The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield

[El Jefe]

When in reality, it’s more just massively not understanding the player profiles he has.

Like @El Jefe says, it’s true that people were banging on about how Man City play with 2 attacking midfielders, completely ignoring the fact that every single one of their midfielders passes and retains the ball with an accuracy that not a single one of ours can. Then there’s the (inability) of our midfield to retain the ball in tight spaces or dribble out of trouble. It was never comparable.

Hag, with a straight face, decided to add an attacking midfielder who excels at very little other than final third counter attacking to a midfield pairing that has the most volatile passers already in there. I still genuinely can’t work out if that was ignorance or arrogance.

Said perfectly and this is my main issue with Ten Hag. It’s absolutely comical that this was his grand plan. The foundations and pieces of his puzzle are a mess so he’s pretty much set himself up to fail.

He has no one to blame but himself as he chooses the tactics and is largely involved in player recruitment.

If we could see pretty easily this wouldn’t work it is alarming that he couldn’t. Managers make mistakes sometimes but this is structurally bad and that’s not the type of mistake a manager should be making after coaching a team for a whole year.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Can't even understand what you are saying, Mount is like Bruno, why do we want to 2xBruno in midfield? Maddison will easily replace Erikson. Maddison is a real playmaker unlike Bruno.

It's in really bad faith to claim we didn't go after Maddison simply because ETH managed Mount previously.

It's also very naive to think we can just replace players under contract with selling others on. Team and player management doesn't work the way you are dreaming.

And if you do some diligence on the players, you'll see that Bruno is much more like Maddison over the last several seasons from position taken on the field (heatmaps) to where he distributed passes. Much more so than Mount.

The idea Maddison solves a problem by bringing him in over Mount is quite off the mark.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Who would have won us those games? What game have we lost because of Bruno apparently being so bad?

How do people watch us play atm and come to the conclusion "it's Bruno that's the problem"?

I'm sorry but that's just bonkers.

Its bonkers now, but give it 8 months you will understand why Bruno is the main problem to this setup.

He's is Maguire of our midfield. No need to write more about it. Just be patient you will see in 1 years time.

Its either ETH leaves or Bruno leaves. The center will not hold anymore. We have become a very poor team in the last 3-4 years Bruno has been our main player.

We have changed managers/defenders/GK/Strikers etc but some Bruno and Rashford have been main stay in this team and miraculously our play remains the same.

We need to move away from Bruno and Rashford, not because they're bad players but because we need to evolve into a modern team. But urgently Bruno needs to be moved on.

 

[philippexyz]

This season is a write off with all the injuries, on and off the pitch issues, plus the looming dark cloud of a possible sale or Glazers staying and basically killing the club, long term. Ten Hag will be in danger of getting sacked and it seriously might happen.

I would play young , talented midfielders(Hannibal and Mainoo) as much as possible for them to gain experience at this level and mature.

Think we should often play a midfield of Casemiro/Amrabat - Hannibal/Mainoo - Mount this season to see how it works. Casemiro - Amrabat - Mount in tougher away games so we don't get humiliated potentially with 5+ goals conceded again. Bruno needs to be phased out slowly(if not swiftly) and I think more and more people on this forum are going to wake up and understand that. There is already a good portion of thoughtful, intellectually sharp people who see beyond the "stats" and what is the problem with him. Eriksen has no legs/physicality necessary anymore. McT and VDB are useless. Dan Gore - I don't know.

Hannibal, Mainoo, Amrabat and Mount are likely the most technically gifted footballers(in terms of comfort with the ball at their feet), press resistant. And all of them have pretty good work rate as well.

Mount should be the most advanced(attacking midfielder) - at least he can somewhat carry the ball, and retain it + he has an eye for a goal(one of his strengths). Bruno and Eriksen backing him up, rotating sometimes in less important games, while they are still at the club, even though they shouldn't be, really.

But I know that's not possible, Ten Hag has made Bruno captain and undroppable, untouchable. Put all his eggs in his basket and "transitional football" with a hot potato midfield that gives the ball away for fun, like it's a toy or a hot lava. And we are where we are - lost 4 of the 7 PL games, two at home. Ten Hag likely gets sacked(especially if ambitious new owners come in, which is still a possibility) and we start all over again. He disappointed me, and I had hope for him.

 

[Lyng]

It doesnt work because Casemiro will have way to much work. Bruno does a lot of defensive work but he massively lacks discipline in his movement and short passing which leads to extra work for Casemiro. Mount doesnt really do anything defensively, or at least not enough.
They can play together but the only way is to move Bruno to the right wing, put Mount at 10 and give Casemiro someone like Hannibal or Amrabat as his partner in the central midfield.

 

[Godfather]

Must be one of the worst midfield combinations we've ever had statistically. Have we won a game yet with these three starting together?

 

[lost7]

This is worse than Matic Pogba Bruno and that was already pathetically balanced

 

[Redstain]

The only way you can balance the midfield is playing a diamond but that would require another purchase in the market for a more natural 8. For ETH to have had varied success last season with the double pivot and then to start the new season with a new system its russian roulette. Maybe with two seasons of the same system which means four windows it's a safer bet to change it but the midfield is really and truly stuck and there's no wiggle room financially to amend it.

Until I see a fixture in the upcoming games where the performance clearly demonstrates structure in the middle this team will finish outside the top 5.

(20/08/23)

This has been what's undone the season undoubtedly and the level of reverb in how bad it has been is nothing short of catastrophic.

Hindsight is the benefactor now compared to foresight in August and the decision to adhere to this structure for the team has singlehandedly thrown away the season. Usually when you measure failure at management there's usually a plethora of factors that are strong contributions which aren't always in the managers control, but this season Eth has proverbially tied his shoelaces to opposing foot and proceeded to walk forward.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

This is worse than Matic Pogba Bruno and that was already pathetically balanced

Safe to say our best midfield post SAF was Matic Pogba Herrera

 

[Hammondo]

Safe to say our best midfield post SAF was Matic Pogba Herrera

Matic was super important to that midfield though, wish we had him younger.

 

[ToToMarshall]

Bruno is such a turnover machine that I think he makes playing in a midfield with a DM and another more attacking midfielder impossible at a high and sustainable level

 

[Lee565]

It may seem crazy but we should try Antony on the left of a midfield 3, we have seen plenty of wingers transition into midfielders like giggs, Anderson even, di maria when he was at madrid, Bernardo silva

his attributes seem well suited to the role, he actually quite press resistant, low centre of gravity, you can't knock his work rate and willingness to track back to not leave our midfield exposed like mount and bruno do, he has a nasty side to him which could do with at the moment in the midfield and he's a ball carrier, further more he really can't be worse than mctominay in our midfield

 

[MadMike]

Must be one of the worst midfield combinations we've ever had statistically. Have we won a game yet with these three starting together?

How many games did they even start together?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Back to Eriksen/Case pair and let Mount compete for the roles he actually plays across the front 3. Sensible if a bit boring.

 

[MO_Football92]

Play 442 diamond or 352 system. It makes sense as your wide players aren't really elite; I see Rashford more as a forward

Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Reguellion
Amrabaat
Mctominay Bruno
Mount
Houljund Rashford

Or

Onana
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Martinez
Dalot Amrabaat Mctominay Regullion
Bruno
Houlijund Rashford

You have to rotate Casemiro more, he's unable to play regularly at his age in that position.

I feel these systems would play to the players strengths more. The style of play would depend on your opponents

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Play 442 diamond or 352 system. It makes sense as your wide players aren't really elite; I see Rashford more as a forward

Onana
Dalot Varane Martinez Reguellion
Amrabaat
Mctominay Bruno
Mount
Houljund Rashford

Or

Onana
Wan-Bissaka Maguire Martinez
Dalot Amrabaat Mctominay Regullion
Bruno
Houlijund Rashford

You have to rotate Casemiro more, he's unable to play regularly at his age in that position.

I feel these systems would play to the players strengths more. The style of play would depend on your opponents

Scott McTominay shouldn't be starting in any formation predicting the best eleven. He's a useful player to have on the bench at best.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

(20/08/23)

This has been what's undone the season undoubtedly and the level of reverb in how bad it has been is nothing short of catastrophic.

Hindsight is the benefactor now compared to foresight in August and the decision to adhere to this structure for the team has singlehandedly thrown away the season. Usually when you measure failure at management there's usually a plethora of factors that are strong contributions which aren't always in the managers control, but this season Eth has proverbially tied his shoelaces to opposing foot and proceeded to walk forward.

Yup. Our midfield has become incredibly porous. It's insane when you think back to the first 3 months of the calendar year, it looked like we'd turned a corner and were finally fully functional again. Those were a fun few months.

 

[MO_Football92]

Scott McTominay shouldn't be starting in any formation predicting the best eleven. He's a useful player to have on the bench at best.

Yh, I would rotate him and Casemiro; Amrabaat being the mainstay.

You don't really have anyone else that provides the physical balance in midfield. Perhaps that kid Mainoo?

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Yh, I would rotate him and Casemiro; Amrabaat being the mainstay.

You don't really have anyone else that provides the physical balance in midfield. Perhaps that kid Mainoo?

Have you watched Amrabat? He’s shit.

 

[MadDogg]

Matic was super important to that midfield though, wish we had him younger.

All three of them were vital. Or at least players of their style. Anytime we tried to play any two of them without the third it simply ended up being unbalanced and inconsistent. But the three of them together? If I remember correctly we actually drew and lost the first two matches with that combination, but then went on to have 17 wins and 1 draw in the next 18 matches that they ever played together. No other midfield combination we've ever put out has been remotely close to that.

For some reason we never tried to build another midfield along those lines after Herrera left. Well I guess technically you could say Fred could have played the Herrera role as they were quite similar types of players, but I think the fact that all three of Matic, Fred and Pogba all tended to prefer to play on the left meant that it always struggled in the early days and I don't think it got much chances after that. Later on Matic and Fred seemed to learn how to play together, but by then Matic had declined and Bruno had taken over at the top of that combo (which is a different balance again).

 

[MadDogg]

Have you watched Amrabat? He’s shit.

From memory Amrabat didn't have a preseason, then has come into a terribly balanced midfield in a team that is playing terribly and has huge injury issues (after playing his first few games out of position at leftback). He certainly hasn't been good, but he's probably been our best midfielder in most of his games (bar Eriksen when he's come off the bench), so if he's been shit I'd hate to know what our other midfielders have been.

 

[Gordon Godot]

From memory Amrabat didn't have a preseason, then has come into a terribly balanced midfield in a team that is playing terribly and has huge injury issues (after playing his first few games out of position at leftback). He certainly hasn't been good, but he's probably been our best midfielder in most of his games (bar Eriksen when he's come off the bench), so if he's been shit I'd hate to know what our other midfielders have been.

He's woefully slow with many seeing him as unsuited to premier league, and apparently this is pretty well known and why no other top teams were interested and our scouts also passed over him. Another ex Ajax player, the only ones that ETH will sign

 

[MO_Football92]

Have you watched Amrabat? He’s shit.

He wasn't shit for Fiorentina in Europe nor at the world cup. Feel he just needs balance and continuity in the side

 

[MadDogg]

He's woefully slow with many seeing him as unsuited to premier league, and apparently this is pretty well known and why no other top teams were interested and our scouts also passed over him. Another ex Ajax player, the only ones that ETH will sign

Liverpool were strongly linked, as were another PL club (can't remember which one off the top of my head). He also never played for Ajax, although the sentiment is right as he did play under ETH at Utrecht.

I'm not saying I think he will be a success, but he also hasn't been anywhere near as bad as some are making out. Ultimately it's just too early to make a call on him, and I think there's a decent chance he'll go on to be a good squad player for us.

 

[Snow]

He's woefully slow with many seeing him as unsuited to premier league, and apparently this is pretty well known and why no other top teams were interested and our scouts also passed over him. Another ex Ajax player, the only ones that ETH will sign

Amrabat is ex-Utrecht and ex-Feyenoord. He never played for Ajax.

 

[Polar]

We have changed managers/defenders/GK/Strikers etc but some Bruno and Rashford have been main stay in this team and miraculously our play remains the same.

We need to move away from Bruno and Rashford, not because they're bad players but because we need to evolve into a modern team. But urgently Bruno needs to be moved on.

Great post about the elephant in the room.

Unfortunately Casemiro isn’t getting younger or better neither.

Regarding building a future team it’s essential that we reinforce our midfield with two players: a Rice- and Bellingham type of player - who we can benefit from in 5-10y.

I think McT and Mount are the least of our problem. They can in my view be part of our future midfield. Both have potential to develop, have many years left and demonstrate professionalism (good character and role-model for younger players). McT maybe not becomes more than a squad player, but we need that to.