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Terry warns Pogba & Co they must fight to succeed under Mourinho – just like he did
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Someone tell Pogba.
To be fair, the players must fight to succeed under any manager or coach.
He's 100% spot on. We absolutely lack character.
Just stop with the cliches about 'fight' and 'effort' already. We certainly don't lack any of those, the problem is more about quality, both of players and manager.
These aren't cliches. We have too many players who do not have the proper mentality. You may underestimate how important it is, even if it's obvious.
Was that why we lost the Fa Cup final and 19 point behind in the league? Mentality?
I’m getting fed up with people questioning Jose’s pedigree as a coach. There’s a case to be made that he doesn’t suit us at this tsome, but anything beyond that is stupid.
No, those are absolutely the usual cliches that are spouted by people who don't even follow the team on a weekly basis, and some people just lap it up. Simply working hard is not enough to gloss over the lack of quality in our squad and tactics. Not to mention, we have players who have won titles in their career as well, and won it because those teams had quality, not because is simply effort.
We do not lack effort, the players are trying, they just are not comparable to some of the top teams around.
You can get fed up all you want, but it is a valid criticism. If he improves, then fair enough, but so far he has not been good enough. Great managers can also eventually decline as time passes, there are plenty of cases like that.
No it isn't valid criticism. The only way we improve on last year domestically is if we win the league. That's with a squad you just admitted lacks quality. We would need to finish above a record breaking team, thats managed by a world class manager that has outspent us on a squad that was already comfortably better than ours. What you've just said there entirely lacks logic, and yet seems to be the basis of the vast majority of Jose's critics.
Isn't though? if the team had a proper mentality we wouldn't underestimate newly promoted sides and lose to all three. Specially lose to teams on the lower end of the table because we played like it was already won before the match even started.
No. It certainly was the case why we dropped points against weaker sides. But we didn't win the league because we are not near City in terms of quality. I'm not maintaining we do not lack quality (and balance) just that what Terry said is absolutely correct. We've got some mentally weak players and we do not have leaders. It's not an either or, quality and character.
Nobody is demanding that we win the PL every season. The criticism is over the style of football in general and tactics. We've spent almost 400 million in the last 2/3 season and still the manager doesn't know who the best 11 is and we lack identity on the pitch although there have been signs recently that things are improving slowly. Still It's difficult to know what to expect.
fecking Daily Mail shite again! feck John Terry and his arsehole opinion. We finished second in the league last year. Its all the teams below us that have bad attitudes and a lack of quality!
Ooof.
These young flashy players are not going to work well with Jose
And that's an infinitely different argument to be had. You may not enjoy his style of football, but that doesn't mean he lacks quality as a manager. Stop conflating the two points.
Uh... Isn't Mourinho dropping Terry what eventually snowballed into player mutiny at Chelsea and their disastrous season?
Someone confirm. Wouldn't be surprised at the hypocrisy and irony. Because Pogba getting dropped was also where this relationship soured
Wrong, it is a valid criticism. Winning the league is not the only way to improve. Improving the style of play, the cohesion in the team and getting more points are all ways we can improve even if we don't win the league. Last season no one expected us to win the league, but a lot did expect a few more points, and more of a consistent style of football, and success in the cup competitions at least. Yes, we do lack some quality in comparison to City, but I do expect improvements, and I don't consider as winning the league is the only thing that can be considered as improvement.
Also, money spent is not a guarantee of success, even if City spent more money, it does not mean we can't compete with them if smarter choices are made. Our squad was not as inferior to City's as people like to pretend, we finished level on points before Pep and Jose took over both teams. Its just one manager has made signings that have fit in the team, which have worked more and also improved the other players in the squad, even ones who were average, with more consistent style of play that was worked on from the start. Spurs have spent a lot less money and have performed better than us until last season, money is not the end all be all about football. Let's not pretend that we can't do better than we have, there is room for improvement many areas, even without apunking more money.
We could play the most enterprising, exotic football ever grace the football pitch, but it means jack shit if it doesn't cultivate silverware.
Again, you're conflating your preferences with actual quantifiable truths. It's like arguing Mayweather isn't one of the greatest boxers ever to grace the sport because he wasn't entertaining enough. Despite your preferences, winning and league position is a definitive example of a quality manager. As much as you disliked our performances last season, we were the 2nd best team in the league. Much like Mayweather didn't lack quality because he didn't entertain like Naseem Hamed.
That's great. No one said it guarantees success, but you'll be a fool if you didn't think it was a significant, and in many cases, defining factor when it comes to who wins the league. There's a pretty obvious pattern for you to follow. We aren't just talking about a standard team here. You're expecting Jose to compete with an inferior squad, less money to invest, an inferior youth academy etc. with a team that just broke dozens of records in winning the league. The most points accumulated without winning the league was 89 in 2011/12. That would still be ELEVEN points behind what City acheived last season.
Of course it was inferior. How can you pretend otherwise? You only have to look at the players still around in the last few years from each side. And the fact you used points acheived in the league as justification of this after everything you've said so far in this thread is just a massive dollop of hypocrisy.
And last season Spurs didn't perform better than us, care to explain why? Because you've already questioned the credentials of the manager, and the quality of our squad, and said money doesn't define how successful a team is, so I'll like you to pinpoint the exact reason why.
Ultimately, you're conflating the entertainment value you get from our performances with the quality of our manager. To question Jose's ability as a manager now is ridiculous.
If you expect a few more than 81 points, you pretty much do expect a team to win the league or at least have a massive chance of it because what City did last season was unprecedented.
That was 81 points while dicking around and heavily rotating in the last 3 league games ahead of the cup final and dropping 5 points in the process too.
I mostly agree with this but, I would say we lack cohesion not quality.
Fantastic post. Knocked that narrative out of the park.
We won nothing last season, while playing shit. If Jose can't get us to win, nor play some entertaining football, or atleast cohesive football, why exactly is he here ?? We can absolutely criticize him.
What are you talking about ?? Putting aside the fact that there is nothing in common between football and boxing, your comparison falls flat because Jose is neither winning like Mayweather, nor is he entertaining like Naseem Hamed.
Money spent is not the most significant factor, the quality of the squad is, which can be done on the cheap as well if smart signings are made. We have an inferior squad, but we have money, and have invested a significant amount that we should be comfortably better than all the other teams in the league, but we are not. That shows that money is not everything in football. No one is expecting City to be beaten after getting 100 points last season, but that was a one off achievement, unlikely to be repeated. No one is seriously considering us as favourites for the title either. That being said, we can still improve ourselves from last season and get more points and be more cohesive as a team, and that does not have any relation to City, their squad, money, academy etc.
It was inferior, but not by much. Their signings just worked out more, and were also targeted at improving their weakpoints. There is no hypocrisy here, I don't think our squad is good enough to beat 100 points, but I do think we can improve on 81 points.
The question is how can you pretend and talk about not questioning Jose and his tactics, when he has shown nothing to deserve such blind faith while his time here. We were knocked out by Sevilla in the CL, knocked out by Bristol City in the league cup, and lost the FA cup final to a Chelsea team that were in disarray, and none of these teams are City or have anything to do with them.
Because we were better than them last season. Even then, after spending far more money that them, we only finished four points ahead of them though, which shows that it's not all about money.
There is nothing ridiculous about questioning the ability of the manager when he can't even get the best out of his squad, and the team plays without cohesion even after two seasons in charge. I am not conflating the entertainment value of our performances with the quality of the the manager. I am judging him by the teams performances itself, which have been poor as a team relative to the talent the squad has, not just unentertaining.
Forgive me if I don't put him on a pedestal where questioning him is blasphemous, like you do. He has been a disappointment so far, and there is a very valid reason to question Jose's ability, acting like a manager is infallible or unquestionable is the truly ridiculous thing.
And that's still got feck all to do with the quality of the manager. This has been covered, in length, throughout the remainder of my post. Stop pretending how enjoyable YOU find our football is a defining factor on the quality of the manager. No matter how often you prattle on about it, it's not going to make it true.
It's called an analogy, and is a pretty simple one by all accounts. I can understandwhy you don't want to tackle it though.
I'm happy for you to point out all these teams that's won the PL with cheap signings in the last couple of decades. I'll start you off and you can tell me all the others successful teams put together with cheap signings.
Leicester
...
...
Who says we can't improve?! Well you. You've decoded, after 4 games of the season, that it's not going to happen. Well done. This of course, is entirely ignorant that we had improved season on season since Jose arrived.
Nothing to show faith? He's one of the most successful managers ever in the modern game. And you come out and say he doesn't have any quality about him. It's just mental.
No he hasn't got the best out of this squad yet. He's got significantly more out of it than we saw before his arrival though. Talk about spoiled fans; speaking of 2 seasons as if it's some huge length of time.
Oh so now you admit it was inferior. Just one post ago you were calling it a myth.
And City were knocked out by Wigan. It happens. There's a helluva difference between thinking a manager had got it wrong in a game(s) and saying a manager has no quality. I'm quite happy to say Jose has got it wrong, I've said as much on this forum, you don't seem to be able to find a point between dogshit and perfection however.
You keep banging on about improving as if I've said we can't step up any further. So far we've improved upon every season. Can we improve on 81 points? Well obviously. Should we expect Jose should have this side running at maximum after 2 seasons following the shitshow we had before it? No chance. Try to be reasonable and not let your blind hatred get in the way of a bit of common sense.
Oh here we go, I'm putting him on a pedestal ffs. Try reading what's written before going into badshit crazy Jose hatred mode.
I'll go back to my original point. If you want him gone because his football bores you. Fine. Say that. But dont try to make out everything else about him is shit to justify your opinion. I'll repeat. No matter how much you try to connect the entertainment level of football to the quality of a manager, it ain't gonna be true.
Jose has taken over our club at it's worst point in almost 3 decades. He's improved upon every season he's been here, and managed to get us finishing in a respectable position and won trophies along the way. This, from a manager who has an almost peerless resume in the modern era. Unless he stops improving on what we have, the criticism and pretense the likes of you posters hold against him are always going to be way overboard.
To say Jose lacks quality as a manager is, frankly, pathetic.
It goes without saying.
yass!Players were made of stronger stuff back then. Even Arsenal players were made of stronger stuff.
Back then? Terry is still playing now.
Not for Chelsea under Jose Mourinho he isn’t.
Spot on from Terry.
When will our fans stop treating our players like toddlers who need someone to babysit them ? We have never been like that before. This is a complete new mentality for United for me.
When will our fans stop treating our players like toddlers who need someone to babysit them ? We have never been like that before. This is a complete new mentality for United for me.
In an exclusive interview with the Daily Mail’s head of sport Lee Clayton, Terry revealed how Mourinho ‘embarrassed’ him during a training session at Chelsea in the summer of 2005 after winning ....
So it happened in Jose's first stint at Chelsea, then Terry "grew up" and became King of Stamford Bridge by the time Jose returned..
We have one of the all time great managers, so your post has very little credibility
Imagine a world where the manager and players are allowed to get on with their jobs without every fecker having an opinion, whether about the manager or players.
One of the downsides of being the biggest club in the world I guess but sick of seeing/reading/hearing this sort of nonsense and drama about the club.
Let’s just crack on, Work hard and the rest will come.
One of the downsides of being the biggest club in the world I guess but sick of seeing/reading/hearing this sort of nonsense and drama about the club.
Let’s just crack on, Work hard and the rest will come.
He forgot how to manage after the last time he won the league. Dinosaur, etc. He's not a REAL manager like Poch.
So a manager who’s won everything possible lacks quality? Go figure that one!
A manager being successful in the past doesn't make them immune to criticism, and doesn't mean they'll continue being successful for as long as they're in the game. Otherwise Wenger wouldn't have gone from manager of the invincible to a walking meme in his later years. Certainly Mourinho's record in his early years as a manager are far better than his recent ones.
At this point, a Wenger comparison is ridiculous.