The “Ole In” Brigade

[buckooo1978]

As a proud member of the “Ole in” brigade, I’m getting tired of seeing the same lazy criticisms of us/the manager gathering likes on the Caf and Twitter.

I wanted to address them all in one place, hopefully some fellow sensible supporters will be able to add their own arguments

2) “Utd have made their worst start/worst away record/worst this/worse that”

Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys. Anybody who expected any more from this season, with this squad and these players was always setting themselves up for a fall. Re-adjust your expectations based on reality.

Ridiculous - is it expected we would be outplayed by the lower half of the Premier League? Schooled home and away by teams like Newcastle, a terrible Watford team? Your point was about expectations. It's simply ridiculous to suggest that on Boxing Day we should be level on points with Newcastle unless we are massively underperforming

our win % without penalties is 7% - truly pathetic for a club with a wage budget in the top 3 in the World

3) “Ole is a failed Cardiff manager”

So what? People need to get over this idea that the success or failure of a club begins and ends with the manager.

Experience counts for something in football and in life. Experienced managers can learn from mistakes. Ole hasn't learned from his... our results and performances are not even close to being acceptable

with his failures in the Premier League there is no evidence of his ability to turn this around.

6) “Ole is a poor Coach”

No evidence for this. People are obsessed with the idea of coaching but (most) of these players are 20+....you can’t make them play slicker, faster football just by “coaching”. Same way Pep can’t coach his philosophy to certain players, difference is City have been well-run for ten years so their squad needs minor tweaks every year not major surgery.

no evidence for this? are the Watford/Sheffield United/Newcastle/West Ham/Rochdale etc players technically better than ours? no chance- so why do we look so devoid of a plan against teams with a low block - a lack of coaching


unless we are counter attacking we have as much threat as a toddler with a water pistol. A lack of movement, overloading etc could be addressed on the training pitch

tactically Ole is wanting - why oh why are we playing 4-2-3-1 when our number 10 options are so laughable

its not just tactical play- the players are weak mentally- they arent confident going into these games. Coaching has an impact on this.

no evidence? what have you been watching- I'd put it to you.... what evidence is there that good coaching is going on? McTominay is the only player Ole has improved

I thought I'd just address the important points you made. The points that are relevant to him retaining his job.

see above

 

[matherto]

You don't think he's a good manager but you claim that it will be insane to sack him because the continuity we strive for will be achieved by him despite you suggesting that he's not good enough for the job.

Okay. Maybe i'm not getting your point but it looks a bit surreal. Just like the notion that he froze out Jones by agreeing on him getting a new 4-year deal.

And new contracts to Pereira, Lingard, Jones, Mata etc. indicate that we have learnt nothimg from our previous mistakes.

Right now, there is nobody out there that would be doing a significantly better job. Most if not all of the managers that could are currently employed and we aren't getting them so we're stuck with Ole or we take someone on a real gamble. I'd rather not take yet another real gamble and wait until someone suitably good enough is worth getting rid of Ole for.

I don't think Ole would be good enough for the job if we had an amazing squad and we were equipped for taking on City and Liverpool in the league and we were chasing the Champions League against Barça, Real, Bayern, etc.

Right now though, with the squad we've got and how bare bones it is, he's fine. Results are going to be up and down as are performances. We've got young players who are hugely inconsistent but talented and we've got dross players that just aren't good enough so expecting anything more than we're getting right now is ludicrous. I fully expect us to drop points against shite teams but I didn't expect us to play so well against the good teams so at least there's been some nice surprises.

He HAS frozen out Jones, he rarely plays him regardless of the contract situation, similarly with Matic. Mata rarely plays too in all honesty, especially given he's got a new contract.. Ole also personally didn't give the guy a new contract. He personally didn't give the other players you've mentioned contracts either. Woodward did. Whether the board thought we might recoup some cash for them or not we chose to do that rather than let them go on a free.

Ole will make mistakes and with the likes of Pereira he clearly has something of a soft spot for him but alas, I'm willing to give him some slack in that department for now.

I have no expectations on results other than players actually show they care which is more than could be said under previous managers and as much as we've played some absolute shite this season, there have been enough good performances, comebacks, moments where we see the players care and they are playing for the manager and the club. If you fail to see that then that's up to you but I've seen it. Games this season that we'd have definitely lost in the past and had the likes of Neville saying 'I don't like this squad/team' on commentary because they don't care have been rescued with a point or won.

Now those games are games that we'd take for granted under SAF and with our past squads but this is the reality of the situation right now under Ole in 2019 having been mismanaged both during and after SAF since the Glazers took over. It's a decade of failures all throughout the club and they've finally truly caught up with us. Because of that scale of failure and the sheer size of the rebuild actually needed I'm fine with a manager that I don't truly rate as long as I see a plan in place to do something about it and I do, it's really that simple. I've got patience and a bit of faith that something is happening at the club. It helps of course that he's Ole Gunnar Solskjaer so there is bias there but at least I know he definitely does care about the club which is more than could be said for Jose for instance.

We will see in January, in summer and the transfer windows after that whether there is actually a plan and we buy the right players or whether we either don't spend or buy the wrong ones. Only after that has come to fruition will I make a judgement about whether I'm #OleOut or not. That plan sadly wasn't in place under Moyes, LVG or Mourinho because we didn't get rid of anyone and we just added to the pile. For all of LVG's talk of 'philosophy' his transfers were appalling, as were Moyes and Mourinho's. At least Ole has bought something resembling promise in AWB and James and Maguire for all his faults is better than Jones, Smalling and Rojo (plus, even if he isn't/wasn't, I'm sick of seeing Jones and Smalling in the team so I'm glad they're not).

You'd do well to realise where we are as a team and a club right now and realise that unfortunately, barring a miracle, we'd be doing not a whole lot better with anyone else so we might as well suck it and see.

 

[billybee99]

Yes

You have to stop thinking of “better” in such a linear way. We arguably have 6/7 “better” individuals than the likes of Wolves/Leicester but collectively they are better. They have round pegs in round holes and a squad who’s players complement each other’s strengths and mitigate each others weaknesses

Our squad is a mess, inexperienced players, no proper forwards, no proper #10s, only really one proper winger. That’s even before you get into the actual debate about the ability of the players

And why do you think it is that they are "collectively better" despite us having "6\7 better individuals". Do you you think that might have something to do with coaching?

 

[El Jefe]

Your point number 1. Of course its all about nostalgia with Ole. If it was any other manager that wasn't a United legend on the sacking thread it would be about 90% get rid.

Your point number 2. United have made their worst start in PL history and you couldn't give a monkies really does show how low your expectations have fallen. Of course no one expected us to win the PL but it is possible to be competitive while under transition. We are now hearing this season is being used to assess the squad for next. If Ole doesn't know who's good enough after already being a year in charge then I'm afraid he's a worse manager than I thought.

Your point number 3. Ole is a failed manager at Cardiff and so what?? Very few people get top jobs through failure which brings it back to your point number 1.

Your point number 4. Jose had to go but him having more points than Ole after losing the squad and sabotaging the season speaks volumes of exactly were we are and that's after Ole spent £130m on 2 defenders.

Your point number 5. Calling us an irrelevant club shows how far you go to justify Ole as our manager. We are still in the top 5 of the worlds richest clubs. Yes the core is rotten but that doesn't mean we have to accept mediocrity to get us back on track which we seem to be doing at all levels.

Your point number 6. There's no evidence Ole has been a poor coach? Really? Have you been watching us at all the better part of the last year? I wouldn't mind being in the position we are now if I could see some sort of idea of how Ole wants to play but after a year I see zilch or even if Ole was some sort of young, upcoming coach that could make me think he deserves time. He's been in the game for over a decade and has done nothing before or since for him to be even considered to be manager at one of the worlds top clubs.

Round of applause for this post. Nothing better than cold hard facts but from reading the caf the Ole in crowd aren't really in favour of facts.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Right now, there is nobody out there that would be doing a significantly better job.

How do you know?

You think someone like Pochettino or Allegri, with their backgrounds, wouldn't be doing better than someone who has us in 8th place and just got beat by one of the worst PL sides ever. Explain that one to me.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

As a proud member of the “Ole in” brigade, I’m getting tired of seeing the same lazy criticisms of us/the manager gathering likes on the Caf and Twitter.

I wanted to address them all in one place, hopefully some fellow sensible supporters will be able to add their own arguments

1) “The love for Ole is all based on nostalgia and reverence for an ex-Red”

Not true. I’ve never seen a single argument from a pro-Ole supporter saying that he should remain in the job because he is an ex-player/club legend. This argument has been made up by the anti-Ole brigade, who have then proceeded to get angry at their own argument.

2) “Utd have made their worst start/worst away record/worst this/worse that”

Could. Not. Give. A. Monkeys. Anybody who expected any more from this season, with this squad and these players was always setting themselves up for a fall. Re-adjust your expectations based on reality.

3) “Ole is a failed Cardiff manager”

So what? People need to get over this idea that the success or failure of a club begins and ends with the manager.

4) “Jose Mourinho blah blah blah”

I liked Jose but with the benefit of hindsight, he had completely lost the plot in that 3rd season. Also, the man left over a year ago...let’s stop going on about it.

5) “We’re Man Utd, we should be doing X,Y....”

Means nothing. We’re currently an irrelevant club with mediocre players run by a clown and owned by shareholders looking to make a quick dollar. We’ve no divine right to win anything or sign any player because “we’re Man Utd”

6) “Ole is a poor Coach”

No evidence for this. People are obsessed with the idea of coaching but (most) of these players are 20+....you can’t make them play slicker, faster football just by “coaching”. Same way Pep can’t coach his philosophy to certain players, difference is City have been well-run for ten years so their squad needs minor tweaks every year not major surgery.

This has got to be one of the laziest OP I've seen around here.

1) Which biased person in all their stubbornness are going to admit that they are biased?

2) Quite bizarre that you think we need to readjust our expectations of our juggernaut club, when you are the one saying you couldn't give a rat's ass about our results.

3) Ole with a shit record in the PL and mediocre CV doesn't exactly gives us any confidence?? Would you accept another random Norwegian coach to manage our club?

4) I don't even know why Jose is part of this discussion.

5) As much as you don't like hearing that we are a big club, the reality is that we are. We still are a big club at the moment and we are in danger of doing an AC Milan. Big clubs have big aspirations , achieve big results, hire top managers and sign top players. I don't think that's really that hard to grasp.

6) No evidence of Ole being a poor coach? what football have you been watching mate? How about any shred of evidence you can find that Ole is a good coach?

Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this thread, but it's been a trainwreck so far.

 

[billybee99]

It literally says that in the OP....

A “proper” defence of Ole would focus on the chaotic mess he inherited, only having one window etc....

"The chaotic mess" that he inherited was better last year on points and league position with a manager who had lost his mind and the dressing room.. The manager was sacked with a better record than Ole has now. Same players. Another window. Sold some, bought some and 2 positions worse.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Epic, Epic, Epic Fail from @Lentwood !

I find it's even funnier if you imagine cheesy 'uplifting', 'patriotic' music playing while reading the absolute guff, comedy OP.

Great stuff, Merry Christmas one and all!

 

[Massive Spanner]

Epic, Epic, Epic Fail from @Lentwood !

I find it's even funnier if you imagine cheesy 'uplifting', 'patriotic' music playing while reading the absolute guff, comedy OP.

Great stuff, Merry Christmas one and all!

It's quite hilarious. I especially love the idea that him being a Utd legend has in fact got absolutely nothing to do with why they want to keep him

 

[Andycoleno9]

Criticising the manager is fine - for example I thought Ole managed the Watford game poorly. Should have started Pogba and Greenwood and his subs were poor

However, the “lazy” criticisms I’m fed up of hearing where the ones I highlighted in the OP

I’m sick of hearing about Jose, I’m sick of fans talking about “coaching” as if they have the first clue what’s going on behind the scenes and I’m sick of the notion that people like me support Ole because he played for us once

You are sick of hearing the truth and then you decided to defend him ignoring all the facts and calling it lazy criticsm? Shit results, shit general play, losing against everybody, etc...you don't want to hear about it? Well this is original, i give you that.
And yes, you support him because he once played for once. You are just in denial.

 

[Dec9003]

Theres a good boy. Theres a Top Red™.

Posts like this make for grim reading on Christmas Day of all days.

 

[Enigma_87]

"The chaotic mess" that he inherited was better last year on points and league position with a manager who had lost his mind and the dressing room. Same players. The manager was sacked with a better record than Ole has now. Same players.

Not same players. He spent 150m in the Summer. More than anyone else.

He also got rid of those who were supposedly ‘useless’.

 

[matherto]

How do you know?

You think someone like Pochettino or Allegri, with their backgrounds, wouldn't be doing better than someone who has us in 8th place and just got beat by one of the worst PL sides ever. Explain that one to me.

Allegri has shown he's done well with either a Milan team capable of winning Serie A or a Juve team utterly dominant. There's no evidence to suggest he'd do well with this current United team and the state of it plus the state of the board. I remember when he was Milan manager and at times when he was Juve manager, their fans didn't like him or rate him too so there's doubts there.

Pochettino had a much, much better Spurs squad than this United one is and when you really boil it down, achieved the square root of feck all. He's got a reputaiton as an amazing manager but he isn't. He also hasn't won anything (even 'arry managed to win stuff with Spurs) and claims he doesn't NEED to win trophies to be considered a good manager which is a mentality I want nowhere near the club, that effectively makes hm a posh Moyes.

Ole, shite or not knows he needs to win trophies at some point, he gets it. Ask yourself honestly, what did Spurs actually accomplish under Poch versus what were Arsenal like in the last decade or so under Wenger? Both sides were known for playing nice football and blooding youngsters in but ultimately achieving feck all (albeit Wenger eventually won a couple of FA Cups at least). Pochettino's transfers were appalling too. He's got a horrible record at buying players which doesn't bode well if you need a massive rebuild. You can argue Spurs didn't have the money to truly back him but I could argue we don't either and Ed is useless at getting in players that managers want plus our board is recalcitrant to back any manager properly hence why Jose fell out with them so what would Poch do?

So who else is out there that is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt world class and would have a plan for us? I'm really struggling to come up with anyone.

Also this Watford side aren't one of the worst PL sides ever. They've actually got quality but for numerous reasons this season it's not showing. But if you want to use that as a stick to beat Ole with, did you do the same to SAF between 2004 and 2006? Would you have done the same to Poch considering he's lost a fair few of those types of games for Spurs too?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Allegri has shown he's done well with either a Milan team capable of winning Serie A or a Juve team utterly dominant. There's no evidence to suggest he'd do well with this current United team and the state of it plus the state of the board. I remember when he was Milan manager and at times when he was Juve manager, their fans didn't like him or rate him too so there's doubts there.

Pochettino had a much, much better Spurs squad than this United one is and when you really boil it down, achieved the square root of feck all. He's got a reputaiton as an amazing manager but he isn't. He also hasn't won anything (even 'arry managed to win stuff with Spurs) and claims he doesn't NEED to win trophies to be considered a good manager which is a mentality I want nowhere near the club, that effectively makes hm a posh Moyes.

Ole, shite or not knows he needs to win trophies at some point, he gets it. Ask yourself honestly, what did Spurs actually accomplish under Poch versus what were Arsenal like in the last decade or so under Wenger? Both sides were known for playing nice football and blooding youngsters in but ultimately achieving feck all (albeit Wenger eventually won a couple of FA Cups at least). Pochettino's transfers were appalling too. He's got a horrible record at buying players which doesn't bode well if you need a massive rebuild. You can argue Spurs didn't have the money to truly back him but I could argue we don't either and Ed is useless at getting in players that managers want plus our board is recalcitrant to back any manager properly hence why Jose fell out with them so what would Poch do?

So who else is out there that is absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt world class and would have a plan for us? I'm really struggling to come up with anyone.

Also this Watford side aren't one of the worst PL sides ever. They've actually got quality but for numerous reasons this season it's not showing. But if you want to use that as a stick to beat Ole with, did you do the same to SAF between 2004 and 2006? Would you have done the same to Poch considering he's lost a fair few of those types of games for Spurs too?

Oh come on, this is ridiculous. You're really trying to claim they wouldn't do better than Ole is doing? Ole is doing worse than any of Moyes, LvG or Jose ever were for us. It's insane to suggest that Poch or Allegri wouldn't do any better than him. At worst Poch would probably turn us back into a regular top four side and Allegri would probably have us winning trophies. We will never get either of those with Ole. He is useless.

 

[matherto]

So neither of you think Ole is the man to lead us into any future success but you're backing him because he loaned out Sanchez and sold Lukaku. Truly baffling.

There's a plan in place. Let's see where it leads.

That's more than we've had under any manager since SAF.

I don't thnk Ole is capable of going toe to toe with Pep or Klopp, that doesn't mean he can't win us stuff once we've got a squad capable of it. Probably not a league but perhaps a cup or two. Then if we have the players in place we get rid and give it to someone who definitely could win the league, assuming there's actually someone available out there.

 

[matherto]

Oh come on, this is ridiculous. You're really trying to claim they wouldn't do better than Ole is doing? Ole is doing worse than any of Moyes, LvG or Jose ever were for us. It's insane to suggest that Poch or Allegri wouldn't do any better than him. At worst Poch would probably turn us back into a regular top four side and Allegri would probably have us winning trophies. We will never get either of those with Ole. He is useless.

No it isn't.

There's no evidence to suggest Poch can buy properly to turn this current United squad into a consistent top four team. There is evidence however that he can lose a dressing room (which is something I don't think Ole has done).

There's no evidence to suggest Allegri is capable with anything other than a guaranteed title winning team.

Those are seperate issues to whether Ole is good enough or not but they mean that there's enough doubt in place to think twice about getting them in and overhauling yet again. They may do a slightly better job but not such a better job that it's worth changing managers and uprooting the current strategy for. They aren't world beaters.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Your point number 1. Of course its all about nostalgia with Ole. If it was any other manager that wasn't a United legend on the sacking thread it would be about 90% get rid.

Your point number 2. United have made their worst start in PL history and you couldn't give a monkies really does show how low your expectations have fallen. Of course no one expected us to win the PL but it is possible to be competitive while under transition. We are now hearing this season is being used to assess the squad for next. If Ole doesn't know who's good enough after already being a year in charge then I'm afraid he's a worse manager than I thought.

Your point number 3. Ole is a failed manager at Cardiff and so what?? Very few people get top jobs through failure which brings it back to your point number 1.

Your point number 4. Jose had to go but him having more points than Ole after losing the squad and sabotaging the season speaks volumes of exactly were we are and that's after Ole spent £130m on 2 defenders.

Your point number 5. Calling us an irrelevant club shows how far you go to justify Ole as our manager. We are still in the top 5 of the worlds richest clubs. Yes the core is rotten but that doesn't mean we have to accept mediocrity to get us back on track which we seem to be doing at all levels.

Your point number 6. There's no evidence Ole has been a poor coach? Really? Have you been watching us at all the better part of the last year? I wouldn't mind being in the position we are now if I could see some sort of idea of how Ole wants to play but after a year I see zilch or even if Ole was some sort of young, upcoming coach that could make me think he deserves time. He's been in the game for over a decade and has done nothing before or since for him to be even considered to be manager at one of the worlds top clubs.

Excellent post!

 

[el3mel]

Is it though? We are pretty much the only club calling themselves as “the biggest club in the world” but having quite literally zero expectations. I think we are the dream job for any manager. We have the resources, just make the CL and you are perfectly safe. Most other big clubs wouldn’t be content with that.

And if you're an ex United legend you don't need to do that either. Just smile in press conferences and play some youth, and you'll find a big group of fans defending you regularly.

 

[Massive Spanner]

No it isn't.

There's no evidence to suggest Poch can buy properly to turn this current United squad into a consistent top four team. There is evidence however that he can lose a dressing room (which is something I don't think Ole has done).

There's no evidence to suggest Allegri is capable with anything other than a guaranteed title winning team.

Those are seperate issues to whether Ole is good enough or not but they mean that there's enough doubt in place to think twice about getting them in and overhauling yet again. They may do a slightly better job but not such a better job that it's worth changing managers and uprooting the current strategy for. They aren't world beaters.

Right but there's also no evidence at all to suggest that neither of them would do better with this squad, and you originally said that no manager available right now would do better with this squad.

What there IS plenty of evidence for is that both are more proven and better managers at this level than Ole who have achieved much more. So that tends to mean that they would be more likely to do better with the team than Ole. How you can possibly say with such authority that they wouldn't get more out of this team than a really poor manager like Ole is ridiculous.

 

[LJJT]

He’s doing the right things he possibly can for the club, not himself. Think what you like of him but he’s doing everything he can for the right reasons, for the club. That alone allows him a break from the mindless criticism he gets

 

[Stacks]

How about Pep? Barely scraping 4th with footballs most expensive squad?

You think this place would have been an oasis of calm and reasoned logic?

He finished 3rd which was an improvement on their previous season. Also got their furthest in the CL with a semi final appearance.

Yes

You have to stop thinking of “better” in such a linear way. We arguably have 6/7 “better” individuals than the likes of Wolves/Leicester but collectively they are better. They have round pegs in round holes and a squad who’s players complement each other’s strengths and mitigate each others weaknesses

Our squad is a mess, inexperienced players, no proper forwards, no proper #10s, only really one proper winger. That’s even before you get into the actual debate about the ability of the players

Sheffield United were in the championship last season. How could they have better players? Who of theirs would you swap

 

[b82REZ]

There's a plan in place. Let's see where it leads.

That's more than we've had under any manager since SAF.

I don't thnk Ole is capable of going toe to toe with Pep or Klopp, that doesn't mean he can't win us stuff once we've got a squad capable of it. Probably not a league but perhaps a cup or two. Then if we have the players in place we get rid and give it to someone who definitely could win the league, assuming there's actually someone available out there.

I couldn't disagree more. Of all the managers post Fergie, LvG was the only one who truly imposed a style and philosophy on us. It was boring as shit and made my eyes bleed but he had a vision and he stuck to it. To completely ignore that shows your bias towards the current manager.

Ole has shown absolutely no style beyond fast counters. We do not impose ourselves on any game and our most successful tactic is to cede possession and hit with pace.

You clearly have a bias towards the current boss, and that's understandable, but to claim your decision isn't based on the romantic idea of a former player returning us to glory is a lie. Fair enough you don't rate Poch, but to claim in any way Ole is a superior manager is bs. Objectively speaking Poch improved two mid - upper tier PL clubs, and, especially with Spurs had them up among the best. He didn't win a trophy but they were much closer than we are likely to be under Ole.

I got caught up in the hysteria last February too and it was hard to accept the shit I was seeing at first. It felt like treason to criticize the guy that won us the CL, but at the end of the day I support Manchester United, not Ole Gunnar Solksjaer. He has successfully lowered expectations and has bluffed his way through by talking about culture and returning to the old ways. Exactly the sort of the things all of us would say in his position, but that doesn't make any of us qualified to lead the team and ask for multiple seasons to rebuild a squad that finished 2nd a few years a go

 

[matherto]

Right but there's also no evidence at all to suggest that neither of them would do better with this squad, and you originally said that no manager available right now would do better with this squad.

What there IS plenty of evidence for is that both are more proven and better managers at this level than Ole who have achieved much more. So that tends to mean that they would be more likely to do better with the team than Ole. How you can possibly say with such authority that they wouldn't get more out of this team than a really poor manager like Ole is ridiculous.

There is no evidence that either would do better with this squad. That much is true.

There is no evidence that Pochettino is more proven or a better manager than Ole other than the past year under Ole and look what happened in that time, Spurs sacked him cause he was doing shite. Should we hire a guy that Spurs sacked for doing shite?

There's evidence Allegri would win a league in Italy with a title winning dominant squad. Is there evidence that he would get more out of the players we currently have in England? No.

 

[SmallCaine]

What's with the what about "insert manager name and troubled period here" defense?

Ole gunnar solskjær isn't a manager who won multiple trophies with Barcelona, he isn't the only non Bayern manager to win consecutive bundesliga titles in this millennium or the man who won a European trophy with aberdeen.

They got time because their cv's deserved it, ogs's doesn't. He is a failed Cardiff manager whose last league win came in 2012. Having had a whole year, he's been unable to even get us to play a consistent visible style of football, let alone get results that might suggest that he knows what he is doing.

 

[Bebestation]

The fact is every manager has his positives and negatives.

Ole's negatives are effecting are going to affect us this season but once he is gone by the end of the season his positives will have uses for Manchester United for many other managers.

What's the damn rush? What are we losing in this next 5 months? Pochettino is waiting on the other side so just let Ole finish the squad overhaul of the youngsters.

 

[billybee99]

No it isn't.

There's no evidence to suggest Poch can buy properly to turn this current United squad into a consistent top four team. There is evidence however that he can lose a dressing room (which is something I don't think Ole has done).

There's no evidence to suggest Allegri is capable with anything other than a guaranteed title winning team.

Those are seperate issues to whether Ole is good enough or not but they mean that there's enough doubt in place to think twice about getting them in and overhauling yet again. They may do a slightly better job but not such a better job that it's worth changing managers and uprooting the current strategy for. They aren't world beaters.

yes there is evidence - Spurs. He turned them into a consistent top 4 team. His final season doesn't change that fact. He also got them to a Champions League final. The levels of delusion in this thread are staggering. It's like nobody wants to look at actual facts and evidence. The records are there. Poch's record as a Premier League manager is there to see for anyone that actually wants real facts. Allegri's record is there; it's a damn good one. Ole's record as a Premier League manager is there; it is staggeringly poor especially when you take away the new manager bounce. It's amazing how many people want to toss aside Allegri's win with Milan like it's an after thought. It's like "oh he won with Juventus, so what, it's a one team League." Let's not mention that other title with Milan in the one team League.

 

[JJ12]

How many league 1 teams have played those 3 in a season @JJ12 ? I mean, you may as well have written “I’ve seen lots of J league teams....”

Good one

If you think League 1 managers could pull that off then all the fecking best to you

 

[passing-wind]

Yawn underperforming manager, lack of ambition from fans to support failure.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Right or wrong, its reality. Especially at big clubs like United. If he loses one or two more against mid table opposition, he could literally be shown the door within weeks.

How many points more he needs to lose against weaker clubs? West ham, SU, Newcastle, Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Everton, Villa, Palace...

Ridiculous stuff is that he is still here.

 

[Massive Spanner]

There is no evidence that Pochettino is more proven or a better manager than Ole other than the past year under Ole and look what happened in that time, Spurs sacked him cause he was doing shite. Should we hire a guy that Spurs sacked for doing shite?

What? Are you for real? You can't truly believe that, he got them to the CL final 7 months ago

You and the Op need to stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

[RUCK4444]

What? Are you for real? You can't truly believe that, he got them to the CL final 7 months ago

You and the Op need to stop embarrassing yourselves.

Nothing wrong with questioning Pochettino, until he wins something he’s won nothing. And therefore open to scrutiny.

Anyway one off cup run isn’t exactly that impressive, you could argue Ole’s run when he first came here was harder to sustain.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Nothing wrong with questioning Pochettino, until he wins something he’s won nothing. And therefore open to scrutiny.

Anyway one off cup run isn’t exactly that impressive, you could argue Ole’s run when he first came here was harder to sustain.

There's nothing wrong with questioning him, which is why I didn't do that. there's everything wrong with trying to claim he isn't a better and more proven manager than Ole based on their respective careers so far.

 

[RUCK4444]

The fact is every manager has his positives and negatives.

Ole's negatives are effecting are going to affect us this season but once he is gone by the end of the season his positives will have uses for Manchester United for many other managers.

What's the damn rush? What are we losing in this next 5 months? Pochettino is waiting on the other side so just let Ole finish the squad overhaul of the youngsters.

This is the thing... What is the rush, I’ve said before, we were never winning anything or even likely to finish top four in this season.

Therefore, as Ole’s signings have been good, it does no harm to let him remain and see where we finish.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Top post mate, at least some of us can see what they are doing.

You been on the McSauce JP?

 

[Andycoleno9]

There is no evidence that either would do better with this squad. That much is true.

There is no evidence that Pochettino is more proven or a better manager than Ole other than the past year under Ole and look what happened in that time, Spurs sacked him cause he was doing shite. Should we hire a guy that Spurs sacked for doing shite?

There's evidence Allegri would win a league in Italy with a title winning dominant squad. Is there evidence that he would get more out of the players we currently have in England? No.

The logic here and in the whole post is amazing. So lets not look what Poch did in 5 years, lets judge him by this season? Is there any evidence that xy player will be good in United? From Mbappe and Messi to Haaland and Sancho? By your logic no so lets not buy new players at all.

Bloody hell, you Ole brigade are now embarrassing yourselves.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He’s doing the right things he possibly can for the club, not himself. Think what you like of him but he’s doing everything he can for the right reasons, for the club. That alone allows him a break from the mindless criticism he gets

Whilst being paid millions... what a sacrifice from him.

 

[reddevil702]

Let me get this straight, you don't want ole-in due nostalgia or the fact he's a club legend but yet you don't care that he has the club off to a historic worst start in a number of categories, his only other experience in the PL ended up in relegation and now United are an irrelevant club - not due to Ole - of course. Yet after all of this there is no evidence that he's a poor manager. I mean seriously this is getting comical, almost seems like banter.

 

[matherto]

The logic here and in the whole post is amazing. So lets not look what Poch did in 5 years, lets judge him by this season? Is there any evidence that xy player will be good in United? From Mbappe and Messi to Haaland and Sancho? By your logic no so lets not buy new players at all.

Bloody hell, you Ole brigade are now embarrassing yourselves.

What did he do for 5 years that AVB and 'arry didn't do before him?

That's the problem with Poch, he's got a reputation from certain people that he doesn't deserve. In reality he made an already good Spurs team stabilise whilst buying poorly, failing to win anything, failing to beat his nearest rivals and not doing anything spectacular.

 

[matherto]

What? Are you for real? You can't truly believe that, he got them to the CL final 7 months ago

You and the Op need to stop embarrassing yourselves.

Let's hire Roberto di Matteo. He actually won the CL after his fluke run.

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

So we’re giving OgS credit for sales then criticising Woodward for the lack of buys?

Surely you don’t ‘sanction’ sales without insisting on replacements.

If people are giving OgS the praise for getting rid of undererformers why is Woodward criticised for incomings?

The truth is no one posting on this forum sits in on transfer discussions so to conveniently use transfers out as something to praise OgS for then blame Woodward for none coming in is simply further proof of the ‘Ole in’ crowd attempting to find anything to praise him for.

I’m more than happy to praise OgS for offloading players but in that case he must hold some responsibility for no one coming in to replace them.

Bizarre reply, your holding Ole responsible for getting deals done?

I'd hazard a guess Ole's as pissed as us that deals haven't been done to replace first team players, but he's not going out and start a war with Woodward straight away is he.

Ole probably didn't think they'd be as inept as they've been , I find it hilarious your attempting to shift that responsibility onto Ole.

Get a grip