ten Hag vs The Players - Who do you think will win out?

[Idxomer]

No they didnt. There was a lot of friction reported between manager and a couple players, and the football wasnt exciting. But we didnt ride our luck as much as you're inferring.

The players he openly mugged off have also been the players who showed the most inconsistency and terrible performances post his departure.

Now I know you're making up history. We scored one of the most since SAF and ended with 81 pts and a goal difference of 40, which if I am not mistaken is one of the widest, if not the widest margin over the course of a season.

We absolutely did.

Our xPTS was 62, De Gea had the best season of his career and conceded 15 goals less than expected. Our forwards were very clinical and outperformed their xGs. Our players overperformed and carried Mourinho that season to 2nd place.

 

[bosnian_red]

There isn't going to be a huge rebellion against Ten Hag as Ten Hag knows what he is doing. Players will be naturally be upset and lose faith eventually in a manager with so little previous experience as Ole, failing to do anything significant in 3 years. They aren't being coached by MLS coaches now. They aren't playing shit on a stick football. Ten Hag will have them playing attacking football, sure you'll always have your complainers, but it won't be the majority as they'll actually be coached well and play in a way that is a lot more enjoyable.

 

[VP89]

He did spend $400M. I posted the TransferMarkt link and you ignored it
https://www.transfermarkt.us/manchester-united/alletransfers/verein/985

OK let's put it this way. How did he spend relative to LVG before him and Ole after him. And relatively, how successful was he after 2 seasons?

Then, explain the logic to not back him after two summers but back the others.

You're shifting goalposts. He bought CBs in consecutive windows and spent a good amount on them. He doesn't get a blank check to continually correct his mistakes.

I am shifting nothing. In a 3rd season if you think having another CB after Bailey breaks his ankle is some sort of Mourinho mistake, you need to give your head a wobble. Maybe Guardiola shouldn't have been granted full back after full back before he got it right, eh?

Never said they rode their luck, but the results did flatter especially in the latter half of the season (see the 3-2 vs City).

Again, they didn't.

Moreover if the football was atrocious and dull why would you allow him to spend $200M again for more of that?

Because he was at least making us relevant. Also I don't know why you keep quoting 200m eur. Even if he was granted Maguire it would've been something. He didnt even want Fred reportedly.

He bought most of them...

No. He didn't buy Shaw, Martial, Rashford. Pogba sure.

Repeating myself again, most of this was due to how they started the beginning of the season. The first 7 games of the season had four 4-0 score lines (+19 differential during that stretch)

We may not have been swiping away sides 4-0 but that doesn't mean we rode our luck thereafter too much.

Astute buy? He was signed on a free transfer. Regardless, do you honestly think any of those players would have made United into title contenders? You seem to be trying really hard to save face.


Didn't back him at all? He spent $90M after the second season and still complained...

Again giving him free rein to buy as he did in the previous two seasons would have been disastrous for the club. It's crazy this is even a debate.

For as long as he kept us competitive and was still our manager, yes. Sack him after season two if you think its sour but dont keep and then refuse to back. You are basically signalling to the players that hes very dispensable and the rest is history (see Pogbas antics in literally GW1 of Season 3).

Im not saying Jose should've stayed. Im saying 1) he wasnt backed in season 3, 2) thats thick because you keep and continue the project or you sack and bring a new man for progressing beyond Jose. Consequently to how we handled the situation, 3) the players were given too much influence to revolt and things obviously turned sour thereafter.

 

[MackRobinson]

OK let's put it this way. How did he spend relative to LVG before him and Ole after him. And relatively, how successful was he after 2 seasons?

Then, explain the logic to not back him after two summers but back the others.

Ole and LVG both spent less than him in their first two seasons. It's in the same link

I am shifting nothing. In a 3rd season if you think having another CB after Bailey breaks his ankle is some sort of Mourinho mistake, you need to give your head a wobble. Maybe Guardiola shouldn't have been granted full back after full back before he got it right, eh?

Then you get cover, not the most expensive CB in the market. City operates under a different set of financial conditions. Not even worth making that comparison.

Again, they didn't.

You misremember.

Because he was at least making us relevant. Also I don't know why you keep quoting 200m eur. Even if he was granted Maguire it would've been something. He didnt even want Fred reportedly.

B/c that's what he spent in previous windows. He spent nearly $90M in his third year. Convenient there is no mention of who he wanted instead of Fred.

No. He didn't buy Shaw, Martial, Rashford. Pogba sure.

So what's the excuse for the simply underperforming players like Sanchez? Matic? Lindeloff?

For as long as he kept us competitive and was still our manager, yes. Sack him after season two if you think its sour but dont keep and then refuse to back. You are basically signalling to the players that hes very dispensable and the rest is history (see Pogbas antics in literally GW1 of Season 3).

Im not saying Jose should've stayed. Im saying 1) he wasnt backed in season 3, 2) thats thick because you keep and continue the project or you sack and bring a new man for progressing beyond Jose. Consequently to how we handled the situation, 3) the players were given too much influence to revolt and things obviously turned sour thereafter.

You can also give him the chance to work under tighter fiscal constraints. This is not FIFA or Football Manager. It's illogical to spend $200M every transfer window. Players weren't given too much influence. The manager's tactics and man-management were simply poor. It was a failure of leadership on many levels but Mourinho was the worst.

If you didn't think he should have been sacked in the second season, by default you're saying he should have stayed...

 

[VP89]

Ole and LVG both spent less than him in their first two seasons. It's in the same link


Then you get cover, not the most expensive CB in the market. City operates under a different set of financial conditions. Not even worth making that comparison.


You misremember.


B/c that's what he spent in previous windows. He spent nearly $90M in his third year. Convenient there is no mention of who he wanted instead of Fred.


So what's the excuse for the simply underperforming players like Sanchez? Matic? Lindeloff?


You can also give him the chance to work under tighter fiscal constraints. This is not FIFA or Football Manager. It's illogical to spend $200M every transfer window. Players weren't given too much influence. The manager's tactics and man-management were simply poor. It was a failure of leadership on many levels but Mourinho was the worst.

If you didn't think he should have been sacked in the second season, by default you're saying he should have stayed...

Jesus this is becoming a completely different debate now. You're missing the actual point I made.

In the derailment Ive made different points such as mentioning the players he openly mugged off were the ones who actually ended up being inconsistent. And you're taking about Matic and Sanchez.

And then you're talking about how he spent a lot in the first two windows when this was never my point. My reference to lack of backing is after season 2. Ole was backed to kick on despite us looking WORSE with no cups.

 

[roonster09]

My point is after season 2. Ole was backed to kick on despite us looking WORSE with no cups. Stop micro analysing every point and making up new arguments.

So spending 75 million under Jose means he wasn't backed, does that mean Ole wasn't backed in his second season when he spent around 75 million?

 

[VP89]

So spending 75 million under Jose means he wasn't backed, does that mean Ole wasn't backed in his second season when he spent around 75 million?

The debate weve been having has looked at gross figures. I dont think managers decide the amount as much, and they cant exactly negotiate the sales. But Ole was given 2 defenders, a winger and a midfielder in the same season.

Wan bissaka, Maguire, James, Bruno and he inherited some players from Joses time that meant he had less holes to fill in certain areas (at least in his view). Fair to say he was keen on Pogba for example, and Matic/Fred.

I think Ole was backed beyond that, in his 3rd season, when he deserved feck all. To be frank, Ole deserved no backing whatsoever and should have been out from season 1 (ideally he should have just been a caretaker).

 

[Chesterlestreet]

For now I choose to believe (I have been very wrong before) that Arnold and Murtough realize that player power (in any shape or form) is not the way to go.

They'll have Erik's back to begin with - 100%.

 

[roonster09]

The debate weve been having has looked at gross figures. I dont think managers decide the amount as much, and they cant exactly negotiate the sales. But Ole was given 2 defenders, a winger and a midfielder in the same season.

Wan bissaka, Maguire, James, Bruno and he inherited some players from Joses time that meant he had less holes to fill in certain areas (at least in his view). Fair to say he was keen on Pogba for example, and Matic/Fred.

I think Ole was backed beyond that, in his 3rd season, when he deserved feck all. To be frank, Ole deserved no backing whatsoever and should have been out from season 1 (ideally he should have just been a caretaker).

We also sold/released players like Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia, Sanchez, Darmian, Young, Fellaini in first 2 years. So there was always holes in the squad.

I don't know which 2 defenders were signed in his second season, I remember only Telles.

Ideally none of the managers we hired deserved any blind backing, just because people love some manager doesn't mean they should have been backed blindly putting club's health at risk. As it is, every single manager was backed, if any manager says they weren't then they are just making excuses for their failure.

 

[VP89]

We also sold/released players like Lukaku, Smalling, Herrera, Valencia, Sanchez, Darmian, Young, Fellaini in first 2 years. So there was always holes in the squad.

I don't know which 2 defenders were signed in his second season, I remember only Telles.

Ideally none of the managers we hired deserved any blind backing, just because people love some manager doesn't mean they should have been backed blindly putting club's health at risk. As it is, every single manager was backed, if any manager says they weren't then they are just making excuses for their failure.

I was referring to the season with Maguire AWB, Bruno in Jan and Dan James.

I agree. But my original point has been completey derailed from micro analysis and some tangential debates.

 

[roonster09]

I was referring to the season with Maguire AWB, Bruno in Jan and Dan James.

I agree. But my original point has been completey derailed from micro analysis and some tangential debates.

Season with Maguire, AWB was his first season. He spent just 74 million in his second season.

Anyways I don't agree with anyone who says any manager was not backed, for some weird reasons ManUtd fans have unconditional love for managers who don't even deserve it. Fact is, apart from Moyes, we spent big money under every manager, getting them new starting 11s. Every single one of them (except Moyes) were given lot of time to improve the side and challenge for the league.

The reason why we are in this shit position is not because of one person, it's because of every single manager we hired post SAF and Woodward.

 

[MadDogg]

No club will (or should) back a manager over the players if that manager isn't good enough. Letting a failing manager gut the dressing room is just making it harder to move forward.

There were already big question marks being raised over Mourinho in the second half of his second season. Our playstyle was poor, most of his signings had been expensive failures, his comments and quotes were already starting to try to shift blame to everyone but himself, and it already appeared that the dressing room was starting to fracture (something that has happened at every single club that Mourinho has ever been at for longer than two seasons). And in hindsight, the players that he wanted to sign at the point where he 'wasn't backed' have all (with the possibly exception of Perisic) gone on to prove they would have been poor signings, just like most of the players that he did actually sign. The fact that Maguire is public enemy #1 for much of our fanbase yet from memory is clearly in the top two best (alongside Perisic) of those signings that he wasn't 'allowed' to make says it all.

Then we followed him with Solskjaer. Short-term he was a good appointment. Turned that poisonous atmosphere that Jose had left us and got us going again, helping our young team enjoy their football again and encouraging them to play a more attacking style. However we needed to either leave it as just a short-term appointment and bring somebody else in fulltime, or at least surround him with established quality coaches. We did neither, and although we did well in patches there was never any real structure to our play or development of our players. Most of his signings were also poor. As such, why would we continue backing him when things absolutely go to shit?

Ultimately, we had a dressing room filled with young and talented players. Between Mourinho and Ole, we basically wasted six years with no real coaching or system to help those players develop. Now we're looking at those players saying that they haven't developed and Mourinho was right to want to get rid of them, ignoring that he and Ole (and the coaching team they surround themselves with) are a big reason for that. Not the only reason, but there's not a doubt that they are a contributing factor. If we'd had proper modern style and coaching system throughout the last six years I fully expect at least some of these players that we consider failures to have done much better. We're not talking one or two years here; it's six years which is a huge chunk of a players career.

Managers should get the amount of power that they ultimately deserve. There seems to be a myth that other managers are getting huge backing while we're the only club favouring the players. In reality do you think the likes or Real, Barca, City, Chelsea, Bayern, etc would have backed Mourinho or Ole as much as we did if they'd had identical performances for them? Of course not. They would have had even less backing and those clubs would have just got rid of them and bought in the next manager. In the time that we gave those two they would probably have gone through three or four managers in their quest to succeed.

Ten Hag should get a similar level of backing as what we showed Mourinho and Ole in their first year or two. It's then up to him to then prove he deserves that level of power going forward. The more positives he brings, the more power he should have to wield.

 

[Revaulx]

Season with Maguire, AWB was his first season. He spent just 74 million in his second season.

Anyways I don't agree with anyone who says any manager was not backed, for some weird reasons ManUtd fans have unconditional love for managers who don't even deserve it. Fact is, apart from Moyes, we spent big money under every manager, getting them new starting 11s. Every single one of them (except Moyes) were given lot of time to improve the side and challenge for the league.

The reason why we are in this shit position is not because of one person, it's because of every single manager we hired post SAF and Woodward.

I think there's an excellent case for arguing that the club failed to bring in the players Jose needed to make his style of football a success. And whether he OKd certain players or not is irrelevant. Someone should have realised Pogba was a bad fit, regardless of whether Jose wanted him at Chelsea (or United).

The thing is though that you can apply that argument every bit as much to the other failed managers. Sancho and Ronaldo were daft choices for Ole whether he wanted them or not, yet people aren't queuing up to make excuses for him on the grounds that he "wasn't backed". And he finished second as well.

Was Moyes backed by Woodward signing Mata? Was there ever a less Moyes-y player?

At least the money that's being spent this summer seems to be going to players who will suit the manager's system. Hooray!

 

[roonster09]

I think there's an excellent case for arguing that the club failed to bring in the players Jose needed to make his style of football a success. And whether he OKd certain players or not is irrelevant. Someone should have realised Pogba was a bad fit, regardless of whether Jose wanted him at Chelsea (or United).

The thing is though that you can apply that argument every bit as much to the other failed managers. Sancho and Ronaldo were daft choices for Ole whether he wanted them or not, yet people aren't queuing up to make excuses for him on the grounds that he "wasn't backed". And he finished second as well.

Was Moyes backed by Woodward signing Mata? Was there ever a less Moyes-y player?

At least the money that's being spent this summer seems to be going to players who will suit the manager's system. Hooray!

That's just making excuses for managers, if they wanted the player and club and manger agreed with the player, then there is no point micro analyzing which player was at which position in the list.

Just because Pogba didn't work out as expected, it's easy to say we shouldn't have signed as he didn't suit manager, and on the other hand, just because one player was not signed, people have started how manger wasn't backed. If anything club should be given credit for breaking record fee to bring the player manager wanted. With the benefit of hindsight we shouldn't have but again, it would lead to different arguments where we should argue everything based on hindsight.

You are saying Mata isn't a Moyes-y player and then we almost had a deal with Kroos and I can't think of a less Moyes-y CM than Kroos.

It's simple, Jose, Ole, Van Gaal got the players they wanted, spent lot of money on transfers and wages and didn't achieve what was expected. Only manager who didn't get time was Moyes and he never deserved it, going by how shit we were.

 

[Revaulx]

That's just making excuses for managers, if they wanted the player and club and manger agreed with the player, then there is no point micro analyzing which player was at which position in the list.

Just because Pogba didn't work out as expected, it's easy to say we shouldn't have signed as he didn't suit manager, and on the other hand, just because one player was not signed, people have started how manger wasn't backed. If anything club should be given credit for breaking record fee to bring the player manager wanted. With the benefit of hindsight we shouldn't have but again, it would lead to different arguments where we should argue everything based on hindsight.

You are saying Mata isn't a Moyes-y player and then we almost had a deal with Kroos and I can't think of a less Moyes-y CM than Kroos.

It's simple, Jose, Ole, Van Gaal got the players they wanted, spent lot of money on transfers and wages and didn't achieve what was expected. Only manager who didn't get time was Moyes and he never deserved it, going by how shit we were.

Maybe they did. I still reckon that agents and selling clubs had a greater role in "pushing" players to United than managers or scouts had in "pulling" them. I think we'll have to disagree on that. I'm looking forward to Woodward's autobiography; it's a shame Raiola won't get a chance to write one.

The main point that the Jose fans fail to grasp is that IF he wasn't "backed", neither were the others. The notion that Jose was the sole victim is absurd.

 

[roonster09]

The main point that the Jose fans fail to grasp is that IF he wasn't "backed", neither were the others. The notion that Jose was the sole victim is absurd.

Agreed.

 

[Kag]

You’ve taken a fair bit of creative licence with those Rashford comments.

This isn’t an either/or, let’s be honest. If Ten Hag fails, then it’s the owners and those at the top who will carry the can.

 

[SoCross]

10 hags vs 11 players hmm.

Hags are notoriously difficult despite being slightly on the older side and I don’t think the players really fancy going one on one with a hag, even though there’s a two on one situation also in there.

Money on the hags.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

Paul Pogba and to a lesser extent Jesse Lingard were the real trouble makers within the squad. Pogba was like the pied piper, and I believe that he had a clique that hung on his every word and his every action.

I know that McTominay is the United whipping boy, but I get the impression that he wasn't one of the players who was under the thrall of Pogba.

Without the bad influence of Paul Pogba, there will no rebellion. I'm positive of that.

Ten Hag will whip these players onto shape with training drills, his demands of them on the field and off and he'll get the best out of them. Those players who fail to impress will be demoted to the reserve team and replaced by a youth product, as a warning that you either match the standards set by ETH or you leave.

 

[VanDeBank]

I think ETH has a feeling Arnold will be different from Woodward. I think LVG let on he discussed this with ETH.

If it's true, ETH will be backed if it comes to a clash.

 

[bosnian_red]

I think there's an excellent case for arguing that the club failed to bring in the players Jose needed to make his style of football a success.

There's also the argument that whatever the signings, the style of football Jose wanted simply was never going to beat out Pep Guardiola with similar or more resources. Peps simply a better manager. Jose did well for 1.5 seasons, but he has especially shown since then that he just isn't a top manager anymore. That had started before he came to United. Spend all the money in the world, Mourinho won't be able to implement a superior system to Pep or Klopp. The exact same applies to Ole and Moyes. Van Gaal as well, he's a good coach but he also has pretty much done nothing in club football in ages. Its different to international football.

This is the key difference to Ten Hag. You want to compete with the best, then bring in a manager who is capable of it. Its simply unfair to ask Ole to compete with the 2 best in the world, he's not at that level. When the manager is more important than any single player, why cheap out on that position or bring in someone who is past it? I'm glad we went the correct route now, and I'm sure Ten Hag will show it in time.

 

[Loon]

He’s getting in players who either trust his rep or have worked with him. He’s going to weed out dissenters so that he is firmly in charge and his players are following him.

 

[Revaulx]

There's also the argument that whatever the signings, the style of football Jose wanted simply was never going to beat out Pep Guardiola with similar or more resources. Peps simply a better manager. Jose did well for 1.5 seasons, but he has especially shown since then that he just isn't a top manager anymore. That had started before he came to United. Spend all the money in the world, Mourinho won't be able to implement a superior system to Pep or Klopp. The exact same applies to Ole and Moyes. Van Gaal as well, he's a good coach but he also has pretty much done nothing in club football in ages. Its different to international football.

This is the key difference to Ten Hag. You want to compete with the best, then bring in a manager who is capable of it. Its simply unfair to ask Ole to compete with the 2 best in the world, he's not at that level. When the manager is more important than any single player, why cheap out on that position or bring in someone who is past it? I'm glad we went the correct route now, and I'm sure Ten Hag will show it in time.

Oh I agree. Though I still reckon that he wasn’t helped by Woodward’s idiotic recruitment. When Jose asked for Matić, there was nobody around to say “Great idea Jose, but don’t you think he’s a bit past it? Let’s see who our scouts can suggest that’s like him but younger?”

Anyway, the main problem with Jose wasn’t so much his style of play as the fact that he no longer seemed to believe in it. There’s no way that series of craven CL exits culminating in ‘Eritage would have happened earlier in his career; Chelsea was riding high when they put in those atrociously cautious performances v PSG. Of course, his not believing in it as passionately inevitably led to the players not believing in it either.

 

[Rightnr]

Paul Pogba and to a lesser extent Jesse Lingard were the real trouble makers within the squad. Pogba was like the pied piper, and I believe that he had a clique that hung on his every word and his every action.

I know that McTominay is the United whipping boy, but I get the impression that he wasn't one of the players who was under the thrall of Pogba.

Without the bad influence of Paul Pogba, there will no rebellion. I'm positive of that.

Ten Hag will whip these players onto shape with training drills, his demands of them on the field and off and he'll get the best out of them. Those players who fail to impress will be demoted to the reserve team and replaced by a youth product, as a warning that you either match the standards set by ETH or you leave.

Amazing how effective the Glazers and their media chums are at convincing people of utter tripe.

Anyone who thinks Rashie is a good boy is hella deluded.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

Amazing how effective the Glazers and their media chums are at convincing people of utter tripe.

Anyone who thinks Rashie is a good boy is hella deluded.

Yeah. Maybe we all imagined Jose calling Pogba a virus. We also imagined Pogba's ex-agent and Pogba's brothers stir the pot at every single opportunity. We imagined Pogba flirting with Real Madrid and we also imagined Pogba missing 90 matches for United through "injury".

It was all but a dream.

Bobby will appear in the shower any moment now.

The proof of the pudding will be the upcoming season.

 

[Red00012]

So how long before the red tops publish the headline “players unimpressed by ETH appointment - wanted Poch

 

[USREDEVIL]

Maybe i'm naive but i don't think this is going to turn into Manger v. Players this time.
Pogs gone, Lingard Gone, Ronaldo probably gone - so not much player power left.
Manager doesn't take shit and he's renowned for his coaching abilities.

 

[John Dillinger]

Agree with this.
Footballers are on the whole, thick.

They know this manager won't stand for any nonsense, and in a different way to how it was under Jose.

Jose when he arrived at United was already 'damaged goods' to a certain degree, and a whiff of yesterdays man about him.

Not so this manager, who is on an impressive upward trajectory.

I reckon the players are looking forward to some fresh ideas, modern coaching and proper direction.

 

[sunama]

ETH vs The Players - who wins?
The players, of course!

We know for a fact that this set of players have thrown multiple managers under the bus and got the manager fired.
I'd have to be a complete imbecile to believe that the manager would win in a 'Manager vs Players' battle, given what has happened over the last 9 years.
The club side with the players, because the players are assets. In a business, you protect your assets. This is also the reason why we tend to renew contracts of players who are not good enough to play. The only time a player leaves or does not renew his contract is when that player himself makes the decision not to continue with MUFC. Pogba and Lingard are the best examples of this. If P and L wanted to renew their contracts, the club would be ecstatic.

 

[sunama]

Amazing how effective the Glazers and their media chums are at convincing people of utter tripe.

Anyone who thinks Rashie is a good boy is hella deluded.

It's baffling.
These people who believe that player power is over, are probably the same sort of men who have a wife who cheats on them multiple times, and they believe that she won't do it ever again.
I was not aware that it was possible for people to be so gullible.....but I've learned something new today.

 

[Infra-red]

Many on here were in favour of backing the players over Mourinho in 2018, but I think everyone now sees how player power undermines the entire enterprise of building a successful team. It is important that the club makes it clear to the players that Ten Hag is their boss and, quite simply, is more important than them.

 

[wolvored]

ETH vs The Players - who wins?
The players, of course!

We know for a fact that this set of players have thrown multiple managers under the bus and got the manager fired.
I'd have to be a complete imbecile to believe that the manager would win in a 'Manager vs Players' battle, given what has happened over the last 9 years.
The club side with the players, because the players are assets. In a business, you protect your assets. This is also the reason why we tend to renew contracts of players who are not good enough to play. The only time a player leaves or does not renew his contract is when that player himself makes the decision not to continue with MUFC. Pogba and Lingard are the best examples of this. If P and L wanted to renew their contracts, the club would be ecstatic.

But according to Pogba he wanted to re-sign again 18 months ago, but the club offered him nothing. Lingard just wasnt offered a new contract.

 

[Belisarius]

Maybe i'm naive but i don't think this is going to turn into Manger v. Players this time.
Pogs gone, Lingard Gone, Ronaldo probably gone - so not much player power left.
Manager doesn't take shit and he's renowned for his coaching abilities.

We'll see. Ronaldo seems to be doing his best to completely disrupt managers pre-season preparations. It's not a good way to start.

 

[RkkMan]

It's baffling.
These people who believe that player power is over, are probably the same sort of men who have a wife who cheats on them multiple times, and they believe that she won't do it ever again.
I was not aware that it was possible for people to be so gullible.....but I've learned something new today.

Difference this time is we don't have Woodward in charge who prioritized money/assets over football and was always going to choose the superstars first(in this case Pogba is gone, Ronaldo will follow and the stock of players like Martial and Maguire is critically low for anyone to side with. De Gea is the only banana skin but if Rooney can be phased out De Gea can albeit over time)
Murtough being an actual football man and not a banker masquerading as a DOF will actually side with the manager on the football side of things if things possibly go sour.

 

[merc1976]

more than player power it’s the expectations which result in departures. Players as a whole want to win trophies - If you are not a mid table team. If manager is unable to fulfill the expectations of the best players then they will leave unless convinced by a large salary.
ETH is rebuilding but with players who have potential. Not every signing will work at this league. The higher the quality of a player the greater is chance of success. When you pay 15m for Malacia then it is to say he is potentially worth much more but if he doesn’t perform then a smaller hit. De Jong at 70 is a good player expecting future trophies and recognition on european stage. The expectations from both player and club is different for the 2 players. Manager has to deliver else you will always have a disruptive dressing room. Ajax was a team full of potential players expecting moves to bigger clubs. United is a club where the very best may try a move to Barca or RM if dissatisfied. The rest of these potential players who fail know they have achieved the best they could by playing at united and have reached the end of line. To keep both sets happy and rebuild will be a challenge. Also players form groups, usually on linguistic and regional basis. Managing such groups is a challenge. Having too many dutch players may not go down well and create disharmony.

 

[bcubed]

Ultimately I think most probably the Glazers will be the real winners

 

[Isotope]

ETH vs The Players - who wins?
The players, of course!

We know for a fact that this set of players have thrown multiple managers under the bus and got the manager fired.
I'd have to be a complete imbecile to believe that the manager would win in a 'Manager vs Players' battle, given what has happened over the last 9 years.
The club side with the players, because the players are assets. In a business, you protect your assets. This is also the reason why we tend to renew contracts of players who are not good enough to play. The only time a player leaves or does not renew his contract is when that player himself makes the decision not to continue with MUFC. Pogba and Lingard are the best examples of this. If P and L wanted to renew their contracts, the club would be ecstatic.

Yeh. It's amusing when people saying that "EtH won't accept this and that". It doesn't matter what he wants, if he doesn't have the power/authority to do much to players. These players know. The like of Martial has been lazing around for fecking years, and yet he's still here and probably back as our main striker. Please do explain this insanity.

Unless the Club approach has changed.

EDIT: That's why i support the manager to buy as many as possible (and players he knows), to lessen the power of these 'legacy' players on him.

 

[Catt]

Ultimately I think most probably the Glazers will be the real winners

How so?

 

[copen1945]

His forceful personality is endearing. Hopefully, results will follow.

 

[bcubed]

How so?

Well irrespective of manager, players, staff, fans and even baby’s throwing shit out of their cribs - the Glazers will keep raping and pillaging the club on a bi annual basis.