Tactics 20/21: switching to 4-3-3

Invictus

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As pointed out previously by several posters, that midfield doesn't look well conceived or well balanced (especially from a defensive standpoint); and while Pogba has come up leaps and bounds wrt. defensive application, it would be a waste of his talent to sit as a deep-lying playmaker! I would expect two of Bruno, Pogba and van de Beek to start at once in the #10 and # 8 positions in a conventional 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3, and the simplest way to incorporate all three into the same starting XI would be to place a proper defensive screen behind them in a run-of-the-mill 4-1-2-1-2:



Works quite well, methinks...
  • Both Pogba and van de Beek have at least some sort of extended experience as side midfielders and neither with be overburdened with defensive tasks — the former is excellent at dribbling and acting as a vertical creator from midfield and latter scores quite a few goals (close to 30 in the last couple of seasons), so you'd want to give them the added bit of individual freedom to affect things near the opposition's goal — which is something that Ole acknowledges if you read van de Beek's recent interview:
  • Because of Bruno's workrate, the rhombus will be quite robust...front-to-back.
  • Tons of flexibility — Bruno can go to #8 while Pogba / van de Beek pop up as attackers, and it will also be easier to create overloads out wide.
  • Fred and McTominay can rotate in and out of that rhombus, and you could argue that it will be easier for a youngster like Mejbri to play in a rhombus with 3 seasoned professionals.
  • Works very well with our current batch of attackers as well — two of Rashford, Martial, Greenwood can start as the strike-duo.
Only outstanding issue is that our wingbacks aren't threatening/productive enough to man the flank alone on a consistent basis — and that could be an insurmountable one, unfortunately. Plus, Matić is our only proper holding/defensive screen with the requisite amount of positional nous — and we have no depth to speak of for that role (Fred doesn't count as he is a different type of midfielder).
 

deleon

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I was going to create a thread like this, but I don't like starting threads. So thanks for doing the work OP.

While the idea would make it easier to fit van de Beek into the team, that is not the main reason we should try it (at least as an alternative gameplan). As others have said, he is not guaranteed to be a starter.

Pogba's most reliable contribution in his time at United, in my opinion, has been his passing from deep. Despite the criticisms he has justifiably faced, he has often been the team's sole source of momentum in games when we have struggled to shift play to the final third. This has been less true since Fernandes' arrival. Nevertheless, I think his playmaking will always be more consistent and useful than his dribbling (a potent threat, but he is liable to carelessly lose possession in dangerous areas) and shooting (a rather latent threat, although we know it is in his locker).

Other than his tendency to be dispossessed, his defensive contribution has also left something to be desired. This is not withstanding that, technically and physically speaking, he is a decent tackler of the ball and has the agility to keep up with his opponent when he is in position. Despite this, he is too frequently on the wrong side of his man during defensive transitions, and his recovery runs are lacklustre. This has exposed our defence even when he is paired with a more defensive-minded partner.

Part of this is down to a perceived lack of appetite for doing the dirty work, whether because of an "attitude problem" or a "talisman's right" belief; part of this is down to the notion that getting caught out of position is part of being a box-to-box player. I am inclined to think that the former perception is false (at least since Mourinho's departure). In any event, there is not much to be done about it even if that is not the case. However, we can re-evaluate whether the box-to-box role brings out the best in our (at time of writing) record signing.

The idea of this switch is that fielding Pogba as the deepest-lying midfielder in an inverted triangle would maximise his playmaking ability at an acceptable cost that some aspects of his game be blunted.

In attack, his role is to transition the ball forward as quickly as possible. That means avoiding dwelling on the ball and venturing forward with it. After that, maintain enough distance from the final third and be prepared to quickly switch play or pose a longshot threat that forces opposition to close down and reassess their shape. We should see an increased tempo with the ball spending more time in dangerous areas if he is played right and can adopt a use-it-or-lose-it mentality, especially against compact oppositions.

In defence, his role is to use his physical presence to slow down counters and direct play to the flanks (preferably the right). Possibly, he can also cover for Maguire when the latter steps up for aerial challenges. Counter-intuitively, withholding his positioning actually places less defensive burden on him, by shifting the ball-winning duties to the advanced pair of midfielders, similar to midfields that featured Pirlo in his later seasons.

The key is discipline. We cannot (and should never) entirely extinguish Pogba's creative freedom. What I am hoping is that he can limit his risk-taking to when 10/10 opportunities arise.

Unlike a lot of posters, I think Pogba would be a beneficiary rather than a liability under the tactical switch. However, inverting the midfield would affect other players too, if not the entire style of play, for better or worse. Having two advanced midfielders supported by an anchor (albeit a non-defensive one) almost forces the team to press hard and press early. While most elite teams today favour an intense pressing game, we are not yet there tactically. If we try this against excellent technical sides we will be exposed. But most of our opponents are not excellent technical sides.

Another drawback is Fernandes' positioning. While van de Beek is reportedly a natural in the 8/10 hybrid role (I think Fred is better suited to this more advanced role too), Bruno has exclusively played in the hole since joining United (he had occasionally played a more withdrawn role in Portugal). Defensively he should be solid, as he has excellent workrate (for a pressing team; he will be exposed if asked to sit back and absorb pressure). Offensively, however, he would certainly have less space in which to operate, and withholding him from the final third would take a toll on his goal/assist numbers (not that these reflect the full extent of his contributions). Playing one key player out of position just so we can play another key player out of position sounds like a terrible idea at face value.

Nevertheless, I think Fernandes' ability to find and operate in small pockets of space allows him to be effective enough in this role to justify the change. It would also allow him to be even more involved in the buildup. The space he vacates might encourage whoever is playing upfront (ideally Martial; his linkup play is underrated) to drop deeper, which would somewhat justify fielding two wide players that both cut inside. Last season, with two inside-forwards and a no. 10, the final third was often overcrowded, making it easy for opponents to defend deep and narrow.

Overall though, it would be pretty dishonest to argue that Fernandes would not be any less effective in a hybrid role. But there is a a case for the trade-off of utilising Pogba in a way that speeds up transitions from the back and switches across the field, as well as a relatively balanced shape - more width than a diamond - of fielding a technically proficient front six. Pogba might be no Pirlo, but I think he is still a better Pirlo than a Pogba.
 

Adam-Utd

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What you are describing is a system with a DM and a DLP (although I'd argue Pogba is more B2B as he joins attacks too). And with VdB it will make a significant change to that system, swapping the DM for a B2B. That seems to be a lot more offensive and unbalanced midfield, in my opinion. And I doubt we will see it against any high pressing team.
It's literally no different than the Bayern midfield that just won the CL.

Goretzka as the b2b midfielder, and Thiago as the deep lying playmaker. The difference is when they lose the ball the whole team presses high and gives you no space to breathe, that's where we need to improve.

Pogba physically is no worse than Thiago, he just needs to adapt to the role but statistically he makes plenty of tackles and interceptions from midfield too.

Whether Ole will let them take it in turns to get into the box or not we will see, but from most of the things VDB has said, he wants him making 3rd man runs in the box as much as possible to help Bruno and Martial.
 
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In certain games Pogba could play as a DM. When we're expecting to see 80% possession.
 

romufc

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What is with everyone trying to get these players to play in the first 11?

We will be playing games every 3 days and we do not need to start these guys every week. Why are we so desperate to play our best 11 in every game?

I see the midfield of Fred, VDB and Bruno in our first game this season.

Then Bruno / VDB will be rotated with Pogba and Matic and McTominay with Fred.

Then it all comes down to form and injury.
 

OrcaFat

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Of course there will be rotations of players and changes of systems, but let's assume we have a Champions League knockout game tomorrow and every player on our books is 100% match fit and raring to go...

Matic starts, Pogba starts, Van de Beek starts, Fernandes starts.

For me, a good solution would be to play with Fernandes close to Martial in a 'Rooney' role - then Pogba can tuck in to make it a midfield 3, or roam out to the right/left to offer width when needed. I remember us doing something similar with Hargreaves in 2008, so the shape changed from a 4-3-3 to a 4-4-2 in-match. Then if we want to take control of the game, Pogba can tuck in, Fernandes can fall back and you've got 4 players in the middle of the pitch who are very difficult to get the ball from, you can strangle the opposition.

Solskjaer has some nice options.
Ole does have some nice options. I don’t quite agree with your analysis though. I can’t see all four of those guys starting in the same team. I think it will be some variant of 433, 4123, 4213, 4231. Honestly these are not really different in the real world - once the game starts, they have to be fluid.

If we play all four of those guys we can only play two of Rash, Tony and Mason (or Sancho, if we’re allowed to dream) and I just cannot see Ole going that route.
 

georgipep

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It's literally no different than the Bayern midfield that just won the CL.

Goretzka as the b2b midfielder, and Thiago as the deep lying playmaker. The difference is when they lose the ball the whole team presses high and gives you no space to breathe, that's where we need to improve.

Pogba physically is no worse than Thiago, he just needs to adapt to the role but statistically he makes plenty of tackles and interceptions from midfield too.

Whether Ole will let them take it in turns to get into the box or not we will see, but from most of the things VDB has said, he wants him making 3rd man runs in the box as much as possible to help Bruno and Martial.
And that Bayern team has another 10 different players too. Starting with a sweeper-keeper in Neuer which allows the whole defensive line to push up. I wouldn't even comment on Kimmich, Alaba and Davies...
I wouldn't go as far as comparing different teams and their tactics assuming things will magically just work the same way.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Very amusing seeing calls for Pogba as the DM considering the prior threads on here about needing to unburden him of any defensive duties.

I think his weaknesses in that position are well known. I can see why some might think he'd be the new Carrick but he'd be the 'bad Carrick' where he exposed the defence, let men run past him and got dispossessed when pressed.
You mean back when a good chunk of the Caf was whining about the Porsche being utilized as a Volkswagen? Just like some people are looking very hard nowadays to find a stick to beat Solskjaer with, back then some others would give no quarter to Mou. Sometimes it feels like politics on here: if the manager i like is at the helm, i'll dig a trench and defend him to the death. If he's not, i'll always find something to complain about.

The funny thing is that the main criticism usually being thrown at Carrick and denying him a place among the finest holding midfielders of his generation is that he's not "press resistant". But yeah, we should have Pogba screening the defence.

Generally, i think there's a misconception here regarding the roles of the holding midfielder and the deep-lying play-maker. They share similar traits but they're definitely not the same. United thrived with Carrick and Scholes/Giggs in the midfield because the duo complimented each other very well. Carrick's excellent positioning and short-passing ability would create little pockets of space which Scholes/Giggs would first identify and then take advantage of and spray their forward passes. Outside the build-up plays, in the attacking half, Carrick would again position himself in a way that would allow him to keep the ball rolling (thus keep the players moving) and it would be Scholes/Giggs and Rooney who would assume play-making duties and look for openings. Now, i don't think it's that hard to imagine which of these roles suits Pogba best. It's also not that hard to understand why with a proper holding midfielder on the pitch, our passing game has sweetened a bit and we can actually create situations when we can have both Pogba and Bruno just outside the box. People really underestimate these little passages of play that maintain the momentum and make players shift positions. Creativity isn't only about hollywood passes and assists.

Another thing is that people are suggesting that Solskjaer should drop his #10 role, in favour of two b2b players or a narrow system in which the FBs must be creative, when all the evidence indicates that with the right player in there (Bruno), his winning percentages skyrocketed. And one thing about the diamond is its rigidness. To make it work, you have to be disciplined and you have to stay compact. Not sure about how i would feel with Pogba and Fred in it or with taking the liberty to roam free and influence the play from Bruno to keep the shape. Somehow it feels too LvG-esque.

Long story short, United have still fundamental issues to solve in various positions on the pitch and while the manager and his staff are trying to fix them, i believe it's unwise to start tinkering with the roles of the two most influential players on the pitch just for the sake of chasing utopias. Our problem isn't Pogba and Bruno's role in Solskjaer's 4231. Our problem is that we're too dependent on them and this is what we should try to improve on.
 

Adam-Utd

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And that Bayern team has another 10 different players too. Starting with a sweeper-keeper in Neuer which allows the whole defensive line to push up. I wouldn't even comment on Kimmich, Alaba and Davies...
I wouldn't go as far as comparing different teams and their tactics assuming things will magically just work the same way.
There's a difference between saying they have better players. They play a 4-2-3-1 just like us and have a similar style style midifeld. The only difference is Gnabry and Coman/Perisic stay wider until they get the ball and then cut in, where as our forwards cut inside more often
 

YAMS49

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Ole loves his 4-2-3-1 or the hybrid that then turns in to. I read somewhere has has every team in the club playing this shape.

VDB can play the 10 or one of the holding 6/8's/whatever number you want to call them.
 

bosnian_red

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It's literally no different than the Bayern midfield that just won the CL.

Goretzka as the b2b midfielder, and Thiago as the deep lying playmaker. The difference is when they lose the ball the whole team presses high and gives you no space to breathe, that's where we need to improve.

Pogba physically is no worse than Thiago, he just needs to adapt to the role but statistically he makes plenty of tackles and interceptions from midfield too.

Whether Ole will let them take it in turns to get into the box or not we will see, but from most of the things VDB has said, he wants him making 3rd man runs in the box as much as possible to help Bruno and Martial.
Thiago is much better positionally than Pogba is and better at getting around to cover space and keep everything organized, and that'd be the main thing. He's also immune to pressing with his ability, as he almost never fecks up a touch or gets dispossessed while dribbling deeper, and just has the Xavi/Pirlo/Scholes like mentality and vision that he can handle that role. Pogba just isn't that, and hasn't ever shown he can be that. Not to mention the rest of the team, we can't just copy one set up to the other.
 

iHicksy

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Pogba as the one sitting in front of the back four would be a disaster for the team. The guy has fantastic technical quality on the ball but he severely lacks game intelligence and his worst attributes are all of the things you wouldn't want in a DM. He needs to be as far from defensively responsible as possible to get the best out of him.

Pogba Strengths:
  • Incredible long range passing
  • Ability to run with the ball whilst keeping possesion
  • Strength
  • Great Technical ability
Pogba Weaknesses:
  • Positional Discipline
  • Workrate
  • Gives the ball away in areas he shouldn't
  • Can dwell on the ball
Pogba's weaknesses come from his attitude towards football. He's not a Bruno type of player who will run all day and take players around him to another level (Bruno is similar to keane in this way, albeit via different pathways). He often takes more touches than he needs to because it appears he's trying to show the opposition how good he is on the ball at times. It almost seems like he's saying "i'm so good that i decide when I release the ball, not you" and this type of play style leads to him getting caught in possession on occasion. Often in areas which you can't afford to give the ball away.

Don't get me wrong, i'm a fan of Pogba's skill set and when he's on form I believe him to be the best centre mid in the world, whilst in possession of the ball. He simply has it all. But his attitude to the game isn't always what you would want. He sometimes seems like he's running at half mast. This was recently exemplified by his desire to protect his face and give away a penalty by committing a handball rather than take the hit is reprehensible at any level, let alone a Manchester united player. But, he's not going anywhere so you have to take the rough with the smooth. To minimise his weaknesses and get the most of his strengths we should be keeping him as far from defensive zones as possible.
 

Adam-Utd

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Thiago is much better positionally than Pogba is and better at getting around to cover space and keep everything organized, and that'd be the main thing. He's also immune to pressing with his ability, as he almost never fecks up a touch or gets dispossessed while dribbling deeper, and just has the Xavi/Pirlo/Scholes like mentality and vision that he can handle that role. Pogba just isn't that, and hasn't ever shown he can be that. Not to mention the rest of the team, we can't just copy one set up to the other.
I'm not disagreeing that Thiago is better at that role - purely speculating that Ole is trying to mimic it. Pogba definitely has the ability to do it, he just needs to adapt to the role.
 

Borys

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No he will rotate with Bruno and Pogba. His best position is as a 10 but can play a little further back. Would be wasted playing deep.
Huh. Strange move then, considering we only play one attacking midfield player, and he's behind two class players. I thought we're getting him for first XI.

The football world is obsessed with no 10s.
 

Bastian

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I could see us going with a 433 if we buy Reguilon and a first choice pacy centre back. Otherwise, we just don't have the full backs and the pace in our backline for it.
 

UpWithRivers

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Although Im excited by VDB for the life of me I cant work out how we get a balanced midfield. I dont even think Pogba-Matic with Fernandes as a 10 will work over the course of the season. As can be proved by Pogbas dramatic reduction in his attacking output - I think he got one goal and one assist after playing with Fernandes. Although Fernandes got a boat load that means Pogba is severely restricted. You could also see how it didnt work when we played Southampton and a few of the bigger games. Also it only just works if we have Matic playing. Fred and McTominay are no DM's. Yeah Fred played well against Sevilla. But only at the detriment of our defense. Matic drops deep into a DM role meaning that Maguire can cover the leftback. And the same for Lindelof. Against Seville the RB/LB were being ran ragged because Fred was pressing and not covering. Not his fault thats not his game. But it doesnt work tactically. The best think we could ever do is get Ndidi.

---Fernandes-----Pogba---
------------------Ndidi-----------

That would be the best midfield in terms of suiting our team tactically. We dont have the speed in CB's to play a high line and we dont have attacking fulbacks which is the fault of any other tactical style. This midfield can hold shape defensively then just get the ball to Pogba + Fernandes and the front 3.

Ndidi will never happen but what should happen is a cash plus swap with Fred. That would be a great deal for both clubs and both players. Fred would be great for Leicester and suit their formation alongside Tielemans. Similar to how we had Fred + McTominay works well. Two box to box players that are not particularly strong defensively but compliment each other. Unlike Pogba + another because Pogba can force himself to be more defensive but only at a detriment to his best abilities.
 

AsonUnique

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Huh. Strange move then, considering we only play one attacking midfield player, and he's behind two class players. I thought we're getting him for first XI.

The football world is obsessed with no 10s.
It's depth, we have a ton of games this season, Mata played in 37 games this last season. VdB playing in those or in place of Lingard and Pereira would be a huge upgrade.
 

RashyForPM

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No change of tactic for me. Never change what works, especially when it brought us to no league losses in 9 months and counting. Stick to the 4-2-3-1.

Henderson (he had a better season)
AWB Lindelof (Upamecano in 2021) Slab Shaw
Pogba Matic
Sancho (we’ll back down) Bruno Rashy
Martial

Pogba, Bruno and VdB will rotate based on fatigue, injuries and most importantly, who is in better form. Bruno should be the more untouchable one due to his penalty prowess as we get a lot of pens and our conversion record before he came in was dreadful.
 

georgipep

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There's a difference between saying they have better players. They play a 4-2-3-1 just like us and have a similar style style midifeld. The only difference is Gnabry and Coman/Perisic stay wider until they get the ball and then cut in, where as our forwards cut inside more often
Better players make some systems work. Do you think Championship clubs can play with Pep tactics even if their players retained similar shape and instructions? You need top class execution of such high-risk/high-reward tactics. Bayern system relies on having the quality to retain possession and when with the ball to be able to punish the opponent. While I really like our team, I wouldn't be confident just asking them to player 'the Bayern way' and expect similar results. We do not have a commanding goalkeeper to organize the defense and act as sweeper as well. Our CBs will never push as high as Bayern's as a result. If the rest of midfield and attack plays the Bayern tactics it will leave a huge gap between midfield and defense. High-pressing teams will punish us repeatedly.
 

Adam-Utd

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Better players make some systems work. Do you think Championship clubs can play with Pep tactics even if their players retained similar shape and instructions? You need top class execution of such high-risk/high-reward tactics. Bayern system relies on having the quality to retain possession and when with the ball to be able to punish the opponent. While I really like our team, I wouldn't be confident just asking them to player 'the Bayern way' and expect similar results. We do not have a commanding goalkeeper to organize the defense and act as sweeper as well. Our CBs will never push as high as Bayern's as a result. If the rest of midfield and attack plays the Bayern tactics it will leave a huge gap between midfield and defense. High-pressing teams will punish us repeatedly.
Sure.

Swansea did it with Rodgers, Leeds have done it recently with Bielsa, Wigan back with Roberto Martinez.

Bayern don't even play that complicated, the best thing about them is their pressing.
 

Berbasbullet

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I really want to see how this side does in a 433 with Pogba and Bruno sharing the attacking burden, I know it might suffer defensively but be a pleasure to watch.
 

Dante

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Pogba as the one sitting in front of the back four would be a disaster for the team. The guy has fantastic technical quality on the ball but he severely lacks game intelligence and his worst attributes are all of the things you wouldn't want in a DM. He needs to be as far from defensively responsible as possible to get the best out of him.

Pogba Strengths:
  • Incredible long range passing
  • Ability to run with the ball whilst keeping possesion
  • Strength
  • Great Technical ability
Pogba Weaknesses:
  • Positional Discipline
  • Workrate
  • Gives the ball away in areas he shouldn't
  • Can dwell on the ball
Pogba's weaknesses come from his attitude towards football. He's not a Bruno type of player who will run all day and take players around him to another level (Bruno is similar to keane in this way, albeit via different pathways). He often takes more touches than he needs to because it appears he's trying to show the opposition how good he is on the ball at times. It almost seems like he's saying "i'm so good that i decide when I release the ball, not you" and this type of play style leads to him getting caught in possession on occasion. Often in areas which you can't afford to give the ball away.

Don't get me wrong, i'm a fan of Pogba's skill set and when he's on form I believe him to be the best centre mid in the world, whilst in possession of the ball. He simply has it all. But his attitude to the game isn't always what you would want. He sometimes seems like he's running at half mast. This was recently exemplified by his desire to protect his face and give away a penalty by committing a handball rather than take the hit is reprehensible at any level, let alone a Manchester united player. But, he's not going anywhere so you have to take the rough with the smooth. To minimise his weaknesses and get the most of his strengths we should be keeping him as far from defensive zones as possible.
Agree with all of this.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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let‘s stop being arrogant by using cliche referrals to FM or FIFA. FM terminology is handy to explain tactics and deservedly widely used. constructive criticism is welcome.

What attributes MCT and Scott possess (Matic can be a DLP) that make them better than Pogba in that positions.

P.S. sick and tired of all these “smart“ posters
Which is great if you play those games. It's not so handy when you have to work out what everyone is talking about.

For example...what is a DLP?
 

Chaky_Best

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Think we can switch to a 4-3-3 only when Bruno is not playing.

When he's there, it will be 4231 or 352

He's not fast enough to play as a winger in a 433 and would be a waste of quality to play him too deep
 

georgipep

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Sure.

Swansea did it with Rodgers, Leeds have done it recently with Bielsa, Wigan back with Roberto Martinez.

Bayern don't even play that complicated, the best thing about them is their pressing.
If you think Swansea, Leeds, Wigan and Pep's Man City play with the same tactics, and Bayern's tactics are complicated, I really can't argue with you.

I strongly disagree on both counts and it seems we have huge differences in our perception of football.
 

Adam-Utd

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If you think Swansea, Leeds, Wigan and Pep's Man City play with the same tactics, and Bayern's tactics are complicated, I really can't argue with you.

I strongly disagree on both counts and it seems we have huge differences in our perception of football.
No teams play 100% identically but they can share the same identity.

Retain possession, high defensive lines and pressing.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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The issue about Pogba playing in that role is that he lacks awareness what's around him before receiving the ball which give him easy target for modern football of high press. If his playmaking ability is as good as De Jong, that role will suit him but he's isn't. He's very good with his passing ability, his vision to pick up anyone but not off the ball when it's very important for deep playmaker to always make yourself available anytime and aware what's around you so you don't lose the ball in dangerous area.

Unless if he can improve those aspects, I don't see we will ever see him playing in that deep alone except during the game when we are behind and need to score goals by throwing attackers to our XI. I think it'll be 442 diamond if we want to see the three Donny, Bruno & Pogba to start in XI together.
 

hobbers

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The narrow diamond would only thrive with full backs who are competent going forward. Certainly not Williams (if Shaw is injured) and AWB.
 

RickG19

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In 2007/08 I believe we had Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson Fletcher and Hargreaves. If you could go back to then, would you be frantically scrambling to fit them all into the same midfield? No, because it is a long season and we are battling in the CL + PL.

I believe Bruno is the most indespinsible. VDB and Pogba will be picked according to their form / fitness of Bruno. We don't need to cram all of our best mids into the same team! It is good to have competition!
 

jackal&hyde

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The Van de beek signing reminds me of when we bagged Keane. I'm convinced he has the tactical and footballing intelligence to play just like Keane at the base of any midfield formation we employ. Without losing the ability to influence things further upfield.
I never thought of it like that but yes, he does seem much more suited to play that role rather the Pogba.
 

ThinkTank@Cafe

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A lot of good thoughts in a forgotten tactical thread :)

I think 433 with Pogba at the base and a pair of ridiculously talented hybrid b2bs can make revolution. Don’t be too pessimistic, life is full of surprise.
If we add a creative winger on the right we might become a prime Barca style attacking team. Solskjaer will show his positional attacking skills this season with now perfectly upgraded midfield.
 

croadyman

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A lot of good thoughts in a forgotten tactical thread :)

I think 433 with Pogba at the base and a pair of ridiculously talented hybrid b2bs can make revolution. Don’t be too pessimistic, life is full of surprise.
If we add a creative winger on the right we might become a prime Barca style attacking team. Solskjaer will show his positional attacking skills this season with now perfectly upgraded midfield.
Where is that creative winger coming from?
 

Santoryo

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You’re asking an, essentially, attacking player to make a full switch to a defensive role. It’s not a case of Giggs/Martial/Cristiano etc., where players had to slightly adjust.

More so, the issues with positional discipline and defensive workrate is not something that Pogba can overcome with ease – you’re talking like no one had ever asked him to perform this role before and if someone would’ve asked, he would’ve learned it already. He fell out with Mourinho exactly because Mourinho tried to make him a more all-rounded midfielder with a significant improvement in his defensive effort... and it wasn’t even a holding midfield role that you suggest for him.

It’s like picking some random midfielder that can’t score even if his life was on the stake (not technically poor, just impotent in front of the goal) and put him as a number 9 because he’s fast and holds the ball well.
Isn't that basically Firmino? A midfield turned striker and almost hopeless in front of goals by strikers standards.