The “Ole In” Brigade

[Leftback99]

Needed additions? He spent £300m, and that was before the market went crazy!

The revisionism around LvG needs to stop. He was a funny guy, he used to be a good manager, but he was absolutely awful during his tenure here apart from the FA cup win.

He's the main reason we're in this mess. £300m blown when players were significantly cheaper. The guy was the Dutch team manager but thought Rojo was a better purchase than Van Dijk.

 

[AshRK]

Ole is the worst manager in the EPL.
There was a thread about this (ie. who is worse than Ole) and the only name which came up was Steve Bruce. A week later, S.Bruce's Newcastle played and beat us!
I cannot believe that anybody in their right minds, who isn't a rival supporter wants Ole to stay. Utterly bizarre.
Try and find a supporter of rival club, to admit that they'd like Ole to replace the manager of the club that they support. You won't find anybody.

Not a Ole fan and I understand he is not the most popular here but how do one come to such a conclusion. To say he is not good enough manage Manchester United is understandable and even logical but to say he is the worst manager in PL is unfair on him considering we could be in much worse place than now if was absolutely crap. I don't think top clubs would hire him but that won't mean he is the worst manager around.

Like I said let us not go overboard with devaluing Ole the manager. For me Moyes was the worst manager to manage us and that will not change if Ole is to be sacked now.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Based on previous experiences with other managers, I’d probably agree that OGS is probably the worst in the league. At best he’d be in the bottom 3.

Arteta and Lampard are novices but Lampard got Derby to a play off final in his first season of management and Arteta has been part of Guardiolas City team.

And based on actual performances you can say the same too. We play like how a minnow might do against a big team by doing sucker punch counterattacks. You could argue that his winning run at the start was still running on Jose tactics but now that he’s got his ideas in over time (which is what people who want to stay say he should be allowed to get), we’ve actually got worse.

Lets not forget OGS has been a manager for a decade now.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

yeah but that's like saying it's better to get shit on by a bird than a dog.

Everything was worse in our second season under LvG. We got less points, we were worse in Europe, we scored less goals, we played worse football, he made worse signings, and ultimately he was dead in the water by Christmas time and never looked like turning it around. It would've been madness to give a manager who had performed worse in every aspect in his second season another season.

Saying that we'd be better now if he was still in charge makes no sense when you take all that into account, seeing as all we did under him is get worse as he progressed.

That’s how you view it though. The team for me was better in the 2nd season and that’s when you could really see what he was trying to implement. some people only see what’s 2 Cm in front of their nose and others see a much broader picture.
LVG kept going on an on about how we had to be much faster and the rhythm needed to improve but for some reason the only thing that registers with United fans is “ LVG wanted slow boring football” absolute nonsense.

Its the same as what is happening now, Ole is trying to do something and not all the parts are there but he is doing more than Jose ever did for United. Problem is some people don’t see the more intricate details which explains a lot of the nonsense that gets written in the performance thread.

 

[JG3001]

There is some truth in that but we watched him last night watch Luke Shaw move like someone attempting to push a beer keg up a steep hill and never think that a change was necessary.
He needs to have the balls to come out and say publicly that we need serious reinforcements now or we are heading for 8th place. His job depends on it.

Don’t necessarily disagree but it’s was that kind of board criticism that got Mou fired. Rightly or wrongly.

They want a yes man to keep things quiet and cheery.

i think it’s true what others say, until the owners change hands, I think we’re going to continue in the wilderness hoping for a 4th place finish at best.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

That’s how you view it though. The team for me was better in the 2nd season and that’s when you could really see what he was trying to implement. some people only see what’s 2 Cm in front of their nose and others see a much broader picture.
LVG kept going on an on about how we had to be much faster and the rhythm needed to improve but for some reason the only thing that registers with United fans is “ LVG wanted slow boring football” absolute nonsense.

Its the same as what is happening now, Ole is trying to do something and not all the parts are there but he is doing more than Jose ever did for United. Problem is some people don’t see the more intricate details which explains a lot of the nonsense that gets written in the performance thread.

It was not a great plan around. It improved near the end with Rashford giving us some attacking form. Although that was not part of the plan. We started barely creating chances for most of the season. Had some lucky wins with 1-0 over Liverpool, Spurs etc when they had more chances, but we fluked the wins. I think there was one half against Southampton we played some nice stuff, but that was pretty much it up to the Midjylland game. Just after Martial came we had a few good games. Although that was before he had been managed into worse form by LVGs tactical instructions.

 

[Foxbatt]

yeah but that's like saying it's better to get shit on by a bird than a dog.

Everything was worse in our second season under LvG. We got less points, we were worse in Europe, we scored less goals, we played worse football, he made worse signings, and ultimately he was dead in the water by Christmas time and never looked like turning it around. It would've been madness to give a manager who had performed worse in every aspect in his second season another season.

Saying that we'd be better now if he was still in charge makes no sense when you take all that into account, seeing as all we did under him is get worse as he progressed.

And then he won the FA Cup. You really think we are playing better football now than under LVG? He was boring as hell in the latter part but his teams do not rolled over like the way we are getting now. We actually lost the CL spot due to goal difference. One win would have given us the CL spot. Ole is no where close to it still. He has no track record of winning anything big. Just because he sold Fellaini and Lukaku does not mean he is competent enough to coach a big club.

 

[Massive Spanner]

And then he won the FA Cup. You really think we are playing better football now than under LVG? He was boring as hell in the latter part but his teams do not rolled over like the way we are getting now. We actually lost the CL spot due to goal difference. One win would have given us the CL spot. Ole is no where close to it still. He has no track record of winning anything big. Just because he sold Fellaini and Lukaku does not mean he is competent enough to coach a big club.

No and I never said that, feel free to actually read my posts.

That’s how you view it though. The team for me was better in the 2nd season and that’s when you could really see what he was trying to implement. some people only see what’s 2 Cm in front of their nose and others see a much broader picture.
LVG kept going on an on about how we had to be much faster and the rhythm needed to improve but for some reason the only thing that registers with United fans is “ LVG wanted slow boring football” absolute nonsense.

Its the same as what is happening now, Ole is trying to do something and not all the parts are there but he is doing more than Jose ever did for United. Problem is some people don’t see the more intricate details which explains a lot of the nonsense that gets written in the performance thread.

It's not really, though. I don't see how you can argue that finishing 5th with less points and less goals means the team is better than when they finished 4th. Your hypothetical scenarios where he would somehow be doing better here despite all evidence to the contrary are irrelevant and not worth discussing.

 

[NewGlory]

Man I read my post again and saw no where where I wrote anything about Sir Alex Ferguson. Did your rage blinkers kick in?

In your post, which I responded to, you were wholeheartedly agreeing to a poster who said

That's just how you see football. Don't project that as fact. I enjoyed LVG's football out of all our recent managers including SAF's last years.

Was it a stretch to assume that you were agreeing to the whole of what they said, including the LvG over SAF piece?

 

[NewGlory]

And then he won the FA Cup. You really think we are playing better football now than under LVG? He was boring as hell in the latter part but his teams do not rolled over like the way we are getting now. We actually lost the CL spot due to goal difference. One win would have given us the CL spot. Ole is no where close to it still. He has no track record of winning anything big. Just because he sold Fellaini and Lukaku does not mean he is competent enough to coach a big club.

Sorry to break it to you, but nobody gives a rat's ass for FA cup, in 21st century, other than old-timers who are sentimental about it. It is for the teams from lower leagues and for the teams that are unable to win anything else.

As for football under LvG - yes we are playing MUCH better football now. The last game notwithstanding, every single United game this season was very intense. LvG's football was lethargic and sleep-inducing. It was the most frustrating and boring crap I have ever seen United be part of. And it was not going anywhere even if you gave him 10 years. Not to mention that the guy was retiring next year, so he would have abandoned us anyway. Not sacking LvG would have been criminal, it was so obvious. If anything they gave him way too much time due to his past glory and brilliant reputation.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'd disagree.
Even if you employed Pep or Klopp, this squad of players are not going to suddenly buck the trend of the past few years and become fantastic players, they simply are not.
What I have liked about Solskjaer so far, is that he has shipped off Fellaini, Valencia, Lukaku, Darmian etc....players that either didn't want to be here or were not going to take the club forward.
I am convinced that Rojo, Matic & Jones will be shown the door soon as is feasible too, which is great news in mu opinion.
But my worry is, bringing in a new manager, he is going to want to reassess the squad himself, and these bloody awful players get yet another reprieve.

Well they'd do a better job by virtue of being miles better as managers. The thing you've liked about Ole is that he's shipped off players. That says everything about his lack of ability and performance.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

No and I never said that, feel free to actually read my posts.


It's not really, though. I don't see how you can argue that finishing 5th with less points and less goals means the team is better than when they finished 4th. Your hypothetical scenarios where he would somehow be doing better here despite all evidence to the contrary are irrelevant and not worth discussing.

It’s simple if a coach was to go in and look at it they would spot the patterns and things they were trying to execute which was a higher standard of play. They were trying to do things you see all the top teams doing now. Anyone could see it still had deficiencies and needed certain elements but there was something there to work with.

You seem stuck in this idea that it’s all about the points. Anyone with half a brain saw what Liverpool are doing now coming back in 2016 as they were working on the things they do now as well as adding elements to the team to perform what Jürgen wanted. Same with City they season before they went on to smash records, you could see it coming. It’s the same way in that people could see Fred had something and now he is proving he might actually be a good player to a lot of the cafs disappointment.

like I said what we were doing in terms of building something and what the guys were doing on the pitch was a higher standard of football than what we’ve seen from Moyes, Jose and now Ole.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It’s simple if a coach was to go in and look at it they would spot the patterns and things they were trying to execute which was a higher standard of play. They were trying to do things you see all the top teams doing now. Anyone could see it still had deficiencies and needed certain elements but there was something there to work with.

You seem stuck in this idea that it’s all about the points. Anyone with half a brain saw what Liverpool are doing now coming back in 2016 as they were working on the things they do now as well as adding elements to the team to perform what Jürgen wanted. Same with City they season before they went on to smash records, you could see it coming. It’s the same way in that people could see Fred had something and now he is proving he might actually be a good player to a lot of the cafs disappointment.

like I said what we were doing in terms of building something and what the guys were doing on the pitch was a higher standard of football than what we’ve seen from Moyes, Jose and now Ole.

No I'm not, I've mentioned plenty other reasons besides points, but league position is very important.

it's funny that you use Liverpool under Klopp as an example when they've improved their results, performances, league position etc. every year under him, the exact opposite of lvG

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well, I don’t have to wonder more if it is about football at all or if you just don’t like Solskjaer. When you put lot of those managers infront of Solskjaer it is not about football. Thank you for proving my point couple of days ago.

@90 + 5min what has Solkjaer done to be put above these guys? Many of whom have proven so much more in English football?

Honestly, tell me what has Ole done better than say Eddie Howe or Steve Bruce? Or David Moyes for that matter? What has he done compared to Hodgson? or Chris Wilder?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And that large chunk of the fanbase will say they're just being realistic. There's this incredible doublethink with some fans at the moment in which they will roundly criticize the players at the club, gladly stating almost everyone at the club is a steaming pile of horse manure, and yet expect the manager to achieve with them.

Half of the youngest top 10 starting XI sides fielded in the Premier League so far this season are from United. The other teams to feature are Cheslea (twice), Arsenal, Bournemouth and Southampton. You'll notice these are some of the most inconsistent sides in the league so far. We also have a wafer thin squad that is reliant on Pogba to be our creative outlet, wortunately has been out since August. It's a risk that's backfired.

Now, clearly we should be doing better than we are doing, but to the point where we should sack him and bring in another who will just face the same issues we've had this year. Will a new manager come in and suddenly add depth to the squad while finding creativity from nowhere? Or will he do the same thing and look to add reinforcements in January? We've stripped the squad down to the bare bones and regardless of who we bring in, we are going to have to be patient while we rebuild and while the youth players develop a bit of consistency in their game. Someone other than Ole may well be better placed to do that, but a lot of the criticism pointed at him seems a little unfair to me.

I don't have that double think, I think our players have proven on many occasions this season that they are better than our standing in the table.

A new top forward thinking modern manager that has been targeted by the club would absolutely look to add reinforcements in January, and he'd know exactly what kind of players to target for his system. Would he "do the same thing"? No, because a top manager is much better at his job than Ole who's been so unremarkable in his career he's spent almost a decade in Norway.

Unless of course we disregard just how important a manager is to a football club despite the likes of Fergie and Klopp proving to us that it's absolutely EVERYTHING.

Now that said, I don't think we should fire Ole now after the past 6 weeks of acceptable enough form. I think we should've done it after Watford and are now in a position again where we must wait and see what happens during January, I think we'll regret it but I think it's only right.

 

[Foxbatt]

Sorry to break it to you, but nobody gives a rat's ass for FA cup, in 21st century, other than old-timers who are sentimental about it. It is for the teams from lower leagues and for the teams that are unable to win anything else.

As for football under LvG - yes we are playing MUCH better football now. The last game notwithstanding, every single United game this season was very intense. LvG's football was lethargic and sleep-inducing. It was the most frustrating and boring crap I have ever seen United be part of. And it was not going anywhere even if you gave him 10 years. Not to mention that the guy was retiring next year, so he would have abandoned us anyway. Not sacking LvG would have been criminal, it was so obvious. If anything they gave him way too much time due to his past glory and brilliant reputation.

That FA Cup is what got us into Europe and won the EL which got us into the CL. Tell that to the players at United who won the FA Cup. As for us winning the League under Ole then you are living in fantasy land. The FA Cup is the second most important trophy in England after the league. We did not get into the CL due to goal difference. Yes LVG was boring to hell but Ole is not boring to everyone else because we are so pathetic in defence and so open where we have kept a clean sheet probably for one game? The man has no clue and has no track record of winning anything. Give me LVG over Ole any day. He may be boring but at least he has implemented a style of play with his teams and yes he fecked up at United mostly because Woodward has no clue as to what he wanted from his manager.

 

[Lentwood]

And that large chunk of the fanbase will say they're just being realistic. There's this incredible doublethink with some fans at the moment in which they will roundly criticize the players at the club, gladly stating almost everyone at the club is a steaming pile of horse manure, and yet expect the manager to achieve with them.

Half of the youngest top 10 starting XI sides fielded in the Premier League so far this season are from United. The other teams to feature are Cheslea (twice), Arsenal, Bournemouth and Southampton. You'll notice these are some of the most inconsistent sides in the league so far. We also have a wafer thin squad that is reliant on Pogba to be our creative outlet, wortunately has been out since August. It's a risk that's backfired.

Now, clearly we should be doing better than we are doing, but to the point where we should sack him and bring in another who will just face the same issues we've had this year. Will a new manager come in and suddenly add depth to the squad while finding creativity from nowhere? Or will he do the same thing and look to add reinforcements in January? We've stripped the squad down to the bare bones and regardless of who we bring in, we are going to have to be patient while we rebuild and while the youth players develop a bit of consistency in their game. Someone other than Ole may well be better placed to do that, but a lot of the criticism pointed at him seems a little unfair to me.

This.

Fans screamed for a clear out, we’re getting a clear out. Under the current ownership (any ownership ran for-profit tbf) we were always going to have to sell before we could buy and Ole is doing the right thing by taking his time over his signings and not panic buying mediocre players or quick fixes

 

[NewGlory]

That FA Cup is what got us into Europe and won the EL which got us into the CL. Tell that to the players at United who won the FA Cup. As for us winning the League under Ole then you are living in fantasy land. The FA Cup is the second most important trophy in England after the league. We did not get into the CL due to goal difference. Yes LVG was boring to hell but Ole is not boring to everyone else because we are so pathetic in defence and so open where we have kept a clean sheet probably for one game? The man has no clue and has no track record of winning anything. Give me LVG over Ole any day. He may be boring but at least he has implemented a style of play with his teams and yes he fecked up at United mostly because Woodward has no clue as to what he wanted from his manager.

Listen, I get it - you hate Ole, and you have all the right to - rebuilds are rocky and when he loses nobody knows if that is a stepping stone to something or he just sucks. No way to tell really. Some of us choose to believe one way and some the other. And that is fine because neither side can be sure.

But please, don't tell me a boring, lethargic nonsense of LVG football was ok. It didnt even get us results and we had to fecking watch it. How is boring football ok? First and foremost I have to watch my team, not gonna just collect some stats, and if my team is unwatchable and I am falling asleep - what is a fecking point?

 

[Foxbatt]

Listen, I get it - you hate Ole, and you have all the right to - rebuilds are rocky and when he loses nobody knows if that is a stepping stone to something or he just sucks. No way to tell really. Some of us choose to believe one way and some the other. And that is fine because neither side can be sure.

But please, don't tell me a boring, lethargic nonsense of LVG football was ok. It didnt even get us results and we had to fecking watch it. How is boring football ok? First and foremost I have to watch my team, not gonna just collect some stats, and if my team is unwatchable and I am falling asleep - what is a fecking point?

Guess you are one of the new glory people who started supporting United after we started winning everything? Don't talk this as only your team. I have been a supporter even when we played in the old second division. You have no idea what this club has been through.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This.

Fans screamed for a clear out, we’re getting a clear out. Under the current ownership (any ownership ran for-profit tbf) we were always going to have to sell before we could buy and Ole is doing the right thing by taking his time over his signings and not panic buying mediocre players or quick fixes

Clearing out players whilst maintaining decent enough standards is to be lauded, doing it whilst dropping to shocking standards I’d at best call incredibly naive.

Judging on what we’ve seen so far I can absolutely see a future here where the likes of Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Smalling, Pogba are all gone which might sound great to some fans, and maybe all if they were replaced with De Ligt, Sancho and Havertz, but without a big managerial name and no star players, I can’t see anyone of them wanting to join us. More likely it’ll be the likes of Longstaff, Rice, & Greillsh and our transformation to AC Milan could be complete within just 2.5 years of Mourinho’s departure.

 

[Foxbatt]

Clearing out players whilst maintaining decent enough standards is to be lauded, doing it whilst dropping to shocking standards I’d at best call incredibly naive.

Judging on what we’ve seen so far I can absolutely see a future here where the likes of Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Smalling, Pogba are all gone which might sound great to some fans, and maybe all if they were replaced with De Ligt, Sancho and Havertz, but without a big managerial name and no star players, I can’t see anyone of them wanting to join us. More likely it’ll be the likes of Longstaff, Rice, & Greillsh and our transformation to AC Milan could be complete within just 2.5 years of Mourinho’s departure.

It is no point in being reasonable with some people. Yes players like Lukaku and others should have been sold but as you say there is no point if we sell them but do not buy any better players. Even under SAF there were top players who refused to come to United. Under a mediocre manager like Moyes there were players who were past it also refusing to come to United. Now under a novice like Ole, who honestly from the top ranks are going to come? Why should they when they can go to a club that will win the national league and also get a chance to win the CL unlike United who has no chance now under him.

 

[NewGlory]

Guess you are one of the new glory people who started supporting United after we started winning everything? Don't talk this as only your team. I have been a supporter even when we played in the old second division. You have no idea what this club has been through.

ok boomer. I wasn't born yet when United was playing in the old second division, so cant compete with you there, but you be you.

You can support the club any what way you would like, but the "not only your team" applies to you as well. You do realize that people from Manchester are less than 1% of club's fanbase? The reality is - people from all over the world have supported this club, even over their local clubs, for decades because they love football. And that means exciting football - not necessarily always winning, is not about losing, but has to be exciting! Nobody wants to watch a boring game - what is the point then? If you like the game then you hate boring games, and if you just like club but don't care for the game at all - that is not fandom, that's more like a religion

 

[Foxbatt]

ok boomer. I wasn't born yet when United was playing in the old second division, so cant compete with you there, but you be you.

You can support the club any what way you would like, but the "not only your team" applies to you as well. You do realize that people from Manchester are less than 1% of club's fanbase? The reality is - people from all over the world have supported this club, even over their local clubs, for decades because they love football. And that means exciting footbal - not necessarily always winning, not about losing, but has to be exciting. Nobody wants to watch a boring game - what is the point then? If you like the game the you hate boring games, and if you just like club but dont care for the game at all - that is not fandom, that's akin a religion

Now I get it. Manchester United is like a religion to some of us. We support the club through the highs and lows and not only through glory days. I support United not to entertain myself. I want United to win matches and trophies. No matter how boring it is and how bad we play. I want them to win.

 

[90 + 5min]

@90 + 5min what has Solkjaer done to be put above these guys? Many of whom have proven so much more in English football?

Honestly, tell me what has Ole done better than say Eddie Howe or Steve Bruce? Or David Moyes for that matter? What has he done compared to Hodgson? or Chris Wilder?

First and most he is infront of them in the table. Sure, we got a better team on paper and should be infront of those but we have been hit by injuries and have a thin squad. Still infront.

Second, they have been in Premier League longer so they have had time to show if they are good or bad. If I turn the question. What has Howe, Bruce, Moyes, Hodgson and Wilder done that is so great and not just being in the league? They don't even have more than 1-2 trophies together in top flight being in english football so long. Whats is being proven to you? To be a manager for teams placed in the relegation zone and near it?

Third, by your logic, every new manager that comes into league is worse then those who have been there couple of years. If Allegri comes he is worse by your logic. Right? Because, what has he done in english football?

 

[NewGlory]

Now I get it. Manchester United is like a religion to some of us. We support the club through the highs and lows and not only through glory days. I support United not to entertain myself. I want United to win matches and trophies. No matter how boring it is and how bad we play. I want them to win.

Ok. I never said I wasn't here to support through the lows. For what it's worth it has only been lows last 6 years so plenty of opportunity to jump the ship, if that was the point. But yea - I love the sport itself first and foremost and can't stand a boring game even if we win. I respect that you may see things differently.

If I may ask, are you from Manchester? Is United a local club you grew up with?

 

[MrEarl]

I don't know if many folks here are familiar with the very funny classic movie comedy The Producers. Somehow Manchester United's current predicament looks a bit like déjà vu. In The Producers several businessmen conspire to produce a big time stage musical comedy show. It is set up so that the producers stand to make a big pile of money if the show fails. The name of the set up for failure show is Springtime for Hitler. Naturally the show is a huge hit and the producers lose out big time. Very funny.

In the transfer market before the current season there was a lot of hoopla about how much money it's going to be invested to make this season a successful start to rebuilding the team. They did the same thing in The Producers. But it was all a smokescreen.

In the preseason Manchester United were linked with every big name transfer. Huge sums of money were bandied about. But in fact the net expenditure was only 65 million and with the necessary subtraction of the loss in value of Herrera conservatively estimated at 40 million, the net investment was a paltry 25 million. Not enough to keep up with the competition. There was no rebuilding. It was a smokescreen.

Further, last year during Ole's huge victory run, Herrera was injured and the wheels fell off his victory run. It was painfully clear there was no backup available for Herrera. So not replacing him and not adding to the central midfield/#10 in the preseason transfer market meant predictable failure. Ole started the season with only one proven Premier League CM. Can't win with that set up.

So what was Ole to do. Grow his own. McTominay was developed into an outstanding starter. Progress? Maybe, except the one proven Premier League CM, Pogba, gets injured and was out for 2.5 months and is now looking at an additional month out. Back to square one with one newly proven CM. What to do? More grow your own. Fred, a colossal flop, is rehabbed into a quality Premier League CM. Great! Except McT gets injured and he is now out for months bringing the team back to square one again with a single proven Premier League CM, Fred. And there is, just like last year, no cover.

With only one proven PL CM, the team's midfield is just about certain to be overrun by just about everyone. The only hope is that the team's owners and their manager will come to the rescue in the current transfer market. But wait. Wasn't that what they were supposed to do in the previous transfer market? We will certainly get all the hoopla just like last time but my money is on Springtime for Hitler all over again. I don't know how the owners are going to make money off of this failure. So is the failure designed just like The Producers is this just colossal incompetence?

 

[Leftback99]

I don't have that double think, I think our players have proven on many occasions this season that they are better than our standing in the table.

A new top forward thinking modern manager that has been targeted by the club would absolutely look to add reinforcements in January, and he'd know exactly what kind of players to target for his system. Would he "do the same thing"? No, because a top manager is much better at his job than Ole who's been so unremarkable in his career he's spent almost a decade in Norway.

Unless of course we disregard just how important a manager is to a football club despite the likes of Fergie and Klopp proving to us that it's absolutely EVERYTHING.

Now that said, I don't think we should fire Ole now after the past 6 weeks of acceptable enough form. I think we should've done it after Watford and are now in a position again where we must wait and see what happens during January, I think we'll regret it but I think it's only right.

Why is our team giving good performances in one off games proof that we should be in a better standing than 5th?

Wouldn't Wolves fans say the same after beating City twice? Watford beat us, Southampton just beat Spurs and Chelsea. What is so special about our squad?

 

[Foxbatt]

Ok. I never said I wasn't here to support through the lows. For what it's worth it has only been lows last 6 years so plenty of opportunity to jump the ship, if that was the point. But yea - I love the sport itself first and foremost and can't stand a boring game even if we win. I respect that you may see things differently.

If I may ask, are you from Manchester? Is United a local club you grew up with?

No I am not from Manchester but do go often to OT. Yes we have different outlooks on the club. I like Ole as a player very much but not as a manager at Manchester United only because now I do not see a way forward with him. I have seen LVG and his Ajax side too and maybe you have not seen them so do not understand how good a coach he was. One of the most attractive sides around during that period. Yes it was a lot more regimental but they can attack from anywhere. Danny Blind was a fantastic player who was their Libero and he is as good as the best during his time. He joins the attack during open play. Yes LVG can play very attractive football and I can tell you that Ajax side played more attractive football during that period and in winning the CL.
So that's why I was more tolerant of him than Ole or Jose. He was as heck as boring during his latter part at United I agree but he won us a trophy and I would say that he would not have been fired if Jose was not free. Woodward messed up everything as he usually does.

 

[NewGlory]

No I am not from Manchester but do go often to OT. Yes we have different outlooks on the club. I like Ole as a player very much but not as a manager at Manchester United only because now I do not see a way forward with him. I have seen LVG and his Ajax side too and maybe you have not seen them so do not understand how good a coach he was. One of the most attractive sides around during that period. Yes it was a lot more regimental but they can attack from anywhere. Danny Blind was a fantastic player who was their Libero and he is as good as the best during his time. He joins the attack during open play. Yes LVG can play very attractive football and I can tell you that Ajax side played more attractive football during that period and in winning the CL.
So that's why I was more tolerant of him than Ole or Jose. He was as heck as boring during his latter part at United I agree but he won us a trophy and I would say that he would not have been fired if Jose was not free. Woodward messed up everything as he usually does.

Thank you

I watched a lot of LvG's Ajax games so I know exactly the thing you are talking about. His Dutch national team with flying RVP was also a delight to watch. Based on those performances I was actually super happy when he came to United. Unfortunately, his United ended up being polar opposite of his Ajax. For me it actually made the whole thing even more painful - knowing what we expected and what we got

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Why is our team giving good performances in one off games proof that we should be in a better standing than 5th?

That’s not what I said at all.

 

[Foxbatt]

Thank you

I watched a lot of LvG's Ajax games so I know exactly the thing you are talking about. His Dutch national team with flying RVP was also a delight to watch. Based on those performances I was actually super happy when he came to United. Unfortunately, his United ended up being polar opposite of his Ajax. For me it actually made the whole thing even more painful - knowing what we expected and what we got

Thank you very much. Yes the other reason for me is that I did a bit of coaching as an assistant to one of Europe's top eastern european coaches. USSR days. I see, in my humble opinion too many flaws in the way Ole set us up. It is not going to work. It is like grabbing a lion's tail. Most of the time the lion will win.

 

[Leftback99]

That’s not what I said at all.

Sorry I've misunderstood your first paragraph where you said "I think our players have proven on many occasions this season that they are better than our standing in the table."

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

First and most he is infront of them in the table. Sure, we got a better team on paper and should be infront of those but we have been hit by injuries and have a thin squad. Still infront.

He's managing the 2nd most expensive squad in the league man, what a ridiculous argument.

Second, they have been in Premier League longer so they have had time to show if they are good or bad. If I turn the question. What has Howe, Bruce, Moyes, Hodgson and Wilder done that is so great and not just being in the league? They don't even have more than 1-2 trophies together in top flight being in english football so long. Whats is being proven to you? To be a manager for teams placed in the relegation zone and near it?.

Are you that misinformed mate?

• Eddie Howe was named the Football League Manager of the Decade for the job he has done at Bournemouth, Howe rescued Bournemouth from relegation out of the Football League in his first season in charge, after the club started the season on minus 17 points, then led them to promotion the next. He's taken Bournemouth from league two to being a stable Premier League club.

• Former Inter Milan and England manager Roy Hodgson has won 8 league titles in two Scandinavian countries and won the LMA Manager of the year in 2010 after guiding Fulham to a Europa League final.

• David Moyes took Preston from league 1 to just one game away from the Premier League. He was given the Manchester United job because he took over a team that finished 16th and 15th and turned them into a top 7 side that regularly punched above their weight.

• Wilder got Sheffield United promoted last season and currently has he side playing superb football and sitting just 2 points behind Manchester United.

• Former United captain Steve Bruce has won promotion from the Championship 4 times with Hull City and Birmingham City.

Now remember @90 + 5min, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer took over Cardiff and then after failing to stop relegation (was on the cards anyway) got fired from the Championship side for being absoutely awful. Cardiff fans still shudder at the memories of his time there.

Third, by your logic, every new manager that comes into league is worse then those who have been there couple of years. If Allegri comes he is worse by your logic. Right? Because, what has he done in english football?

Nope, just the ones who've proven much more than Ole in a league worth anything.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Sorry I've misunderstood your first paragraph where you said "I think our players have proven on many occasions this season that they are better than our standing in the table."

Big misunderstanding if you get "one off games" from that. We're the second most expensive squad in the league and we've got miles better players than a load of the shit that has beaten us this season (Palace, Newcastle, Watford etc etc etc).

 

[Leftback99]

Big misunderstanding if you get "one off games" from that. We're the second most expensive squad in the league and we've got miles better players than a load of the shit that has beaten us this season (Palace, Newcastle, Watford etc etc etc).

Other expensive expensively assembled teams can point to games they have dropped points in and say the same like Chelsea, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Everton and Wolves. It's surprising we're 5th if anything.

Second most expensive doesn't mean a lot when we know much of that has been wasted. Our most expensive player has barely played making it even less relevant.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Other expensive expensively assembled teams can point to games they have dropped points in and say the same like Chelsea, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Everton and Wolves. It's surprising we're 5th if anything.

What's your point here?

I mean I agree it's suprising we're 5th, I mean last season 31 points after 21 games would've had us in joint 7th, a full 13 points off the top 4.

And let's not make out we're fielding a side of cheapos man , nearly every week we are miles more expensive that the opposition with De Gea, AWB 50m, Maguire 80m, Lindelöf 35m, Fred 50m, Martial 45m.

And quite clearly Ole rates every single one of those players and has shipped out players in order to build his future side around them.

 

[ivaldo]

I don't have that double think, I think our players have proven on many occasions this season that they are better than our standing in the table.

A new top forward thinking modern manager that has been targeted by the club would absolutely look to add reinforcements in January, and he'd know exactly what kind of players to target for his system. Would he "do the same thing"? No, because a top manager is much better at his job than Ole who's been so unremarkable in his career he's spent almost a decade in Norway.

Unless of course we disregard just how important a manager is to a football club despite the likes of Fergie and Klopp proving to us that it's absolutely EVERYTHING.

Now that said, I don't think we should fire Ole now after the past 6 weeks of acceptable enough form. I think we should've done it after Watford and are now in a position again where we must wait and see what happens during January, I think we'll regret it but I think it's only right.

Right, so why now? If he was never good enough, then why weren't we hearing this the moment we signed him. Why wasn't his clear inadequacies being sung from every rooftop when he was brought in? Sure there were some who didn't want him, but these issues weren't expressed a few months in as loudly as they are now.

I don't want to know what a modern forward thinking manager would do come the transfer window, I want to know what he would have done with no depth, with no creativity, with no back up strikers and the youngest squad in the league. Ole isn't being lambasted based on his future dealings, he's being lambasted based on what he has done with a very modest squad. So I ask: what would these other men have done? Where was the creativity going to come from? The depth in squad? The experience? Irrespective of who was in charge, they were always going to struggle.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Right, so why now? If he was never good enough, then why weren't we hearing this the moment we signed him. Why wasn't his clear inadequacies being sung from every rooftop when he was brought in?

A lot of people were fuming when he was brought in as caretaker, but that was some bounce we had, no doubt because as Ince said, Mourinho made things sooo soo soo bad.

The bounce was so good that many fans got onboard, thinking getting rid of Mourinho was the silver bullet.

A new top manager wouldn't have made the decisions Ole made last Summer, simples.

 

[90 + 5min]

He's managing the 2nd most expensive squad in the league man, what a ridiculous argument.



Are you that misinformed mate?

• Eddie Howe was named the Football League Manager of the Decade for the job he has done at Bournemouth, Howe rescued Bournemouth from relegation out of the Football League in his first season in charge, after the club started the season on minus 17 points, then led them to promotion the next. He's taken Bournemouth from league two to being a stable Premier League club.

• Former Inter Milan and England manager Roy Hodgson has won 8 league titles in two Scandinavian countries and won the LMA Manager of the year in 2010 after guiding Fulham to a Europa League final.

• David Moyes took Preston from league 1 to just one game away from the Premier League. He was given the Manchester United job because he took over a team that finished 16th and 15th and turned them into a top 7 side that regularly punched above their weight.

• Wilder got Sheffield United promoted last season and currently has he side playing superb football and sitting just 2 points behind Manchester United.

• Former United captain Steve Bruce has won promotion from the Championship 4 times with Hull City and Birmingham City.

Now remember @90 + 5min, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer took over Cardiff and then after failing to stop relegation (was on the cards anyway) got fired from the Championship side for being absoutely awful. Cardiff fans still shudder at the memories of his time there.



Nope, just the ones who've proven much more than Ole in a league worth anything.

No, he is not. According to transfermarkt we are only fifth "most valuable" club in England. And expensive means nothing. You can sign players and give them high wages but that doesn't show how good they are. Or bad.

We are talking about Premier League. No Football League. When people mocked fans for bringing up Solskjaer and his Molde titles then it should apply to everybody. Or? So why mention some promotions? Or Hodgson in Scandinavia? Wilder, Bruce, Howe, Hodgson, Moyes might be Premier League managers but nothing accomplished in top flight in terms of being winners and collecting titles. As I said, so many years together in England and hardly anything to show for it. You all criticize Solskjaer for his 5th place but no manager that you mentioned has even been there (more the briefly). So are you all being harsh to our manager, knowing in what state the club was when he took over from Mourinho and what injuries/thin squad he has to deal with this year?

Bournmouth is in relegation zone. That is being stable club? You say She U playing superb football but still being behind us? And we all know how well those other managers have been through their career. Just count how many times it says sacked by club.

Solskjaer is not the best in the world. Not even close. But he is at right place right now (looking at club in longer run) and we should take it easy by putting him under some of the managers you brought up. With that said, I'm not denying them what they have done in lower leagues.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Or

2050: We can't judge Ole until he signs 3 Balon Dor winners in one summer. These aren't even really his players. And no other manager has to deal with injuries which is an alien concept in the footballing world. Besides he's been making invisible progress. Those who haven't allocated 50 points in the skill tree to the 'blind patience' ability just can't see it. These things take time.

To be fair, his scenario has actually happened somewhat, as we've had quite the managerial changes in the past 8 years; especially if we sack Ole and hire another. Yours is more made up.