Which also begs the question, knowing Bruno why in the name of reason Mount was bought when ideally we need someone who can at least retain possession and not another CAM who is very similar to Bruno.
The Casemiro/Mount/Bruno midfield
- Thread starter Malone_Post
- Start date
I have said the exact same thing about compactness of our system or lack of. Arsenal, whether they are playing two attacking players or any other combination, they are always in close proximity to each other. No player is too far from each other which create many passing options and also shields the defence. They move like one organism. They push up the numbers, stay compact and squeeze the opposition whereas we push forward, we clog up the attacking third and are always short in numbers behind leaving a huge gap between our midfield and attack with mostly Casemiro alone and when the opposition gets the ball they run free in an open field. Not only it makes us so vulnerable but also makes it difficult for us to get any fluid passing going. We start to take risks( especially with Bruno) and end up losing the ball.
There isn't many FDJ type players around.
Plus when you think Casemiro(31) and Bruno(29) the signing of Mount(24) is a long term signing.
We need to be a little patient with the midfield. Its a work in progress and the signing of Casemiro was also more of a stop gap to get the club back into the CL.
Possibly because the focus was more on pressing? That's where Mount statistically comes out on top versus Bruno, Odegaard, Havertz and indeed nearly any other attacking player in the league.
With ETH's comments about wanting us to be the best transition team and so on, it might be that his first priority was getting sufficient pressing/counter-pressing output in those advanced areas.
The other problem is....where is the back up? If we are now playing 1 DM and two 8/10's even if we get it working then where is plan B? Mount is out now. So it's McTominay? That's a whole different set up. What happens when Casemiro is out. McTominay Mount and Bruno?! That scares the fk out of me.
Another thread as a dig to Mount? Everybody is attacking the midfield but problems are higher up. Garnacho was shockingly bad in first game, not once got by Semedo. Rashford not interested, wasteful. Antony ineffective making poor decisions. Bruno wasting balls. Casemiro fitness wise not ready. And surely it is Mount's fault? Eriksen is also not up to speed anymore and a passenger. What we are badly lacking is a carrier of the ball and athletic/combative DM. And above all pa proper striker to be some kind of a focal point of attack. I really hope Hojlund can be that man. Even if not banging them in all the time but to bring others in play, occupy the defenders etc.
Tongues are being held until the end of the transfer window on that score.
That's that I was saying and going to continue to spam into oblivion.
We needed two midfielders this summer. Backup/cover/understudy to Casemiro(Caicedo, Ugarte, Lavia, Amrabat...) and deep lying press resistant ball carrier(Kouadio Kone, Khephren Thuram, Ryan Gravenberch, Matheus Nunes...) - the famous, elusive Frenkie de Jong archetype of a player.
Why Ten Hag gave up on a Frenkie-like player(deep lying ball carrier) and changed his philosophy - I don't know. Frenkie is not the only midfielder in the world that can do that kind of stuff, maybe he's just the best at it. There were/are alternatives and I don't understand what Ten Hag wants anymore out of a midfield. Where/How does he see the ball progression, beating opponents press with this current midfield?
Our midfield desperately needs press resistance, better ball retention(and thus better control of games) and some more physicality.
Aye, this depth/options issue would be more my concern than the first choice midfield per se.
Taking Arsenal's version of the same set-up as an example, if Rice got injured they could play Partey in his place. Or, as they did against City, play both in midfield. Or, as they did in their first two games of the season, play Partey as their nominal RB who in reality is an auxillary midfielder. They also have Jorginho still knocking around I think, another different profile of midfielder that would allow them even more tactical flexibility. And then the likes of Trossard, Fabio Vieira and Smith Rowe can play as the attacking #8s if Havertz/Odegaard are absent.
Whereas we're a lot more locked into Casemiro/Mount/Bruno. We don't have a Partey type midfielder to cover for Casemiro, let alone play alongside him in some bigger games. The closest would be McTominay, who I don't think many would be optimistic seeing play regularly. And in the AM spots once either Mount or Bruno are absent you're relying on Eriksen (who most of us like but isn't exactly the pressing machine that Mount is) or VDB (who it's safe to say has done little to instil confidence). And that's it, at least until Mainoo is back and if he hits the ground running as an option at PL level.
Basically I'm absolutely fine with ETH trying to make the Casemiro/Bruno/Mount midfield work, I'd just be much happier if he had a safety net behind that approach.
Exactly. Outside possession we break into two halves with Casemiro as an island between our attacking and defensive halves. In comparison aresnal are a solid block in both phases. We emulate that we'd get far superior performances and control of games.
No matter how many we buy for midfield, i always feel that we are light there..
That's why we need another DM, Casemiro can get injured or...suspended and then what?
So now Mount is injured we're left with a clearly worse midfield than last season without the option to bring in Fred and Eriksen clearly being significantly worse since his injury. Mainoo also injured. The planning for midfield has been an absolute shitshow
I mean you can't call a midfield worse than last season if it is just for a specific moment because of an injury.
Last season if Eriksen got injured, Fred came in. Now if Mount is injured, Eriksen comes in. Mainoo will be back too. Injuries cause issues, that's nothing new. We aren't desperately short, it just depends on how you rate Eriksen essentially. Either he is adequate depth or he isn't.
It's not the numbers. It's the style of football. We are trying to implement transition/high pressure football. It's not working so far. It needs games to click. But as soon as one is injured yes we can just throw someone else in but we are playing a different style of football. Eriksen is not going to press. That's why we bought Mount. So we just go back and forth between styles when we can't get one of them right?
This midfield should be transformed into Casemiro - Amrabat - Bruno with Casemiro and Amrabat in the double pivot and Bruno in his natural 10 position. Or even Casemiro in a little bit more advanced position with Amrabat shielding the space behind. It will be defensively pretty solid at least, and it will have pretty decent degree of creativity and ball progression.
I dont think that is what Ten Hag is moving towards. He looks like he wants to do what Pep was doing last year, by bringing a full back into the midfield when attacking.
Ironic that a lot of fans hated that fact that we had to play two DMs with Fred and McTominay. Now some are advocating for that again, all be it with better players.
I think it is more than likely that Casemiro and Amrabat will interchange, ETH will not give up on his tactics just like that, he considers Mount important for it.
Amrabat just means we can rest / rotate Casemiro more.
Mount will be a starter.
Mount will be a starter.
Casemiro/Mount will look a lot better once an actual striker is in the starting XI and our brand new keeper who had no prior experience in the PL settles in.
Holjund
Rashford - Antony
Bruno - Mount
Casemiro - Amrabat
Martinez - Lindelöf - Wan Bissaka
Onana
I would like to see something like that one day
The midfield 4x4 box seems interesting.
Rashford - Antony
Bruno - Mount
Casemiro - Amrabat
Martinez - Lindelöf - Wan Bissaka
Onana
I would like to see something like that one day
The midfield 4x4 box seems interesting.He isn't looking to do it, we were already doing it. Last year Shaw was often moving centrally.
It's ironic you really can't see the difference.
Once Mainoo is fit we have so many options in midfield
Amrabat will be benched for a lot of the season. Mount, Case, Bruno are the first choice whether we like it or not. As we've seen with Antony, he's unlikely to change that regardless of form or whether it's working.
Like I already said, if Casemiro keeps playing like in first few games, more than likely he will be benched instead.
It won't be if it keeps getting dismantled every game.
Not in the same way as John Stones was doing for City, allowing Gündogan and KDB to push up higher and creating the box of four midfielders.
Show me a time that Shaw has done this....
Ten Hag was never doing that with United last year. Tried it v Wolves and left us wide open.
Ironic that you cant see there difference there.
Ok it's Dalot in an example I could quickly find, but this isn't similar? I never said we did it the same way, just that we already (ok not all the time) were brining a full back inside when were attacking.Not in the same way as John Stones was doing for City, allowing Gündogan and KDB to push up higher and creating the box of four midfielders.
Show me a time that Shaw has done this....
Ten Hag was never doing that with United last year. Tried it v Wolves and left us wide open.
Ironic that you cant see there difference there.
And when I said about ironic, I was referring to Fred and McTominay not this.
Last edited:
With the Amrabat deal, once Mount and Mainoo are fit we are suddenly looking stronger in midfield.
Casamiro Erikson Bruno Mount Amrabat Mainoo (mcT if not sold)
Casamiro Erikson Bruno Mount Amrabat Mainoo (mcT if not sold)
One swallow doesn't make a summer.Ok it's Dalot in an example I could quickly find, but this isn't similar? I never said we did it the same way, just that we already (ok not all the time) were brining a full back inside when were attacking.
And when I said about ironic, I was referring to Fred and McTominay not this.
City are playing constantly in this way. United, by chance.
You're far more likely to see Dalot or Shaw on the flanks, whereas Stones is consistently in the midfield when on the ball.
It just doesn't work. We get into these phases where Casemiro is the highest one out of the three as well.
I don't get how anyone, let alone our manager, thought it would.
All three are weak under pressure. You can't trust any of them to keep the ball from a press.
Casemiro cannot cover the amount of ground needed to compensate for two 10s.
None of them can control a game because of their loose passing and physical weaknesses.
Casemiro is too prone to vacating his position by venturing forwards, and neither Bruno or Mount can rotate and efficiently play the deep role so it leaves us more unbalanced than usual.
There is literally nothing that suggests that this would have ever worked.
Amrabat, Casemiro, Bruno
Amrabat, Casemiro, Mount
Make it Mainoo (when he gets back) Gore and Mejbri for all I care, I just dont want to see Erik's preferred midfield again.
Cas will have to be the forward passer in this one as that clearly isn't Amrabat's game.
Mount should be playing deeper and Bruno should be the attacking midfielder, or shifted to right wing for now. Maybe, I don't know how this was supposed to work in ETH head.
It's interesting that Casemiro isn't even playing holding position in this setup. I have many questions to our manager.
It's interesting that Casemiro isn't even playing holding position in this setup. I have many questions to our manager.
Its like the players themselves don’t know what to do. Casemiro is the most forward, Mount barely touches the ball. Its a massive feck up, the only reason we are trying to make it work is Mount
Should be binned immediately or it would cost ETH his job.
Should be binned immediately or it would cost ETH his job.
Mount isn't a CM, and ETH bafflingly insisting on pretending he is will cost him his job.
He's completely lost me at this point. I have no faith anymore that he has the slightest clue what he's doing and its pretty much entirely down to this issue, because it's just so bleedin obvious.
I'm not even sure what Mount is since he literally doesn't do anything,but if there's one position where you can't get away with that it's in midfield.
He's completely lost me at this point. I have no faith anymore that he has the slightest clue what he's doing and its pretty much entirely down to this issue, because it's just so bleedin obvious.
I'm not even sure what Mount is since he literally doesn't do anything,but if there's one position where you can't get away with that it's in midfield.
Take Bruno out and put Hannibal in. When Mainoo is fit pair him with Case and play mount further forward.