I mean sorry but wtf? Quickness of Pires!? Vidal is no Usain Bolt but his mobility and energy is one of the reasons why he is so special, he is faster then fecking Pires thats for sure! Didnt mean to post anything and will leave Pat lead the discussion from our side but i couldnt resist on this one....first Shearer is few tiers ahead of Larsson and whole tier above Villa and now Pires turned into a speed demon...
Surveillance Draft - QF - Pat_Mustard/Sjor Bepo vs VivaJanuzaj/EAP
- Thread starter green_smiley
- Start date
TBH, it's your biggest draw IMO. There's a lot of battles with fine margins and then Gazza rampaging around all on his own.
He honestly seems like the likeliest matchwinner to me here. Both sets of strikers are well capable of hurting the respective CB pairings and the winger vs full back duels should be fairly nip and tuck too, although Figo will see most of the ball. There's no particularly plausible plan for stopping Gascoigne though.
Never questioned or even mentioned his workrate. Vidal will not be tracking Pires out wide, so the only question is will he get back in time to defend against our counter. Imo, Pires is definitely faster than Vidal.
I rate Abidal but Figo will get the better of him. He's the best winger in the draft and can do damage against Abidal. As others mentioned I see Cambiasso heavily involved in the midfield battle to provide the cover you mentioned.
That post was made under the assumption Cambiasso will cover wide...which he'll not. Moot point. Gazza is mack in between Cambiasso and Effenberg.
Do you rate EAP/Viva defence as better individually or having in mind who they are up against?
Vidal figo redondo is fantastic and Gazza was potentially one of the best in his position and unplayable. Underrated in drafts
Just reading this, shearer two tiers above larsson?
I expressed myself poorly, what i wanted to say he is quick(for a midfielder) over the first few yards(thats why he is so good at pressing) and has decent speed on long distance. I wouldnt bet against him in a race with Pires whos natural game is to go inside so there would be plenty of confrontations with Vidal, specially at defending counters where Vidal is a massive asset for us.
@DavidG viva said it on the first page.
Just one IMO.
Gazza is in between Cambiasso and Effenberg. Being a DM he'll naturally support when Figo gets in the box...and yes I do accept Abidal will not take out Figo we've not claimed anything like that. But when they press centrally or Figo move in centrally, we'll have that covered.
The word easily here is insulting viva. They are in the same tier and the difference is marginal.
I can see Pat/Sjor having most of the ball and Vidal would push forward which IMO will engage both Cambiasso and Effenberg to cover him and Gascoigne. Pires IMO should be the one covering defensively in that 4-4-2.
So Cambiasso and Effenberg are dealing with Gazza. Plus they are dealing with Figo when he moves centrally. Well, sounds like a nice plan, it only leaves Redondo and Vidal unattended.
To be fair I can't say that I rate Pires or Chiellini that highly, a personal preference if you wish, but it's mostly the discussion that sealed my decision. Shearer/Larsson comparison, "can't see where the goals come", Pires helping out and Villa being a passenger etc.
Somehow Abidal is perfectly placed to deal with Figo in a counter-attacking system, where he 1. minimizes the gaps in the defence 2. at the same time denies him time on the ball. I'm confused - is he playing proactive role and presses Figo or is he staying at the back, closing the gaps (which allows Figo to cross/pass the ball from the deep in which he excells)? Pires won't be helping him much here, imo.
@Edgar Allan Pillow @VivaJanuzaj
Why do you have only one new player (Chiellini)?
You should have picked Shevchenko (free agent now) IMO
Why do you have only one new player (Chiellini)?
You should have picked Shevchenko (free agent now) IMO
Oh, come on. Shearer is definitely better. 3rd in Balon d'Or!
Yeah, we gave serious consdieration to Sheava. After Raul-Sheva discussions last match, we were unsure on Suarez-Sheva would turn out to be. Anyway, we had to choose backup for our forwards and wingers with our 2nd pick. We chose Boban as he can cover our wingers and midfielders both and gambled on Forward for later rounds, if we get though.
There is no man marking here and only one ball in the game. If Figo has it, Cambiasso will drop back to cut passing routes to Gazza. If Gazza has the ball he and Effenberg will be there to tackle and regain possession. It's never an either/or scenario. I was just describing 2 different scenarios.
Abidal is a fullback, so he'll be on Figo when he gets the ball. The can play as CB is just an added facet to this game. We are playing a counter attacking setup (ahd with Pires ahead), so there will not be spaces behind Abidal for Figo to exploit.
I can understand your preference on Chiellini and Pires, but if you look at the game overall, both biggest mismatches (Shearer vs Boli and Lahm/Overmars vs Cole) are both in our favour. Yeah, he'll score...but we'll score more.
Shearer best premier league season wouldn't even qualify him to beat larssons European golden shoe best, and that was with the Scottish league handicapped (rightfully so) at 1.5 points per goal to shearer a 2.0 ( larsson won it with 52.5 points in 2000/2001)
You saw the impact he made at Barcelona and old Trafford. He was in a uefa team of the tournament too. Oh and he's the uefa cups all time highest scorer as things stand.
Celtic were a bit stronger back then and could have conceivably Performed well in the premier league. to see him live so many times, you'd understand just how good he was and why so many of his teammates rated him so highly. Two levels below shearer is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard in any of these drafts.
Fair enough. It was my opinion that Pires has enough pace to beat retreating Vidal on the counter.
Agree that's a hyperbole, but I still rate Shearer over Larsson.
Though that comparison really is not the dynamic here. It's Shearer vs Boli and Larsson against my defence. And that's in our favour imo.
Larsson was excellent and a bit underrated in historical sense since he played in Scotland, but having seen both I'll always take Shearer over him and IMO he's a level above.
Shearer was something else. In his pump before the injuries he was a complete striker that can score out of nowhere. Always threatening and rapid as feck.
I doubt anyone would better the all time scoring record in Prem and 94-98 he hit like 120 goals in 4 season.
Not to underrate Larsson scoring rate but I remember Hartson in Prem only capable of hitting past 10 goals in a season once in like 10 years in his 20's then at 35 hitting 25 in the Scottish league for Celtic during Larsson best years.
IMO Shearer is underrated a bit due to playing for Newcastle and not having the opportunity to play in CL during his peak. In this draft he's easily top 5 striker and I'd say pretty much final ready.
Lloris is a bit underwhelming in this tight game. As we've seen that a superb Gk is as important as having a superb defender.
Shearer - Suarez is definitely better for a 4-4-2 than Suarez and Sheva. And it's debatable who is the better player out of Sheva and Suarez, even though I know who I'd pick every time (more to do with bias that the actual difference in quality though)
I still don't get it. You are playing a counter attacking set-up and there is no space behind Abidal? But that means that he isn't on Figo when Figo gets the ball (around the half line, I would imagine). That means that Figo gets the ball, goes forward, reaching full speed, with an option to make an early cross, and only then Abidal meets him.
Or Abidal goes further forward but there is a free space behind him - and while Chiellini is a good tactical fit, I don't rate him, especially against the technical players (there is no question about his outstanding physical qualities) such as Figo or Gazza who can occupy the free space Abidal left behind
And I don't think that Overmars - Cole is a mismatch. Agree on Shearer - Boli, of course, but even with the obvious gap in quality, stylistically Boli is a good fit for him, which will negate that advantage a bit.
Point being Abidal does not need to venture too far out with Pires and Suarez ahead of him. He'll do just enough with Figo remaining his priority (no man-marking). I consider Lahm/Overmars flank to be more productive in this regard.
Pires won't be too effective picking Figo up, and I'd take Suarez dropping that deep to help win the ball back all day long as he's in a much less effective position to contribute to your counters.
Injury update - 30 min
Effenberg is injured for Viva/EAP's team, and replaced by Senna
No injury for Pat/Sjor's team
No injury for Pat/Sjor's team
Suarez finding second balls off of Shearer like a smarter, more skillful Bellamy seems a direct route too. His anticipation is incredible. Also when Suarez goes wide and the FBs are on the wingers, I could see him megging Boli or Ferrara and causing havoc.
I am surprised people think Abidal would shut down Figo. I love Abidal, but prime Figo was maybe the best player in the world., and he has Larsson, Villa, Gascoigne and Vidal as targets for a cross or through ball, and all but Gascoigne had brilliant movement.
I think this is a high-scoring match, just can't decide for who.
I like the Boban substitution, and Senna isn't a bad fit here either. Not enough to change my vote though 
Thats a very defensive midfield pair which will leave plenty of space and time for our midfielders to help out around Suarez, Overmars and Boban.
Good post and I don't disagree with much really. I would say that Boli was an uber-aggressive aerial monster so he'll be effective at contesting the inital balls with Shearer. Sheraer/Suarez is an excellent, complementary patnership up front though, not denying that at all. As for Gascoigne, he was rather good at arriving late to find space in the penalty area off the ball, but even moreso at just bulldozing his way in there from midfield:
Don't you think Lahm/Overmars and Shearer vs Boli are more direct advantages than Figo?I like the Boban substitution, and Senna isn't a bad fit here either. Not enough to change my vote though
Agreed that the Boban sub might help them gain more of a foothold in midfield. Senna is very good in terms of ball recovery so that's not a big downgrade from Effenberg, but Effenberg's superb range of passing (which Viva/Egar seemed to underestimate themselves) is a big loss for a team playing on the counter. Effenberg finding one of the wide men or attackers with a long range pass was a concern, with Senna not so much.I like the Boban substitution, and Senna isn't a bad fit here either. Not enough to change my vote though
Lahm and Overmars aren't even playing on the same wing any more FFS
Lahm/Overmars (who aren't a pair anymore) are facing Cole - probably the best defensive left back in the pool (edit - yeah, quite obviously not). Redondo isn't Davids but (like Lahm himself) his physical limitations are well compensated by his understanding of the game.
Like I said earlier, Shearer has a clear edge over Boli and Suarez will probably score after those two clash in the air, but stylistically he is a great fit, which makes the gap smaller than it is on paper.
Figo is the best player on the pitch, and he has enough freedom to do what he likes. While Abidal isn't a perfect fit for a counter-attacking system, and his ability to tuck in won't be a big advantage for him here
Last edited:
Boli seems to be getting quite a raw deal here again, so its worth pointing out that he kept a clean sheet in two CL finals, versus the likes of Savicevic and Pancev in 1991 vs Red Star Belgrade, and Van Basten's Milan in 1993. He also found time to score the winner in 1993, rising above Frank Rijkaard:
He's one of the better fits in the pool to deal with a powerhouse like Shearer, and he's been somewhat dismissed two matches in a row without anyone actually finding anything that blots his copy book.
He's one of the better fits in the pool to deal with a powerhouse like Shearer, and he's been somewhat dismissed two matches in a row without anyone actually finding anything that blots his copy book.
That's what I can't get passed. With having the extra man it would allow Gazza the possibility of running at them all night.
You can't actually believe Cole is a better defensive left back than Maldini.
Oh, sh... Forgot about him, obviously.
For those interested in Gazza magic here you go, even though this isnt peak Gazza its still fecking magic!
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/la-liga-serie-a-bundesliga-draft.415228/page-46#post-18937997
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/la-liga-serie-a-bundesliga-draft.415228/page-46#post-18937997