The Deadwoods Assassinated by Babyface

[Kush]

No idea who this egg is, but interesting take:

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There could be some truth to it. Both Herrera and Valencia left this summer, their wages were freed up. Lukaku and Sanchez have been sold too along with Smalling. That's a very sizable portion of wage bill cleared up. I doubt if AWB or James are on big money. Maguire must be somewhere between what Smalling and Lukaku earned.

I honestly don't know how to read into this clearout. On one hand I am happy because this was long overdue but on the other we've only brought 3 new players in which leaves us extremely short on quality and numbers for the long season ahead.

 

[romufc]

I mean what's your point? Because James had a promising first three games there's no difference between Championship footballers and top 4? I'm not saying that Jones is necessarily a worse footballer than Smalling, I just find it risky to rely on someone who has been so very injury prone in the past.




I named Wijnaldum as I had also named four players for the other clubs, but whether you want to include him or not doesn't really change anything about the point I'm making, does it?

Salah came with CL experience and off of two good seasons with Roma, Son was a starter for Leverkusen and played two CL campaigns with them, so yeah, I had heard about him.

I'm not so sure either Rashford or Martial would be starting for all those clubs, at times people on the caf don't even appear to be certain whether they should start for United.

My point is that, just because they played in Championship doesn't mean they are not good enough. Roberston was signed from a championship team.

No because Liverpool's 4th attacker is Origi, then Shaqiri not WIjnaldum. So Alexis came with a big reputation, so did Fred.. they haven't delivered. Also, Son delivered after a season or two.

Can you please show my links to where fans have questioned whethere Rashford or Martial shouldn't start for us?

 

[GloryHunter07]

I dont agree that Herrera was deadwood.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

While playing Lingard as a holding midfielder is possibly the worst idea ever, height is not the issue. He's about as tall as Fernandinho or Makelele, and way taller than Kante. Don't be a Mourinho.

No no, I was merely just describing Jesse Lingard, to make sure the Jesse Lingard he's talking about is the same Jesse Lingard that plays for us.

 

[Lynty]

Not really i would get rid of Jones over Smalling any day and players like young and Matic Darmian Jones should of been first to bite the dust . It is a start however but going about it in the wrong order i would of taken sanchez over playing lingard personally and the fact Jesse is english is the only thing he has in his locker .

Let's be clear. Smalling Jones are probably 4-6th choice CBs this season. Their salaries are approx the same, so we were happy to let one of them go. It just happened Roma was more interested in Smalling. We can't force Phil Jones on clubs.

Young is obviously an asset to the dressing room and can cover both full back positions. Why would you get rid of him, and to where?

Lingard is on £5m per year with no associated transfer fees. It would be absurd to get rid of a valuable squad player like that.
Replacing him with someone a bit better in a similar wage bracket, let's say Lemina, Grealish or Brooks is gonna cost us £30-40m transfer fee plus a salary of £5m per year on top.

So for a similar output, we're tripling our expenditure over the next four years on 1 squad position because some fans don't like Lingard.

Obsurd reasoning.

 

[romufc]

No, that’s not why they alter. It might be in some cases, but pre tax and post tax will not throw up half a dozen different figures. All four ‘reports’ offer the grand total of zero sources. Those reports that do offer sources, overwhelmingly refer to The Sun. Your ‘reports’ are no more believable than the reports that say he demanded close to £200k a week, and are less credible than when reporters like Castles put their name to a statement sternly denying said reports.

You need me to do this? There has been discussed here countless times and there are several websites that can accommodate it if you want to tally up the total up the figures yourself. Use the search function, use a player matrix.

Typical straw man. In a paragraph where I state several points, you pick up on one and say ‘just because PSG wanted him.’ No it isn’t ‘just’ that reason at all, hence why the paragraph had several points to support my argument in it? Besides, I don’t believe Moting is on ‘£350k’ a week, do you?

I don't get what your trying here, he was clearly offered a huge contract by PSG which is way more than United's offer. United changed their policy so instead of offering big contracts to ageing players, find young players and develop them.

Yes I do, well I am not doing your work for you. You mentioned that Herrera is one of the best ball winners in the world based on stats which I have not seen. I don't care about people's opinion. If you are going to make such a statement, prove it or don't make it. Even the Sun wouldn't call Herrera the best ball winner.

I did not say Moting is on £350k did I? you mentioned they are in for Herrera means he is good? No that is not true, they needed a backup midfielder, they didn't want to spend money so they signed someone on free. Let's see how many games he actually starts.

 

[Siorac]

No no, I was merely just describing Jesse Lingard, to make sure the Jesse Lingard he's talking about is the same Jesse Lingard that plays for us.

Oh, yes, sorry. I did not consider the possibility that there might be another one, who happens to be a brilliant holding midfielder. It's not any less likely than our Lingard being a good option for the position.

 

[Vault Dweller]

With the news of Smalling going on loan to Roma, it seems as though Ole is the one who finally clears out our deadwood. The following have been sold/loaned out since Ole arrived:

Fellaini
Herrera
Valencia
Lukaku
Sanchez
Smalling

To follow:
Jones
Rojo
Darmian

Are you happy with the clear out? Are you happy the players are leaving but annoyed with the lack of incoming players?

Really pleased to see the deadwood finally being shifted and more than happy to accept a season where we might struggle but the players on bloated wages who aren't playing / good enough for the side be shifted on. It's a positive in my book.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

True, but he still isn't worth the amount of money he was asking for. PSG are paying a ridiculous salary for a 30-year-old midfielder whose legs are almost gone and will miss half of the season recovering from muscle injuries. Better that he leave now than stick around for another few years and become another Matic.

It would have been better to get rid of Matic whose legs are already gone and keep Herrera.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Isn't the plural of deadwood still deadwood? Much deer, Moose, sheep or Jedi?

I personally think there was always a role for Fellaini, solely as a plan B. It may just be in my romanticised memory of the big fella, but didn't he net you quite a few late comebacks? Just before he left I was also finally very sure his name is Fellaini and not Felaini.

 

[Foxbatt]

This is crazy. Smalling is not 4th choice. Smalling is after Maguire and Lindelof and with Lindelof losing confidence and Bailly injured people are thinking that Tuanzabe is going to come in and take over the PL by storm. It is not going to happen that way. If you get rid of Rojo or Jones yes but Smalling is a good defender and we need him especially with this squad. How many of you remember Carrick forced to play as CB. Injuries could come thick and fast.
There are other players who should have been moved before Smalling. This is not clearing of deadwood but terrible management.

 

[Lynty]

There could be some truth to it. Both Herrera and Valencia left this summer, their wages were freed up. Lukaku and Sanchez have been sold too along with Smalling. That's a very sizable portion of wage bill cleared up. I doubt if AWB or James are on big money. Maguire must be somewhere between what Smalling and Lukaku earned.

I honestly don't know how to read into this clearout. On one hand I am happy because this was long overdue but on the other we've only brought 3 new players in which leaves us extremely short on quality and numbers for the long season ahead.

Our wage bill and squad is bloated. Simple as.

We don't have the quality in certain positions, but hoarding average players isn't going to improve that.




In relation to OP:

I'm really happy. It makes good business and football sense to trim down the squad considering our current league stature.

Still more to go, and hoepfully it's forces a strong window next year

 

[2mufc0]

Should be done but without signing a couple of replacements atleast will end in disaster.

 

[do.ob]

My point is that, just because they played in Championship doesn't mean they are not good enough. Roberston was signed from a championship team.

I wouldn't say that Tuanzebe can't develop into a good player, but I wouldn't expect him to be a reliable player should injuries put him into the first team.

No because Liverpool's 4th attacker is Origi, then Shaqiri not WIjnaldum. So Alexis came with a big reputation, so did Fred.. they haven't delivered. Also, Son delivered after a season or two.

I was listing players who are (more or less) starters, because I was looking at the starting lineups. What's the point in comparing United's starters to other club's bench players?

Don't really get the point of your examples? Yeah, Sanchez flopped and Fred might be about to join him, but what's your point here?

Can you please show my links to where fans have questioned whethere Rashford or Martial shouldn't start for us?

For example:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-it-time-to-burst-“rashy’s”-bubble.446434/

 

[Smores]

Really pleased to see the deadwood finally being shifted and more than happy to accept a season where we might struggle but the players on bloated wages who aren't playing / good enough for the side be shifted on. It's a positive in my book.

You value getting rid of players more than winning football games? How strange.

Personally i don't care who goes i care who comes in, if the former is needed to perform the latter fine otherwise why would i care.

 

[Lynty]

It would have been better to get rid of Matic whose legs are already gone and keep Herrera.

Where is Matic going?

And his salary is half of what Herrera wanted. Herrera also wasn't happy with a short contract deal. He's securing his salary for his last years as a footballer, which is a sensible thing to do.

Wouldn't be sensible for us to meet his demands. Because in 2 years you'd be saying we need to offload him and who's going to want an ageing CM on £250k per week when we can't even get rid of Matic

 

[Vault Dweller]

You value getting rid of players more than winning football games? How strange.

Personally i don't care who goes i care who comes in, if the former is needed to perform the latter fine otherwise why would i care.

Not that I value it more, not at all. It's that I appreciate it will be a difficult season with a lot of pressure on some of the younger players to perform all season long. And that while we may struggle and it could be a difficult season, I'm happy to be along for the ride while many of the players who aren't good enough or stealing a living have been moved on or won't get a look in now.

 

[royboy16]

Should have been done a long time ago.
Hopefully some of the youth we are trusting will come good for us.

 

[Ødegaard]

I've a strong feeling this'll be exactly like when LVG 'cleared out the deadwood' from the notoriously 'awful' (title-winning) squad Fergie left behind.

i.e. A good half of the players some of you are delighted to be getting rid of will prove to have been substantially superior to those who we replace them with and we'll continue to get worse.

Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez and Valencia will indeed be hard to replace on the pitch.

Smalling going is likely because he is the only one of Rojo, Jones and Bailly with any value, and he is awful on the ball which doesn't fit in with modern football.

Herrera decided to leave, the club reportedly offered him a new deal for 2 years before he left. No hate to Herrera, but it certainly wasn't that the club wanted to get rid of him.

 

[ivaldo]

I don't get what your trying here, he was clearly offered a huge contract by PSG which is way more than United's offer. United changed their policy so instead of offering big contracts to ageing players, find young players and develop them.

Yes I do, well I am not doing your work for you. You mentioned that Herrera is one of the best ball winners in the world based on stats which I have not seen. I don't care about people's opinion. If you are going to make such a statement, prove it or don't make it. Even the Sun wouldn't call Herrera the best ball winner.

I did not say Moting is on £350k did I? you mentioned they are in for Herrera means he is good? No that is not true, they needed a backup midfielder, they didn't want to spend money so they signed someone on free. Let's see how many games he actually starts.

Clearly you don’t. Read your original post and then read my response. You’ve literally said we offered him a contract. Does really fit into your little theory does it?

It’s not my work. You made the claim he wont be missed, not me. But you want me to provide evidence, evidence that you can find with a cursory search on this very forum, yet won’t provide any of your own. ‘Let’s flip it.’ Show me the evidence to support your claim.

No I said said that PSG being in for him, along with all those other points I made shows he’s valued. What you did, was ignore all those other points I made, and claim I ‘just’ said PSG being in for him made him good. Big difference. You made a direct comparison between Moting and Herrera. I demonstrated why it was a ridiculous comparison.

 

[El Zoido]

This is crazy. Smalling is not 4th choice. Smalling is after Maguire and Lindelof and with Lindelof losing confidence and Bailly injured people are thinking that Tuanzabe is going to come in and take over the PL by storm. It is not going to happen that way. If you get rid of Rojo or Jones yes but Smalling is a good defender and we need him especially with this squad. How many of you remember Carrick forced to play as CB. Injuries could come thick and fast.
There are other players who should have been moved before Smalling. This is not clearing of deadwood but terrible management.

He’s dump, no better than anyone else in reserve, and symptomatic of the mediocrity that has plagued the club for years now. I’m just disappointed the move isn’t permanent.

 

[tenpoless]

No idea who this egg is, but interesting take:

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Yeah right and We gave 5 years contract for Jones, paid shit ton for Maguire and agreed to pay 5 million worth of Sanchez's wages at Inter while Pogba is still here. Not exactly trimming is it? I believe We are starting to shift our focus to getting rid of players We don't need because We might as well try young players to fill their positions. It's very logical, Ole seemed to fancy Jones more than Smalling as well. Not that I think the Glazers don't want more money but the motive behind this isn't trimming nor saving money, it doesn't make sense.

 

[Edy2]

In fairness, Under Jose we got rid of Depay, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Valdes, Rooney, Januzaj, McNair, Varela and Mkhi over 2 summer windows.

Under LVG we got rid of Welbeck, Nani, Cleverley, Buttner, Hernandez, Fletcher, Bebe, Kagawa, Zaha, Evans and Rafael.

Now, in hindsight not all of these would necessarily be thought of as "deadwood", but at the time no-one was overly upset to see them go.

My point is, we've seen huge shifts in personnel under all our managers after Moyes, and each time we've lauded them for clearing out the clutter. I'm not saying Ole isn't doing this, but our recent record would suggest that we show caution before assuming this is definitely happening.

I think it did happen each time but we just replaced the clutter with more more expensive clutter.

The point here is we need to start identifying the right quality players for the system and buy them and not just buy quantity for the sake of it. Ole has done well in this regard with the players that he has signed so far. People have been clamoring for more signings but I think the approach of waiting until the correct players like Sancho or whoever become available is the way to go. It will take time to build the first 11 we need but we have to learn from past mistakes and not fall into the trap of amassing deadwood again to appease fans.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Where is Matic going?

And his salary is half of what Herrera wanted. Herrera also wasn't happy with a short contract deal. He's securing his salary for his last years as a footballer, which is a sensible thing to do.

Wouldn't be sensible for us to meet his demands. Because in 2 years you'd be saying we need to offload him and who's going to want an ageing CM on £250k per week when we can't even get rid of Matic

Hopefully Matic goes when his contract expires at the end of the season. Although I have read reports he is not happy now. I don't think they should have let Herrera get towards the end of his contract whilst giving new contracts to deadwood. We could have put him on a two year contract and left him leave for free when it expires. I would rather Herrera about contributing than having Matic about doing nothing.

 

[LoneStar]

This is good news, yes. But selling players and not replacing them is a bad idea.

Credit to Ole for backing up his statement about deadwood. But Woodward failed to get the players we need though.

I'm not sure about the Smalling one. Honestly think he's our 2nd/3rd best centerback. We should have sold the likes of Rojo, Jones and Darmian first. But it could be that no one was interested in buying them.

 

[RussellWilson]

All well and good but will the club pull out the finger and get the right replacements in and will players want to sign if we miss out on CL football?

I'm worried this will end in more tears.

 

[davidmichael]

Including Smalling it’ll be Smalling, Sanchez, Lukaku, Fellaini, Valencia and Herrera all gone with Young, Darmian, Rojo, Bailly, Matic and Mata all dropped so Ole is keeping up his end but the board aren’t doing their bit as only Wan-Bisakka, Maguire and James came in.

We’ve got a potentially great core of young players in Henderson, Laird, Tuanzebe, Williams, Garner, McTominay, Gomes, Chong and Greenwood and I’ve no doubt they’ll all play a part this season but that’s a lot of pressure on that group to perform to the level we need as we need to finish top four to progress next season and bring in the players needed to do that.

 

[Sterling Archer]

No idea who this egg is, but interesting take:

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I believe this because it fits my agenda. Hate Edwood and the Glazers. Get them out.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Happy with the clear out, unhappy with the mitigations.

 

[Grande]

Hopefully Matic goes when his contract expires at the end of the season. Although I have read reports he is not happy now. I don't think they should have let Herrera get towards the end of his contract whilst giving new contracts to deadwood. We could have put him on a two year contract and left him leave for free when it expires. I would rather Herrera about contributing than having Matic about doing nothing.

Yes, Herrera should have been offered a decent contract one year ago. After that, it was too late. Mind, Herrera couldn’t do the role McTominay is doing now, and neither was he the kind of player you build around. Nor would he be crucial to the next generation team we are building for now. But almost almost useful to have around, yes, and would help with damage control in the build up process.

 

[Josep Dowling]

My point is that, just because they played in Championship doesn't mean they are not good enough. Roberston was signed from a championship team.

No because Liverpool's 4th attacker is Origi, then Shaqiri not WIjnaldum. So Alexis came with a big reputation, so did Fred.. they haven't delivered. Also, Son delivered after a season or two.

Can you please show my links to where fans have questioned whethere Rashford or Martial shouldn't start for us?

Robertson got relegated with Hull and played a full season in the Premier League the season before. He was tested at the highest level already. We are relying on James who has never played in the Premier League. And now selling Smalling means we assume Tuanzebe is good enough for the Premier League when once again his only experience is a league below.

We are taking far too many risks that all this will work. Too many fans have this hope, almost expectation it will work out with the youth players. There is absolutely no evidence these players are good enough for the Premier League. I look at Chelsea for example, it was very clear Mount and Abraham were a level above the Championship last season after one year in that league. Even then I will be surprised if Abraham makes it at Chelsea. Can we really say the same about James? I keep up to date with the Championship and heard very little about his season last year. Unlike someone like Maddison the season before.

I am happy with the 'deadwood' leaving provided we get just a few replacements. I wasn't expecting 7 signings but when you have no CM or forwards to bring on in gameweek 2 its quite clear we needed numbers. It will be the same issue for the entire season. With the Europa League I just can't see how we will cope, unless Ole plays 11 youngsters and hopes to get knocked out in the group stage. I expect a lot of losses after a Thursday fixture due to fatigue.

 

[TrueRed79]

Going to be a few tears about Herreras name in there with that title

Yeah but they are idiots in fairness. He's a decent player but for a Utd CM? Bang average. His most memorable games were when his man-marked Hazard ffs.

 

[Jimmy_Bond]

Yes it's a good start, I get the feeling that we need to get our wage bill down before we can buy anymore players.

I agree with this and have been saying it for a while.

Whilst I don't agree with the structure the Glazers have put in place, I personally don't have too much of a problem with their spending post Fergie.

It's clear that it's not sustainable giving contracts to everyone worth over £100,000 a week and get zero return from them on the pitch. Not one signing has been a success in the last 6 years, that's incredible.

I'm not convinced it will be spent how it should be, but I'm very confident that in the coming windows we will be spending big money (bet wise, considering we actually spent big in terms of outgoings this summer). I also believe we will be active in January.

 

[crossy1686]

Proper tin foil hat moment. What player that we’ve sold have we actually wanted to keep.

Just plebs trying to spin a negative stance on everything because they're miserable with their lives.

He should have a quick look over at Bury and Bolton if he wants to see what happens to teams who pay high salaries to all their squad without the incomings to support it.

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah but they are idiots in fairness. He's a decent player but for a Utd CM? Bang average. His most memorable games were when his man-marked Hazard ffs.

Yep, absolutely. Not quite the heir to Xavi some people proclaimed him to be.

 

[Renegade]

Yes, Herrera should have been offered a decent contract one year ago. After that, it was too late. Mind, Herrera couldn’t do the role McTominay is doing now, and neither was he the kind of player you build around. Nor would he be crucial to the next generation team we are building for now. But almost almost useful to have around, yes, and would help with damage control in the build up process.

Didn’t he play that role the year we won the Europa and league cup? Double pivot with Pogba, then Jose went and bought Matic for 40m to replace him.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

I agree with this and have been saying it for a while.

Whilst I don't agree with the structure the Glazers have put in place, I personally don't have too much of a problem with their spending post Fergie.

It's clear that it's not sustainable giving contracts to everyone worth over £100,000 a week and get zero return from them on the pitch. Not one signing has been a success in the last 6 years, that's incredible.

I'm not convinced it will be spent how it should be, but I'm very confident that in the coming windows we will be spending big money (bet wise, considering we actually spent big in terms of outgoings this summer). I also believe we will be active in January.

I really hope that you are right on both points in bold but I don't have your confidence but admire your optimism.

 

[R'hllor]

Its not bad but not enough for me, Jones new contract (lulz), Young got his contract (rofl), Rojo, Darmian, we could sell Matic this summer, dependable of contract situation, we could sell DDG too (if he doesnt want to sign a new contract).

 

[Ødegaard]

Its not bad but not enough for me, Jones new contract (lulz), Young got his contract (rofl), Rojo, Darmian, we could sell Matic this summer, dependable of contract situation, we could sell DDG too (if he doesnt want to sign a new contract).

@Niall
Think we need to get the word-filter updated.

 

[TrueRed79]

Yep, absolutely. Not quite the heir to Xavi some people proclaimed him to be.

It's embarrassing the way some people defend Herrera. He loved a good anecdote and always spoke about the fans, the shirt, the club but in pure footballing terms, he is fairly shite and Neville was 100% right about him. There's loads of Ander Herrera's around and easily replaced.