'Tactical' fouls
- Thread starter matherto
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It's pretty evident City and Spurs use this aggressively. And they're not punished properly. I would say they use as much violence as they can get away with. Liverpool definitely targeted Rashford when we played them and injured his ankle. I don't believe it was non-intentional.
Then there are the cynical fouls to prevent counters that aren't properly punished either. City are experts here, Kante at Chelsea, Torreira at Arsenal, Spurs do this as they are just cynical and aggressive all over the pitch and Liverpool do this too.
So either this gets highlighted and punished or we need to start playing like cnuts as well. Which would amount to trying to injure Salah in the first few minutes, a la Ramos, try to smash up de Bruyne, etc etc. And always, always, stop counters happening by any means necessary.
Then there are the cynical fouls to prevent counters that aren't properly punished either. City are experts here, Kante at Chelsea, Torreira at Arsenal, Spurs do this as they are just cynical and aggressive all over the pitch and Liverpool do this too.
So either this gets highlighted and punished or we need to start playing like cnuts as well. Which would amount to trying to injure Salah in the first few minutes, a la Ramos, try to smash up de Bruyne, etc etc. And always, always, stop counters happening by any means necessary.
Worth noting that this only covers fouls spotted.
The best tactical foul in history, must be that Ajax kid knocking over Ronaldo in the CL last season. Which was the total sum of his contribution to the match.
Suarez vs Ghana was pretty handy (no pun intended).
It's easy to define a tactical foul - a deliberate foul to stop the opposition. It's a yellow when done close to goal. City get away with it because they do it high up the pitch before it has time to look dangerous.
But basically intentional fouling should be a yellow as it is unsporting. I think people forget that fouling is actually breaking the rules, which is why the ref blows his whistle.
Matic 3 fouls, 2 yellows. City been tactically fouling all night, 1 yellow for pulling the shirt on a counter and even then he was reluctant to give the card.
We are idiots when we tactically foul. We need to do it with some level of plausible deniability, the way City and co do it.
I'm sure rodri should of had 2 in ten minutes but surprisingly enough got none, Friend was shocking tonight
This 100%, Matic's were naive to say the least both stonewall yellows. As was Rodri's. Not to act the cnut but Fernandinho's are never that blatant. They are tactical fouls but always with a "is it quite a booking" behind it. Of course they are tactical as feck but its much harder to call unless he's blatantly taking one for the team. Its a horrible aspect of the game but one both City, Liverpool and Spurs to an extent have mastered and always leave that doubt in the refs mind. We at City also blatantly take it in turns in taking bookings and making the foul. I'd wager while our midfield gets booked no more than other sides, our wingers have far more yellows.
Rodri’s foul in the first was worse than what Matic was booked for but Friend bought Mahrez’s pathetic play acting.
Five fouls.
Matic’s first booking wasn’t even worthy of a card. Rodri’s foul on Lingard in the first half was much worse yet he escaped censure entirely.
Pathetic refereeing tonight from Friend.
Pathetic refereeing tonight from Friend.
Can't stand tactical fouling, let the game flow ffs.
Friend will be in Pep’s office after the game asking if he can put his finger in his bellybutton.
Thanks for the mental image
Considering that Greenwood (I think) was slide tackled from behind without a yellow card being given you'd forgive Matic for thinking he wouldn't get booked for a simple trip. Then in the end Wan-Bissaka does a slide tackle on Jesus and is instantly booked.
There were two completely different standards applied tonight, even if you disregard "persistent fouling", which City were definitely guilty of. Another refereeing performance where pundits will say that he got all the big calls right but where the momentum of the game is heavily influenced by the referee in one team's favour due to being allowed to break up the other team's attacking opportunities, which will be largely ignored by experts.
There were two completely different standards applied tonight, even if you disregard "persistent fouling", which City were definitely guilty of. Another refereeing performance where pundits will say that he got all the big calls right but where the momentum of the game is heavily influenced by the referee in one team's favour due to being allowed to break up the other team's attacking opportunities, which will be largely ignored by experts.
I was thinking of thisThanks for the mental image
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-golden-bowl.435703/
That is not right. It is the same thing. The reason some get away with it and others don't can only be blamed on incompetent referees who are instructed to go into games looking at narratives and judge accordingly. City is perceived as a much better team who are dangerous in attack. That means Matic get a yellow for almost stopping 1 attack by slightly touching one player, but because United are perceived to be weak the ref do not rate our chances of scoring on the break. He thinks we are lucky to not lose the ball, and that we're lucky just to maybe be awarded a free-kick. No yellow.
It isn't about how you do it, it is just about the perception. It is pure bias.
Spot on mate, spot on. Two different rules for the two teams. Biased as can be.
Jaysus
They just showed the replays.
Both yellows were incredibly soft. Three didn't appear to be any contact for the first and he brushes against Gundogan for the second.
As well as the Rodri ones, Cancelo shoved James over with both hands and didn't get a yellow.
My god
I'm not going to deny there is some level of ref incompetence... however I've seen blatant attempts at stopping a potent counter get punished, whether the player is at City or at United or anywhere else. A lot of their dirty work gets done before the counter is on, and although you can infer that probably there's nefarious intent, it's not 100% obvious.
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I think it is very obvious, hence this thread. The problem is that the refs do not spot the difference in game, and they probably wont use VAR to solve this problem. If we can see it behind a screen, a man in the VAR room should be able to offer consistent decisions on this matter.
Nailed it. If this was a new tactic from City you could slightly excuse the officials. They've been consistently called out by opposing managers & players for a few years now though & nothing changes.
Sure!
In addition, I remember reading an article that highlighted their wingers (and) Fernandinho as having the most fouls on the team, which makes sense as the wingers act as the first line of defense and Fernandinho acts as the safety (for lack of a better word)
It's obvious they're fouling of course!
Is it obvious that the attempt is entirely cynical with no attempt to get the ball? It is not most of the time, which is why I say they do it so well. If you give a yellow for every foul that isn't crystal clear honest you'll send half the league off.
Yeah. No I get what you're saying. I do think not many teams use this tactic. In normal games these decisions seems to be easier. I find it weird that refs go into a game knowing a team will use their ignorance to their advantage. It's embarrassing for them how easy they are fooled by it. If I was a ref I would give the teams that are known for using such tactics a pre game speech about trying to play me for a fool, and follow it up with an early yellow card for a cynical foul by a forward, no matter how minimal. By doing this I have now created a platform where any small disguised foul will be under the microscope and if they can't win the ball cleanly they can't get the advantage of pressing high. If they foul, it's a yellow card.
Bring in a sin bin for this crap
Or just book them and they'd stop by the third game.
This 100%.
Also, if you are already booked, you definitely shouldn't do the foul in the first place. Idiotic foul.
Can't see them consistently enforcing cards. They're supposed to be doing it this season, and it's not happening
Ah I get what you're saying, refs should take their reputation into account from the start.
I feel Fergie would be much better at putting this sort of pressure on the refs leading up to every derby.
Refereeing has fallen behind football progression somewhat. Refs are still refereeing like they did 10 years ago. Time wasting isn't punished. Tactical fouls are considered tame. Some teams take more advantage than others over the stage of refereeing and sometimes they adjust to specific refereees. They still go about like they except fair play from teams but that isn't happening anymore. They've refereed fair play out of football by being too lenient on blatant cheating and time wasting.
Yeah, pretty much. If you can predict exactly when a foul's going to occur (multiple times) before a ball's even been kicked, then it's per definition calculated/cynical/tactical and should be punished according to the laws of the game. It's incredible how refs haven't got instructions regarding this.
Some great posts in here. Nothing will get done until we start to do it. City and Liverpool have got tactical fouls down to perfection. That's why they attack will wild abandonment, we wont win until we learn from the best.
Both yellows on Matic were soft as shit. City were getting away with worse all night.