The Daredevil Draft R1 | Jim Beam vs BorisDeLaFora

With all players at their peak, which team do you think would win this game?


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harms

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------------------------------ JIM BEAM ----------------------------------------------------- BORISDELAFORA --------------------------------------

Jim Beam's write up:

Tactics: 4-3-3, high press, high possession, and structured attack; players interchanging position during the attack.

Style of play: Emphasis not only on possession for the sake of it but on hurting the other team while being in possession through the gaps that open up. Continued defensive pressing once the ball is lost and the team must act as a collective in both phases of the game.


The main idea: Beat power with brain, passing, and technique

Pep Guardiola:
I hate tiki-taka. I always will. I want nothing more to do with tiki-taka. Tiki-taka is a load of shit, a made-up term. It means passing the ball for the sake of passing, with no real aim or aggression - nothing. I will not allow my brilliant players to fall for all that rubbish
I put Pep quotes simply because most will identify this team with a famous tiki-taka style while even he thought it was a load of crap. And tbf, it was, it wasn't Barcelona fault that the other team didn't open up most of the times even when they were 2 or 3 up or that it was easier in those moments to keep the ball.

Defensive phase - high and Early Press, deny space for the other team

Front three press the backline trying to force the mistake from the opponent and get the ball early. The central midfielders cover if the opposition gets passed the first wave being also very aggressive trying to secure the ball as fast as they can.

As a result, the other team usually gets penned back.

Attacking phase – constant movement, getting forward in numbers

Support the attacking three with numbers playing quick one-touch passing always trying to find the gaps and opening in the other defence. Force the opposition on one side of the field and then provide quick passes to exploit the weaker area on the other side of the opponent.


Personel

Franco Baresi
lifts this team to a whole another level in the defensive sense and there is no need for his introduction. He is the greatest defender of all time with a complementary partnership in Vincent Kompany. They are joined with Jose Antonio Camacho and Vladimir Bessonov completing the backline. One a bit more adventurous and one a bit more reserved, but both fully capable of contributing in both phases of the game The team also needed a physical, disciplined, holding presence at the base of the midfield with excellent passing ability. Not many better players suited for the role than Valery Voronin.

The attack is rounded with one of the greatest wingers/inside forwards in world history in Tom Finney and Samuel Eto'o who is a perfect striker for this set up stretching the other defence, opening gaps, capable of creating as well as scoring.


Conclusion

It is meant to represent Xavi and Iniesta the best possible platform to dominate the game or freedom to go play, create and work their magic.

It is somewhat ridiculous that almost 18 years from now and after their debut together most experts thought they can't play together and that they are actually luxury players. A fun, but not especially productive partnership. After Rijkaard and Ronaldinho era finished, while being heavily recognized as top players, their time was only about to come with no one expecting what is coming actually. The best midfield partnership of all time.



“People used to ask ‘Xavi or Iniesta?’ and Pep would say ‘Xavi and Iniesta’,” Lorenzo Buenaventura, Guardiola’s assistant, explained in Iniesta’s biography The Artist. “Both of them. Not one or the other. Together always. People said they couldn’t play together, but that’s not true. They shouldn’t be played apart.”


The team is also built with every single player being fully committed to understanding the importance of playing as a collective and not as an individual.

BorisDeLaFora's write-up:

Team Philosophy

'You play football with your head, and your legs are there to help you'

This side would emphasise strong defensive stability and discipline, percentage balls, tactical fouls, time wasting, quick counter attacks at precise moments, and high set piece conversion rates.

The formation is a 4-4-1-1.

The defensive shape would involve two narrow banks of four holding a deep defensive line, with the AMC man marking the opposing deepest lying midfielder. The aim is to frustrate the opposition playing through the middle and to force them wide, where this team would have a big advantage dealing with balls into the box.

In attack the team will look to feed off a target man with powerful runners from deep working off him, as well as utilising the wings to get good deliveries into the box.

GK/DEF
Ederson is a good keeper, certainly not world class, and certainly weak in terms of an all time draft. However he can boot a kick out to within 10 yards of the opposition box handily enough, where the likes of Bale, Gullit, and Charles, all exceptional headers of the ball, would work off each other with Robson and Beckham in support.

The back four more or less contains two stoppers at full back, who will be instructed to stay narrow. Both have a decent range of passing and will be encouraged to play long diagonal balls up the field. Stam and Hierro are a decent combination of stopper and ball playing CB. Hierro on the ball will be key in playing accurate passes forward to my attackers into feet, a key attacking alternative.

MID
With a massive back 4 the central midfield duo of Robson and Mascherano offers a balance of low centre of gravity and high energy in central midfield, whilst maintaining good strength and toughness. Mascherano will hold midfield whilst Robson will be given a bit more license to get forward. A key feature of what made Robson so great was his ability to time his runs forward, and this poses a huge threat as Charles and Gullit should be able to take in and lay off a good percentage of the balls they receive.
Bale will be playing in his destroying Maicon role, using his running ability to get up and down the pitch and combining it with his excellent crossing and shooting technique. His height and aerial ability also allow him to perform the role of a wide target man, offering a different point for Ramos and Beckham to switch play, and more importantly, getting in at the back post when Beckham receives the ball in an attacking position. Beckham will do what Beckham did, put quality deliveries into the box.

FWD
With the ball Gullit will look to get close to Charles and look to rotate their roles as the main target man. Their main duty will be to get on the end of Beckham's crosses.

Attacking set Pieces
Beckham delivering to any combination of Charles, Gullit, Bale, Ramos, Hierro, Stam, Briegel, and Robson. Would probably make up 80% of the training sessions.


Good luck @Jim Beam @BorisDeLeFora
 

Jim Beam

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I will soon go to bed, but Bale was a fantastic pick for a 12th round @BorisDeLeFora. Absolute poison for the Barcelona set up for example in Copa del rei.

I would play Drogba also ahead though, but lovely team.

All that said, it would be a scrap. I would love Suarez Miramontes in that set up or a playmaker. Anyway, good luck @BorisDeLeFora
 

Jim Beam

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Ramos is in as a right back here not a left CB where he was at his peak.

I was thinking EURO 2008 and the 2010 world cup. But without the pointless dribbles and chop thing.
Yeah, I watched the Euro 2008 as that was my first inspiration. Ramos was brilliant in the role as RB.

I praised you enough :wenger:, I still think that midfield takes away the battle and it will be dominant.
 

Šjor Bepo

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i was actually hoping its a CB version of Ramos so you add a GOAT presence on set-pieces(which was my plan in last draft in case we faced the midgets of joga and theon though gio didnt like the idea :D).
 

BorisDeLeFora

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Looking at the teams mine would be lucky to get 35% possession, it would be a proper backs to the wall performance for the most part.

Xavi-Iniesta-Silva :drool:
 

Jim Beam

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i was actually hoping its a CB version of Ramos so you add a GOAT presence on set-pieces(which was my plan in last draft in case we faced the midgets of joga and theon though gio didnt like the idea :D).
Seriously, he was fantastic in Euro 2008. Looks a great fit here.

Looking at the teams mine would be lucky to get 35% possession, it would be a proper backs to the wall performance for the most part.

Xavi-Iniesta-Silva :drool:
Barcelona was the most vulnerable through the flanks (Bale!) and through set pieces and you have one of the best crosser. That said, not sure if that was the plan, Barcelona had like 5 fouls on average in the league, 7 for example in that CL final against United, all of them far away from dangerous zone (aside Ronaldo one in the first 10 minutes).
 

BorisDeLeFora

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i was actually hoping its a CB version of Ramos so you add a GOAT presence on set-pieces(which was my plan in last draft in case we faced the midgets of joga and theon though gio didnt like the idea :D).
That was the initial plan, I was gonna stick Hierro in as a DM, but I was worried how he would work in cm against a load of GOAT midgets and felt I needed a Mascherano type in there who could match the sharp turns and movements.
 

Šjor Bepo

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That was the initial plan, I was gonna stick Hierro in as a DM, but I was worried how he would work in cm against a load of GOAT midgets and felt I needed a Mascherano type in there who could match the sharp turns and movements.
nah, id actually play the CB version as a defensive fullback so Hierro would keep his place in the middle of that defence.
 

Jim Beam

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As for Finney (@harms and @GodShaveTheQueen) I wanted to get another goalscoring option. By all what I've seen Finney was more of a winger on the right, more of goal threat on the left. I also remember harms putting him on the left in Guardiola remake. But, most importantly I really like him in this system.

Finney was no show pony, there was a point to everything he did on a football field. Unlike others of similar ability, and many of less, he never kept possession if a colleague was better placed. Finney realised his job was to get the ball in the oppositions' goal, either by assisting a teammate or by putting it there himself.
I also put Silva on the right as there he was in Spain and did brilliantly.
 

Jim Beam

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The biggest manipulator of space and time that football has ever seen. And the biggest dilemma was will I pair him with Iniesta as crazy as that sound as they naturally come together. At first, I wanted to get him out of the comfort zone a bit, but you leaving Iniesta to be freely pick was too much of temptation.

GOAT midfielder, GOAT defender and a bit fecked up manager! Cheerio!
 

Šjor Bepo

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The biggest manipulator of space and time that football has ever seen. And the biggest dilemma was will I pair him with Iniesta as crazy as that sound as they naturally come together. At first, I wanted to get him out of the comfort zone a bit, but you leaving Iniesta to be freely pick was too much of temptation.

GOAT midfielder, GOAT defender and a bit fecked up manager! Cheerio!
:drool:
 

Jim Beam

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@Jim Beam any reason you didn't complete that midfield with Busquets?
Started to build with Spain 2008 in mind and Marcos Senna was brilliant in that role. Arogones was among the first that realized the importance of a holder behind Xavi and Iniesta. Before they even tried to put together Xavi, Iniesta and Deco midfield at Barca. And Arogones changed it and went for Senna to free both Xavi and Iniesta.

I also had to go with a draft logic that Busquets would be killed against a GOAT number 10 which is doubtful. The closest thing to free the midfield, give protection to backline and still stay inside their zone was Voronin which is way I went for him in round 2. And putting Xavi - Iniesta - Busquets is a bit boring. Closest thing that I could find was Voronin.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I have a healthy appreciation for Busquets after our game against them. I think he plays a vital cog which elevated the entire midfield.

Can understand the Voronin pick, but in this game I think Busquets (or Senna) would have been more awesome than Voronin.
 

Jim Beam

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I have a healthy appreciation for Busquets after our game against them. I think he plays a vital cog which elevated the entire midfield.

Can understand the Voronin pick, but in this game I think Busquets (or Senna) would have been more awesome than Voronin.
You can't say Senna would be better than Voronin though. Quick, delete the second part!
 

Jim Beam

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I have a healthy appreciation for Busquets after our game against them. I think he plays a vital cog which elevated the entire midfield.

Can understand the Voronin pick, but in this game I think Busquets (or Senna) would have been more awesome than Voronin.
You have a healthy appreciation for Busquets? And Senna would be more awesome than Voronin?

Debatable Edgar, debatable!!!
 

Jim Beam

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Nothing bad against Voronin, but just give it a point for proven partnership.
No problem Edgar, as above Fergie would take Mascherano of all people.

On a serious note, am open to other suggestion. Also, this team was meant to play a bit more direct. But never, ever Senna would be better than Voronin. I mean he was my 2nd pick and that would mean am plain dumb.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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No problem Edgar, as above Fergie would take Mascherano of all people.

On a serious note, am open to other suggestion. Also, this team was meant to play a bit more direct. But never, ever Senna would be better than Voronin. I mean he was my 2nd pick and that would mean am plain dumb.
Nothing man, love your attack though I can't forgive you from stealing Finney who I really wanted. Great team.

Tough game this.

As to Boris team, I don't rate Bale that highly. Would prefer Barnes and still couple others I like better there. Rest of team is spot on. Love Gullit's role. Mascherano would get some stick in here, but not in this match.
 

Jim Beam

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You saying I should vote for him? :D
No, I say that flanks are the way to go in these tactics and a bit more open foot. If the first way of pressing doesn't work they would be free, even encouraged to go forward as I want my front three with as much space as possible on the counter-attack. That is the very reason I have you in the top 5 for example ( didn't vote based on the strength, but more who I wouldn't like to face) as I would certainly rather go against Bale than Garrincha/Cafu.

But, if the other side, admits they will soak up the pressure or give me the ball it is a game lost imo. If he had GOAT fullbacks along with Beckham/Bale it would be much better. As much as I liked Ramos in Euro 2008 he isn't on the required level in the attacking sense. Gullit is a nice fit though. On the other hand, Charles not so much despite Beckham.

In short, midgets will run circles here.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Charles not so much
Why not? Because he is from the 50’s? :)

But, if the other side, admits they will soak up the pressure or give me the ball it is a game lost imo.
I think history is evidence that it is the only way to beat that Barcelona midfield. Not saying that Boris might be able to do it as I have just opened the thread and hardly have a read, but if a soak the pressure counter attacking team isn’t the way to go, what is in your opinion?
 

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Why not? Because he is from the 50’s?
Because he is more of the heavily loaded trunk from all I've seen. And I would prefer someone more agile in that sense. Kocsis would be much better for example.

I think history is evidence that it is the only way to beat that Barcelona midfield. Not saying that Boris might be able to do it as I have just opened the thread and hardly have a read, but if a soak the pressure counter attacking team isn’t the way to go, what is in your opinion?
Absolutely not. Liverpool is the perfect way to beat them (go with even more aggressivity and attack them). Chelsea is once in a lifetime and would go for Barcelona 9 out of 10 times. Even Inter played on the front foot at San Siro before they were left with 10 men at Camp Nou. The midfield playmaker is also essential.
 

Jim Beam

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I am sorry, but you are completely misinformed then.
Ok, he isn't a heavily loaded truck, but he isn't also a flying striker. You are completely misinformed and in the wrong, if you think that the answer is to put 10 men behind the ball and counter. Btw, why Ederson if you go that way? You need to apply pressure on the backline to prevent them to start an easy build-up. Once you allowed them to do so, they will run the game. Charles (again) isn't the man to do so.

Robson? Gullit? :confused:
Come on, they are great, but you wouldn't call them playmakers.
 

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Beam's team looks like a really good possession-based side, which is no easy feat to achieve - I'd expect it to be more direct than Pep's Barca on account of some players, but that has proven to work fine as well. Also nice that Finney's profile has risen recently, and according to the latest consensus he should be great there. What can be expected from the FBs in terms of attacking contributions & fluid ball circulation (beyond what's in the OP, especially regarding fast & precise passing)?

Boris' side seems well-designed too for the approach described in his OP. Offensively, I think it's crucial how well Charles fits into the team. (@GodShaveTheQueen, can you expand on your last remark?) I agree that a more offensive RB would have been beneficial, as it would give Beckham another option in moving to RCM & playing him through when an opportunity arises on the break. But the left side offers that threat with Briegel, and an asymmetric setup with a defensive FB has its advantages as well.

Pretty cool matchup, Boris can certainly hurt Beam and vice versa. Will wait for more discussions.
 
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I actually think Ederson is a perfect fit, he can spray long passes up to Gullit and Charles with ease and bypass the press much better than most other GKs.
 

Jim Beam

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I think history is evidence that it is the only way to beat that Barcelona midfield. Not saying that Boris might be able to do it as I have just opened the thread and hardly have a read, but if a soak the pressure counter attacking team isn’t the way to go, what is in your opinion?
Manolo Jiménez
Sevilla (until 24 March)


Beat Barcelona 2-1 on 5 January 2010

"
The key idea we had was to pile the pressure on their defenders and not allow them to bring the ball out of the back. We wanted to make sure that they didn't get the ball to their playmakers – we tried to stop him receiving and playing. We played with great intensity and really went for them. We were close together in the middle but quick to get the ball wide when we attacked. You can never relax against Barcelona because they are the best side in the world. We showed courage, competitiveness and quality. You have to work very hard and not give up a single ball for lost. We conceded one goal because of a lapse of concentration but we were able to overcome that fortunately."
I never agreed with people that we went for the wrong tactics in 2009. We just didn't have the legs in midfield to go against them (we lost the final at the very moment Fletcher got the red card) and Park was a bit of headless chicken. Rooney deciding he will have the worst game of his life also didn't help.

Also, who are you to argue against the great Manolo Jiménez??
 

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@Jim Beam I'm surprised Bergkamp is not playing as a false 9 with Eto'o on the right. I always liked that Barca side with the Villa, Messi and Pedro front three as it provided great penetration follwoing the work of the passing machine. I think David Silva is somewhat redundant on the right ahead of that midfield.
 

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Agree with the above comment on Silva. I'd like to have seen a more mobile player there at the very least. At this point I see him being another cog in the team to keep possession, but that's not really the challenge here against this opposition.
 

Jim Beam

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@Jim Beam I'm surprised Bergkamp is not playing as a false 9 with Eto'o on the right. I always liked that Barca side with the Villa, Messi and Pedro front three as it provided great penetration follwoing the work of the passing machine. I think David Silva is somewhat redundant on the right ahead of that midfield.
Bergkamp was an option depending on the opponent, but I was never completely sold and he would be harder to sell. Law, Elkjaer, Eto'o are all better options the way they played....

Silva is at home in this tactic. Not sure why you say redundant as he won everything playing this very set up. If people don't rate him in this role, they never will. Bergkamp never really played false 9, he was much more direct in his Ajax years for example and if you put one direct attacker here like Eto'o than I would prefer someone like Silva. Finney is the one am curious how will people rate here.
 

Jim Beam

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Agree with the above comment on Silva. I'd like to have seen a more mobile player there at the very least. At this point I see him being another cog in the team to keep possession, but that's not really the challenge here against this opposition.
Erm, he had a very good goal record for Spain.

You have a direct striker in Eto'o, cog to keep it ticking in Silva and a bit of a free spirit in Finney. And I don't like Eto'o in this set up on the wing with a proper number 9.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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You are completely misinformed and in the wrong, if you think that the answer is to put 10 men behind the ball and counter
Me and Arrigo Sacchi both :)


Offensively, I think it's crucial how well Charles fits into the team. (@GodShaveTheQueen, can you expand on your last remark?)
He was agile enough and heavily involved in the build up as well. Was called the gentle giant for a reason. Looked like your typical English tall physical No.9 but hardly played like one.

Come on, they are great, but you wouldn't call them playmakers.
I wouldn't say either was a specialist playmaker but played that role as well as part of their all round game. Someone like Suarez just makes it more obvious and visible on paper.
 

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Regarding Sevilla and Barca 2010, I don't recollect the match but just checking on transfermarkt, below was what the bench looked like. They lost 4-0, 10 days later once Barcelona played the proper first team. Not a great example. For me Pool's press is still a good example, but I would say it's still vulnerable. I would still prefer a 10 men behind the ball setup against that midfield.

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