 

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Yeah he looks tidy from the clips but more squad player / rotation material. Like a budget option to fill a gap. I’ll take what we can get but it feels like we are too slow to grab the actual top level talents.
From the videos I could find of his play(not including the WC) I don't think he can be anything more than a squad player. He will really need to up his game in order to match the reality in the PL.

As pointed above, the fact that he is available for a relative low fee but nobody has signed him yet is telling.
 

UnitedSofa

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Rangnick did absolutely nothing except being a rent a quote and was all about protecting himself and his image when he left. As a manager he was disastrous and apparently, according to his PR, he recommended about 15 players. Cant believe people fell for his open heart surgery stuff. Should have been a politician.
Gotta love that PR! :lol:
 

Rampant Red Rodriguez

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Accusation: Are you joking?.
Response: The question here actually is do you even know what you are talking about?. RR has a proven record of building clubs from the bottom up. He even developed his own philosophy of an approach to playing football.
What is Murtough's pedigree in comparison?. Being Woodward's right hand man?

Ralf Rangnick has no credibility or sympathy from anybody within Man United due the awful job he did.

R) He was given an old, unfit "unprofessional" team with way too much player power mid-season. No training time/pre season and no new players to work with. just expected to work magic. This is the proverbial sinking ship - no new captain would have saved that team. This wasn't even his main thing to do at the club, his job was to find the rot which he did with expert precision.

Accusation) Constantly using diversions to distract away from his primary job and throwing others under the bus to make excuses.

Response) "Ralph Rangnick advised Murtough and Arnold many of United’s players are “not fit for purpose” and physically cannot cope with high-energy opponents who run further, faster and harder".

You disagree with this point of his?. You thought the players were good enough :lol:. No wonder this club has gone to shit, just look at the state of the fanboi comments :lol:. RR said 10 new players are needed and here we are with 10 new signings over the year ETH has been here. Instead of hungry young players as advised, we have got retirement aged used and tired players who are starting to struggle to get into the game. This is piss poor recruitment at top penny prices and it's a problem caused between Murtough and ETH himself for

A) Whatever we think of the hierarchy at United, and I don't rate them very highly, you need a director of football that can actually work with people that are in situ.

R) If the players are shit and recruitment is shit, that's a problem above the manager.

• It's kind of key. They have to be the go between. Whatever his routine at Leipzig etc was it worked.
Because they listened to RR and didn't ridicule him thinking they know better than him. And so are now realising the rewards they wanted.

"At a big club he didn't have the gravitas"???.
He's not a bloody planet with his own orbit and gravitational force ffs!! :lol: And he was never one for big name signings, just as SAF wasn't even in his day. He wanted young hungry players who can be managed to get new ideas into their head and aim to win things with them.

or "communication skills???."
Utter clueless nonsense. RR probably speaks better English than you mate because clearly you don't know what you are talking about. Everything he put in his dossier is bang on correct. It was too true for the Glazers liking and he knew exactly what the crack was with the squad.

and far too many bridges were burnt - because the people above him were idiots

"in the process of him being caretaker manager." The role was more than that, was an advisory role to see why the team isn't going anywhere inspite of money being spent on the playing team.



Pretty much anybody with a credible record as a DOF at a major top flight club would be better than Ralf primarily because they wouldn't have any of the same baggage.

No point in having a DoF anywhere if they aren't going to listen to him. RR and ETH could have been a dream team working together with the Murtough/Arnold/Fletcher team behind them. But no. Ten Hag's ego got the better of him and we are going to be suffering from shit players and mediocrity until he gets dismissed.

Murtough is just another yes man. There's no dissenting opinions nor transfer target alternatives to acquire. It's a pathetic appeasement of the manager getting all his old players some who were not needed and other players who are over the hill.

He was a Woodward right hand man of overseeing the old misfits staying at the club on extortionate contracts and it's exactly what is being built again now at this club. If Woodward was the finance man running the club then John Murtough was his pragmatic football support as ex head of England elite performance once upon a time before moving to Man Utd in a cushy #2 number.


RR was his own man at all cost, he wasn't here to make friends with the crock of shit he was left with. His advisory signings would have been cheaper and better than the shit recruited by this bald fake-Pep who wasted another £140m on Anthony and Mason Mount. Eriksen's and Casemiro on the wrong side of 30 and on long-term contracts at the club,

". **And that’s why he’s told Arnold the club needs a clear-out and an influx of hungry young players.**. Now what part of this statement is untrue?.

"He believes Harry Maguire has carried the can for a series of inept defensive displays by the team but feels United’s £80million investment is so substantial the club can’t simply write off the England centre-back."

Had enough of editing a reply to that nonsense post. I'm going for breakfast.[/b]
 

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Ah. United fans calling the manager bald fake Pep.
Bless them.
And lauding a fraud who comes up with 20 more players he apparently recommended.
 

NZT-One

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Ah. United fans calling the manager bald fake Pep.
Bless them.
And lauding a fraud who comes up with 20 more players he apparently recommended.
Don't want to get involved in this argument but one question: is it now debatable, that RR recommended certain players?

I mean, why would that be debatable? Recruitment was probably more his thing than actual managing so why wouldn't he recommend players? As if Alvarez or even Enzo came out of the blue... Even fecking Stephen Howson made video of Enzo before his Benfica move and long before the worldcup. Same goes for Alvarez. So those players surely would have been on peoples radar back then.

Plus: regardless of who was supposed to take the manager seat, doing the square root of feck all during the transfer window that winter was the opposite of smart. Surely, wouldn't have went all out for players but especially the DM position, even back then, was as blank as it could possibly be. Adding in a player there would have been the most logical thing to do.
 
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Real Name

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Don't want to get involved in this pointless argument but one question: is it now debatable, that he recommended certain players? I mean, why would that be debatable? Recruitment was probably more his thing thanactual managing so why wouldn't he recommend players. And lets not act, as if Alvarez or even Enzo came of the blue. Even fecky Howson made video of Enzo before his Benfica move and long before the worldcup. Same goes for Alvarez.
And regardless of who was supposed to take the manager seat, doing the square root of feck all during the transfer window that winter was the opposite of smart. Surely, wouldn't have went all out for players but especially the DM position, even back then, was as blank as it could possibly be. Adding in a player there would have been the most logical thing to do.
It's not debatable transfers should have been made. But he did absolutely nothing as a manager, used his time for pressers in which he said the most obvious things and nowadays it seems every time he speaks he adds 5 more players he recommended, all he's doing is protecting himself and trying to sugarcoat his time at United as a manager.
As for open heart injury (just another soundbyte) at least ETH is getting rid of players constantly or he's trying to do that. Yet you have posters calling him a fake Pep and asking for RR to come back..
 

Noc-Z

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Seriously, this post has to be a piss take. Do you realise we have potentially 70 games next season.

Do you think Casemeiro is going to play all of these?

38 league
15 champions league
7 Fa Cup
8 league cup.

numbers above mightn’t be 100% exact but there or there abouts
You've called my post a piss take, but then went on to say "Do you think Casemiro is going to play all of these.".

Obviously, no I don't. So what you're saying is Amrabat will get minutes when Casemero isn't playing. Which is exactly what I suggested when I said "back-up" for Casemiro. So it seems we are making the same point even though you called my post a piss take.

I also suggested a change in formation could be a way to incorporate Amrabat. So where is the piss take?
 

Jeffthered

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Some of these (tweet quote) posts are really silly, rather immature really. And don't really tell anybody, anything at all.
 

RussellWilson

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To be fair, as much as I hate Luckhurst, I tend to agree if we were gonna sign Amarabat we would have done so by now.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Why would you want him when u have Casemiro? The Caf if so wierd. Clearly after our match u need a ball carrying box to box player. You guys chase names instead oh actual individuals.
 
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