Agreed, I was merely hypothesising who the 5 were given how good Pires was for a spell. I don't really think Van Persie and Fabregas are better players than Gerrard was either.
Steven Gerrard
- Thread starter antihenry
- Start date
Agreed, I was merely hypothesising who the 5 were given how good Pires was for a spell. I don't really think Van Persie and Fabregas are better players than Gerrard was either.
Yeah I'm not saying that either of those players are better but I think a case could be made for
RVP
Fabregas,
Bergkamp,
Henry,
Vieira.
RVP
Fabregas,
Bergkamp,
Henry,
Vieira.
Yep, Gary Neville put him in his team of the year last season as well
In his autobiography, Gary said that during the time that Gerrard handed in a transfer request and was doing all he could to move to Chelsea, Neville was trying to convince him to join United.
Open case, shut case.
Why do you think RVP has been a better player than Gerrard, despite spending vast parts of his career injured and unable to prove it?
Also, what puts Fabregas above Gerrard, at the age of 26?
I wasn't saying how big a cnut a van Persie is, merely that he is a better player. Fabregas showed Gerrard what it is to play CM.
And I was asking why you think that. Not that I'm disagreeing with you.
My definition of worldclass is being in a squad of 22 to play Mars. RvP has made it last 3 years - Gerrard has never made it as AM or CM, even in 2009 his annus mirabilis.
What about if we play Jupiter? Does he make it or is it the same team?
Gerrard was a brilliant player but I would class him as a bit below the top tier.
Peter's list is spot on. Okay Rvp has had his career marred by injuries, but when fit he is the superior footballer up there with he very best strikers in the business and over the last few the years he's been the best. Same with fabregas. Same with the others. Gerrard was great but he was didnt have the technical ability in possession and intelligence that the very best players tend to have. He was very very explosive and had the ability to decide games but there was a certain class missing from his game always.
Peter's list is spot on. Okay Rvp has had his career marred by injuries, but when fit he is the superior footballer up there with he very best strikers in the business and over the last few the years he's been the best. Same with fabregas. Same with the others. Gerrard was great but he was didnt have the technical ability in possession and intelligence that the very best players tend to have. He was very very explosive and had the ability to decide games but there was a certain class missing from his game always.
I was excluding Arsenal players and I agree with your list.
I was referring to opposition players at the Emirates, primarily. Though I was there in Barcelona when Messi stuck 4 past us which I rate as the best performance of an opposition player against us in recent memory.
Must be quite a few United players on that list of yours then.
Alistair probably rates Park Ji-Sung as the quintessential PL winger of our time.
One of my favourite 'eras' of games against one team was the four or five years where first Ronaldo and then Nani repeatedly tore Arsenal's fullbacks to pieces, with Rooney and Park as partners in demolition throughout.
I think that there's quite a bit of under rating of "Stevie Me" going on in here. In fact, of that list, I'd say only Henry was "better". It's a tough call as all of those players on that list are different, more technical footballers when you compare them to Gerrard. Gerrard's best position was never as a CM anyway.
I don't know, maybe I'm over rating him or maybe because "technical" players are in the in-thing atm, a ton of you lot are under rating him? But he was a world class footballer at his peak, no argument. He's not as decorated (medals wise) as other footballers but that's more because of the dross he's played with. Big match temperament, match winning performances were all there in abundance. But I'd have him in the top 10 EPL footballers of the last decade.
I don't know, maybe I'm over rating him or maybe because "technical" players are in the in-thing atm, a ton of you lot are under rating him? But he was a world class footballer at his peak, no argument. He's not as decorated (medals wise) as other footballers but that's more because of the dross he's played with. Big match temperament, match winning performances were all there in abundance. But I'd have him in the top 10 EPL footballers of the last decade.
So according to you, Gerrard would never have made this squad of 22 at any point in his career?
2009 was not his 'annus mirabilis' by the way.
Fantastic footballer, at the peak of his powers had that Keano-esque ability to simply win a match on his own, to change the course of the match through sheer willpower - while at the same time being a goal threat with a wonderful range of passing.
Always overrated by most as a pure central midfielder, always underrated on here as a player - fact is he's one of the top 10 players of the Premier League era beyond doubt.
Always overrated by most as a pure central midfielder, always underrated on here as a player - fact is he's one of the top 10 players of the Premier League era beyond doubt.
I don't know how you can say beyond doubt.
Giggs,
Keane,
Ronaldo,
Scholes,
schmeichel,
Henry,
Lampard,
Bergkamp,
RVP,
Shearer,
Bergkamp,
Vidic,
Adams
There's so many world class players who have played in the premier league that it's hard nowadays to say he's a "top 10" premier league player. I don't think anyone on that list stands out as head and shoulders above any others. Gerrard is a fantastic player along with other brilliant players in the league. Comparing across positions and time periods is hard.
Good player was Gerrard. Happy he's not as good anymore.
Should have added "IMO" then.
In my head at the peak of his powers he was a better player than Schmeichel, Lampard, Bergkamp, Adams, Vidic, RvP and Giggs, on par with Keano, Vieira and Shearer, behind Scholes, Ronaldo and Henry.
His issue is his peak years weren't that many, but at his best he's one of the very best I've seen in the Premier League.
In my head at the peak of his powers he was a better player than Schmeichel, Lampard, Bergkamp, Adams, Vidic, RvP and Giggs, on par with Keano, Vieira and Shearer, behind Scholes, Ronaldo and Henry.
His issue is his peak years weren't that many, but at his best he's one of the very best I've seen in the Premier League.
He was box office, to be fair...without actually being a proper centre midfielder. I think he lacked a short passing game and was perhaps lacking footballing intelligence.
The Dane's the best keeper I've seen, there's no chance you'd have Gerrard in your first eleven before Schmeichel.
This is about excactly my stance on him.
Might have jumped the gun a bit, Schmeichel was absolutely mint. But I think in terms of peak years, I say Gerrard's best season were even better than Pete. Schmeichel could win a match due to brilliance, he would even do it regularly - Gerrard could change not only the outcome of a match, but the balance and flow of it. He could turn around a match which Liverpool had no right to control, and then win it for them.
As for first eleven, Schmeichel would obviously go in as the GK. Gerrard would be in my first XI though some way or another.
Schmeichel won us games thanks to his brilliance plenty of times. As for first eleven, he'd(SG) struggle to get on the bench, never mind get in front of Scholes, Keane, Vieira et al.
I think he was a world class player in his prime around the 2005-2009 years. A phenomenal competitor and an absolute leader on the field. Lampard may have scored more and generally been more consistent but Gerrard always had something extra for me, a special player.
I'd have a midfield three of Keane, Scholes and Gerrard thank you very much. Just imagine.
Sorry Pat. And Pete.
You've made me want to watch the 95/96 season review for that save against Newcastle now Spoony.
I dont get how you're comparing him to GKs and CBs but gerrard as a CM wasnt as good as Keane or Vieira. Better than Lampard though. Definitely one of the best in the league though, fantastic player.
If it weren't for Schmeichel they'd have battered us that evening. As for Vieira he was a better player, and more importantly a better CM by a distance. But as I said Gerrard was box office, a player you'd pay to watch.
As a CM he wasn't anywhere near either of them.
Overall, as a player, he was arguably as good although I'd probably have both of them over him at their respective peaks.
Gerrard was always more of an AM than a CM.
No, just forget the CM years and as an AM there were always better options. 2008/9 was the year he scored 16 goals playing behind Torres and in front of Mascherano and Alonso wasn't it?
I think you're slightly harsh on him Pete.
If he had played as a roaming midfielder in say a midfield three all of his career he would be one of the very best around.
If he had played as a roaming midfielder in say a midfield three all of his career he would be one of the very best around.
A lot back then back then felt Alonso was better. Gerrard was at his best around 2005, in my opinion.
You mean the CM years where he drove us to a CL win in '05 and came 3rd in the Ballon D'or/won the UEFA club player of the year award? Or in '01 when he won the PFA fans' player of the year and won a treble? It seems you're trying to downgrade him as a player because he wasn't consistently played in one position.
Whilst that 08/09 team was probably the best he's played in, Gerrard didn't have a specific peak in his career. He was amazingly consistent for the best part of a decade.
To suggest he was never even in the best 22 players in the world is downright stupid.
At the peak of his powers, Gerrard would break into the all prem XI.
Schmikes
Neville
Vidic
Stam
Cole
Ronaldo
Scholes
Keane (some say Vieira, but I'd give the edge to Keane)
Giggs
Gerrard
Henry
Yes, I know this is United-heavy but I can't see my way around that. And yes, I know, I've left off Shearer, Beckham, Rio and Ruud. Shame on me.
Strange to see Gerrard be so underrated here as an attacking force, even if he admittedly plays for a club in decline in many respects. We know about his ability to score from distance and his range of long passing at the height of his powers. His short passing wasn't the equal of Scholes. Fine, we're not debating Gerrard v Scholes. Sensational player, he.
Schmikes
Neville
Vidic
Stam
Cole
Ronaldo
Scholes
Keane (some say Vieira, but I'd give the edge to Keane)
Giggs
Gerrard
Henry
Yes, I know this is United-heavy but I can't see my way around that. And yes, I know, I've left off Shearer, Beckham, Rio and Ruud. Shame on me.
Strange to see Gerrard be so underrated here as an attacking force, even if he admittedly plays for a club in decline in many respects. We know about his ability to score from distance and his range of long passing at the height of his powers. His short passing wasn't the equal of Scholes. Fine, we're not debating Gerrard v Scholes. Sensational player, he.
Technical players are the in thing? Nah, it's just that the very best tend to be technically very gifted. All the greats tend to have that in common.
Argh.
It's not about him never being in the top 22 players in the world anyway. It's about him being in the top 5 or so midfield players in the world. Ahead of Keane, Vieira, Scholes, Lampard, Pirlo, Makelele, Xavi, Ballack and god knows how many others.
The way you've set it up, both Bergkamp and Shearer would get into the 11 ahead of Gerrard.
I'd rather Gerrard than Bergkamp personally.
I suppose Gerrard is that sort of player who is bound to be overrated by his own fans - and underrated by “neutrals” (United fans aren’t known for their objectivity when it comes to Liverpool). I don’t care much for lists and fantasy line-ups, but I will say this: In his pomp Gerrard had something you see very rarely in a midfielder: He was incredibly dangerous. You sat there with a feeling that he could explode at any time, bombing forward, setting himself up for a shot (and he could shoot, the bastard), forcing the opposition to stay on their toes constantly (which of course freed up his team mates).
I don’t disagree that both Keane and Viera were better CMs (that’s obivous). Fabregas too, certainly, regarded simply in terms of his qualities as a central midfielder. But it’s a fact that none of these players (not even Keano) were as hard to contain as Gerrard. He was, in fact, impossible to contain when he was at his best. A different sort of midfielder, more of an AM as others have said (though not in the modern sense), but not too easy to categorize, really.
His main weakness was always that he seemed to crave too much freedom to be able to operate: He had to be the main man, run the whole show on his own terms. He lacked a great deal of wisdom and restraint, I’d say. It was less of a problem the higher up the pitch he played, but the fact is that he was at his most dangerous when he suddenly burst into action from a deeper position (and in the deeper role he was, ultimately, too tactically naive compared to the truly great CMs).
I don’t disagree that both Keane and Viera were better CMs (that’s obivous). Fabregas too, certainly, regarded simply in terms of his qualities as a central midfielder. But it’s a fact that none of these players (not even Keano) were as hard to contain as Gerrard. He was, in fact, impossible to contain when he was at his best. A different sort of midfielder, more of an AM as others have said (though not in the modern sense), but not too easy to categorize, really.
His main weakness was always that he seemed to crave too much freedom to be able to operate: He had to be the main man, run the whole show on his own terms. He lacked a great deal of wisdom and restraint, I’d say. It was less of a problem the higher up the pitch he played, but the fact is that he was at his most dangerous when he suddenly burst into action from a deeper position (and in the deeper role he was, ultimately, too tactically naive compared to the truly great CMs).
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/71427_10201330029189146_454727747_n.jpg
I've been fortunate enough to have seen some great players wearing the red shirt of Liverpool over the past 45 years or so. For me, Steven Gerrard is up there with Dalglish as the best I've ever seen.
& anyone who thinks Vieira is a better player, needs to have a word with themselves. If both players, in their prime, were up for sale, the Frenchman would have been knocked over in the rush as managers would have killed their own grandmother to have had Gerrard in their team. That's not to say Vieira wasn't a great player in his own right. But he was never the game-changer or match-winner that Steve was/is.
I've been fortunate enough to have seen some great players wearing the red shirt of Liverpool over the past 45 years or so. For me, Steven Gerrard is up there with Dalglish as the best I've ever seen.
& anyone who thinks Vieira is a better player, needs to have a word with themselves. If both players, in their prime, were up for sale, the Frenchman would have been knocked over in the rush as managers would have killed their own grandmother to have had Gerrard in their team. That's not to say Vieira wasn't a great player in his own right. But he was never the game-changer or match-winner that Steve was/is.
Nah Amol, there's no point nit picking my post to single out "technical players" are the in thing, you know what I meant. Gerrard was way more about power, pace, strength as oppose to the "subtle & softer" technical bits, it doesn't mean he was technically great. See his long range shooting etc.
My opinion is that Gerrard is a bit under rated in this thread. Fabregas/RvP/Vieira etc all better then him? It's a tough call & not as clear cut as some are making it sound, let alone that non of them even played in the same position.