The Disgusting Hypocrisy of Sky Sports and the Premier League

Lentwood

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First and foremost, let me highlight that this IS NOT another thread debating the merits of a European Super League. There are plenty of threads open already where fans can discuss the respective pro's and con's of the proposed breakaway league. I'm not going to offer ANY opinion on the ESL in this thread, the purpose of this thread is solely to talk about the disgusting hypocrisy of Sky Sports and the Premier League.

Now, what am I hoping to achieve by creating this thread? Well, if nothing else, I am finding typing out these words therapeutic! Since the announcement yesterday I have sat and watched with increasing disgust as Sky and the PL have scrambled like they have never scrambled before. Admittedly, I am going to focus my ire predominantly on Sky, mainly because they have led the condemnation of the proposed ESL and because they are owned by one of the world's largest media outlets, which gives them a very large platform from which to shout! However, it's worth noting in all of this that the Premier League have blood on their hands and are as guilty as any party in allowing this to happen.

Being 31, I am too young to remember the breakaway of the Premier League from the Football League, however, by simply Googling old news stories and from chatting to older football fans, the parallels between what happened then and now are striking. Now, granted, before anybody jumps in, this wasn't quite the 'closed shop' that the ESL sounds like it may be. Of course, clubs are relegated from and promoted into the Premier League every season. However, the same concerns were raised at the time about how smaller clubs could hope to survive and what true competition we would be left with if the clubs at the top of the pyramid earned 50 times what the clubs at the bottom earnt. In reality, these fears HAVE been borne out, in the sense that SIX founding clubs have never been relegated from the Premier League. Sure, you can argue it's possible, but in reality, the chances of any of those six actually being relegated is slim to none. Add in the new-money clubs like City (and to a certain extent the likes of Wolves and Leicester under their new ownership) and it's clear that it is becoming increasingly unlikely that any of the 'elite' clubs will be relegated and it is increasingly difficult for promoted clubs to establish themselves in the Premier League. Even the few that do manage to earn promotion and stay in the Premier League for a few seasons seem to scrap tooth and nail between 20th and 10th before eventually being relegated when their luck runs out. Burnley, for example, have done an absolutely outstanding job and have been in the PL for 6/7 season now. However, during this period their highest league finish has been 7th, which is admittedly a remarkable achievement...but is that really 'competition', when we're lauding teams for somehow achieving an 'impossible' 7th-placed finish? Of course, Burnley have recently been bought out by Americans themselves, so ultimately the bit of success they have had as come at the inevitable cost of having their club ripped away from the local community and into the hands of the uber-capitalists who, slowly but surely, will try to take the club away from the fans.

In addition to it becoming increasingly difficult to break into the PL, only SEVEN clubs have won the Premier League in the 30 years the competition has existed. Of those 7, only really Leicester really stand out as a shock, and they themselves have benefitted from foreign investment (though not to the extent of the likes of Blackburn, Chelsea and Manchester City). Perhaps more shockingly (for me) is that only NINE English clubs have ever qualified for/played in the Champions League. What we are left with then, in reality, is three leagues within a league and the illusion of competition. Of the hundred plus professional football teams in England, only 7 have ever won the Premier League and only 9 have ever qualified for the Champions League. Those numbers would be much smaller if you take Abrahamovich out of Chelsea, Jack Walker out of Blackburn, King Power out of Leicester and Sheikh Mansour out of City. So, my point is, by it's very nature, the PL prevents 'real' competition, or at the very least 'organic' competition. You have perhaps three/four teams capable of winning the title, six/seven teams capable of qualifying for the Champions League and the rest are really playing not to get relegated.

In the first 12 years of it's existence, before foreign ownership, Manchester United and Arsenal won the title 11 times, with the other going to Blackburn who were HEAVILY bankrolled by Jack Walker. Does that sound like an 'open' competition? Does that sound like an egalitarian, level-playing field for all? Of course not! It was only when Roman Abrahamovich came along with his ill-gotten billions that that dominance was broken, but even then after 19 years, only four teams had won the Premier League, two of them bankrolled by super rich individuals (turns out not through benevolent love for the game - shock!). So, what the Premier League and Sky Sports had created was a competition which is was basically only possible to win by investing huge sums of money, and since the clubs at the top earnt the most money, it created a positive feedback loop for those clubs! Again, more money piled in from outside as the TV deals grew larger and larger and more foreign owners came into the league, throwing money around in a hope of grabbing a slice of the action. We saw City have the GDP of a small nation piled into their club to turn them from Championship team into the dominant force in the Premier League. Whispers abound of crooked dealings, backhanders, inflated sponsorship deals and payments off the books. In total, who knows how many billions it has taken to make City competitive? Again, my point is, the Premier League and Sky Sports created this environment! They created a league in which the rewards for success were so insane that it became impossible to break through the glass ceiling organically. Teams with long established histories and large fanbases have fallen by the wayside (Derby, Nottingham Forest, Sunderland etc...) and are sat languishing in the lower divisions, probably never to return. At best, they might hope to scrape into the Premier League for a season or two and/or get bought by some oligarch somewhere who will change their kit, build a new stadium, 'update' the badge and buy 23 players who had never heard of their club previously. It's a joke. Football gave into commercialisation and sold it's soul decades ago. This is just the latest evolution* of a cycle that incentivises greed and crushes organic competition, created by the Premier League and Sky Sports.

*Note: when I say 'evolution', people seem to take that word as a positive...i.e. as a 'change for the better'. What I actually mean by that is that this is a natural progression of the path football chose 30 years ago. We have seen in the global economy that you can't have a 'bit' of Capitalism. As soon as you allow profit to dictate without regulation, Capitalism will eat everything in it's path, whether that's people, the environment, other businesses, local institutions, Governments or a sport, in this case.

Those old enough to remember the formation of the Premier League will, I am sure, confirm that fans were forewarned about this at the time. But who was involved in driving this new, elite competition which threatened the very competitive spirit of the English game? Well that would be none other than Sky Sports. According to Wikipedia - " It (Sky Sports) has played a major role in the increased commercialisation of British sport since 1991, sometimes playing a large role in inducing organisational changes in the sports it broadcasts, most notably when it encouraged the Premier League to break away from the Football League in 1992". So, in effect, what happened in 1992 was exactly what is happening now. 'Elite' clubs had their heads turned by the offer of lucrative TV broadcasting deals and decided to breakaway from the old established structure, which promoted much fairer allocation of resources and more even competition.

So again, going back to my point. Why have Sky scrambled to condemn this new ESL with such ferocity? Is it because they care deeply about fans, competition and 'fairness'? Of course it isn't! It's because for a long, long time it is Sky who have created the conditions under which the fans have been ripped off and they see their cash cow disappearing! It was Sky and the Premier League who created the conditions under which fans are charged £50+ for a Match Day ticket, where fans are forced to sign up to automatic cup ticket schemes or lose their STs, where fans are charged £75 for a replica shirts (x3 per season), where semi finals take place at Wembley at great expense to fans, where there are three different TV broadcaster which fans must sign up for if they want to watch as many of their teams games as possible, where foreign billionaires have come into the game in droves to buy up football clubs and siphon out their share of the profits.

The hypocrisy of it all absolutely reeks. We've got Neville, Carragher and every Sky Sports pundit and journalist gnashing their teeth and wailing about how 'it's all so unfair' as if they care! Where were these voices when the fans have pleaded for help over the years? Where were these voices when the Glazers bought Utd, or Roman bought Chelsea, or Sheikh Mansour bought City, or Stan Kroenke bought Arsenal, or FSG bought Liverpool? Where were these voices when the Green & Gold campaign begged for their involvement over the years to raise the profile of their fight to take back football? These voices were conspicuous by their absence. Not one word muttered, in fact, pundits DEFENDED these owners on TV, time and time again. Well, as I have said elsewhere, this is all of their chickens coming home to roost. THEY are responsible for creating these monsters and now it looks like they have finally lost control.

In my opinion, the final nail in the coffin and the deciding factor in emboldening the 'elite 6' was the disastrous PPV shambles. Again, the benevolent, fan-loving Socialists at Sky Sports had a brainwave and decided 'hey...this global pandemic means life-long fans can't get into the stadium and watch their teams...let's monetise that!' Brilliant...taking advantage of a virus to mug fans for more cash! However, in my opinion , this has backfired spectacularly because as we know, it was a massive flop. We can suggest that fans took a principled stance against paying for football, but I believe it was purely down to the fact the teams playing on PPV weren't a big enough draw. I guarantee had they put United vs Liverpool on PPV they would have gotten tens of thousands of buys. At this point, if it wasn't obvious before, I think the owners of the 'elite' clubs realised exactly what the rest of the league was worth without them...and that's a tiny fraction of what it is worth with them. As I said previously, this has emboldened them to the point whereby they know they have the PL and Sky over a barrel. They have an offer on the table for £310m plus a minimum £110m a season, even if they lose every Super League fixture. And, under the current system, why shouldn't they take it? Is this any worse than what has been happening to our game for the last 30 years? These billionaires have been lured in with the promise of a return on their investment and guess what, shock horror, they want to maximise every last cent!

Now, as I said right at the beginning, this is not an argument about the sporting merits of a ESL. I am saying let's really think about who is setting the narrative here. Do I personally want a 'closed shop' European Super League? Not particularly. But do I like this current version of Premier League football, dominated by oil money, plastic clubs and greed? That is equally disgusting and pointless in my opinion. So, by all means let's fight this, but let's not fight it just to return to the status quo created by Sky. The people behind the ESL, the people behind Sky Sports and the people behind the Premier League are two cheeks of the same arse. If we're going to boot these people out of football, let's really take back control of the game and have a real revolution.

We ought to be fighting for fan ownership of clubs, salary caps (whereby profits are reinvested in the game and local communities - not siphoned off by owners), restrictions on stockpiling players, restrictions of poaching young players, restrictions on the number of games, restrictions on the price of tickets, home-grown player rules in the starting XI, transfer caps...that's a true model of fairness and a level-playing field (or as near as it can/should be in competitive sport). If fighting the ESL means a return to the 'Premier League era' then no thanks, I can't be arsed, happy to just let the game go and let the monsters eat each other.
 
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Trex

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Spot on The EPL, Sky, Uefa and Fifa are all hypocrites, they're only fighting for their pockets playing the good guys.
 

Dancfc

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God I really wouldn't want fan ownership/control they will be just as bad for the totally opposite reason (will let their heart rule their head).
 

GloryHunter07

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You cant expect me to read all of that, im a modern fan with a 10 second attention span.
 

Keefy18

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Absolutely Nailed it @Lentwood

I'm not for this ESL, It'll lead to even bigger s*it shows down the line but the reality is absolutely EVERYONE who cashed in on the Premier league or the never ending revamps of Champions leagues are hypocrites.

I don't care if its Neville, Carragher, Fergie or Ander... it screams hypocrisy!

Everton released a statement this morning, short memories of them when they screwed the pooch in 1992 and fecked over seventy something other football clubs in England.

Shoes on the other foot now and it's woe is me.
 

Dancfc

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Absolutely Nailed it @Lentwood

I'm not for this ESL, It'll lead to even bigger s*it shows down the line but the reality is absolutely EVERYONE who cashed in on the Premier league or the never ending revamps of Champions leagues are hypocrites.

I don't care if its Neville, Carragher, Fergie or Ander... it screams hypocrisy!

Everton released a statement this morning, short memories of them when they screwed the pooch in 1992 and fecked over seventy something other football clubs in England.

Shoes on the other foot now and it's woe is me.
I would say everyone involved in football are complicit to a degree. Every change made in recent times (interception of PL, CL offering four places to the elite leagues to name two) have contributed to this day and we all did nothing about it.

As much as I'm buzzing for a semi vs Real if we go down the moral route, was it right we after finishing 4th got a spot in the first place over the Champions of any top flight European League?
 

stevoc

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I would say everyone involved in football are complicit to a degree. Every change made in recent times (interception of PL, CL offering four places to the elite leagues to name two) have contributed to this day and we all did nothing about it.

As much as I'm buzzing for a semi vs Real if we go down the moral route, was it right we after finishing 4th got a spot in the first place over the Champions of any top flight European League?
Of course not but it won't stop UEFA and Sky spouting shit about sporting merit and the integrity of the game though.
 

UpWithRivers

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Ive been shouting hypocrites in every forum I can find. :lol: Good write up though long it was worth the read.
 

acnumber9

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The same cnuts complaining about the greed of a Super League want to double the amount they charge me for their TV package to £106 a month. After a year where there are next to no new films etc. feck Sky and their holier than thou schtick.

One thing I’d disagree with in the opening post is the PPV thing. I’m pretty sure that was the Premier League’s idea rather than Sky’s, but that just shows them to be no less greedy themselves.
 

Keefy18

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I would say everyone involved in football are complicit to a degree. Every change made in recent times (interception of PL, CL offering four places to the elite leagues to name two) have contributed to this day and we all did nothing about it.

As much as I'm buzzing for a semi vs Real if we go down the moral route, was it right we after finishing 4th got a spot in the first place over the Champions of any top flight European League?
Exactly.

History is told in stories and all stories have a beginning, middle and end.

The beginning of this greed in football was Murdoch's millions and the premier league inception.

22 Clubs decided in 1992 to royally feck over every other club in the land and line their own pockets.

As you rightly say, every single decision from every club owner, executive, player, manager and agents all contributed to this situation we are in now currently.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
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Fun fact, whilst only 7 English clubs have won the Premier League (in 28 seasons), only 7 English clubs also won the Old First Division in its last 28 seasons.
 

TheReligion

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I'm fecked off with everything.

Where was all this outcry from the football community when the Glazers took over United and saddled us with debt? No one was arsed other than United fans. People thought it was funny.

Where was the Government intervention when Abu Dhabi took over City? The books were cooked and UEFA and the PL couldn't care less.

Same with Chelsea, same with PSG. No one cared.

Now people realise that their beloved team might be impacted by the monsters they allowed to be created they all rally together under the front of being in it for the people when all they are doing is seeking to protect their own interests.

The whole thing is sour.
 

Keefy18

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The same cnuts complaining about the greed of a Super League want to double the amount they charge me for their TV package to £106 a month. After a year where there are next to no new films etc. feck Sky and their holier than thou schtick.

One thing I’d disagree with in the opening post is the PPV thing. I’m pretty sure that was the Premier League’s idea rather than Sky’s, but that just shows them to be no less greedy themselves.
A large section of supporters are thick and have short memories.

Most of them can't even remember a few months back where Sky attempted to charge £15 for a game of football via PPV!

Meanwhile you've Gary pontificating all weekend whilst he said this only a few months ago... the irony is outstanding!

He's a clever little b*llicks, manages to blame the PL whilst ignoring his employer Sky who were actually charging it!

 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
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In my opinion, the final nail in the coffin and the deciding factor in emboldening the 'elite 6' was the disastrous PPV shambles. Again, the benevolent, fan-loving Socialists at Sky Sports had a brainwave and decided 'hey...this global pandemic means life-long fans can't get into the stadium and watch their teams...let's monetise that!' Brilliant...taking advantage of a virus to mug fans for more cash! However, in my opinion , this has backfired spectacularly because as we know, it was a massive flop. We can suggest that fans took a principled stance against paying for football, but I believe it was purely down to the fact the teams playing on PPV weren't a big enough draw. I guarantee had they put United vs Liverpool on PPV they would have gotten tens of thousands of buys. At this point, if it wasn't obvious before, I think the owners of the 'elite' clubs realised exactly what the rest of the league was worth without them...and that's a tiny fraction of what it is worth with them. As I said previously, this has emboldened them to the point whereby they know they have the PL and Sky over a barrel. They have an offer on the table for £310m plus a minimum £110m a season, even if they lose every Super League fixture. And, under the current system, why shouldn't they take it? Is this any worse than what has been happening to our game for the last 30 years? These billionaires have been lured in with the promise of a return on their investment and guess what, shock horror, they want to maximise every last cent!
Some well made points elsewhere, but the PPV shambles was club driven, not Sky driven.

Also just because Neville and Carragher work for Sky, doesn't give them any less right to criticize the ESL, no matter what Sky have done in the past.
 
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LilyWhiteSpur

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I'm sorry I can agree with parts of this but mostly its nothing like the set up of the PL, you cant just brush over the "closed shop part". Yes Sky were greedy, chairmen were greedy (none more so than our own who made the bloody sky dishes) but the clubs involved in the break away for the PL did seek approval from the FA and didn't try to run the league themselves. They realised the new PL needed some authority in the form of the FA and teams that were selected to enter the PL were selected by performance not how much money they had. Yes the competition has only been won by a a select few teams but that s the way in most leagues in modern times, many teams hove been relegated and many smaller teams worked their way up to establish themselves in the top flight. The Football League has also benefited, there is no a second tear league in the world that comes close to The Championship.

Compare that to the set up of this new league that will ruin established European competitions, ruin domestic leagues, clubs will be selected on their ability to grow income not on performance, the league will be self regulated by the management of the founding teams and no founding team can ever be relegated.

Yes greed and money has been involved a lot more in English football since the PL was formed, but the same is in every league in the Europe, even Germany, but it has never been on the level of what is being proposed.
 

acnumber9

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A large section of supporters are thick and have short memories.

Most of them can't even remember a few months back where Sky attempted to charge £15 for a game of football via PPV!

Meanwhile you've Gary pontificating all weekend whilst he said this only a few months ago... the irony is outstanding!

He's a clever little b*llicks, manages to blame the PL whilst ignoring his employer Sky who were actually charging it!

It wasn’t Sky attempting to do that though. It was the Premier League. Sure, Sky got their cut, but it wasn’t their matches to choose whether to charge for.
 

Desert Eagle

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First and foremost, let me highlight that this IS NOT another thread debating the merits of a European Super League. There are plenty of threads open already where fans can discuss the respective pro's and con's of the proposed breakaway league. I'm not going to offer ANY opinion on the ESL in this thread, the purpose of this thread is solely to talk about the disgusting hypocrisy of Sky Sports and the Premier League.

Now, what am I hoping to achieve by creating this thread? Well, if nothing else, I am finding typing out these words therapeutic! Since the announcement yesterday I have sat and watched with increasing disgust as Sky and the PL have scrambled like they have never scrambled before. Admittedly, I am going to focus my ire predominantly on Sky, mainly because they have led the condemnation of the proposed ESL and because they are owned by one of the world's largest media outlets, which gives them a very large platform from which to shout! However, it's worth noting in all of this that the Premier League have blood on their hands and are as guilty as any party in allowing this to happen.

Being 31, I am too young to remember the breakaway of the Premier League from the Football League, however, by simply Googling old news stories and from chatting to older football fans, the parallels between what happened then and now are striking. Now, granted, before anybody jumps in, this wasn't quite the 'closed shop' that the ESL sounds like it may be. Of course, clubs are relegated from and promoted into the Premier League every season. However, the same concerns were raised at the time about how smaller clubs could hope to survive and what true competition we would be left with if the clubs at the top of the pyramid earned 50 times what the clubs at the bottom earnt. In reality, these fears HAVE been borne out, in the sense that SIX founding clubs have never been relegated from the Premier League. Sure, you can argue it's possible, but in reality, the chances of any of those six actually being relegated is slim to none. Add in the new-money clubs like City (and to a certain extent the likes of Wolves and Leicester under their new ownership) and it's clear that it is becoming increasingly unlikely that any of the 'elite' clubs will be relegated and it is increasingly difficult for promoted clubs to establish themselves in the Premier League. Even the few that do manage to earn promotion and stay in the Premier League for a few seasons seem to scrap tooth and nail between 20th and 10th before eventually being relegated when their luck runs out. Burnley, for example, have done an absolutely outstanding job and have been in the PL for 6/7 season now. However, during this period their highest league finish has been 7th, which is admittedly a remarkable achievement...but is that really 'competition', when we're lauding teams for somehow achieving an 'impossible' 7th-placed finish? Of course, Burnley have recently been bought out by Americans themselves, so ultimately the bit of success they have had as come at the inevitable cost of having their club ripped away from the local community and into the hands of the uber-capitalists who, slowly but surely, will try to take the club away from the fans.

In addition to it becoming increasingly difficult to break into the PL, only SEVEN clubs have won the Premier League in the 30 years the competition has existed. Of those 7, only really Leicester really stand out as a shock, and they themselves have benefitted from foreign investment (though not to the extent of the likes of Blackburn, Chelsea and Manchester City). Perhaps more shockingly (for me) is that only NINE English clubs have ever qualified for/played in the Champions League. What we are left with then, in reality, is three leagues within a league and the illusion of competition. Of the hundred plus professional football teams in England, only 7 have ever won the Premier League and only 9 have ever qualified for the Champions League. Those numbers would be much smaller if you take Abrahamovich out of Chelsea, Jack Walker out of Blackburn, King Power out of Leicester and Sheikh Mansour out of City. So, my point is, by it's very nature, the PL prevents 'real' competition, or at the very least 'organic' competition. You have perhaps three/four teams capable of winning the title, six/seven teams capable of qualifying for the Champions League and the rest are really playing not to get relegated.

In the first 12 years of it's existence, before foreign ownership, Manchester United and Arsenal won the title 11 times, with the other going to Blackburn who were HEAVILY bankrolled by Jack Walker. Does that sound like an 'open' competition? Does that sound like an egalitarian, level-playing field for all? Of course not! It was only when Roman Abrahamovich came along with his ill-gotten billions that that dominance was broken, but even then after 19 years, only four teams had won the Premier League, two of them bankrolled by super rich individuals (turns out not through benevolent love for the game - shock!). So, what the Premier League and Sky Sports had created was a competition which is was basically only possible to win by investing huge sums of money, and since the clubs at the top earnt the most money, it created a positive feedback loop for those clubs! Again, more money piled in from outside as the TV deals grew larger and larger and more foreign owners came into the league, throwing money around in a hope of grabbing a slice of the action. We saw City have the GDP of a small nation piled into their club to turn them from Championship team into the dominant force in the Premier League. Whispers abound of crooked dealings, backhanders, inflated sponsorship deals and payments off the books. In total, who knows how many billions it has taken to make City competitive? Again, my point is, the Premier League and Sky Sports created this environment! They created a league in which the rewards for success were so insane that it became impossible to break through the glass ceiling organically. Teams with long established histories and large fanbases have fallen by the wayside (Derby, Nottingham Forest, Sunderland etc...) and are sat languishing in the lower divisions, probably never to return. At best, they might hope to scrape into the Premier League for a season or two and/or get bought by some oligarch somewhere who will change their kit, build a new stadium, 'update' the badge and buy 23 players who had never heard of their club previously. It's a joke. Football gave into commercialisation and sold it's soul decades ago. This is just the latest evolution* of a cycle that incentivises greed and crushes organic competition, created by the Premier League and Sky Sports.

*Note: when I say 'evolution', people seem to take that word as a positive...i.e. as a 'change for the better'. What I actually mean by that is that this is a natural progression of the path football chose 30 years ago. We have seen in the global economy that you can't have a 'bit' of Capitalism. As soon as you allow profit to dictate without regulation, Capitalism will eat everything in it's path, whether that's people, the environment, other businesses, local institutions, Governments or a sport, in this case.

Those old enough to remember the formation of the Premier League will, I am sure, confirm that fans were forewarned about this at the time. But who was involved in driving this new, elite competition which threatened the very competitive spirit of the English game? Well that would be none other than Sky Sports. According to Wikipedia - " It (Sky Sports) has played a major role in the increased commercialisation of British sport since 1991, sometimes playing a large role in inducing organisational changes in the sports it broadcasts, most notably when it encouraged the Premier League to break away from the Football League in 1992". So, in effect, what happened in 1992 was exactly what is happening now. 'Elite' clubs had their heads turned by the offer of lucrative TV broadcasting deals and decided to breakaway from the old established structure, which promoted much fairer allocation of resources and more even competition.

So again, going back to my point. Why have Sky scrambled to condemn this new ESL with such ferocity? Is it because they care deeply about fans, competition and 'fairness'? Of course it isn't! It's because for a long, long time it is Sky who have created the conditions under which the fans have been ripped off and they see their cash cow disappearing! It was Sky and the Premier League who created the conditions under which fans are charged £50+ for a Match Day ticket, where fans are forced to sign up to automatic cup ticket schemes or lose their STs, where fans are charged £75 for a replica shirts (x3 per season), where semi finals take place at Wembley at great expense to fans, where there are three different TV broadcaster which fans must sign up for if they want to watch as many of their teams games as possible, where foreign billionaires have come into the game in droves to buy up football clubs and siphon out their share of the profits.

The hypocrisy of it all absolutely reeks. We've got Neville, Carragher and every Sky Sports pundit and journalist gnashing their teeth and wailing about how 'it's all so unfair' as if they care! Where were these voices when the fans have pleaded for help over the years? Where were these voices when the Glazers bought Utd, or Roman bought Chelsea, or Sheikh Mansour bought City, or Stan Kroenke bought Arsenal, or FSG bought Liverpool? Where were these voices when the Green & Gold campaign begged for their involvement over the years to raise the profile of their fight to take back football? These voices were conspicuous by their absence. Not one word muttered, in fact, pundits DEFENDED these owners on TV, time and time again. Well, as I have said elsewhere, this is all of their chickens coming home to roost. THEY are responsible for creating these monsters and now it looks like they have finally lost control.

In my opinion, the final nail in the coffin and the deciding factor in emboldening the 'elite 6' was the disastrous PPV shambles. Again, the benevolent, fan-loving Socialists at Sky Sports had a brainwave and decided 'hey...this global pandemic means life-long fans can't get into the stadium and watch their teams...let's monetise that!' Brilliant...taking advantage of a virus to mug fans for more cash! However, in my opinion , this has backfired spectacularly because as we know, it was a massive flop. We can suggest that fans took a principled stance against paying for football, but I believe it was purely down to the fact the teams playing on PPV weren't a big enough draw. I guarantee had they put United vs Liverpool on PPV they would have gotten tens of thousands of buys. At this point, if it wasn't obvious before, I think the owners of the 'elite' clubs realised exactly what the rest of the league was worth without them...and that's a tiny fraction of what it is worth with them. As I said previously, this has emboldened them to the point whereby they know they have the PL and Sky over a barrel. They have an offer on the table for £310m plus a minimum £110m a season, even if they lose every Super League fixture. And, under the current system, why shouldn't they take it? Is this any worse than what has been happening to our game for the last 30 years? These billionaires have been lured in with the promise of a return on their investment and guess what, shock horror, they want to maximise every last cent!

Now, as I said right at the beginning, this is not an argument about the sporting merits of a ESL. I am saying let's really think about who is setting the narrative here. Do I personally want a 'closed shop' European Super League? Not particularly. But do I like this current version of Premier League football, dominated by oil money, plastic clubs and greed? That is equally disgusting and pointless in my opinion. So, by all means let's fight this, but let's not fight it just to return to the status quo created by Sky. The people behind the ESL, the people behind Sky Sports and the people behind the Premier League are two cheeks of the same arse. If we're going to boot these people out of football, let's really take back control of the game and have a real revolution.

We ought to be fighting for fan ownership of clubs, salary caps (whereby profits are reinvested in the game and local communities - not siphoned off by owners), restrictions on stockpiling players, restrictions of poaching young players, restrictions on the number of games, restrictions on the price of tickets, home-grown player rules in the starting XI, transfer caps...that's a true model of fairness and a level-playing field (or as near as it can/should be in competitive sport). If fighting the ESL means a return to the 'Premier League era' then no thanks, I can't be arsed, happy to just let the game go and let the monsters eat each other.
Great post and the last paragraph in particular is the most important.
 

Mindhunter

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Absolutely spot on. The ESL is just a tailwind of the general direction football has been going on. People who claim disgust and consider this as sacrilege should have a long, hard look at themselves.

Edit: My last sentence refers to UEFA, PL, and broadcasting employees. Not fans. Wrong choice of words.
 
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Annihilate Now!

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Absolutely spot on. The ESL is just a tailwind of the general direction football has been going on. People who claim disgust and consider this as sacrilege should have a long, hard look at themselves.
What if you were against the Glazers and everything else?
 

CassiusClaymore

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Fun fact, whilst only 7 English clubs have won the Premier League (in 28 seasons), only 7 English clubs also won the Old First Division in its last 28 seasons.
Yeah I was gonna say that. Liverpool dominated before the PL was formed. Difference in those days was that players wanted to play for the best club. Invariably that came with the best wages I guess but nowadays that's not necessarily the case.

I agree with most of the OP but you're never going to get a completely level playing field in most sports never mind football. And tbh why would you want that? Footballs greatest drama's have always been about triumph against the odds. That's what makes (made) it so compelling and I feel is something that the people behind the ESL are seriously underestimating.
 

sun_tzu

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Just a reminder of how the Premier league was formed

Foundation of the Premier League
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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The foundation of the Premier League in English football occurred in the early 1990s. The first major step to its formation occurred in October 1990, when the managing director of London Weekend Television (LWT) Greg Dyke met with the representatives of the "big five" clubs - David Dein of Arsenal, Philip Carter of Everton, Noel White of Liverpool, Martin Edwards of Manchester United and Irving Scholar of Tottenham Hotspur.[1] The meeting was to pave the way for a breakaway from the Football League. Dyke believed that it would be more lucrative for ITV if only the larger clubs in the country were featured on national television and wanted to establish whether the clubs would be interested in a larger share of television rights money.[2][3]
Talk of a super league of elite English clubs had been frequently mentioned by various footballing bodies, and by the media, since the mid 1980s.
The fundamental difference between the old Football League and the breakaway league (what became the Premier League) is that the money in the breakaway league would only be divided between the clubs active in that division whilst in the previous arrangement it was shared between all Football League clubs across all divisions. The plan was drawn up for a Premier League of 18 clubs to be created in time for the 1992–93 season, although the recently announced plan to increase the First Division from 20 to 22 clubs for the 1991–92 season still went ahead, as the creation of the Premier League had still not been confirmed by this stage. However, 14 of the 22 clubs who would be competing in that season's First Division had agreed to form a breakaway league of their own if the Football Association's bid to create a breakaway league failed.
The five clubs decided it was a good idea and decided to press ahead with it, however the league would have no credibility without the backing of The Football Association and so David Dein of Arsenal F.C. held talks to see whether the FA were receptive to the idea. The FA did not enjoy an amicable relationship with the Football League at the time and considered it as a way to weaken the Football League's position. Football League president Bill Fox even described the FA's plans to form a breakaway league as an attempt to "hijack" the First Division.
ITV offered £205 million for the television rights and later increased their offer to £262 million but were outbid by Rupert Murdoch who saw it as an opportunity to lure new customers to their loss-making satellite service Sky Television plc who had been advised by the new Tottenham Hotspur Chairman Alan Sugar. Trevor East of ITV heard Sugar on the telephone speaking to Murdoch at the Royal Lancaster Hotel in London in May 1992 advising an increased bid for the television rights. Sugar is alleged to have told Murdoch to "Blow them out of the water".[4]
On 27 May 1992, the Premier League was officially formed, with the first fixtures to be played on 15 August 1992. The new league would involve the 19 highest-placed teams in that season's First Division as well as the champions, runners-up and playoff winners from the Second Division. The old Second Division would be renamed Division One, the Third Division would become Division Two and the Fourth Division would become Division Three. The three-up, three-down system of promotion and relegation, established in 1974 (although there had since been exceptions to the system on occasions when the league was being reorganised) would continue in the future.
Sugar at the time was supplying Sky with satellite dishes and was the only chairman of a big five club to vote in favour of Sky's bid. He would soon take over Tottenham Hotspur.
The other big clubs were reluctant to accept Sky's bid due to it being a non-terrestrial television service and no pledge from Sky to feature their games more regularly was made.
Following a trial in the Queen's Bench Division of the High Court by Mr Justice Rose, it was held that the formation of the Premier League was not subject to judicial review, The Football Association being governed by private law.
 

vodrake

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I think Sky being free-to-air for the ESL bashing last night right up until the football started sums it all up.
"Hey guys, join us tonight on Sky Sports for free to see us soapbox about how corporate greed and the over monetization of football is taking the game we love away from the fans. What? You'd actually be interested in watching the football match after as well? Yeah, sorry bud, that's gonna cost you £50"
 

hubbuh

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Absolutely spot on. The ESL is just a tailwind of the general direction football has been going on. People who claim disgust and consider this as sacrilege should have a long, hard look at themselves.
Yes, that's where our ire should really be aimed at right now. The fans!
 

alexthelion

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First and foremost, let me highlight that this IS NOT another thread debating the merits of a European Super League. There are plenty of threads open already where fans can discuss the respective pro's and con's of the proposed breakaway league. I'm not going to offer ANY opinion on the ESL in this thread, the purpose of this thread is solely to talk about the disgusting hypocrisy of Sky Sports and the Premier League.

Now, what am I hoping to achieve by creating this thread? Well, if nothing else, I am finding typing out these words therapeutic! Since the announcement yesterday I have sat and watched with increasing disgust as Sky and the PL have scrambled like they have never scrambled before. Admittedly, I am going to focus my ire predominantly on Sky, mainly because they have led the condemnation of the proposed ESL and because they are owned by one of the world's largest media outlets, which gives them a very large platform from which to shout! However, it's worth noting in all of this that the Premier League have blood on their hands and are as guilty as any party in allowing this to happen.

Being 31, I am too young to remember the breakaway of the Premier League from the Football League, however, by simply Googling old news stories and from chatting to older football fans, the parallels between what happened then and now are striking. Now, granted, before anybody jumps in, this wasn't quite the 'closed shop' that the ESL sounds like it may be. Of course, clubs are relegated from and promoted into the Premier League every season. However, the same concerns were raised at the time about how smaller clubs could hope to survive and what true competition we would be left with if the clubs at the top of the pyramid earned 50 times what the clubs at the bottom earnt. In reality, these fears HAVE been borne out, in the sense that SIX founding clubs have never been relegated from the Premier League. Sure, you can argue it's possible, but in reality, the chances of any of those six actually being relegated is slim to none. Add in the new-money clubs like City (and to a certain extent the likes of Wolves and Leicester under their new ownership) and it's clear that it is becoming increasingly unlikely that any of the 'elite' clubs will be relegated and it is increasingly difficult for promoted clubs to establish themselves in the Premier League. Even the few that do manage to earn promotion and stay in the Premier League for a few seasons seem to scrap tooth and nail between 20th and 10th before eventually being relegated when their luck runs out. Burnley, for example, have done an absolutely outstanding job and have been in the PL for 6/7 season now. However, during this period their highest league finish has been 7th, which is admittedly a remarkable achievement...but is that really 'competition', when we're lauding teams for somehow achieving an 'impossible' 7th-placed finish? Of course, Burnley have recently been bought out by Americans themselves, so ultimately the bit of success they have had as come at the inevitable cost of having their club ripped away from the local community and into the hands of the uber-capitalists who, slowly but surely, will try to take the club away from the fans.

In addition to it becoming increasingly difficult to break into the PL, only SEVEN clubs have won the Premier League in the 30 years the competition has existed. Of those 7, only really Leicester really stand out as a shock, and they themselves have benefitted from foreign investment (though not to the extent of the likes of Blackburn, Chelsea and Manchester City). Perhaps more shockingly (for me) is that only NINE English clubs have ever qualified for/played in the Champions League. What we are left with then, in reality, is three leagues within a league and the illusion of competition. Of the hundred plus professional football teams in England, only 7 have ever won the Premier League and only 9 have ever qualified for the Champions League. Those numbers would be much smaller if you take Abrahamovich out of Chelsea, Jack Walker out of Blackburn, King Power out of Leicester and Sheikh Mansour out of City. So, my point is, by it's very nature, the PL prevents 'real' competition, or at the very least 'organic' competition. You have perhaps three/four teams capable of winning the title, six/seven teams capable of qualifying for the Champions League and the rest are really playing not to get relegated.

In the first 12 years of it's existence, before foreign ownership, Manchester United and Arsenal won the title 11 times, with the other going to Blackburn who were HEAVILY bankrolled by Jack Walker. Does that sound like an 'open' competition? Does that sound like an egalitarian, level-playing field for all? Of course not! It was only when Roman Abrahamovich came along with his ill-gotten billions that that dominance was broken, but even then after 19 years, only four teams had won the Premier League, two of them bankrolled by super rich individuals (turns out not through benevolent love for the game - shock!). So, what the Premier League and Sky Sports had created was a competition which is was basically only possible to win by investing huge sums of money, and since the clubs at the top earnt the most money, it created a positive feedback loop for those clubs! Again, more money piled in from outside as the TV deals grew larger and larger and more foreign owners came into the league, throwing money around in a hope of grabbing a slice of the action. We saw City have the GDP of a small nation piled into their club to turn them from Championship team into the dominant force in the Premier League. Whispers abound of crooked dealings, backhanders, inflated sponsorship deals and payments off the books. In total, who knows how many billions it has taken to make City competitive? Again, my point is, the Premier League and Sky Sports created this environment! They created a league in which the rewards for success were so insane that it became impossible to break through the glass ceiling organically. Teams with long established histories and large fanbases have fallen by the wayside (Derby, Nottingham Forest, Sunderland etc...) and are sat languishing in the lower divisions, probably never to return. At best, they might hope to scrape into the Premier League for a season or two and/or get bought by some oligarch somewhere who will change their kit, build a new stadium, 'update' the badge and buy 23 players who had never heard of their club previously. It's a joke. Football gave into commercialisation and sold it's soul decades ago. This is just the latest evolution* of a cycle that incentivises greed and crushes organic competition, created by the Premier League and Sky Sports.

*Note: when I say 'evolution', people seem to take that word as a positive...i.e. as a 'change for the better'. What I actually mean by that is that this is a natural progression of the path football chose 30 years ago. We have seen in the global economy that you can't have a 'bit' of Capitalism. As soon as you allow profit to dictate without regulation, Capitalism will eat everything in it's path, whether that's people, the environment, other businesses, local institutions, Governments or a sport, in this case.

Those old enough to remember the formation of the Premier League will, I am sure, confirm that fans were forewarned about this at the time. But who was involved in driving this new, elite competition which threatened the very competitive spirit of the English game? Well that would be none other than Sky Sports. According to Wikipedia - " It (Sky Sports) has played a major role in the increased commercialisation of British sport since 1991, sometimes playing a large role in inducing organisational changes in the sports it broadcasts, most notably when it encouraged the Premier League to break away from the Football League in 1992". So, in effect, what happened in 1992 was exactly what is happening now. 'Elite' clubs had their heads turned by the offer of lucrative TV broadcasting deals and decided to breakaway from the old established structure, which promoted much fairer allocation of resources and more even competition.

So again, going back to my point. Why have Sky scrambled to condemn this new ESL with such ferocity? Is it because they care deeply about fans, competition and 'fairness'? Of course it isn't! It's because for a long, long time it is Sky who have created the conditions under which the fans have been ripped off and they see their cash cow disappearing! It was Sky and the Premier League who created the conditions under which fans are charged £50+ for a Match Day ticket, where fans are forced to sign up to automatic cup ticket schemes or lose their STs, where fans are charged £75 for a replica shirts (x3 per season), where semi finals take place at Wembley at great expense to fans, where there are three different TV broadcaster which fans must sign up for if they want to watch as many of their teams games as possible, where foreign billionaires have come into the game in droves to buy up football clubs and siphon out their share of the profits.

The hypocrisy of it all absolutely reeks. We've got Neville, Carragher and every Sky Sports pundit and journalist gnashing their teeth and wailing about how 'it's all so unfair' as if they care! Where were these voices when the fans have pleaded for help over the years? Where were these voices when the Glazers bought Utd, or Roman bought Chelsea, or Sheikh Mansour bought City, or Stan Kroenke bought Arsenal, or FSG bought Liverpool? Where were these voices when the Green & Gold campaign begged for their involvement over the years to raise the profile of their fight to take back football? These voices were conspicuous by their absence. Not one word muttered, in fact, pundits DEFENDED these owners on TV, time and time again. Well, as I have said elsewhere, this is all of their chickens coming home to roost. THEY are responsible for creating these monsters and now it looks like they have finally lost control.

In my opinion, the final nail in the coffin and the deciding factor in emboldening the 'elite 6' was the disastrous PPV shambles. Again, the benevolent, fan-loving Socialists at Sky Sports had a brainwave and decided 'hey...this global pandemic means life-long fans can't get into the stadium and watch their teams...let's monetise that!' Brilliant...taking advantage of a virus to mug fans for more cash! However, in my opinion , this has backfired spectacularly because as we know, it was a massive flop. We can suggest that fans took a principled stance against paying for football, but I believe it was purely down to the fact the teams playing on PPV weren't a big enough draw. I guarantee had they put United vs Liverpool on PPV they would have gotten tens of thousands of buys. At this point, if it wasn't obvious before, I think the owners of the 'elite' clubs realised exactly what the rest of the league was worth without them...and that's a tiny fraction of what it is worth with them. As I said previously, this has emboldened them to the point whereby they know they have the PL and Sky over a barrel. They have an offer on the table for £310m plus a minimum £110m a season, even if they lose every Super League fixture. And, under the current system, why shouldn't they take it? Is this any worse than what has been happening to our game for the last 30 years? These billionaires have been lured in with the promise of a return on their investment and guess what, shock horror, they want to maximise every last cent!

Now, as I said right at the beginning, this is not an argument about the sporting merits of a ESL. I am saying let's really think about who is setting the narrative here. Do I personally want a 'closed shop' European Super League? Not particularly. But do I like this current version of Premier League football, dominated by oil money, plastic clubs and greed? That is equally disgusting and pointless in my opinion. So, by all means let's fight this, but let's not fight it just to return to the status quo created by Sky. The people behind the ESL, the people behind Sky Sports and the people behind the Premier League are two cheeks of the same arse. If we're going to boot these people out of football, let's really take back control of the game and have a real revolution.

We ought to be fighting for fan ownership of clubs, salary caps (whereby profits are reinvested in the game and local communities - not siphoned off by owners), restrictions on stockpiling players, restrictions of poaching young players, restrictions on the number of games, restrictions on the price of tickets, home-grown player rules in the starting XI, transfer caps...that's a true model of fairness and a level-playing field (or as near as it can/should be in competitive sport). If fighting the ESL means a return to the 'Premier League era' then no thanks, I can't be arsed, happy to just let the game go and let the monsters eat each other.
So, so true.

Those of us around at the time will remember all of this.
 

Bilbo

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Burnley, for example, have done an absolutely outstanding job and have been in the PL for 6/7 season now. However, during this period their highest league finish has been 7th, which is admittedly a remarkable achievement...but is that really 'competition',
Yes it is. Sorry to cherry pick one piece of a passionate post, but this is the problem in a nutshell. Burnley can finish 7th. Leicester can win the league, and West Ham will hopefully finish top 4. That is all going to be meaningless now and we shouldn't underestimate the damage that this is doing to these clubs. You are right that Sky are being hypocritical and protecting their golden goose, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong.


I'm sorry I can agree with parts of this but mostly its nothing like the set up of the PL, you cant just brush over the "closed shop part"
Nope. Its the whole thing here. Even if this super league had a 2 division system where the founders started in the top division and the second was made up of cup winners & high league finishers - with promotion/relegation as a possibility - it wouldn't be perfect but at least it would give everybody else a chance.
 
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A key part of your post is where you say you were too young to remember when the Premier League was established...

You pay no reference to the context of the times and WHY English football needed a rebrand.

English football was in a dire state during the 10 years leading up to the Premier League. Rampant hooliganism, racism, Hillsborough, Heysel, low attendance, financial problems.

It was a shit show and rapidly falling behind the other major leagues in terms of on the field quality and off the field finance.

The Premier League rebrand of the top flight has been a great success nearly 30 years. It's raised English football from the gutter to the best league in the world.

Yes more checks and balances should have been implemented along the way, that's on the FA for allowing financial parasites buying their way into the sport.

The Premier League has had it's issues, but silly to compare it to what the 'super' league clubs are trying to do.
 
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Mindhunter

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What if you were against the Glazers and everything else?
I was referring to the likes of UEFA, FIFA, Neville and all the folks who are shouting from rooftops at this completely ignoring the fact that the very reason this happened was because football was being taken over by capitalist owners or oligarchies/middle-east monarchs.

It’s not a long stretch from paying 180m for Neymar to this. These idiots claim that the soul of the game will be lost. Well they have been living under a rock.

Fair play to all fans who have been against the commercialisation of football including the formation of the PL, takeover by these owners, and expansion of the CL.
 

alexthelion

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I'm sorry I can agree with parts of this but mostly its nothing like the set up of the PL, you cant just brush over the "closed shop part". Yes Sky were greedy, chairmen were greedy (none more so than our own who made the bloody sky dishes) but the clubs involved in the break away for the PL did seek approval from the FA and didn't try to run the league themselves. They realised the new PL needed some authority in the form of the FA and teams that were selected to enter the PL were selected by performance not how much money they had. Yes the competition has only been won by a a select few teams but that s the way in most leagues in modern times, many teams hove been relegated and many smaller teams worked their way up to establish themselves in the top flight. The Football League has also benefited, there is no a second tear league in the world that comes close to The Championship.

Compare that to the set up of this new league that will ruin established European competitions, ruin domestic leagues, clubs will be selected on their ability to grow income not on performance, the league will be self regulated by the management of the founding teams and no founding team can ever be relegated.

Yes greed and money has been involved a lot more in English football since the PL was formed, but the same is in every league in the Europe, even Germany, but it has never been on the level of what is being proposed.
When the PL was first set up, it was also supposed to be a closed-shop. No different to the ESL.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Yes it is. Sorry to cherry pick one piece of a passionate post, but this is the problem in a nutshell. Burnley can finish 7th. Leicester can win the league, and West Ham will hopefully finish top 4. That is all going to be meaningless now and we shouldn't underestimate the damage that this is doing to these clubs. You are right that Sky are being hypocritical and protecting their golden goose, but that doesn't mean that they are wrong.




Nope. Its the whole thing here. Even if this super league had a 2 division system where the founders started in the top division and the second was made up of cup winners & high league finishers - with promotion/relegation as a possibility - it wouldn't be perfect but at least it would give everybody else a chance.
I'm not sure if your agreeing with me or not? :lol:
 

Eric_the_Red99

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Exactly.

History is told in stories and all stories have a beginning, middle and end.

The beginning of this greed in football was Murdoch's millions and the premier league inception.

22 Clubs decided in 1992 to royally feck over every other club in the land and line their own pockets.

As you rightly say, every single decision from every club owner, executive, player, manager and agents all contributed to this situation we are in now currently.
I’d even go as far as to say that we, as Premier League football fans, have been complicit as well. Anyone who has paid for a Sky subscription has played a part.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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When the PL was first set up, it was also supposed to be a closed-shop. No different to the ESL.
It may have been at some point in the initial conversations, but the point is they clubs sought the FAs approval to negotiate the set up, totally different to the ESL. There has been at least 1 proposal for the PL to be a closed shop since it was set up and each time the proposal was rejected out of hand by the FA.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/15336398

Again i am sure it was mentioned before also.
 

Jazz

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Spot on with the hypocrisy. Everyone is just protecting their patch. I guarantee some of these entities/folks against it would change their tune if they were offered a piece of the pie. That is the sad truth. None of these organisations/owners/press etc give no fecks for the fans.

One thing I disagree with. I'm not sure about fans being more involved. It's too easy for the press (especially in this country), to influence people. I think most fans would vote a certain way just because of their susceptibility to the tabloids' narrative, which I think would be a disaster.
 

Bilbo

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I'm not sure if your agreeing with me or not? :lol:
Agreeing mate. People can draw parallels to the introduction of the Premier League all they want, but as you say it was never a closed shop and that is everything here. I think we'll lose at least half of the professional clubs in England over the next decade if this goes through. There won't be enough money around to sustain them all.
 

shahzy

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Perfect. This is what I said when I commented that I want this to all blow up. The whole lot of it. Football is a joke with how its set up currently and how this proposed esl is going to be set up.
Scrap it all and start fresh. So much capitalistic greed. All clubs undertake the German 50+1 rule.
 

Chabon

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In the first 12 years of it's existence, before foreign ownership, Manchester United and Arsenal won the title 11 times, with the other going to Blackburn who were HEAVILY bankrolled by Jack Walker. Does that sound like an 'open' competition? Does that sound like an egalitarian, level-playing field for all? Of course not! It was only when Roman Abrahamovich came along with his ill-gotten billions that that dominance was broken, but even then after 19 years, only four teams had won the Premier League, two of them bankrolled by super rich individuals (turns out not through benevolent love for the game - shock!)..
This is a pretty wild misreading of the first decade or so of the Premiership. Arsenal and United were consistently outspent by other clubs throughout most of this period.

 

LilyWhiteSpur

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Agreeing mate. People can draw parallels to the introduction of the Premier League all they want, but as you say it was never a closed shop and that is everything here. I think we'll lose at least half of the professional clubs in England over the next decade if this goes through. There won't be enough money around to sustain them all.
Same page mate, iI don't know if u seen the other post, but I found this interesting... sheer cowardice from some clubs, mine probably included.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/15336398