The Drug War/Legalising Drugs

[Nobby style]

I think Colombia and Mexico should just say feck you and legalize drugs and start taxing the massive profits and launder the money in their own banks if no one's going to jail in light of the HSBC scandal. What a fecking sham.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gangster-bankers-too-big-to-jail-20130214

Gangster Bankers: Too Big to Jail

How HSBC hooked up with drug traffickers and terrorists. And got away with it

. . . What is different about this settlement is that the Justice Department, for the first time, admitted why it decided to go soft on this particular kind of criminal. It was worried that anything more than a wrist slap for HSBC might undermine the world economy. “Had the U.S. authorities decided to press criminal charges,” said Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer at a press conference to announce the settlement, “HSBC would almost certainly have lost its banking license in the U.S., the future of the institution would have been under threat and the entire banking system would have been destabilized.

 

[adexkola]

It's been a massive failure here in the states.

 

[Nobby style]

Partly as a result, the money that states spend on prisons has risen at six times the rate of spending on higher education in the past 20 years. In 2011, California spent $9.6 billion on prisons vs. $5.7 billion on the UC system and state colleges. Since 1980, California has built one college campus and 21 prisons. A college student costs the state $8,667 per year; a prisoner costs it $45,006 a year.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2109777,00.html#ixzz2LD89kfoO

 

[Ramshock]

feck sake July is too long to wait for Breaking Bad to return

 

[esmufc07]

Really interesting article, and at the same time depressing.

 

[Silva]

feck sake July is too long to wait for Breaking Bad to return

Sure is.

 

[Nobby style]

For those of you with an interest in investigative journalism or for whatever reason, here's a bit history on the drug war concerning the Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Gary Webb who wrote the Dark Alliance articles for the San Jose Mercury News in the 90s on the connection between the Reagan government, the CIA and drug trafficking in the 80s. Webb ended up depressed and allegedly shooting himself in the head.

Info on Gary Webb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Alliance

The actual Dark Alliance articles: http://www.mega.nu/ampp/webb.html

There's loads of names, events, etc that can be googled from these these links to further explore this topic.

From personal experience, I can honestly say that I know several "decent" older guys here in Colombia who for one reason or another were involved with trafficking in the 80s when it was a new, easy money thing and wasn't such a life threatening or jail threatening affair as it would soon become, made their money and got the hell out and invested their drug dosh in other normal business pursuits. All of them to a man say it was common knowledge at the time that loads of cocaine and money were flowing into and through the Contras and Nicaragua which made things much easier and a lot less dangerous, and at best, the CIA was looking the other way, and at worst, was actively participating in the actual trafficking. It also involves ex CIA stooge General "cara de piña" Noriega who ended up getting too big for his britches and which ended in a US invasion of Panama in 89.

The massive influx of cocaine into the US, especially into L.A. in the early 80s, and the ensuing deadly crack cocaine explosion, would certainly point to something strange, as would the Reagan government's obsession with Nicaragua and the Contras. I mean, if Reagan and co. and all those borderline criminals like Oliver North were secretly selling arch enemy Iran missiles after the US had been humiliated by them in the hostage crisis a few years earlier to fund the Contras, it wouldn't be too difficult to suppose they'd be capable of allowing drug trafficking to fund them as well.

Particularly galling is St. Ronald Reagan's status as drug warrior, "just say no" campaigner, and conservative family values hero, and just the disgusting hypocrisy of the United States drug war policy and all those bursting at the seems prisons the US tax payer is obliged to "spend" on.

Another interesting name to wiki in all of this is the original Rick Ross, "freeway" Ricky Ross, L.A. crack legend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/"Freeway"_Rick_Ross

 

[Andrew~]

Interesting shit Nobby Style! I've always been against the drug war so yeah.

Coincidentally (since you're from Colombia), I had a 'thing' with a Colombian girl last year... Great times!

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Legalizing Drugs

Personally I dont take drugs, dont even smoke weed anymore, but its plainly obvious to anyone with eyes that...in the UK at least the "war on drugs" is a loosing battle with no end in sight.

If ALL drugs were to be legalized would it lead to an increase of users? Im sure as feck I wouldnt suddenly start using smack for example as Im sure most of you wouldnt. And from the tax revenue raised which last year was about 2.6 billion for cigarettes according to HMRC figures we could afford to subsidise those who feel no other option but to go through life fecked, or to help those who want to quit. £10 on a line of charlie, £5 on every bag of weed and we would be in a much healthier financial situation. (Obviously Im over simplifying but...)

Add to that the obvious bonus' of takking the drugs trade away from organised crime syndicates and the implication of strict legislation and quality control its an appealing option, no?

What does the caf think?

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Look at Holland.

 

[thegregster]

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

 

[PatrickP]

I have been for legalising drugs for a while. I have never taken drugs before and it wouldn't make me want to start (I haven't felt the urge to smoke even though that is legal either)

With it being legal I think more can be put in place to make sure the drugs are "safer" than those that get passed around by dealers currently.

I think it would also be helpful that users would not need to rely on dealers to get their fix as it could be sold over the counter.

From my little knowledge on drugs, is it true that most people die from drugs due to contaminated drugs and not knowing the risks involved? legalistaion could combat that

 

[Sassy Colin]

You can't spell!

 

[Adebesi]

For me it is so self evident it is barely even debatable. All drugs should be legalised.

One day, probably not soon but one day, it will happen, and people will look back at the current insanity in much the same way as they look at prohibition in America.

 

[sammymc]

Look at Holland.

and what? good or bad?

 

[esmufc07]

Not legalise but decriminalise. Sadly no Government will ever try to pass it.

 

[Scrumpet]

May as well I suppose, though it would make little difference to my life.

 

[Rams]

First all I think we should make a distinction between the drugs. One drug does not compare to another drug.
For instance, I think it's ridiculous that hash is illegal. On the other hand, I think it would be a bad idea to leaglise cocaine or heroin for example.

 

[Eyepopper]

Look at Holland.

Look at Portugal.

 

[Eyepopper]

Current policy doesn't work in any way but personally I don't think over night legalisation would be a good idea apart from with weed, which is freely available and widely used anyway (and policing it is nothing more than a giant waste of time).

Substance use and abuse is something secondary level students should be taught at schoolto better educate the age group who face the greatest risk, then 5-6 years after its introduction legalisation of more serious drugs could be considered. That assumes that personal development should be part of education of course.

 

[Nobby style]

Look at Colombia. Look at Mexico.

 

[Pexbo]

They need to do a hell of a lot more in schools than say "drugs are very bad and they WILL ruin your life and they WILL kill you if you take them and you WILL be lead on to harder drugs."

I think most people reach that age where they realise that actually no, smoking weed won't kill you and when you realise that over a million pills are taken every weekend and less than 20 deaths happen from ecstasy each year it's actually not a big risk. You then start to question why they have to lie to you to stop you from doing them.

I take drugs, not as much as I used to and the only thing that bothers me about doing it is the worry of who got hurt down the chain. What poor soul got forced to harvest ingredients, make or smuggle it? If it wasn't illegal, a lot less innocent people would get hurt.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Look at Portugal.

You look at Portugal, I'm still watching Holland

 

[brewlio]

They need to do a hell of a lot more in schools than say "drugs are very bad and they WILL ruin your life and they WILL kill you if you take them and you WILL be lead on to harder drugs."

Agreed. Kids should be made aware at an early age that there's a lot of money to be made from selling them and a fantastic lifestyle if you don't get caught.

 

[esmufc07]

Agreed. Kids should be made aware at an early age that there's a lot of money to be made from selling them and a fantastic lifestyle if you don't get caught.

 

[esmufc07]

They need to do a hell of a lot more in schools than say "drugs are very bad and they WILL ruin your life and they WILL kill you if you take them and you WILL be lead on to harder drugs."

I think most people reach that age where they realise that actually no, smoking weed won't kill you and when you realise that over a million pills are taken every weekend and less than 20 deaths happen from ecstasy each year it's actually not a big risk. You then start to question why they have to lie to you to stop you from doing them.

I take drugs, not as much as I used to and the only thing that bothers me about doing it is the worry of who got hurt down the chain. What poor soul got forced to harvest ingredients, make or smuggle it? If it wasn't illegal, a lot less innocent people would get hurt.

But there's still a chance you can die from taking a single pill, which is what makes it so feckin stupid in the first place. Why take the risk however small? One of my mates who I go out with insists on have ecstasy each time we go out and I tell him he's a feckin idiot.

 

[Pexbo]

 

[Eyepopper]

But there's still a chance you can die from taking a single pill, which is what makes it so feckin stupid in the first place. Why take the risk however small? One of my mates who I go out with insists on have ecstasy each time we go out and I tell him he's a feckin idiot.

While you're supping a pint?

People die from loads of stuff, thats not to say anything that can potentially kill you should be made illegal, even if making it illegal doesn't discourage use and is impossible to police.

It also ignores the question of how many deaths could potentially be avoided (and general use made safer) by manufacturing standards and controls.

I did ecstacy for years and thankfully never had a bad experience, there were often nights when I was out where you'd see a couple of lads, pissed up, beating 7 shades of shite out of each other, never encountered that with anything other than drink.

 

[Pexbo]

But there's still a chance you can die from taking a single pill, which is what makes it so feckin stupid in the first place. Why take the risk however small? One of my mates who I go out with insists on have ecstasy each time we go out and I tell him he's a feckin idiot.

Of course there is a risk, there's a risk each time you swim in the sea that a current my take you out but you still do it, because its fun. I've probably taken E a hundred or so times in various forms as have a lot of my friends and aside from having some rubbish gear that doesn't give the desired effect, none of us have ever had a bad experience. It's the papers sensationalism that give it the scary image of one pill and you're dead. A lot of the time it's the person being unlucky and having an adverse reaction. Everyone knows there is a risk trying nuts for the first time as some people have severe alergies but it doesn't stop people trying them. Now I'm not saying its an alergy to the E, but it's a comparible risk.

 

[esmufc07]

I see where you're coming from and I've no doubt fewer deaths would occur if controls were in place and that's why I'm for the Government decriminalising drugs and making sure they're safer and we know what's in them. I've no doubting the papers sensationalise it, like I say though I don't know why people would take it knowing there's a small chance they may die through it. If I drink alcohol I'm unlikely to die unless I drink an absolutely stupid amount and poison myself.

 

[Forevergiggs]

Cannabis - Yes. Hard drugs - No.

 

[Arruda]

Legalizing and decriminalizing (is it with an s or a z? my spell checker allows both) are different things. I'm for legalization of light drugs and decriminalization of hard ones.

 

[brewlio]

Cannabis - Yes. Hard drugs - No.

Poor argument. For example you could get someone that's perfectly comfortable hoovering up copious amounts of coke but the psychoactive THC in the weed could send them crazy and do all sorts of mental shit. It's as long as it is broad when you come to mind altering substances, alcohol included. People become both physically and psychologically addicted to the cannabinoids much the same they do with opiates and stimulants (whether they are aware of it or not), they also commit crimes to feed their usage. Weed, smack, coke, whatever. The only difference is that some drugs are classified differently by law. What exactly are hard drugs, and more to the point what makes them hard?

 

[Adebesi]

What exactly are hard drugs, and more to the point what makes them hard?

Because they saw a sexy girl drug with her top off?

 

[I'm always right]

Poor argument. For example you could get someone that's perfectly comfortable hoovering up copious amounts of coke but the psychoactive THC in the weed could send them crazy and do all sorts of mental shit. It's as long as it is broad when you come to mind altering substances, alcohol included. People become both physically and psychologically addicted to the cannabinoids much the same they do with opiates and stimulants (whether they are aware of it or not), they also commit crimes to feed their usage. Weed, smack, coke, whatever. The only difference is that some drugs are classified differently by law. What exactly are hard drugs, and more to the point what makes them hard?

I think we can all agree that smack is a harder drug than weed. Pretty certain we don't need the law classifications for that. Meth too.

 

[Sunny Jim]

I want drugs to be legal. Frist and foremost it's my body and my life- what i do to it / with it should be my case. The state for some reasons decides what's better for me.

Just think about it - you need prescription to buy certain drugs at pharmacy....why? AS i said - we are being treated like slaves.

I want drugs to be legal as it would got thousands on state employees people fired and would save lives of hundreds of drug wars victims.

As i said - i believe in personal liberty and would love to see drugs fully legal. I wouldn't take them but people who wish so should have a chance to do so.

 

[Phurry]

is it with an s or a z? my spell checker allows both

S, z is an American abhoration

 

[I'm always right]

I want drugs to be legal. Frist and foremost it's my body and my life- what i do to it / with it should be my case. The state for some reasons decides what's better for me.

Just think about it - you need prescription to buy certain drugs at pharmacy....why? AS i said - we are being treated like slaves.

I want drugs to be legal as it would got thousands on state employees people fired and would save lives of hundreds of drug wars victims.

As i said - i believe in personal liberty and would love to see drugs fully legal. I wouldn't take them but people who wish so should have a chance to do so.

So the extra strain on the health service etc for the smack heads? Taking drugs doesn't just effect one's self Sunny Jim.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I want drugs to be legal. Frist and foremost it's my body and my life- what i do to it / with it should be my case. The state for some reasons decides what's better for me.
Just think about it - you need prescription to buy certain drugs at pharmacy....why? AS i said - we are being treated like slaves.

I want drugs to be legal as it would got thousands on state employees people fired and would save lives of hundreds of drug wars victims.

As i said - i believe in personal liberty and would love to see drugs fully legal. I wouldn't take them but people who wish so should have a chance to do so.

It's not so much that, it's more what's better for the state (it all comes down to money) but they will try spouting reasons such as when on drugs you/people affect others differently, more insulting/agressive etc also its quite common for 'harder drug users' to get involved in violence when picking up if your getting into naughty bits... Can understand the town don't want all that shit, but I suppose if it was legal, a lot of that would go away...

Meh, FWIW I am with you, but that may be influenced by the odd partaking of a puff.

 

[Adebesi]

Legalised drugs = taxed drugs = more money for hospitals.

Anyway, who's saying there would be an extra strain? Over time you might see less ODs, less adverse reactions to the weird shit drugs are cut with etc.