If they failed. Then what Ole is doing is murdering the club
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
How does one Murder a club?
I see you do not look at context, Which clubs has Poch coached and what has he instilled in his teams. What trophies do you expect him to win with Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs? He consistently improved all his teams and took spurs to depths they could only dream of. You say its knee jerk i see it as logic.
He worked under even worse conditions at Spurs with Levy. Going through a whole season and watching all his rivals strengthen their teams because he didnt have money. All his players improved and what happened with him being sacked was always going to happen because you can only go so far with limited resources.
If you think its knee jerk take a look at all his suitors who would like to acquire his services even though it went pear shaped towards the end at Spurs.
Do they failed though?
Or was it our expectations wasn't realistic?
A 2nd place and a few cups isn't failed in my eyes. Especially we're up agains 100 pts city.
What would you call what Ole is doing if those managers failed?
I get you admire Poch however the myth that spurs were a nothing side before him has to stop. Spurs had been improving year on year under Jol and Redknapp. In fact Rednapp took them to a CL semi final with the supposedly inferior squad. I’m sure our resident Spurs supporters would agree with me?Wilder can only dream of accomplishing what Pochettino has done. Even though Wilder is doing great this season, his season can be described as an anomaly because he has not shown the consistency yet to do it over multiple seasons. Next season Sheffield could relegated, so I will wait until he has another season under his belt before he can even be mentioned in the same sentence as one of the top two managers in football. Pochettino side was in a transitional period, where poor performances were natural due to the amazing cycle that just ended where he took a team with nothing spent to top four and a champion league final. I can say that Wilder in his career will never accomplish that
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Also, outside of raising a top 6 team to a top 4 team what has he done to be considered one of the Top 2 managers in the world? As much as I hate to admit it that is definitely Klopp and Guardiola, in fact I would say that If anything Poch may or may not even be top 10.
Exactly. Think it’s just the Ole in new spin , to say top managers already failed. But if 2nd place and winning cups is failing then what do we call the catastrophe that Ole is doing.
Murdering the club.
Bailly = Flop, but can turn it around.
Mkhitaryan = Flop.
Ibrahimovic = Great signing, even if it was only for the short-term.
Pogba = Great signing, though hopefully there's still more to come from him.
Matic = Good signing, but a pretty short-term one tbh.
Lukaku = Was so poor last season that he left United therefore he can only be considered a flop. At least we recouped most of the money for him (I think).
Lindelof = Good signing, hasn't quite been great yet but hopefully there's more to come from him.
Sanchez = Diabolical signing, worst signing United has ever made in their premier league era.
Fred = Has been great since the start of December, starting to look like a successful signing.
Dalot = Has been injured too much so far but has shown glimpses of unreal quality for a right back (going forward), wait and see for Dalot.
Grant = I don't even really count him as a signing tbh. Nothing more to say about him.
Overall, 2/4 success rate first summer (but one of the two successes is no longer at the club), 2/3 success rate second summer, Sanchez was a disaster of a signing, 1/2 in the final summer window (Dalot has unfortunately been injured a lot so far and I don't really count Grant, no disrespect to him).
Our signings under Jose had a 50% success rate. Not quite good enough tbh, you want at least 2/3 of them to work out, 80% of them.
Where they really? LVG got sacked at every big club he was in, twice. We got him from Holland's national team whose basically the place to go for managers prior to retirement. Mou got sacked at his 2 previous jobs. He's got the record of losing the dressing room three times at a row.
Don't get me wrong United's problems are way bigger then the manager. Everything at this club is rotten. Our owners care only about money, our CEO and fitness team are clueless, the scouting team seem unable to bring up names that aren't what a 12 year old football fan would suggest by playing football manager, our recruitment team take ages to sign players, they over pay players and they struggle to get rid of players let alone making some profit out of them, the coaching team are in top jobs most because of their previous United links rather then what they had produced in football and even the youth academy seem struggling to get results (our U23 got relegated last season and our U18 sits 7th place). However let's be honest here. Both LVG and Mou were in decline prior to joining us. No wonder why the former has since retired while the latter is at Spurs, not Real or Bayern.
I think you'll struggle to find a supporter that thinks that the manager is the only problem United have at Manchester United. However, just because we've got this multitude of problems that doesn't mean we should add an incompetent manager to that endless list of problems as well.
Oh my god with that argument what on earth makes you believe that Ole will be succesfull here? We are 8th atm you know.
He's not a top 2 manager in a world, but he's on average had Spurs around 3rd place troughout his tenure bar his final season, while having almost non-existent netspend, he's had spurs in their highest points and places in the PL, took them further in the CL than they have ever been, and also took Southampon to their best ever PL season. He is so to speak a PL proven manager and he is not old either.
Do you really believe in this logic, or do you desperately want to spin things in Ole’s favour? What happens if Ole fails? Going by your logic we should hire a manager from Australia, right? If he fails aswell, we could say “we had 5 managers, and they all failed”, so the next logical step is to appoint an amateur, because we already tried professional managers. Maybe give it to Rashford as player manager.
Poch has proven a lot more, you just don’t want to see it.
Wow. Just the illogical nonsense from Ole supporters is quite frightening.
If Jose & LVG failed then Ole definitely has & should be sacked ASAP according to your own argument right? Right...?
Or is it just making whatever excuses going to keep a failed, simple & useless manager at our great club
Bailly = he had a fantastic first season with us then his injury prone problems took over his career. The guy had injury problems at his previous club as well. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Mkhitaryan = I got some mates who support Dortmund and they all say the same about him. He's a decent players but he lacks the character to play at a top club. In fact he even struggled to settle down at Dortmund at first as well and they are a fable club to play for. Once again it makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Ibra = Short term signing and a huge success
Pogba = Top top signing. However anyone who followed Juventus knew that Pogba can only play 1 position (ie left attacking side of a 3 men midfield). Both Allegri and Conte failed to change his role. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Matic = he was already in decline at Chelsea.It makes you wonder why none of at the club had picked that up
Lukaku = he's a powerful goal poacher with the first touch of an elephant. He will score plenty of goals against small opposition but he would always struggle against top defenders. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Lindelof = he's a decent defender but he's not particularly fast or particularly good in air. Which is a big problem in the fast paced EPL were crosses are still quite relevant. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Sanchez = People at Arsenal knew that Sanchez was in decline. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Fred = he came from Ukraine so he needed ample time to settle down in the EPL. It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Dalot = he came to United injured and has been injured ever since. Is he an injury prone player? It makes you wonder why none at the club had picked that up
Grant = irrelevant
Out of those players
Mkhitaryan, Ibra, Pogba and Lukaku are Mino's clients. Mou is quite close with Mino.
Matic, Lukaku and Ibra are Mou's ex players. We could have added Willian to that list. Thank god we didn't signed him.
Dalot and Lindelof came from the Portuguese league, a league Mou is quite close to.
That's not down to Mou as well. 1/2 of Moyes signings came from a club he had links to (ie Fellaini). During LVG period we've seen a huge amount of players coming from leagues he had close links to + players he had previously played for him and now things are looking that way with Ole as well (Haaland, Josh King, Ighalo, James who was suggested by his matey Giggsie, Longstaff who was suggested by his matey Carrick etc). I am pretty confident that if Pochs or any other manager is brought in then we'll see this same situation again.
Which makes you wonder, were they really signed for the club's best interests or was it down to their links with the manager?
So the issue here is pretty obvious. The system is inadequate to bring success. We need top football people at the club, whose got the club's best interest at heart and his job is to assess, suggest and facilitate the signings of players while stopping the managers from committing brain farts and giving jobs to his boys. TBF the managerial job had become far too big for the manager to also do the recruitment himself. He can't be expected to train the players while concurrently be in Spain to scout X player and negotiate with Y club and Z agent to try and signing this or that player. So seriously put this huge burden over the manager only for us to bash them for failing in it.
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By winning only 10 PL games out of 30.
Never ending story with Lukaku and Ole. No matter how many times you repeat that, people still will believe what they want.
Ole didn't see Lukaku as a first option striker. Last year Ole had his "Rashford striker" project. Lukaku himself said that he knew it is finished when Ole put him on the wing. ("Once I learned that [Ole Gunnar] Solsjkaer planned to put me on the wing, then I knew my time at Manchester United was over."). Ole maybe wanted Lukaku to stay but as a cover option. Of course that Lukaku decided to go somewhere where he will play on his position in first 11.
So yes, Lukaku wanted to leave but he was forced to leave.
Only inconsistent story you hear is from Lukaku, who creates new story every time he talks about why he left. He also said he decided to leave after the second game itself and also it wasn't as if Lukaku played most games as RW. He played couple of times, one was against Arsenal which was tactical move to exploit space left by FBs.
Its not even surprising that Lukaku wanted to leave, only reason he signed for us was Jose. His dream was always to play in many leagues so he thought this was the best moment to change clubs. It was all good till that point, not signing any replacement when players like Ben Yedder was signed for just 30+ million was very poor move from the club.
Murdering the club! The children are getting more and more tetchy that they're not getting what they want.Yes, the children are the ones you're throwing insults at. Just think about that one for a second.
Two of the best managers in world football... when they were well past their sell-by dates.
Poch proven zilch, as opposed to Olé, who's proving week-in, week-out that him and his vast backroom staff are way, way out of their collective depths.
Yeah, if you believe so..It's quite simple really.
Is it possible to buy a better player now than one we may have in a certain postion? Of course.
But what happens when an elite level player becomes available in the next window and we've already signed someone inferior in that position (probably for an enhanced fee and wages)?
Also, we have to consider the emerging talent we have in the youth teams. Is Greenwood the complete player now at 18? No, obviously. Do we blow up his path to the 1st team by looking purely at the short term?
But for injuries we would most likely be in the top 4 now and while the squad would definitely benefit from strengthening you only have to look at the reactions on here when actual available names are mentioned.
Patience is required. This is the correct strategy.
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I mean come on man, Poch has absolutely proven so far in his career that he's a much better manager than Ole. That's not even debatable.
But we've already had two world-class managers and both failed. I think we should just stick to Ole and continue failing. I mean, what has Poch won, he's not even world-class. What does he know about managing sides with little spending money.
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Poor Ole is looking more and more at sea during and after games. We all know that injuries have forced him to play unproven players and that what gives him some slack. I reckon if we do manage to win a cup and or make the top four, Woodward will stick with him as he’s cheap compared to Poch. In the meantime, it’s squeaky bum time.
From Wiki
"
In his first full season at Southampton, Pochettino led the team to an eighth-placed finish, their highest league position since 2002–03, while also recording their highest points tally since the Premier League began in 1992–93.[5][unreliable source?]
Tottenham Hotspur[edit]
On 27 May 2014, Pochettino was appointed head coach of Tottenham Hotspur on a five-year contract, becoming their tenth manager over a 12-year span.[80] The following 28 January, the team reached the final of the League Cup following a 3–2 aggregate win over Sheffield United, only to be beaten 2–0 by Chelsea in the decisive game at Wembley Stadium.[81] In the domestic league, his first season was generally successful, ending in a fifth-placed finish and the conversion of several young academy players into regular first-team players; he put one of those graduates, Harry Kane, as starting striker at the expense of Spanish international Roberto Soldado, a gamble which paid off[82] as Kane and his teammates Dele Alli and Eric Dier were touted as the potential basis for the England squad at UEFA Euro 2016.[83][unreliable source?]
Tottenham were in contention to win the league in 2015–16, but on 2 May 2016 they drew 2–2 against Chelsea, confirming Leicester City as champions. The game at Stamford Bridge saw the former receive a league record nine yellow cards, and Pochettino entered the pitch in the first half to separate his left back Danny Rose from a confrontation with Chelsea winger Willian.[84] Spurs also lost in their last match of the season, ceding the league runners-up spot to rival Arsenal[85] – it was still good enough for their highest league finish since 1990.[86]
On 12 May 2016, Pochettino agreed to an extension to his contract, committing him to the club until 2021[87] as it was also confirmed that his title had changed from that of "head coach" to "manager", although he confirmed that the role itself was no different.[88] The campaign began with a series of 12 unbeaten league matches that ended with a defeat away to Chelsea in late November.[89] However, inconsistencies which saw them being eliminated from UEFA Champions League and League Cup contention[90] meant that they fell some way behind the leaders Chelsea who had a run of 13 wins (ended by a loss to Tottenham in January 2017).[91]
Pochettino's side eventually finished in second place with 86 points, their highest-ever tally since the English League began under the new denomination[92] and their highest ranking in 54 years since 1962–63 under Bill Nicholson,[93] and the first season-long unbeaten home run in 52 years since 1964–65 was also achieved.[94][95]
On 24 May 2018, Pochettino signed a new five-year contract to keep him at Tottenham until 2023.[96] In December 2018, Pochettino won his 100th Premier League match as manager of Tottenham after a late win against Burnley; he became the first Tottenham manager to reach this milestone and the third quickest Premier League manager to achieve the feat with a single club.[97]
On 8 May 2019, Pochettino led Tottenham into the 2019 UEFA Champions League Final, the first Champions League/European Cup final in the club's history after beating Ajax on away goals (3–3 aggregate),[7] with his side coming back from a 2–0 deficit (3–0 aggregate) at half-time in Amsterdam, only for Lucas Moura to score a second-half hat-trick.[98] The final ended in a 2–0 defeat to Liverpool.[99]
On 19 November 2019, Pochettino was sacked by Tottenham Hotspur with the side placed 14th in the Premier League table, with chairman Daniel Levy citing "extremely disappointing" domestic results as the reason behind the dismissal.[100][101] Pochettino was succeeded by José Mourinho.[102]
Whether anyone is Ole in or out, we are clearly developing our side for the long run.
Not impulse buying a striker in the summer, waiting another year to see who else can be available, in hindsight looks a terrible decision but who was available?
OIe's biggest mistake which I think he regrets is putting faith in Pogba. He would have thought a fully fit Pogba for 3/4 of the season and others around him we will get top 4. That has backfired massively.
Pogba has 0 interest in Manutd and is only looking to get fit for the Euros, nothing else.
Tbh, I thought Pogba will be a key player for us this season, completely wrong I was.
It will require patience before we get things right.
Not impulse buying a striker in the summer, waiting another year to see who else can be available, in hindsight looks a terrible decision but who was available?
OIe's biggest mistake which I think he regrets is putting faith in Pogba. He would have thought a fully fit Pogba for 3/4 of the season and others around him we will get top 4. That has backfired massively.
Pogba has 0 interest in Manutd and is only looking to get fit for the Euros, nothing else.
Tbh, I thought Pogba will be a key player for us this season, completely wrong I was.
It will require patience before we get things right.
I agree we have tried with actual coaches before and it didnt worked out, maybe we should try with basketball players you know since we tried with footballers and we all saw what happened.
Ole is tied with Klopp as the third/fourth best paid manager in the premier league, at least they have that in common.
It was a bold but very stupid move in hindsight but then you have to look at what's gone on this window... we actually made a genuine bid to sign Josh King on a permanent deal. Josh King.
So not only did we neglect to sign a stop-gap at the right time (last summer), we compounded the mistake by trying to sign a dud on a long term deal and totally undermine the idea of patience and only buying players who genuinely improve the first eleven.
I agree with your point.
If you are going to be patient why bid £30m for Josh King.
Seems like Ole only wants players he has managed, or knows someone who has.
Maguire was managed by Mike Phelan
James was a Giggs
AWB was probably one the club targetted.
It is annoying because Ole is stubborn on this, if he was a bit more open to players joining, Bruno would have signed in the summer.
So Ole blocked the Bruno signing in the summer? That's just reaching now, come on..
So why didn't we sign him in the summer?
I have two theories
1. Pogba - he was a replacement and Ole put his faith in Pogba backfired.
2. What has been reported in the media - Ole was not impressed by his passing success rate.
With Ed's quotes today i just have a horrible feeling we're going to stick with him in the summer and watch other, far better managers, go elsewhere and do nothing. Hope I'm wrong.
So are you saying Bruno was never a serious target? Only a Pogba replacement if he went/Or we had an injury crisis?
Yeah, that's the feeling I get. Considering we had a whole summer and whole winter to negotiate and just about managed to.
Nothing about that deal scream, Manutd really wanted the player.
What happens when you fall so far behind the elite level players have no interest in joining?.What happens when you have a manager that has very little credibility and no pedigree?.
It’s a nice idea to hold off buying these elite players but then you need to be able to actually stay competitive. Maguire has taken a backward step, that’s not why he joined.
There has to some form of progression and something to buy into. A three year plan to finish first with Ole was a tough sell, a two year plan from a worse position is pretty laughable.
Can try to put spin on it but the team is going backwards and has a manager with no reputation at this level, that’s not helping club move forward.
So Liverpool were were elite when they signed VVD, Mane, Roberston, Salah?
So in your opinon who should we get as manager?
Maguire joined because he has been sold a rebuild - a rebuild that takes a few seasons not something that happens overnight.
Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.