The Double Draft - R1: Downcast vs Tuppet

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

...................................... TEAM DOWNCAST ................................................................................. TEAM TUPPET ......................................

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

TEAM DOWNCAST

The Theme - Italy / Argentine

Italian Argentines are Argentine-born citizens of Italian descent or Italian-born people who reside in Argentina. It is estimated up to 25 m Argentines have some degree of Italian descent (up to 62.5% of the total population), Italians began arriving in Argentina in great numbers from 1857 to 1940, totaling 44.9% of the entire immigrant population; more than from any other country (including Spain at 31.5%), and this migratory flow continued to the early 50s, with Italy also having the most emigrants to Argentina for the decades 1980–2000. Nevertheless, due to prior Spanish immigration occurring throughout the colonial period, the modern day Argentine population remains overwhelmingly Spanish in origin, with the 20 most common surnames in the country being all from Spain. The most common Italian surname (Rossi) is the 51st most common surname overall. Famous players with dual citizenship: Luis Monti, Zanetti, Heinze...

Not a pure coincidence to see some similarities in terms of style of play and way of living Fooball. The number of very successful Argentinian players in the Serie A is very high: Zanetti, Maradona, Sensini, Simeone, Crespo, Pastore, Lavezzi, Veron, Batistuta, Almeyda, Tevez, Trezeguet (made in Argentina: he left the country at the age of 17)...

Their fates are intertwined. What better place than the Stadio San Paulo to host Italy & the Argentina of Maradona for the SF of the WC 1990? Who was the main striker of the Juve in the 2000s? Trezeguet. In the 2010s? Tevez yesterday, Dybala now & Higuain tomorrow.

Here, it is all about Grinta, Tactical Awareness, Passion & the Art of Defending. If I'm successful, I will try to develop further this theme OR to find a new one!

The Song - Rodrigo 'La Mano de Dios'


Key considerations

- Zona Mista: proven successful tactical system with Italy (WC 1982 winner) & Juventus in the 80s
- The Ma-Pu-Ka attack is comprised of 3 top scorers (Puskas 4 times Pichichi, Maradona best top scorer of the Seria A in 1988 and Careca) against 2 top scorers for Tuppet (Romario, Stoickhov)
- No Maradona dependency since the versatile & generous Conti is not only a winger but someone with playmaking skills: he was the #10 of Italy at the WC 82
- 30% of the goals are scored on set-pieces: I possess Maradona & Robert Carlos depending the distance from the goal.
- Proven partnership: Maradona & Careca with Napoli (Serie A title, UEFA Cup..)
- Scirea-Ruggeri-Luis Monti able to isolate Romario from the others
- B. Schneider - who has never won a single trophy - will suffer here
- The work-rate of Tardelli & Conti are highly appreciated
- Winning spirit: 7 WC Winners part of my starting 11

The Starting XI

Diego Armando Maradona - Playmaking-Attacking Midfielder - The greatest footballer of all-time?


Ferenc Puskas - Inside-left Forward - The greatest Eastern European footballer?
"The Galloping Major" was one of the most prolific scorers ever: 662 Goals in 669 Games as a professional player. He had great striking technique and was a deadly goal finisher with his precision left-foot, maybe the greatest shooter ever. He operated his game as an inside-left and always performed a formidable ball control to the nearby penalty box area and shot by himself or assist to his teammate. He was also known for his professionalism, is one of the most consistency footballers, is one of the best players in the World in the highest age at 33 years old in 1960 and remained making scores until retirement at 39 year olds. He was both a prominent member and captain of the legendary Hungarian national team, known as the Mighty Magyars.

Careca - Target Striker - Succesful partnership with Maradona in Napoli
Careca was the greatest Brazilian Striker during the 1980s. He was an archetypal striker, had the technique and cottage to score many goals from all angles in the penalty box. Careca first broke into the national side of Brazil, and was forced to miss the 1982 World Cup due to an injury. Later, He had an excellent World Cup goal record on Brazilian team that finished just short of greatness. The Napoli team won the UEFA Cup, with Careca scoring a goal in each leg of the final, one a memorable lobbed goal, and finished second in Serie A.

Bruno Conti - A versatile winger with a high work-rate
Famous with his performance in World Cup 1982, was the second best attacker only to Paulo Rossi in that team. He could play as both left and right-winger well due to his great in both feet. Among the best in the world during his time, Conti was extremely fast, a great passer and a phenomenal dribbler. The greatest Italian winger.


Marco Tardelli - The greatest Italian 'pure defensive midfielder'

He was well known for his battling qualities, primarily his stamina and mentality as well as his ruthless tackling. He was also known for his technical abilities and his ability to score vital goals. Tardelli spent the majority of career part with Juventus in ten seasons and scored 51 goals. Tardelli is one of a few players in history to win all three titles of European competition. The greatest defensive midfielder in the World during the 1st half 1980s
World Cup Participation : 1978, 1982, 1986 (13 Games)
Individual Achievement : 1980 UEFA Euro Team Of Tournament

Luis Monti - The Destroyer or 'The Double Wide'
Considered as the greatest Half-Back in the pre-war era. Monti was gotten his nickname because of his coverage on the pitch, was a rugged and ruthless player, but had good technical skills to go with his strong tackling. He played as an attacking centre half in the old-fashioned Metodo system. As such he would mark the opposing centre forward when his team were defending, but would be the main midfield playmaker when his team was on the attack. He played in two World Cup finals with Argentina and Italy. A match against Austria in World Cup 1934 was one of the best remembered games of his, Monti responsible for marking Matthias Sindelar who was one of the greatest attackers in that era, This task was a lot of success completed.
World Cup Participation : 1930, 1934 (9 Games)
World Cup All-Star Team (1930, 1934)

Roberto Carlos - Offensive Left-Back in a "Zona Mista" tactical system
One of the most team decorated footballers & the best football entertainers. Famous for his powerful and banana free-kick, excellent technique, recuperation, high work-rate and speed. Awesome style of play.

Scrirea - One of top 5 greatest Sweepers of All-Time! My preferred defender

Graceful defender of great vision and ball controlling skills and tactical ability, played the sweeper, or libero, role for most of his career, and contributed to the development of this position initiated by Franz Beckenbauer in the 1970s.
World Cup Participation : 1978, 1982, 1986 (18 Games)
1980 UEFA Euro Best Defender


Ruggeri - CB
“The Big Headed One” was a CB who always gave his best and committed to marshalling a tight defense, skillful at marking and positioning and excellent in the air. He was an indispensable player to help Argentina to reach two consecutive World Cup final round. He is one of few players in history of the game to win 4 league titles with 4 different teams. In 1986, he is believed to be the best defender in the World for his performance help his team to win Copa Libertadores Cup and FIFA World Cup. He is also one of the three defenders in history to win South American footballer of the year award.
World Cup Participation : 1986, 1990, 1994 (16 Games)1986 South American Defender of The Year
1989 Spanish La Liga Player Of The Year
1991 Argentine League/Sportsman of The Year
1991 El Pais South American Footballer Of The Year

Wes Brown - RB- Legacy Player - Only one task 'Defend, defend and defend'
Born in Longsight, Manchester, Brown began his career with Manchester United, joining the club's academy at the age of 12 in 1992. After turning professional in 1996, he made his senior debut in 1998 and became a regular first team player during the 1998–99 season, when the club won the Treble. After a year-long hiatus due to injury, Brown became a regular fixture in the first team from 2000 onwards. Over the next 8 years, he won numerous honours, including four more Premier League titles, an FA Cup, a League Cup, and another Champions League.
PFA Premier League Team of the Year: 2000–01

Spoiler: Champions League Final 2008

Aphonse Areola - GK - Youth Player 23 years - The most promising French GK

2013/14: Lens - 2nd French division
2014/15: Bastia -1st French division (ranking 12th)
2015/16: Villareal - La Liga (ranking 4th) - 4th best defence with 35 goals conceded in 38 games
2016/17: PSG

http://www.sportskeeda.com/football/top-10-goalkeepers-of-the-201516-season

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

TEAM TUPPET

Tactic​

TL;DR​

Pretty standard 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation. Not aiming to play possession game or counter specifically, but aim to win ball high in midfield and utilize strong runs from midfield and wings to provide Romario as many chances as possible. A normal defensive line, with Marzolini & Santos playing defense first full back roles, while Marzolini specifically instructed to move forward at right moments. Midfield is full of tireless runners which provide energy, aggression & technical proficiency aiming to stifle opposition midfield and win possession back ASAP.

Attack mostly focused on wings, trying to punish the defensive weakness of Wes Brown against Stoichkov and Roberto Carlos (only relative to one of the greatest winger of all time) against Sir Stan. Overall I think we cover major threats of Downcast's team well (e.g. Puskas vs Djalma Santos or Maradona against a hard working aggressive midfield) and attack on their weak points, which could be the game decider.
Read on for a more detailed explanation.

Attack

​

Our attack is spearheaded by one of the greatest striker and the most prolific forward in the draft Romario. He would rekindle his dream team partnership with Stoichkov and would be supported from the right by Sir Stanley Matthews. Stoichkov's primary role would be probing around the right side of downcast's defense and stretching it create more space for Romario.

Sir Stan is the primary creator for my team - a role which he perfected in his career. As a dribbling genius he would engage and punish any left back (presumably Roberto Carlos who is not famed for his defensive prowess), and create opportunities for Romario, Stoichkov and an onrushing Robson by either cut-backs or crosses.

I will probably do a detailed profile on Matthews in the game but here is small selection of what some other greats of the game have to say about the man dubbed as "The Wizard" -

The man who taught us the way football should be played - Pele

He was my first hero and still would be my hero if he was here today. It was an absolute pleasure to stand and watch him play. - Sir Bobby Charlton

I grew up in an era when he was a god to those of us who aspired to play the game. He was a true gentleman and we shall never see his like again. - Brian Clough

It is not just in England where his name is famous. All over the world he is regarded as a true football genius. - Berti Vogts

He told me that he used to play for just twenty pounds a week. Today he would be worth all the money in the Bank of England. - Gianfranco Zola

Stanley Matthews is a perfectionist, and when he gets the ball he refuses to pass it just for the sake of passing it. He wants his colleagues to move into position, to get away from opponents into the right position for the pass that will bring a goal. If no one moves, Stan will hold the ball until everyone is in position. And no one can hold a ball like Stan. He has uncanny control, and looks quite happy when three or four men are around him. - Tommy Lowtown

In his moments he would tear a man apart, tear a team apart. - Sir Matt Busby

Engine Room

​

The midfield is comprised of 3 complete, hard-working and technically proficient midfielders in Robson, Schneider and Souness. An interesting feature of my midfield is that there is no designated playmaker or holding midfielder. All 3 of my midfielders are fantastic on ball. Robson does not need any introduction, while Schneider was called the white Brazilian because of his technical skills and Souness had great vision and passing for a hard man midfielder. Together Robson and Souness form the base to harass and dispossess Maradona at every opportunity.

Schneider provides both great work rate and attacking impetus from midfield with his passing. His long passing was particularly delightful. His role is more akin to Oscar role in recent years Chelsea midfield or Herrara role in United midfield to some extent. He is supposed to drift between the lines and make a mockery of pre-match line-ups. While the static tactical diagram shows him at the center of pitch he would be moving wide to receive possession allowing Stoichkov or Sir Stan to move inside, or drop deep allowing Robson to go on his runs. A role he played to perfection in world cup 2002 final.

While there is no real way to stop a peak Maradona, I believe to dampen him you need a proper aggressive yet disciplined midfield. I don't believe a single player can mark him out of the game by just sticking to him without getting sent off. But a midfield which will keep him unsettled on the ball and make him feel uncomfortable whenever he gets near it can limit his effectiveness. This is why I have chosen the 3 warriors in my midfield.

Finally a quick reminder of Robson's qualities, he rivals the likes of Keane for the tag of greatest United midfielder of all time. He is not limited to some sort of marking role on Maradona, he would provide hell of a threat from midfield himself and lest we forget he went against the midfield of Maradona and Schuster of Barcelona and came back the winner and man of the match winning the SF tie for United. Souness has won 3 European cup and captained Liverpool in their most successful era. Going head to head with fantastic European midfields with the support of the likes of Sammy lee. One of his best performance came against Roma in CL final against the midfield of Paul Falcao, Di Bartolomei and Toninho Cerezo. Together there is hardly a midfield which they can not match.

Defense

​

Defense is probably the strongest part of my team. Marshaled by world cup winning El Gran Capitán Passarella, who is complimented with the classy Itallian Ciro Ferrara this defense can hold its own against any attack. On the right wing is probably the greatest right back of all time, 2 times world cup champion and 3 times world cup team of the year Djalma Santos. Silvio Marzolini was a silky Argentine who was named left-back of the tournament by the press at World Cup '66. This is what Charlton has to say on him in his all-time XI:
"He was really difficult to play against. He wasn’t that fast, but his positioning was so good he didn’t need to be. He was very impressive to everyone at the World Cup in England. He had such good control that it gave him time and space to play the ball away safely."
While Marzolini was not an uber attacking wing back he was very good with the ball at feet, and can definitely pick up his moments to attack down the wing.

I am excited about Santos linking up with Stanley as I think this partnership is very close to the great Garrincha - Djalma Santos partnership. Sir Stan was a very similar player to Garrincha - A dribbling genius, somewhat of a ball hog who do not need the full back to overlap. This leaves Djalma Santos to mind the left forward of the team, who I am assuming would be Puskas. As great as Puskas was Djalma is pretty much the best defender I can think to counter him.

Finally my goalkeeper is Ter Stegen, although a no mark in all time context, he still has better credentials than opposition goal keeper Areola. Ter Stegen has won 2 Copa del rey and a champions league, while getting selected in Champions league team of the season in 2014-15, also winning UEFA save of the season award for 2014-15. He has made 6 senior appearances for Germany and at his young age, considering the golden goalkeeper generation Germany is having and competing with one of the GOAT goalkeepers in Neuer I don't think thats shabby at all.

In comparison Areola has no senior appearances for his country, and truly no real credentials to speak of at this level. There is only a year in age difference between the two, so that does not explains his lack of accomplishments. Its not much but all small things make a difference.

​

...CONTD

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

...CONT'D

Why would we win​

For this section I am making the assumption that Downcast would be playing with 2 forwards Careca/Vieri as spearhead (Likely Careca for his partnership with Maradona) with Conti on right wing and Puskas as left sided forward.

1. The Dagger: Hristo Stoichkov is a Ballon D'or winning forward who loves cutting inside. This puts him directly one on one with Wes Brown, there is no bigger mismatch on the pitch. Stoichkov would roast Brown with his power, explosiveness and dribbling. Sure Conti would provide some help but Stoichkov is not an orrthodox winger, he would cut inside and Conti would not be following him to the central areas, cause if he does it opens all of the left side for Marzolini or Robson. More likely Scirea is going to help Brown which would pull him wide on the right side a lot, leaving space for Romario to work his magic.

2. The Wizard: Sir Stan completely destroyed Nilton Santos, who was one of the top left backs of that time and is considered a level above Roberto Carlos defensively. And that's in his 40s, at his peak he was lightning uncorked. One of the finest dribbler of all time he would beat Carlos time and again, causing Ruggeri to scramble for support. Creating chances at will for Romario, one of the deadliest predator and he is against Areola here, any one on one chance against him would probably end up taken.
I would like to note here that I am not trying to imply that Carlos is a bad defender, but he is beaten because of who he is facing.

3. Containing opposition attack: Puskas is operating in the zone between Ferrara and Djalma Santos. Two of the finest defenders of their generation. Djalma is instructed to stay back and keep and eye on Puskas. Careca while is underrated is against Passarella and Ferrara, I don't see him getting much joy. Conti is amazing but is contained by another great defender in Marzolini. Now games are more fluid then this and not decided by one on ones but it still gives you an idea of the strength of our defense.

4. Midfield battle: As noted before we are not aiming to win the possession battle, so the function of our midfield is threefold - Firstly Try and contain Maradona, as hard as it is, Souness and Robson would give a good whack at it. Both have done it against some of the best midfielders including Maradona in case of Robson. Secondly win possession as early as possible, Robson - Souness also provide a pretty good screen in front of defense, while neither of them is a holding midfielder, they have played there career in won many trophies playing in 2 man midfield with inferior partners. Here they also have support of Schneider. Finally provide attacking threat from midfield, Robson specifically was superlative at making strong runs from midfield and Souness had a cracking shot on him. Combined this midfield would function better than the sum of its part.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

All the best @Downcast @Tuppet

Usual poll please @Rado_N Thanks in advance!

 

[Rado_N]

All the best @Downcast @Tuppet

Usual poll please @Rado_N Thanks in advance!

Done.

 

[Raees]

Both very good teams, first thought.. not sure about Puskas on left wing but Tuppet's side looks tactically spot on. Ferrera and Ruggeri, are they both considered physical or is one more of a sweeper/

 

[Gio]

Oooft now we're talking.

 

[Ecstatic]

DOWNCAST PLAYERS & the WC

1930 WC RUNNER-UP: Luis Monti with Argentina

1934 WC WINNER: Luis Monti with Italia

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=2016/m=3/news=the-unique-tale-of-luis-monti-2772055.html


1954 WC RUNNER-UP

1982 WC WINNERS - Please watch the goal of Tardelli and the contribution of Scirea & Conti

1986: WC WINNERS.

Maradona scored 6 goals against 5 for Careca.

1990 WC RUNNERS-UP

1998 WC RUNNER-UP

2002 WC WINNER

2018 WC WINNER

 

[Enigma_87]

Both very good teams, first thought.. not sure about Puskas on left wing but Tuppet's side looks tactically spot on. Ferrera and Ruggeri, are they both considered physical or is one more of a sweeper/

Both could be considered stoppers or conventional central defenders. Ruggeri was great in the air and more of a physical defender who liked to stuck in. You can say the same about Ferrara(worse in the air of course). Both would work fine alongside a sweeper in Scirea/Passarella mold.

 

[Ecstatic]

MA-PU-KA: THE NAME OF THE ACHELMY BETWEEN THREE TOP-SCORERS

MA-MARADONA

Caps : 91 Games (34 Goals/28 Assists)
Professional Score Record : 304 Goals/ 583 Games
World Cup Participation : 1982,86,90, 94 (21 Games/8 Goals/8 Assists)

Spoiler: Maradona Profile

Date Of Birth : 30 October 1960
Nation : Argentina
Height : 167 cm
Major Club : Argentinos Junior, Napoli
Club Honours : 2 Times Italian Series A
1 Time Argentina Primera Division
1 Time Copa Del Rey, 1 Time Copa Italia, 1989 UEFA Cup
International Honours : 1986 FIFA World Cup Winners
1990 FIFA World Cup Runner-Up

Individual Achievement

3 Times Argentinean League Top Scorer (1979, 1980, 1981)
4 Times Argentina Footballer of The Year (1979, 1980, 1981, 1986)
1979 South American League Top Scorer
6 Times El Mundo South American Footballer of The Year
(1979, 1980, 1986, 1989, 1990, 1992), (1982 Silver Ball, 1983 Bronze Ball)
1985 Guerin Italian Series A Footballer of The Year
FIFA World Cup : 1986 Golden Ball, 1990 Bronze Ball
2 Times Argentine Sportsman of the Year (1979, 1986)
1986 L'Equippe World Sportsman of The Year
World Soccer Player of The Year : 1986 Gold, 1987 Silver, 1985 and 1990 Bronze
1986 United Press International Athletic of The Year
1988 Italian Series A Top Scorer
1999 Argentine Sports Writers' Sportsman of The Century
1998 FIFA World Team of The Century
1999 Silver Ball World Soccer Player of The Century
1999 Silver Ball France Football’s Footballer of The Century
1999 IFFHS Argentina Player of The Century
2000 FIFA Best Football Player of The Century
2002 FIFA World Cup All-Time Team
Napoli - Italian Series A Greatest Player Ever

A Phenomenon footballer, who led a normal-level team in Italy to be Champion with his own abilities, He was a ball wizard who had incredible touch and control of the ball. His genius was as a creator of opportunities assisted by exceptional passing technique. His most famous was a wonderful dribbling, several times could get pass defenders easily. Over the course of his professional club career Maradona played for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, Barcelona, Newell's Old Boys and Napoli, setting world-record contract fees. In his international career, In the World Cup 1986's quarter-final round he scored two goals in a 2-1 victory over England that entered soccer history, though for two very different reasons. The first goal was an unpenalized handball known as the "Hand of God", while the second goal was a spectacular 60-metre weave through six England players, commonly referred to as "The Goal of the Century". For various reasons, Maradona is considered one of the sport's most controversial and newsworthy figures. He was suspended from football for 15 months in 1991 after failing a doping test for cocaine in Italy, and he was sent home from the 1994 World Cup in the USA for using ephedrine. Maradona is believed to reach World-Class around 8 seasons in domestic club and the most winners in the distinctive World Player of The Year and his 1984 - 1985 individual season at Napoli is considered as one of the best ever. He finished second place in World Soccer Player of The Century and France Football Player of The Century.

PU-PUSKAS: he used to perform well with another striker like Kocsis, a target striker

Caps : 85 Games (84 Goals)
Professional Score Record : 662 Goals/ 669 Games
World Cup Participation : 1954 (6 Games / 4 Goals)

Spoiler: Puskas Profile

Date Of Birth : 2 April 1927
Nation : Hungary, Position : Forward
Height : 174 cm,
Major Club : Real Madrid
Caps : 85 Games (84 Goals)
Professional Score Record : 662 Goals/ 669 Games
World Cup Participation : 1954 (6 Games / 4 Goals)
Club Honours : 5 Times Hungarian League
5 Times Spanish La Liga, 1 Time Copa Del Rey
2 Times European Cup Runner-Up (1962, 1964)
3 Times European Cup Winners (1959, 1960, 1966)
1960 Intercontinental Cup
International Honours : 1952 Olympic Games Gold Medal
1953 Central European International Cup
1954 FIFA World Cup Runner-Up

Individual Achievement

4 Times Hungarian league Top Scorer
4 Times Spanish La Liga Top Scorer
3 Times European Cup Top Scorer (1960, 1962, 1964)
1948 European - World League Top Scorer
1953 Central European International Cup Top Scorer
L’Equipe European Footballer of The Century
1960 Silver Ball European Footballer of The Year
1994 FIFA World Cup All-Time Team
1999 IFFHS Hungary Player of The Century
Hungarian League Greatest Player Ever
Hungary All-Time Top Scorer
UEFA Jubilee Awards (Hungary)

He was voted 6th the greatest player of the century by IFFHS’s poll and 7th by World Soccer and France Football’s poll.

CA-CARECA

World Cup Participation : 1982, 1986, 1990 (9 Games / 7 goals)
Nation : Brazil, Caps : 60 Games (29 Goals)
Professional Score Record : 196 Goals/ 351 Games

Spoiler: Careca - Profile

Date Of Birth : 5 October 1960
Height : 183 cm,
Position : Target Striker Major Club : Napoli, Sao Paulo
Club Honours :
2 Times Brazil National Championship
2 Times Brazil State Championship
1 Time Italian Series A,
1 Time Copa Italia,
1989 UEFA Cup
International Honours :
1983 Copa America Runner-Up
Individual Achievement : 1985 Brazilian State
Top Scorer 1986 Brazilian National League
Top Scorer 1986 Brazilian League Footballer of The Year 1986
Silver Ball South American Footballer of The Year.

He also won the 1990 World Cup qualification in COMEBOL zone and the 1986 World Cup Silver Shoe, finished 4th and 5th South American Footballer of the Year in 1989 and 1990 respectively.

MA-PU-KA UPGRADED VERSION OF THE 'MAGICA'

Careca moved from Brazil to Italian Serie A champions Napoli, where he was part of the "Ma-Gi-Ca" forward lineup: Maradona + Giordano + Careca.

ALL THE ASSISTS FOR CARECA AND THE OTHERS


TACTICAL MANOEUVRE/ MARADONA+CARECA +...'PUSKAS WHO SCORED' - HERE GOAL SCORED DURING THE FINAL OF THE UEFA CUP IN 1990

 

[Ecstatic]

All the best @Tuppet

Thanks @Edgar Allan Pillow @Rado_N

 

[Ecstatic]

Both very good teams, first thought.. not sure about Puskas on left wing but Tuppet's side looks tactically spot on. Ferrera and Ruggeri, are they both considered physical or is one more of a sweeper/

I understand your concern. He won't play as a winger but as a left-footed 'second striker'.

I think he needs to play with another striker in order to get a greater freedom of action outside the penalty area.

Puskas with Hungary: a kind of '4-4-2' where the target man was kocsis.

 

[Physiocrat]

Initial thoughts, these teams are great. I do have a slight tactical issue with Marzolini attacking brief next to Passarella. It limits the latter to foray forward unless you're left open at the back. We must remember he had an incredible goalscoring record for a CB.

 

[Tuppet]

Best of luck @Downcast

 

[Tuppet]

Initial thoughts, these teams are great. I do have a slight tactical issue with Marzolini attacking brief next to Passarella. It limits the latter to foray forward unless you're left open at the back. We must remember he had an incredible goalscoring record for a CB.

He does not have an attacking brief though. As noted in the tactic

A normal defensive line, with Marzolini & Santos playing defense first full back roles

The arrow merely shows that when provided with space Marzolini is more likely to move forward than Djalma Santos, who would be making a third defender on the pitch. I have selected both Marzolini and Djalma as 2 of the most balanced fullbacks specifically keeping Passarella's propensity to move forward.

 

[Ecstatic]

MA-PU-KA: THE NAME OF THE ACHELMY BETWEEN THREE TOP-SCORERS

MA-PU-KA UPGRADED VERSION OF THE 'MAGICA'

Careca moved from Brazil to Italian Serie A champions Napoli, where he was part of the "Ma-Gi-Ca" forward lineup: Maradona + Giordano + Careca.

Giordano was a forward known for being the Serie A Top scorer in 1978-79. The Ma-Gi-Ca has won

• UEFA Cup: 1989
• Serie A: 1990
• Supercoppa Italiana: 1990

That is why, I believe in the trio Maradona-Puskas-Careca. The idea is to have a strong midfield with a high work-rate to support them.

 

[Ecstatic]

Always a freekick specialist depending the distance from the goal

 

[harms]

Brilliant teams. Can't separate them at the moment, will see how it goes.

 

[Enigma_87]

From first glance I really like both teams.

For downcast team I'd prefer more of a box to box player instead of Tardelli while for tuppet I'd have Schneider on the right and Laudrup in the middle. I can understand the decision behind dropping Laudrup to give an extra width, but Schneider is perfectly capable of providing that, albeit inferior player.

 

[harms]

For downcast team I'd prefer more of a box to box player instead of Tardelli

Who is more box-to-box than Tardelli? Tardelli is very similar to Keane and other "defensive" box-to-box midfielders in his style. Bonini, Furino etc were defensive midfielders and Tardelli was an all-action midfielder with a decent goalscoring output

 

[Gio]

From first glance I really like both teams.

For downcast team I'd prefer more of a box to box player instead of Tardelli while for tuppet I'd have Schneider on the right and Laudrup in the middle. I can understand the decision behind dropping Laudrup to give an extra width, but Schneider is perfectly capable of providing that, albeit inferior player.

I can see the rationale for Tuppet dropping Laudrup for Matthews. A ballsy move but an interesting one given Stan's intricacy and the potential to skip past Carlos at times (nowhere near to the extent suggested in the OP in fairness, but a potential route to goal regardless). My memories of Tardelli were that he was a box-to-box player, and really Downcast's midfield looks near perfect in supporting Maradona.

 

[Enigma_87]

Who is more box-to-box than Tardelli? Tardelli is very similar to Keane and other "defensive" box-to-box midfielders in his style. Bonini, Furino etc were defensive midfielders and Tardelli was an all-action midfielder with a decent goalscoring output

More of an attacking goal threat than Tardelli or in other words someone like Robson, Vidal, etc.

 

[Raees]

I love the fact he's added 'Sir' to Matthews. we have a knight on the pitch.. beat that.

 

[Raees]

Both could be considered stoppers or conventional central defenders. Ruggeri was great in the air and more of a physical defender who liked to stuck in. You can say the same about Ferrara(worse in the air of course). Both would work fine alongside a sweeper in Scirea/Passarella mold.

Thanks, thought so. Such an idiot, I misread the lineups at first glance and thought they're playing together. Both defensive partnerships look damn good.. top top quality sweepers paired with well reknowned stoppers.

 

[Enigma_87]

I can see the rationale for Tuppet dropping Laudrup for Matthews. A ballsy move but an interesting one given Stan's intricacy and the potential to skip past Carlos at times (nowhere near to the extent suggested in the OP in fairness, but a potential route to goal regardless). My memories of Tardelli were that he was a box-to-box player, and really Downcast's midfield looks near perfect in supporting Maradona.

Yeah as I said I can understand him dropping Laudrup, has more grit and work rate in midfield probably with the idea behind neutralizing Maradona. He's losing his natural playmaker but probably better for the team.

Tardelli was box to box, as harms pointed out, my idea was to have a more attacking b2b as another(or better say bigger) goal source from deep, as most likely the zone in the box and right in front of it will be crowded by Tuppet.

Although of course there is rationale between playing Tardelli and Monti there to set the stage for Maradona. It's pretty much the same approach as Tardelli playing in Platini's Juve with either Bonini or Furino next to him.

It's more of a nitpick at this stage, as both teams look very solid and can't separate them apart.

 

[Gio]

I love the fact he's added 'Sir' to Matthews. we have a knight on the pitch.. beat that.

Yeah, smart move - it gives Sir Stan even more gravitas on that teamsheet.

 

[Gio]

I like Souness and Robson too though in fairness. That was pretty much the dream midfield partnership that British football could have conjured up in the 1980s. Terry McDermott was a bloody good player, and Robson shares many of the same qualities but ramps it up a couple of notches.

 

[Ecstatic]

Who is more box-to-box than Tardelli? Tardelli is very similar to Keane and other "defensive" box-to-box midfielders in his style. Bonini, Furino etc were defensive midfielders and Tardelli was an all-action midfielder with a decent goalscoring output

Yeah, Tardelli was a warrior on the pitch, an elegant one on top of that (For example, Matuidi is not 'elegant' with the ball despite his work rate).

The #8 Tardelli used to play between the #10 Platini and the #6 Bonini with the successful Juve of the 80s.

Bonini + Tardelli to protect/support Boniek/Platini/Bettega/Rossi
Monti + Tardelli to protect/support Ma-Pu-Ka + Conti

Marco Tardelli
Tardelli operated as a first-class defensive midfielder for Italy. The battling player, who was famed for is tireless running, claimed World Cup glory in 1982 as the Azzurri saw off Germany. Overall, he featured on the world stage 13 times, scoring twice - one of those strike famously coming the final and followed by a marvellous celebration.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/18622/6097485

 

[P-Nut]

Reading through these opening posts is crazy. Please don't expect the same from myself as there is no way I'll be going into that much detail!

 

[Raees]

I like Souness and Robson too though in fairness. That was pretty much the dream midfield partnership that British football could have conjured up in the 1980s. Terry McDermott was a bloody good player, and Robson shares many of the same qualities but ramps it up a couple of notches.

Agreed. In terms of British midfield pairings, it is arguably the best pairing not just of the 80s but possibly all time. If you added bobby Charlton in front of them two, it would be perfect.

My worry for Tuppet is that as good as his team is tactically, Monti and Tardelli are absolutely brilliant and also proven at international level, not to mention their roles are better defined i,e. ones a clear DM, one is a clear B2B and to top it off, they have Diego Maradona in front of them which would mean that Robbo and Robson would really need to be disciplined to try and keep him quiet and personally I don't think they would be able to.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

@Tuppet

To what extent are your midfield going to look after maradona? is it all 3 or any combination of 2?

 

[Tuppet]

I love the fact he's added 'Sir' to Matthews. we have a knight on the pitch.. beat that.

Just etiquette

Agreed. In terms of British midfield pairings, it is arguably the best pairing not just of the 80s but possibly all time. If you added bobby Charlton in front of them two, it would be perfect.

My worry for Tuppet is that as good as his team is tactically, Monti and Tardelli are absolutely brilliant and also proven at international level, not to mention their roles are better defined i,e. ones a clear DM, one is a clear B2B and to top it off, they have Diego Maradona in front of them which would mean that Robbo and Robson would really need to be disciplined to try and keep him quiet and personally I don't think they would be able to.

I don't suppose anyone can keep him quiet at his peak but that would not be because of a lack of discipline though. The need of a purely holding midfielder is an overly stated point in these drafts when the likes of Robson and Souness have had so much success playing in 2 man midfields and no Makelele to partner them with. For example -


But on a general point I don't really disagree with you. Downcast's midfield is absolutely as good as it gets, which is why we try to take the game away from there as much as possible and to the wings. Where it would be equally hard for Carlos and Brown to keep quiet Stoichkov and Matthews.

 

[Tuppet]

@Tuppet

To what extent are your midfield going to look after maradona? is it all 3 or any combination of 2?

There is no man marking Maradona if thats what you are asking. But yeah of all of them are aware of his genius and would work their bollocks off to harry him off the ball as soon as possible.

 

[Physiocrat]

He does not have an attacking brief though. As noted in the tactic



The arrow merely shows that when provided with space Marzolini is more likely to move forward than Djalma Santos, who would be making a third defender on the pitch. I have selected both Marzolini and Djalma as 2 of the most balanced fullbacks specifically keeping Passarella's propensity to move forward.

OK fair enough. I was misinterpreting his arrow. That said I would prefer a more of a Djalma on the left too to allow Passarella to do as he sees fit but if you did that it would keep Stoichkov wider than is ideal.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I like tuppet's midfield, in terms of tenacity it's as good as you're likely to get. I think Robson and Souness in serie A teams when Maradona was at his best would have helped him be somewhat less brilliant. Scirea and Brown Vs Stoichkov and Romario is the interesting match-up for me, the only thing is if your team wanted to get creative tuppet, it would have to be through stanley matthews as it's not going to come from that midfield 3. I could see stoichkov being a little bit anonymous in this set up.

 

[Tuppet]

OK fair enough. I was misinterpreting his arrow. That said I would prefer a more of a Djalma on the left too to allow Passarella to do as he sees fit but if you did that it would keep Stoichkov wider than is ideal.

Well I kinda disagree that you need 2 Djalma Santos on full back positions to accommodate Passarella. I would equate the role of Marzolini here similar to the role of Tarintini in his world cup squad. If memory serve correctly in Fiorentina he used to have Carboni on left and Gentile on right, again a fairly similar lineup to what we have here. When attacking on the left side Stoichkov has the choice to cut inside and when there is that space on left any of Marzolini, Robson or Schneider would fill it in. Thats how I envisage the attacking to go from that side.

One of my observations when I was researching on Passarella was that he was a defender's defender first and a sweeper/libero later. He was much more aggressive stopper than say Kaiser or Scirea, who were more dominant and control the game from back.

 

[Tuppet]

I like tuppet's midfield, in terms of tenacity it's as good as you're likely to get. I think Robson and Souness in serie A teams when Maradona was at his best would have helped him be somewhat less brilliant. Scirea and Brown Vs Stoichkov and Romario is the interesting match-up for me, the only thing is if your team wanted to get creative tuppet, it would have to be through stanley matthews as it's not going to come from that midfield 3. I could see stoichkov being a little bit anonymous in this set up.

I think that's right and my team can surely do worse than having Stanley Matthews as primary creator but I am not sure why Stoichkov is anonymous in this set up when he is likely facing the weakest defender on the pitch ?

 

[Raees]

From the research I have done on Marzolini, he is a very balanced full back and a solid defender. So I see no issues with him next to Passarella.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I think that's right and my team can surely do worse than having Stanley Matthews as primary creator but I am not sure why Stoichkov is anonymous in this set up when he is likely facing the weakest defender on the pitch ?

welk maybe not anonymous . Wes brown is obviously the weakest player on the pitch ( IMO) so if you attack him often , Matthews won't be put to as much good use . The lack of a creative force in the middle means you don't have someone playing forward who can mix it up in terms of feeding stoichkov/ Matthews .