With another 2 years and £700 million to spend I have no doubts that Jose can build a team capable of challenging for the top four.
Source - Manchester United believe football under Mourinho 'much better'
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
So he is building a foundation, hmmm where have I heard that before
Just because it didn't work out for one manager doesn't mean it will for another.So he is building a foundation, hmmm where have I heard that before
Because Van Gaal didn't work, it's suddenly a myth that it takes time for a manager to make a squad a team and coach them to win under his methods?
No.
But just because SAF came good after a tough start doesn't mean that giving a manager time will automatically lead to success.
It's pretty incredible how instantly people demand success.
And there's always a cherry picked comparison to back it up. Under Moyes it was "look how well Martinez is doing with Everton". Under LVG it was Rodgers/Jose at first, then Ranieri. Currently with Jose it was Guardiola, now Conte.
Quite telling none of them have been able to build any sort of foundation yet.
So basically you're saying that it's not always right to give a manager more time as there are plenty of examples of performance deteriorating as time goes on.
It should be two years at a minimum before an assessment is made, unless of course the manager loses the board, dressing room, or fan base before that in which case, as with Moyes, a decision could come before the two years is up. We did the right with of waiting two years with LvG.
Isn't that really just saying that a manager should get 2 years unless they're doing badly in which case they shouldn't?
Yes indeed, except it's a bit more nuanced than you described it. There are clear red lines within that two year period that if breached could result in a review before the two years.
But I'm not sure those clear red lines exist anywhere except in your head as clearly there are clubs all around the world who regularly sack managers after less than 2 years.
Did you actually read my previous posts ? I created clear stipulations of why managers can get sacked before 2 years, and a vast majority of those who do get sacked are for one of the reasons I listed.
Good
But your clear stipulations are all just really your own coded way of saying 'poor results'.
Not necessarily. They can be a combination of mediocre results combined with any of the three conditions I listed.
We definitely look better, but than again 2 slugs racing each other is more enjoyable and exciting to watch than LVG's UTD.
That's not what he's saying. He's named a number of examples of managers that made a good initial impact but weren't able to sustain it. Which is yet another reason to reserve judgement for at least one whole season before deciding whether a manager has been a success or failure.
Mourinho aside, Everton would be wise to give Koeman some more time. Even though his initial impact hasn't been anything like as impressive as it was at Southampton. Which goes to show that it's easier to hit the ground running at some clubs (or after some managers) than it is at (after) others.
Fair enough. Despite my reservations on his performance so far I agree that it's fairly ridiculous to be discussing the manager being sacked at this point.
However, I think it's equally ridiculous that I see people suggesting that Mourinho should get definitely be given 3 years plus.
Yeah, I agree with you.
As someone who supported the club through Fergie's early years I can relate to wanting to give the right man as long as he needs but you only know if you've got the right man with hindsight and the league is so competitive the club could end up royally fecked if we stick with the wrong man for that long.
Which Im glad about as the petulant fan meltdown from a minority, some of whom are asking for him to be sacked, is as ludicrous as it is unhelpful. Rightly or wrongly, the club made the decision to hire Mourinho. He should be backed to the hilt for a minimum period and then we make an assessment.
At the end of last season, I'd hoped we had universal fan agreement that any positive SAF legacy effects had been destroyed and we were starting from ground zero. There is no point crying over spilled milk, sadly, we are where we are.
We are currently abit like Man City were when they signed Robinho: we are not rubbish but we have no coherent footballing ideology, we are inconsistent and at our bottom level play tumescent functional football that struggles to see out games into victories. These are facts that no amount of hsyteria can instantly change.
Last season, we debated and polled if style was more important than results. Obviously we want both but that is unrealistic given our starting point and the current level of hyper-competition. Many stated that 'we must be entertained' and sided for style over results. In my mind, Mourinho's team already produces many more chances and much more excitement.
But we have 2 glaring issues: an inability to convert enough realistic chances into goals and an inability to close games out into victories. In the later case, its ironic that we are falling victim to the late goals that every great SAF team was famous for. Solving these issues will take time because they require some new better players as well as psychologically toughening up the entire squad.
I can handle it when media or opposing fans have a go, thats all part of the banter of being a football fan, but I do despair abit by the need for instant gratification by some of our fan base. Being rich and well loved does not give us the divine right to win titles, no matter how much any fan wants to mock the perfectly reasonable desire of managers to evolve a 'philosophy' within a 'process'.
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you're fence sitting. So what do you propose?
For me, Im convinced Mourinho is the right guy, so I'll blindly support him for at least 2-3 years before I think about him being sacked.
Very true. It makes sense to support the manager after a year of poor results if most of the players are still behind him. If, however, the players lose their faith in the manager, persisting with him can do more harm than good. Especially if the manager has a track record of performing well only in the first 2 years of his stints. Mou's fate depends on his relationship with the players. United will give him enough time if they want to play for him.
I think two seasons is long enough to have a very good idea whether he's the right man or not. If the rest of this season is an absolute disaster (i.e. results get continually worse) I'd even consider getting rid in the summer.
Football managerial turnover has got to the point where fewer and fewer managers have a track record of sustaining success for longer than this. Another reason we can't go with the "three years, no matter what" approach.
I don't think we should blindly give him time. There are clear stipulations related to "are we playing better football" ? (yes). Does he have the support of the United hierarchy, players, and supporters (yes). If its yes to all of the above and after 2-3 years we still have no CL spot, league or FA Cup trophy to show, then we can reassess just as we did with LvG.
I'd give Mourinho 2 years. But the worrying thing is...if he fails, where do we go from there?
It's not worrying, there are plenty of managers out there but United fans in particular are snobs.
There will emerge other good managers. Florentino Perez made a mistake with Benitez but quickly rectified it with Zidane and that was a brilliant move. Guardiola was nobody (as a manager) before getting the job at Barca. Football is bloody unpredictable.
There are plenty of options - big Sam Allardici has been free for months.
He's been here for five months FFS. Nobody is advocating keeping him for 6 years before he does anything.
I'm not pro José at all I am yet to be convinced that he is the man for the job but it's crazy to talk of replacing him so soon!
Awesome leak. This goes deep
Our football is better but that is not hard considering how bad LVG was
Mourinho has not been good enough and time is running out, if we got out of Europa, and if we get 12 points behind top 4, our season will be over in January/February, so sacking him would be ok with me
Mourinho has not been good enough and time is running out, if we got out of Europa, and if we get 12 points behind top 4, our season will be over in January/February, so sacking him would be ok with me
Really? Most fans were happy with the club appointing Moyes.
Not on here they weren't.
Plenty suggesting he should get at least 3 years.
Well that's just lies.
Supporters on the whole had to accept it whether they liked him or not. There was a pretty notable majority which took the stance of 'underwhelming as hell but sure, let's see what happens.'
You'd hope that this isn't realistic but in fact it is considering the teams that would drop from the CL. Getting top 4 would be a miracle in itself at this rate.
If we are showing signs of progress and look reasonably good, like we have so far this season, then he should get 2 or 3 full seasons. It cannot be unconditional, we have to be showing some quality.
Rightly so as well, taking over directly from Fergie required a true winner at the peak of his powers, if Jose fails we'll be heading towards 5 years of nothing, the guy coming in then has a much lower ceiling of expectation.