The EL final loss: a measured response

[largelyworried]

We have real issues with squad quality and with breaking down defences. This has been true for some time.

Things like which goalkeeper could have done better in a shootout and the best time to swap a better but tired player with a worse but fresh one - these are pointless what-ifs with no real way of knowing what difference they could have made.

 

[Siorac]

Ole bought 2 of these players for squad depth if nothing else. If you can't rely on them to come off for an impact, you have to question the decision making.

Yeah, it's a bit of an odd defence for the manager (and let's face it, that's all this thread is) that 'he can't rely on his own signings in a final'. It honestly feels more like an attack on him than a defence.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

They had their share of fans who defended their every move. Mourinho in particular had quite the cult.

I defended all three at certain stages but also realised when all three were out of their depths and with regards to one, out of their minds.

 

[macheda14]

The starting lineup
Again, i disagree. I and plenty of others posted before the game that we were worried about Lindelof and Fred with no screening midfielder, and McTominay and Pogba in a two. We were right. We've played a certain way with success this season but we changed it for the biggest game.

Fred took a knock so couldn't start the game. The goal we conceded was the result of a free kick which we just always seem to concede. McTominay and Pogba wasn't an issue. And Lindelof and Bailly were barely ever challenged.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Who decides that your response is the measured one?

This

The bloke goes around here like his opinions hold more weight than others because he's utterly obsessed with Ole.

 

[JPRouve]

No. I am in the support the manager until you see regression or even stagnation. This season we've improved over last so we are on the ascent. That is the judgement I make. If after finishing 3ed we would have struggled to get top 4, then out. A cup comp that was decided after 21 penalties does not change that. The league is my and I think the clubs target and things are looking on the up.

You can judge someone fairly and still support them, these things aren't mutually exclusive and there is no reason to put them against each others.

 

[acnumber9]

Because it's analytical and not a angry oneliner. Posts that don't argue in absolutes and blamegame are in its nature, measured.

I’m sure there’s plenty of measured responses that aren’t ‘everything is great’.

 

[OleBoiii]

Wait, whats Ole done? He hasnt achieved anything thats expected of a manager, has he?

You asked for the difference between Ole and his 3 predecessors. My answer: he's steadily progressed, done a better rebuild, and we are guaranteed CL football next season.

The long term goal is still PL and CL trophies. At some point getting CL football isn't enough, but that point is not after his second full season. Especially not when the second full season is an improvement on the first. Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho wouldn't have been sacked if they were in Ole's shoes now. And Ole would have been sacked if he was in their shoes when they got sacked. It's that simple

 

[Baneofthegame]

You can judge someone fairly and still support them, these things aren't mutually exclusive and there is no reason to put them against each others.

This.

 

[largelyworried]

Yeah, it's a bit of an odd defence for the manager (and let's face it, that's all this thread is) that 'he can't rely on his own signings in a final'. It honestly feels more like an attack on him than a defence.

No manager gets 100% of his signings spot on. If a manager gets 2/3 of their signings to be genuine first team quality options, he's way above average. Ole's recruitment has comfortably been the best since the Fergie era. Im not a huge Ole fan by any means - I don't think he can win the league for instance & I'd happily upgrade him if it were up to me - but his recruitment has been one of his biggest strengths. Having a couple of duds is not a stick to beat him with.

 

[Massive Spanner]

A measured response? Christ, the arrogance of you.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

The football forum is a mess now and it's probably gonna be this way until the Euros. Here's a measured response to the big topics related to our EL final loss:

Our opponents
I'm starting with this point because it's possibly the most annoying one. I know that the English bias is strong both in the media and in here, but people are talking about Villarreal as if they're a complete walk-over. It's a La Liga team that has made the EL final and beaten Arsenal over two games to get there. And it's their only chance to get CL football, which means that they are gonna have an additional boost. On top of this, Emery seems to have the EL figured out. This was his 4th(!) EL win in just 7 years. Give the man and his team some goddamn respect.
Yes, we were still the favorites to win. But the gap between us is not nearly as big as some of you make it out to be. Not by a long shot.

The starting lineup
I don't think you could argue too much about the starting lineup. Given the injuries, I think it's possibly our strongest starting XI. There will always be disagreements, though. Especially in hindsight if we lose or draw. This happened on a consistent basis when Fergie was in charge as well. It's the nature of fans on the internet. They always seem to know better than the manager, regardless of who's in charge.

The late substitutions
We were the best team in that second half. Things were clicking(apart from in the final third of the pitch) at least up until the 75th minute or so. And our 4 best players were(in my opinion): McTominay, Shaw, AWB and Pogba.
Who should come off and who should come on? Keep in mind that we are chasing a goal and our only attacking "threats" on the bench are James, Mata and Amad. In case you're confused: there is no good sub to make.
McTominay was on fire during that period so taking him off was not an option. Switching Pogba with VDB or Fred is a defensive move and we needed goals. James has been criticized all year, so if you claim that he was the solution then you're simply lying to push your agenda. Amad is just a kid and he's barely played for us. You could argue that switching Rashford with Fred/VDB and putting Pogba out left was a good solution, but that is also a defensive move and only serves the purpose of fresh(but weaker) legs. Also...

Why did Ole sub Greenwood instead of Rashford?
Greenwood was better than Rashford, but only up until a certain point. After the 70th minute or so Greenwood was gradually becoming as invisible as Rashford, if not more. At this point it all comes down to experience and how much energy you have left. It was the right choice, overall.

So who's to blame?
Why does it have to be one single reason? Why do we need a scapegoat? We simply lost an even game against a decent opponent who were playing for their life(in this case: CL football) and defending their goal with all they got. We were not outplayed. We weren't even the worst team. And we lost after 22 penalties.

No trophies, though
A trophy, even a minor one, would certainly have been nice. But let's not start to pretend that it's the end of the world for us. No manager post Fergie has made the top 4 and won a trophy in the same season. If you were given a choice between a comfortable top 4 finish or the EL trophy, most of you would agree that the former is a much stronger indicator of progress. And quite frankly, the only reason any of you would choose the EL trophy over 2nd is because it also leads to CL football. If the stakes were "comfortable top 4 finish" vs "FA Cup win", almost everyone would choose the former, even though the FA Cup isn't that much worse than the EL. You can move the goal posts all you want, but the long term focus is always the PL and CL.

A final positive note
We have made the top 4 for two consecutive seasons for the first time post Fergie. Quite comfortably as well! We also have a very young team, which can only be good for the long term. The summer transfer window will largely decide the outcome of next season, but let's not complain about lack of transfers already in May, shall we? Take a deep breath and enjoy the upcoming summer!

The problem isn't exactly losing the EL since it's pretty much the Mickey Mouse european cup but what the loss represents for the club.

If we can't even win a cup against teams like Villareal, are we really in the right direction? We managed to win it back in 2017 with arguably a worse team.
When you are comparing Manchester United to a mid-table team and say that "the gap isn't that big" for me that's a big red flag.

But tbf It's easy to blame Ole for this one but there's enough blame to share with the team as well. Rashford, Bruno, and Pogba went mia when they were needed, De Gea is rated as a world-class goalkeeper but failed to defend once in 11 penalties, etc.

 

[Idxomer]

They were all subbed on for Villarreal. I'm going to go out on a limb and say our bench had better players.

I agree. I think the likes of Amad, VDB, and James whether you rate them or not could've provided the legs needed.

Ole has an aversion to using his squad players which hurt the performances on a lot of occasions. Amad for example should've got more game-time after his goal against Milan but he was nowhere to be seen after that game.

 

[jackal&hyde]

You can judge someone fairly and still support them, these things aren't mutually exclusive and there is no reason to put them against each others.

No I understand. I was just saying that I do judge the managers work and I see clear progress at this stage, therefore I support him to continue. I'm a bit surprised how many would wanting him gone after at the beginning of the season we were credited with small chances for top 4 and yet finished comfortable 2ed. Does this EL final carries so much weight that all the improvement in the league becomes meaningless? Out of context but i just remembered Inter losing the final and then winning the title after 1000 years.

League progression shows where we are, not a won or lost final. The title is the aim here, not the odd cup.

 

[devilish]

We got knocked out in the CL by clubs who were way smaller then us in terms of budget and talent and we lost the Europa cup final against 7th place Villareal. Players are being run to the ground as Ole refuses to play his reserves (including last summer's biggest signing), our defence has been caught once again with its pants down while defending a set piece and despite the team looked knackered he refused to make any substitutions whatsoever.

Ole isn't as shit as some portray him to be. He's a decent man manager and that's a quality every modern manager must have. However there are glaring weaknesses in his management that quite frankly he seems too stubborn to correct.

I don't give a feck about Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. Just because they weren't good enough that doesn't mean that we should close both eyes regarding Ole.

 

[OleBoiii]

Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:

I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) need to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).

That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.

I also find it hilarious that I get accused of only defending Ole when there are several posts in here putting seemingly 100% of the blame on the manager alone At least I blame both.

 

[Johnson Yip]

The football forum is a mess now and it's probably gonna be this way until the Euros. Here's a measured response to the big topics related to our EL final loss:

Our opponents
I'm starting with this point because it's possibly the most annoying one. I know that the English bias is strong both in the media and in here, but people are talking about Villarreal as if they're a complete walk-over. It's a La Liga team that has made the EL final and beaten Arsenal over two games to get there. And it's their only chance to get CL football, which means that they are gonna have an additional boost. On top of this, Emery seems to have the EL figured out. This was his 4th(!) EL win in just 7 years. Give the man and his team some goddamn respect.
Yes, we were still the favorites to win. But the gap between us is not nearly as big as some of you make it out to be. Not by a long shot.

The starting lineup
I don't think you could argue too much about the starting lineup. Given the injuries, I think it's possibly our strongest starting XI. There will always be disagreements, though. Especially in hindsight if we lose or draw. This happened on a consistent basis when Fergie was in charge as well. It's the nature of fans on the internet. They always seem to know better than the manager, regardless of who's in charge.

The late substitutions
We were the best team in that second half. Things were clicking(apart from in the final third of the pitch) at least up until the 75th minute or so. And our 4 best players were(in my opinion): McTominay, Shaw, AWB and Pogba.
Who should come off and who should come on? Keep in mind that we are chasing a goal and our only attacking "threats" on the bench are James, Mata and Amad. In case you're confused: there is no good sub to make.
McTominay was on fire during that period so taking him off was not an option. Switching Pogba with VDB or Fred is a defensive move and we needed goals. James has been criticized all year, so if you claim that he was the solution then you're simply lying to push your agenda. Amad is just a kid and he's barely played for us. You could argue that switching Rashford with Fred/VDB and putting Pogba out left was a good solution, but that is also a defensive move and only serves the purpose of fresh(but weaker) legs. Also...

Why did Ole sub Greenwood instead of Rashford?
Greenwood was better than Rashford, but only up until a certain point. After the 70th minute or so Greenwood was gradually becoming as invisible as Rashford, if not more. At this point it all comes down to experience and how much energy you have left. It was the right choice, overall.

So who's to blame?
Why does it have to be one single reason? Why do we need a scapegoat? We simply lost an even game against a decent opponent who were playing for their life(in this case: CL football) and defending their goal with all they got. We were not outplayed. We weren't even the worst team. And we lost after 22 penalties.

No trophies, though
A trophy, even a minor one, would certainly have been nice. But let's not start to pretend that it's the end of the world for us. No manager post Fergie has made the top 4 and won a trophy in the same season. If you were given a choice between a comfortable top 4 finish or the EL trophy, most of you would agree that the former is a much stronger indicator of progress. And quite frankly, the only reason any of you would choose the EL trophy over 2nd is because it also leads to CL football. If the stakes were "comfortable top 4 finish" vs "FA Cup win", almost everyone would choose the former, even though the FA Cup isn't that much worse than the EL. You can move the goal posts all you want, but the long term focus is always the PL and CL.

A final positive note
We have made the top 4 for two consecutive seasons for the first time post Fergie. Quite comfortably as well! We also have a very young team, which can only be good for the long term. The summer transfer window will largely decide the outcome of next season, but let's not complain about lack of transfers already in May, shall we? Take a deep breath and enjoy the upcoming summer!

Thank you mate. I always like such positivity. We can definitely do better but it's not the end of the world - at least we saw real progress in the past 2 years and a united dressing room!

 

[Siorac]

No manager gets 100% of his signings spot on. If a manager gets 2/3 of their signings to be genuine first team quality options, he's way above average. Ole's recruitment has comfortably been the best since the Fergie era. Im not a huge Ole fan by any means - I don't think he can win the league for instance & I'd happily upgrade him if it were up to me - but his recruitment has been one of his biggest strengths. Having a couple of duds is not a stick to beat him with.

I happen to think that Bruno aside, the recruitment hasn't been anything special - we invested the most in defence and still can't defend set pieces, for example - but sure, managers get signings wrong all the time. But it's still quite strange to try and defend him with that. 'He didn't make subs because his signings were deemed to be even worse than Marcus Rashford having one of the worst games of his life' - that's not a defence, that's an indictment.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:

I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) needs to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).

That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.

What are you even on about? You did not criticise the manager. There is nothing measured about your post. It's a full on one sided defense of Ole.

So who's to blame?
Why does it have to be one single reason? Why do we need a scapegoat? We simply lost an even game against a decent opponent who were playing for their life(in this case: CL football) and defending their goal with all they got. We were not outplayed. We weren't even the worst team. And we lost after 22 penalties.

 

[b82REZ]

Measured response? the absolute arrogance to even say that.

People with Ole in their username should be banned from making "measured posts" when it's basically a list of excuses for the managers poor performances.

 

[hobbers]

Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:

I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) needs to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).

That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.

I also find it hilarious that I get accused of only defendingOle when there are several posts in here putting 100% of the blame on the manager alone At least I blame both.

If Rashford plays abysmally shit for 120 minutes. Who's more to blame? Rashford? Or the clueless manager who kept him on the pitch for 120 minutes?

 

[Siorac]

There's also nothing measured about the idea that Villarreal just defended their goal with all they had and didn't even venture past the halfway line.

We had 14 attempts, they had 12. Literally, you can measure these things. Yes, they did play cautiously and defensively but it wasn't some one-sided battering where nothing would go in. In terms of actual goalscoring opportunities, the sides were evenly matched.

 

[OleBoiii]

What are you even on about? You did not criticise the manager. There is nothing measured about your post. It's a full on one sided defense of Ole.

I took it for granted that when the team isn't performing well that some of the blame must go to the manager too. Sorry about that.

As for the last part: that doesn't contradict my point? We played badly, but we were not outplayed. We should have created more chances, regardless of opponent. And the goal we conceded was very unnecessary. But we were still the better team(ever so slightly).

 

[devilish]

Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:

I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) needs to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).

That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.

I also find it hilarious that I get accused of only defendingOle when there are several posts in here putting 100% of the blame on the manager alone At least I blame both.

I don't think Ole is completely shit or that its ever one person's fault really. There's no denying that Ole is a superb man manager. For the first time since SAF retired our squad has not engaged themselves in some sort of mutiny and that should be highly regarded. Ole was able to get some dead wood as well which is commendable as well.

However there's glaring weaknesses in his game. He's tactically weak which wouldn't be that much of a problem if he only surrounded himself with people who are tactically sound. We have his mates himself. Thus we rely heavily on individual brilliance, players who are so good that they don't really rely on coaching or tactics to make them look good. Since United aren't exactly heavy handed in the transfer market (the Glazers deserve criticism on that), such a thing is not going to happen anytime soon. So you've got Ole running the same players to the ground, which leads to them losing form and picking injuries.

 

[Marwood]

Exactly. The pathetic constant moving of goalposts is getting tiring. There's always an excuse or rationale behind why we have failed and keep on failing. Why can't you just call a spade a spade and admit the coaching team fecked up yesterday?

Probably because we've seen that type of performance lots of times with different players on the pitch and different subs.

So it wasn't just about a cock up yesterday.
It's a long standing problem this group has.

To add measure as the OP asks I'd say playing against that set up is really difficult. Even if individually their players aren't that great. You've got to be significantly better to break through.

 

[Giggsyking]

Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:

I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) need to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).

That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.

I also find it hilarious that I get accused of only defending Ole when there are several posts in here putting seemingly 100% of the blame on the manager alone At least I blame both.

There is nothing in your post blaming the manager when he is in fact the only or at least the major one to be blamed. Get off your high horse and stop talking in arrogance like you have insight in something the others dont have.

 

[OleBoiii]

There is nothing in your post blaming the manager

Like I wrote to the other poster: I took it for granted that when the team isn't performing well that some of the blame must go to the manager too.

 

[Giggsyking]

I don't think Ole is completely shit or that its ever one person's fault really. There's no denying that Ole is a superb man manager. For the first time since SAF retired our squad has not engaged themselves in some sort of mutiny and that should be highly regarded. Ole was able to get some dead wood as well which is commendable as well.

However there's glaring weaknesses in his game. He's tactically weak which wouldn't be that much of a problem if he only surrounded himself with people who are tactically sound. We have his mates himself. Thus we rely heavily on individual brilliance, players who are so good that they don't really rely on coaching or tactics to make them look good. Since United aren't exactly heavy handed in the transfer market (the Glazers deserve criticism on that), such a thing is not going to happen anytime soon. So you've got Ole running the same players to the ground, which leads to them losing form and picking injuries.

There absolutely zero proof of that. A superb man manager, is a superb motivator, and if he fails to motivate players to win 5 semifinals and a final then that claim is not right.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Disclaimer, in case it wasn't clear:

I still think we played badly. I do think Ole and the players(our attackers in particular) need to take a fair bit of blame. But I also find the criticism over the top. I also disagree strongly with some of the points being brought up(which I have addressed in the topic).

That is the nature of a measured response. You can criticise the manager and the performance without painting the whole thing as a complete disaster.

I also find it hilarious that I get accused of only defending Ole when there are several posts in here putting seemingly 100% of the blame on the manager alone At least I blame both.

You're up Ole's arse more than most on here, so the mere notion of you ever criticising him is farcical. You spend your days spamming the threads of the likes of Poch etc. and you're absolutely obsessed with Ole - like, it's not even normal. Despite thinking you bring some wonderful sense of perspective to the forum, you're actually part of the cohort that makes it unbearable. A bit of self awareness wouldn't go amiss.

 

[OleBoiii]

You're up Ole's arse more than most on here, so the mere notion of you ever criticising him is farcical. You spend your days spamming the threads of the likes of Poch etc. and you're absolutely obsessed with Ole - like it's not even normal. Despite thinking you bring some wonderful sense of perspective to the forum, you're actually part of the cohort that makes it unbearable. A bit of self awareness wouldn't go amiss.

How dare I defend a manager who keeps improving and delivering on the bare minimum, unlike his predecessors.

The moment we fail to get CL football or he has a meltdown like Moutinho you can feel free to tag me. I'm all for sacking Ole then. In the meantime: quit your whining

 

[Hammondo]

Our opponents
I disagree. Villareal were awful and we absolutely dominated them in the first 90 mins, until we tired and Ole froze. We had 65% possession, more passes, more shots, everything. We just couldn't find our way through a 9 man defence.


The starting lineup
Again, i disagree. I and plenty of others posted before the game that we were worried about Lindelof and Fred with no screening midfielder, and McTominay and Pogba in a two. We were right. We've played a certain way with success this season but we changed it for the biggest game.


The late substitutions
Why keep a tired Pogba on so long if he wasn't going to take a penalty?
Why leave Rashford on all game?
If Greenwood wasn't taking a penalty, why not take him off earlier?
James might not be Maradona but he's effective against tired legs.
Which subs were the right ones could be a matter of debate. But what's not a matter for debate is doing absolutely nothing, and that's what Ole did. He froze.


Why did Ole sub Greenwood instead of Rashford?
If Greenwood was invisible after 70 minutes, why wait until minute 100 to sub him?
Rashford was invisible all game, but we don't sub him at all?


So who's to blame?
Ole.

Well Fred had a knock and Ole didn't wanna risk him by starting him, so what midfield are you suggesting? It is not like they created much against us. I do not understand what you are even trying to say its so convoluted.

 

[devilish]

There absolutely zero proof of that. A superb man manager, is a superb motivator, and if he fails to motivate players to win 5 semifinals and a final then that claim is not right.

I disagree. If Ole wasn't a superb man manager then players would have orchestrated his departure long ago. There would be leaks, the team would be losing and a spectacular loss would happen the day rumours start circulating that he's on the way out. Instead whenever Ole was in that situation, his team fought for him like lions.

In my opinion Ole's weaknesses are in terms of tactics, stubbornness and coaching.

 

[Conor]

When literally all of your players bar 2/3 play badly, in a cup final, the manager has to be questioned. The lack of subs, and clear lack of ideas in the final third, and yet another woefully conceded set piece are all on the manager, more than anyone else. If you can't figure out how to beat a mid table team in a one off game, after the season is over, how are you going to challenge for the title, or a bigger cup, against far better teams? We had hundreds of millions worth of players on the pitch, coached by someone who has had enough time to be able to implement whatever he wants at this point, and we were crap. The exact same type of crap we have been at numerous points this season.

 

[bosnian_red]

My measured response is that I see Ole the same way I see Pochettino, they are both seemingly good coaches but neither are winners, they thrive as the underdogs, they have shown the ability to build solid yet uninspiring sides. Yesterday we were the better team, we dominated for the better part of 90 minutes but failed to push a little bit harder when we hit their solid defense, Ole failed to make in game adjustments too. At some point it reminded me the Sevilla games last season.

Yep. Ole froze yesterday IMO. Didn't know what to do and was scared to change anything. Best chance to win a trophy in 4 years and we blew it, which says a lot about us and now it'll just play in our heads. Football is a fine balance and it just doesn't look like Ole has what it takes. Look at all the competitions we've flopped in where we should've gone on longer? CL group stage completely flopped from a seemingly unfailable position. Lost to Leicester in the FA Cup. Now lost to 7th place Villareal after they had 1 shot on target all game and 40% of the ball. Lost to Sevilla last season in the Europa League semi final after leading and being favourites. Lost to Chelsea in last years FA cup semi final after dominating them in the league and being favourites. Great record against City in the league yet they brush us aside whenever we play them in a cup, as they have in the semi finals of the last 2 EFL Cups. Got swatted aside by Barcelona without hassle in the 18/19 CL quarter final. Lost to Wolves in the FA Cup that year.

We aren't going to win every trophy, and to an extent it's fine if you lose to a better side as that is expected anyway like City twice and Barcelona once. But we've lost in 5 knockout ties where we should have been favourites since Ole has been here, along with getting knocked out of the CL group stage after such a dominant beginning. This was the chance to stop that run and get a taste of winning, and we fecked it.

 

[Hammondo]

Ugh pretty sure you couldn't be more wrong.

McTominay and Pogba were easily our two best players last night.

Utterly ridiculous to try attempt to try say otherwise.

Pogba? I would say he was one of our worst with Rashford.

 

[wolvored]

The measured response is we simply are not consistant enough. The league for example, People go on about we had a bad start and lost 3 games etc. What they dont point out is we were top for 2 weeks in Jan and couldnt maintain any consistancy. On any particular day Utd could beat any team (City) and yet also lose to any team (Sheff U).
Its obvious Ole doesnt trust too many players, yet if hes telling the truth he has final say on any incomings, then hes to blame for buying them in the first place.
Last nights game was obvious the 11 on the pitch was struggling to break through and Rashford was way off form. Taking him off after he missed that chance to score would have been the right thing to do, regardless who he brought on. Amad, James even VDB wouldnt have done any worse and Ole wouldnt have been slated for his subs even if the result would have been the same.

 

[Hammondo]

Our opponents were well prepared to play us. We have clear weakness' as a team, coming from both the players we have and the coaching. Villarreal played a really good game to use these weakness' and we had no answers. There is not much Ole could have done on the day, the problems last night should have been fixed years ago.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Thats not a measured response thats just excuses for Ole.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I took it for granted that when the team isn't performing well that some of the blame must go to the manager too. Sorry about that.

As for the last part: that doesn't contradict my point? We played badly, but we were not outplayed. We should have created more chances, regardless of opponent. And the goal we conceded was very unnecessary. But we were still the better team(ever so slightly).

Did you though, did you really? Because it seems to be like it would've made a lot more sense for your "measured response" to actually point out the other side of the argument as opposed to a flat out defense of Ole.

 

[jackal&hyde]

The measured response is we simply are not consistant enough. The league for example, People go on about we had a bad start and lost 3 games etc. What they dont point out is we were top for 2 weeks in Jan and couldnt maintain any consistancy. On any particular day Utd could beat any team (City) and yet also lose to any team (Sheff U).
Its obvious Ole doesnt trust too many players, yet if hes telling the truth he has final say on any incomings, then hes to blame for buying them in the first place.
Last nights game was obvious the 11 on the pitch was struggling to break through and Rashford was way off form. Taking him off after he missed that chance to score would have been the right thing to do, regardless who he brought on. Amad, James even VDB wouldnt have done any worse and Ole wouldnt have been slated for his subs even if the result would have been the same.

I wanted that too. Not that we had any right to expect a kid with 40mins of professional game time when he came in to change a final, but it would have been a gamble, Macheda style. Then again, Rashford has had very bad games before and still came up with the goods so I understand the rational of keeping him.