The problem comes from Woodward's recruiting strategy that made our superstars untouchable from a marketing POV. It's what bred a culture of complacency and player power that's plagued the club since the LvG era.
Solskjaer's legacy and his future
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Ole was trying to build a side around AWB, Maguire, McTominay, Rashford, Pogba and Martial. All of whom are either massive problems, or just not good enough, or both.
And yeh the players are the problem. That's what Mourinho knew but lacked the people skills to sort out without exploding. The primary reason Ole was chosen is because Woodward wanted someone to pander to the players and massage their egos. Which he did. He and Woodward deliberately enabled an era of player power to take full hold of the club.
Performances count more than league finishes for me. We may have got results but on the whole the football was pretty bad. It was never going to be sustainable.
In the 17 games with Ole this year, we had 3 convincing wins. In all the other games we were awful. So the "few games" were the majority.
But no one's saying he shouldn't have been sacked this year. The point I was making is for his previous 2 seasons though.
And you need to stop being so disingenuous. 4-2 to Leicester; 5-0 to Liverpool (at home); 2-0 to City; 4-1 to Watford - all with the space of about a month is hardly a few embarrassing losses; it’s an avalanche of shit, gutless results.
The difference between 1.7 and 1.5 is just one goal every five games; a trivial difference more easily explained as noise than as a measure of improvement.
I think the actual difference is larger, though. At least in the PL.
Again, no one's said he didn't deserve to be sacked. Off the back of those results he did. But that 2 month period shouldn't be extrapolated to his entire tenure here
And preceded by shockingly poor defeats to Villa, West Ham and Young Boys.
Because it is nothing you or anyone knows. It is not something Solskjaer or club need to tell. There are lot of available managers out there. Who are bigger then Solskjaer and they don't have clubs.We can argue to death about whether 2nd and 3rd finishes were an achievement, but I have never heard any explanation from Ole defenders as to why he is now only being considered for jobs in Scottish and Scandinavian leagues. If he did any sort of good or even decent job at United, he should not have any problems finding a job much better than that and the likes of Aberdeen etc should consider him way above their league. But it seems that nobody outside a part of our fan base really thinks that he is anywhere close to PL level manager even. What do they see that the entire world does not?
Fact is that Solskjaer came to a toxic enviroment and lifted us up because players didn't wanted to perform more for Mourinho.
Fact is that we didn't win trophies with Solskjaer.
Fact is that we came 3rd and 2nd in his two full seasons.
Fact is that we came to countless semifinales and a final.
Fact is that he left when toxic enviroment once again popped up.
I don't see how this is seen as poor. Ofcourse, everyone of us want to win titles. But to say that his perfomences were worst of the worst is just wrong and is built on something else then reality. He did a good job and we were close to some cups. We showed progres in the league until this year. He needed to get sacked for this year but it is more down to players then Solskjaer. Something Rangnick have noticed.
From Sky, United's win ratio since Fergie. Sorry if posted already - I did go back a bit but couldn't see it.
Moyes - 52.9%
Van Gaal - 52.4%
Mourinho - 58.3%
OGS - 54.2%
Rangnick - 41.7%
Moyes - 52.9%
Van Gaal - 52.4%
Mourinho - 58.3%
OGS - 54.2%
Rangnick - 41.7%
Come on, it's not like Woody planned any of this. Ole was hired on background of his great run as caretaker not to kiss the players arses.
Ole's big failure imo was favoring certain players, which was fecking stupid and something he was rightfully critized for, but that alone can't explain the massive attitude problems we seem to be having as it's something a lot of managers do
I agree that he bet on the wrong horse re Maguire, but at the time you cant fault him for having faith in Rashford and Martial as they both looked to be the future.
Yeah but looking back there were other dire runs - the finish the 2019 season was absolutely diabolical (almost as bad as now,) and then there was the first half of 2019-20, when we were getting embarrassed by the likes of Newcastle and those idiotic Longstaff brothers. Bruno saved his ass that season, and I'd argue that the circumstances of Liverpool's unreal injury crisis and the Chelsea and Tottenham melting down to various degrees gave us a break and a lucky 2nd place finish (and that wasn't enough for a proven winner like Jose, so don't see why it should be enough for a second-rate manager like Ole.)
Strenge take! It’s not like we didn’t have injurie crisis or meltdowns.. It’s the way it goes.. Bruno saved his ass? It’s called signing players to build a team. Do you think Pereira could do the job? I don’t think Ole did either..
I have to say, Ole is being complacent that he allowed some of our most hard-working people we knew to be jogging, being lazy and doesn't even track back. No wonder why we didn't work hard as it was before. None of this would happen if he's not complacent and should demand for high intensity to match like City and Liverpool.
Do not forget that he said he want us to dominate the game, controlling the game better and be on the front aggressively. We gave him 3 seasons to achieve nothing rather than qualifying for a UCL twice time in a row. We're back to where Jose got sacked and the football still didn't improve.
Do not forget that he said he want us to dominate the game, controlling the game better and be on the front aggressively. We gave him 3 seasons to achieve nothing rather than qualifying for a UCL twice time in a row. We're back to where Jose got sacked and the football still didn't improve.
The real issue is Ole sacrificed real long term development for short-term results. It's a mark of a bad manager that do not know how to improve the team as a whole over the course of his tenure.
Getting to minor semi-finals and finals ( failing to win minor trophy like the Europa league) is not a mark of a good manager. Not when that manager had access to one of the most expensive squad assembled in world football.
A single good player bailing the team that was performing poorly is always a bad thing. Good managers don't rely on a singular star to save the day. That is what bad managers and middling club managers do.
It's what clubs like Aston Villa or Crystal Palace do to ensure they don't get relegated. They have one or two stars to bail the rest of the team out. But at least those managers have the excuse that they have a lower quality squad than a club like Man United.
Patterns of play is important, and being able to implement good pattern of play is a mark of a good manager.
We had nothing near the crisis that Liverpool had and you know it. Ole was a game away from getting the sack and caught lightning in a Bruno-shaped bottle. Fraud of a manager (great player mind you.)
A lot of Ole fans are utterly incapable of looking at what was going on at other clubs in context. With a fanbase that myopic, it's no wonder United failed. A stupid fanbase deserve failure.
Agreed.
Yes we did! Several times. If anything, Ole showed the squad couldn’t be trusted. He did a fine job working on that up until this season. Whether it’s on him or the players is up to us fans. But to label some of us as Ole fans is not fair! Rangnick has repeatedly said there are problems, problems Ole 100% knew was there, but didn’t have time to address. It will be the same for Ten Haag, and people will be all over him for not polishing a turd fast enough.
He had more time than any other manager at any other top club has got, or will ever get, without winning a trophy.
Still. How much work did he get done? It’s not like he solved any problems. He got rid a few, but there are plenty left! Seems like the biggest axe on him is Harry. But that one is on Harry! And who fecking else would you choose as captain? Please don’t say DDG
Trophy? We are not even close to one..
How much time to give Ole ? 10 years to address the issues ? 20 ?
He had plenty of time and many of the problems were "purchased" by him. When he left, 6 out of 11 starters were bought by him and he had time to dispose of the other players but choose to keep them and use them.
If ETH is a better manager than Ole, and signs till now point he is, then he must solve the problems fast.
As a manager, he was in charge of the squad. If it could not be trusted after three years, tons of money spent and tons of decisions made - it's on him.
Problems that Ole caused himself by backing the wrong players, hoarding players and tricking some into staying by promising game time that he wasn't willing to give them.
It really doesn’t matter, does it!? The issues are still the same. He was dead right about culture, and it is still showing. Rangnick has seen it, and Teen Haag must keep it going.
Choice is a relative thing, and time is the perspective. A lot of work still! And happily a few of our players can step up to past glory.
Do we still have people defending him? The more this goes on the worse his managerial legacy gets.
Not going to respond to this.. You didn’t, and still don’t understand the challenge at Man Utd..
Because United has one of the least clever fanbase for a top club. With fans being so used to easy days under SAF, they are utterly incapable of learning what makes a good manager from a bad one.
A lot of Ole haters are incapable of seeing what is going on at this club nevermind other clubs context. One literally said earlier on in the thread the Ole undid all the great work Mourinho and Van Gaal did (as if we were amazing with these managers)
Doesn't require a response, what I said is inarguable.
You talk about understanding the challenge but dont seem to recognise how big a part Ole played in making it.
Anyone in the world of football (and not in the world of twitter) knows how terrible Ole was.
There is a reason no serious club is touching him with a ten foot pole. If he is lucky enough to somehow land a premier league job, he won't last long. Failure of a manager but what's worse is the cult like following he has. Ole was our lowest point post SAF. Our entrance into the "meme club" era.
There is a reason no serious club is touching him with a ten foot pole. If he is lucky enough to somehow land a premier league job, he won't last long. Failure of a manager but what's worse is the cult like following he has. Ole was our lowest point post SAF. Our entrance into the "meme club" era.
Dead right about culture? He started "cultural reboot" and kept pointing to that being successful whenever he was asked about not being able to win any trophies in press conference. He in his own words said, the squad mentality and culture is completely different to one he started with, how they are "good" people who know what it's like to play for the shirt and fight for it.
It's amazing the plain lies people continue to spread. Him bleating about cultural change is what kept him buying support and time of the fans. I'm sure you and others were using that as a positive back when he was manager but are now using it to justify why he failed. Bravo!
We wasted three years going nowhere with him and we're now at our lowest point. He's not solely to blame, no one is, but there's nothing of any real substance worth praising him for. Nostalgia and sentimentality clouded any sense and reason when it came to discussing his credentials. Think it's about time we all agree it was a massive mistake and we all move on to a new era under a far more qualified manager.
Cultural reboot in which players like Rashford, Pogba and Martial were treated like kings and players like Mata, Matic, Jones who he gave a 5 year contract and Jesse Lingz are still here. How delusional can a United fan be to think this guy did anything of the sort and are still being fooled
That's not even mentioning the clowns he brought into the club and that goes for players and staff.
It’s weird how some posters still talk about Ole as if he was some powerless figure who had to deal with an unmanageable mess (like Ralf has had to). While the problems at the club run very deep, the fact remains that Ole brought in a large number of new players (most of whom are now deadwood) while overseeing the renewal of the contracts of various deadbeats. In making these observations, it’s not a case of picking on Ole but rather holding him to the same standard as his predecessors.
I never liked or rated him as a manger but also his personality/interviews got on my nerves
Beyond me why he didn't push for Lingard and Pogba to be sold last summer. Might have even saved him his job.
Minor semifinals and finals? Minor? I also wonder what you mean by short term development and long term when you say that Solskjaer sacrificed. We did show progress until this year.
Most expensive squad is not same as good squad. We got players that don't perform. Can't perform, don't want or don't know how to perform. Either way it can't only be blaming game towards managers. Lot of them aren't even worth half of what they cost but because we are ManUtd we overpay. Always. So I don't see a point to mention expensive squad.
When you combine two incompetent people it was always going to end up in disaster. I still cannot believe that he said should trophies are for egos. Woodward and Ole combined was always going to end up like this. Thank God both are gone.