We are no more the only top dogs in England wherein we could pluck the best of Britain like Rio, Rooney etc without much trouble .There is more competition for the top talents else we could have had Harry Kane in the bag a long time ago. That's no more the case. So he has to rely on the best he can get his hands on mostly foreign talent.
Ten Hag's cultural re-reset
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
correct me if I'm wrong but this cultural reset talk was mostly media/fan driven right?
I don't actually recall Ole ever saying that, nor Carrick/Phelan etc.. and for all the talk of buying British he went out and bought loads of foreigners too
in any case, it's horse-shit.. every new manager brings their own particular way of doing things, they're own culture - if you will
I don't actually recall Ole ever saying that, nor Carrick/Phelan etc.. and for all the talk of buying British he went out and bought loads of foreigners too
in any case, it's horse-shit.. every new manager brings their own particular way of doing things, they're own culture - if you will
It has nothing to do with nationality, more about how good you are as a player. The likes of Shaw, Maguire, McTominay and Rashford haven’t been good enough for over 12 months.
I think Ole spoke about it but he meant about working hard and playing as a team. Not building brexit 11. That was media work.
We signed Maguire, AWB and then tried to sign Eriksen, Dybala in that window. Bruno was also heavily linked and finally completed the move in Jan. We also signed Ighalo on loan and tried to sign Josh King in Jan.
You can’t win anything with Brits.
The anglophobes are out again
Maguire, AWB, Dybala, Josh King are all not particularly hard workers, he also tried to sign Grealish and Longstaff.
Almost all the players he bought or tried to buy in the 2019 window/2020 winter have fallen off cliff in the past 3 years. It shows Ole has zero instinct on judging players' development and maintainence
Ole's recruitment is awful, and I remember that a Cardiff fan had warned about that when we turned Ole to permanent in 2019. Most of Ole's buys for Cardiff were trash.
I think his decisions have been spot on. Even if he lost two first games.
A conspiracist sees it as ETH have a chance for British core - make it or break it. Maguire and Shaw broke it. Rashford was sulking. So he changed the defence and fixed a lot of problems. So, Shaw and Maguire are out now. Rashford is only playing because Martial is injured/lacking form and Antony was a deadline deal. So, he will be replaced as well, unless he shows what ETH wants to see.
About AWB, well the decision with him was made in pre-season when ETH saw that he just isn't good enough. But we didn't sell him, keeping him as a Dalot backup instead.
About the core itself, I think Ole meant to have a one nation core would have an enchanced performance due to lack of language barrier and its potential miscommunications, also as they play for national team together (except AWB) then they'll have the maximum amount of games to gel. But he forgot that the most important thing is to be suitable for the gameplan (which Maguire and AWB definitely are not, still not certain on Shaw) and having the proper United mentality, which none of them seem to have.
A conspiracist sees it as ETH have a chance for British core - make it or break it. Maguire and Shaw broke it. Rashford was sulking. So he changed the defence and fixed a lot of problems. So, Shaw and Maguire are out now. Rashford is only playing because Martial is injured/lacking form and Antony was a deadline deal. So, he will be replaced as well, unless he shows what ETH wants to see.
About AWB, well the decision with him was made in pre-season when ETH saw that he just isn't good enough. But we didn't sell him, keeping him as a Dalot backup instead.
About the core itself, I think Ole meant to have a one nation core would have an enchanced performance due to lack of language barrier and its potential miscommunications, also as they play for national team together (except AWB) then they'll have the maximum amount of games to gel. But he forgot that the most important thing is to be suitable for the gameplan (which Maguire and AWB definitely are not, still not certain on Shaw) and having the proper United mentality, which none of them seem to have.
Grealish would have done well for us, he's at the wrong team.
I think it’s merely due to the fact that prices for English players are ridiculous. I think ETH would happily have players like Rice, Maddison, Grealish etc but they’d cost twice the amount you would pay for a similar play abroad.
All this has nothing to do with the point in discussion.
Ole spoke about working hard and play as a team but what he bought or attempted to buy point to the contrary?
Yes, which has nothing to do with Brexit fc which most want to believe.
I think that the British FC came cause in his first transfer window he signed 3 British players in Maguire, AWB and James for 150m pounds, and we were quite heavily linked with Longstaff for 50m. There was also talk of him wanting a strong British core. To be fair, 150m for those three players is some of the worst business ever done in football.
In other windows we mostly targeted players from foreign leagues, signing Bruno, van der Beek, Telles, Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho, from which only the later is British.
British core or not, Ole’s cultural reset is such horseshit. 400m+ spent to leave us in a worse position on the table than when he took over, and with only 3 players signed from him who seem to have a future with us. I hope we never talk about the cultural reset again, for most part it is just an intangible when there is lack of real success.
I think it was done on purpose mainly because ETH isnt familliar with the British transfer alternatives. We've stuck with players he's worked with, played against and wanted to sign for Ajax but couldnt (Malacia)
My expectation is that ETH thinks he can teach these former starters how to play his way, but the players we've bought already do it so they're straight in for now.
My expectation is that ETH thinks he can teach these former starters how to play his way, but the players we've bought already do it so they're straight in for now.
We weren't linked with Longstaff for 50 million, it was reported he was available for less than 20 million and then it was reported that Newcastle asking price is around 50 million and the links were dead quickly. It was looked as opportunistic signing for cheap price but it wasn't the case.
We were linked with Bruno much more than Longstaff, Eriksen also confirmed ManUtd tried to sign him in that summer and then we tried to sign Dybala. We signed British players and also tried to sign other players. So brexit fc is just nonsense.
Yeah cultural reset is bs, only thing that matters is winning and that will build the culture. Not the talk, it's a massive failure since SAF retired, we just made it worse. All the managers just talked the talk but achieved nothing, either through their own incompetence or their ability to sign shit players/players who doesn't suit their style of play.
Talented players with no ego. Or something like that. It was quite obvious they don’t exist. Which is why our squad turned out so soft.
Thankfully Ralf highlighted our lack of ruthless aggression which we seem to be fixing now.
Bring on the era of egotistical b8stards.
Thankfully Ralf highlighted our lack of ruthless aggression which we seem to be fixing now.
Bring on the era of egotistical b8stards.
If true there was nothing wrong with that goal but reports are one thing and actions are another. He actually did sign more foreigners than British players so the British core thing was overstated.
Only British care about Man Utd having British players on the team. Most of the fan base is global and we don't give a feck about it.
For all I care we could have an entire squad without a single British player. Would choose quality over nationality 100% of the time.
For all I care we could have an entire squad without a single British player. Would choose quality over nationality 100% of the time.
The anti British thing is getting a bit tiresome. There are probably 40+ British players who'd improve our squad, and fit in with ETH's culture/style.
So what?Do you think @Trequarista10 is british
Not sure why all the talk about nationalities in here. All large corporations have their own culture for instance and it doesn't have to be related to nationality, usually it is not.
The cultural reset we are seeing here is about consequences and accountability - something that was sorely lacking under Ole who lacked the balls to make the big calls. ETH did it two games in. From what I am seeing so far, you have to earn your place in the team, if you don't perform you are out and that's the way it should be.
The cultural reset we are seeing here is about consequences and accountability - something that was sorely lacking under Ole who lacked the balls to make the big calls. ETH did it two games in. From what I am seeing so far, you have to earn your place in the team, if you don't perform you are out and that's the way it should be.
First thing he had to do is make us harder to beat. Gary Neville’s exact words were we’re the easiest team to play in the league. Teams were coming to old Trafford and rubbing their hands together. He’s done that, he’s building from the back, which needed to happen, we were conceding way too many goals. Now we got to work on going forward and score more goals. 1-0 wins aren’t sustainable as we learnt previously.
The first two games maybe needed to happen.. gave him a massive reality check which resulted in maguire and Ronaldo being dropped.
So far so good from ETH though, can’t really complain. Tomorrow is his first real test.
The first two games maybe needed to happen.. gave him a massive reality check which resulted in maguire and Ronaldo being dropped.
So far so good from ETH though, can’t really complain. Tomorrow is his first real test.
A football club is a part of the local community so it's important that a connection with that community is maintained.
It has to do with money. British players are more expensive.
Our academy is filled with foreign players as well. I’d be in favour of developing more local talent. The economics are against that.
Our academy is filled with foreign players as well. I’d be in favour of developing more local talent. The economics are against that.
That be an argument for having Mancunians, but since it's a British argument I see no sense in it.
A kid from the academy born in France has way more connection with the mancunian community than a British player born in London for example.
Nationality has nothing to do with it, like I said Id choose quality over nationality every single time.
Watch how connected Vidic was and how Maguire is.
Fair point. But the academy should be weighted to developing local talent and getting them in to the first team. It's part of our identity and should never change, even if it leaves us disadvantaged.
Don't disagree with this but real life not as black and white. Just look at pep and his homegrown quota.
Sorry but that’s a ridiculous way of looking at things, we’ve got a tradition of having academy players in the team but nothing to do their nationality. We want the best team regardless of where they come from. If Sancho is good enough to be in the starting 11 then so be it but there’s no way he’ll be picked because he’s English or I hope not!
Why do you think football clubs were formed in the first place?If Greenwood wasn’t so stupid then this wouldn’t be much of a cultural reset.
2 of our attackers would be English.
2 of our attackers would be English.
Greenwood and Maguire reset themselves. Former being a total twat as a person and latter just being terrible at playing football.
This is a talent reset only. Ten Hag would probably love some English / British footballers that can play.
This is a talent reset only. Ten Hag would probably love some English / British footballers that can play.
There is nothing wrong in building the team around a British core. I am all for it. All of our successful teams in the past had that. Not only us, if you see the continental big clubs who had huge success, most of them consisted heavily of national team players. The likes of Bayern, Barca 2009-12, Juventus, Milan etc had their spine built around their nationalities. I truly believe it brings that something extra to your team as a whole. The loyalty, the pride, the grit, the culture, the mentality all these factors just add a bit more to your identity as a club.
Problem is you have to have the right players to do that. Talent and right mentality should always be the first and foremost qualities in chosing a player to build a core. With Ole, his intention was right but his execution was wrong. Signing players like AWB, Maguire was wrong in both counts combined with players like Shaw and Mctominay who also lack either in mentality or in terms of talent and then you have players like Greenwood with the wrong personality and you have a team with a soft core/bad attitude which never gonna take you anywhere.
Problem is you have to have the right players to do that. Talent and right mentality should always be the first and foremost qualities in chosing a player to build a core. With Ole, his intention was right but his execution was wrong. Signing players like AWB, Maguire was wrong in both counts combined with players like Shaw and Mctominay who also lack either in mentality or in terms of talent and then you have players like Greenwood with the wrong personality and you have a team with a soft core/bad attitude which never gonna take you anywhere.
There was express talk by Ole and others at the club about recruiting the right characters (mistakes were made at board level but it was “an actual thing” for a while). I think the description of a “cultural reset” was a media creation.
Good managers seem to create an environment (way of working) that gets the most out of their players. I would think that players who don’t fit the environment are first to be shipped out.
ETH talks about his “process” which, I think, is just another way of describing it.
Rashford will play more than Sancho. McTominay will also play a lot.
The academy should be weighted to develop talent, doesnt matter if its local or not. Messi is from Argentina not Spain, do you think Barca gave a shit about that? I think weighting nationality it's absurd in such a globalized world.
I want us to have the best player, doesn't matter if they're British, Spanish, Japanese, or Brazilians.
What about it? Does he get extra praise because they're British? Developing British players hold any extra value against developing foreign players?
Maybe we should relocate to Kent as it'd be better for attracting the French Kids.