The Former United Youth/Reserves Thread

Discussion in 'Reserve/Youth Forum' started by khoazany, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. Jun 22, 2018

    fitzmertz New Member

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    He had a great partnership with Ben Pearson throughout the underage group. It is a great move for him I hope he does well for them.
  2. Sep 15, 2018

    Flying Fox Full Member

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    Richie de Laet has signed on loan for Melbourne City for the upcoming season
  3. Dec 2, 2018

    kundalini Full Member

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    Indy Boonen scored his first goal for KV Oostende this weekend, earning them a 1-1 draw at Zulte Waregem. So far he has made 1 start in the Jupiler Pro League with 8 sub appearances and been an unused sub for another 8 games. He turns 20 in early Jan. Signed a 3 year deal.

    Not a great autumn for most of the former United youth and reserves currently playing in the Championship. Long term injuries: Josh Harrop, James Weir (contract ends in the summer). Out of favour: Sean Goss (yet to make the bench), Ashley Fletcher (38 mins as a sub in August then not in squad), Paddy McNair (2 starts so far in Championship for Middlesbrough, mostly unused sub), Will Keane (occasional sub appearances, mostly unused sub, out of contract in the summer), Ryan Tunnicliffe (a rare start today, his 4th of the season, usually unused sub), Saidy Janko (5 starts on loan at Nottingham Forest from Porto), David Jones (not appeared in the Championship this season for Sheff Wed).

    Doing ok to fine: Ben Pearson (regular starter for Preston when not suspended), Sam Johnstone, Tom Lawrence, Corry Evans. Tyler Blackett (probably just sneaks into this category, 12 starts, out of contract in the summer) Joe Rothwell (4 starts, 10 sub appearances). Oliver Norwood, perhaps unfortunate not to have played PL football given his contribution to teams that got promoted, doing well for Sheff United.

    In League One, Reece James starting left-back for Sunderland since early October. Donald Love not appeared since early September. Joe Riley 5 starts in League One (4 of which were in August) for bottom of the table Bradford, only once completed 90 mins, not sure whether he has been injured as two spells of about 5 matches where he didn't even make the bench. Scott Wootton regular starter in August and September but missing since then. Zeki Fryers made his first start of the season in League One in November, only to get sent off. Has since made a 2nd start. Also scored in the FA Cup.

    In League Two, Larnell Cole has made 2 starts and 6 sub appearances for Tranmere, having been an unused sub until late September.

    Elsewhere, Federico Macheda joined Panathinaikos Athens in early September and currently has 4 goals and 2 assists in 7 starts in the Greek Super League. Magnus Wolff Eikrem back amongst the goals and assists since returning to Molde, after his brief spell with Seattle Sounders. Mats Moller Daehli fit and starting regularly, which is good news but still in Bundesliga 2. Frederic Veseli 7 starts 2 sub appearances for Empoli in Serie A in Italy. Fornasier sat on the bench in Serie B so far this season. Davide Petrucci another sat on the bench for most games, 2 starts and 1 sub in the Turkish Super League. He is out of contract in the summer. Charni Ekangamene starting games in the Dutch 2nd Tier.

    Two things strike me, following the careers of the players that didn't make it at United, one is how many suffer one or more serious injuries, spend a year out then another year to find some momentum. The other is that the pattern of players leaving United to play in a lower division then working their way back into the Premier League, seems to have come to a halt since Michael Keane (although he left to join Burnley who were in the PL at the time then got relegated) and Josh King. There are a few candidates to make the step up if their club gets promoted to the PL this season.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  4. Dec 2, 2018

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Preston fans love Pearson and are just waiting for him to be sold to a PL team. Apparently their manager has described him on the football league show as the best number 6 in the league as well.
  5. Dec 2, 2018

    kundalini Full Member

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    Their results are a lot better when he is in the team. One point in 4 games while he was suspended.

    I counted 13 players bought this summer by teams currently in the PL, from teams in last season's Championship. So it is possible but still difficult. Best chance of making the leap is getting your team promoted, though as Oliver Norwood has discovered, even that doesn't always work.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  6. Dec 3, 2018

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Cheers, appreciate that.
  7. Dec 23, 2018

    khoazany Full Member

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    You forgot Ollie Rathbone who is regular for Rochdale in League One.
  8. Jan 4, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    Will Keane gone on loan to Ipswich from Hull. Into the last 6 months of his contract. Played 183 mins in the Championship for Hull this season. Returned from cruciate ligament injury almost one year ago but only managed 365 mins in Championship last season, scoring 1 goal and 2 assists. 4 starts in the PL for Hull under Phelan prior to suffering serious injury.

    For our U21/U23 team he scored 14 goals with 5 assists in 22 games after his 2012 cruciate ligament injury yet he has had almost no impact in the Championship (Wigan, QPR, Sheff Wed, Preston, Hull), scoring 5 goals and 2 assists in 36 starts 28 sub appearances.

    James Weir played his first match since his knee injury, for Hull's U23 side. He was out for about a year. Even when fit, he was an unused sub for Hull in the PL, then got 13 mins as a sub in the Championship, with another 102 mins while on loan at Wigan, during Warren Joyce's brief spell as manager.

    Jack Barmby joined San Antonio from Portland Timbers. San Antonio are in the USLC. He had been playing in that League for Portland's 2nd team. Made 2 starts and 27 sub appearances in MLS for Portland. I can't recall if he chose to leave United or we released him. He went to Leicester, played for their U23 side for a while. His loan to Hartlepool in League Two in 2014 while at United, seems to have been his most successful period, 5 goals and 5 assists in 12 starts.

    Ryan Tunnicliffe getting a run of starts for Millwall, scored an overhead kick to earn victory over Forest in late December.

    Expecting Sean Goss, Ashley Fletcher and perhaps one or two others, to go out on loan in this transfer window.

    Indy Boonen scored again since last update. Now 2 goals from 4 starts and 9 sub appearances in Jupiler League.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  9. Jan 4, 2019

    dutchred Full Member

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    Shame
    Before the injury the looked the real deal
  10. Jan 11, 2019

    khoazany Full Member

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    Former U18s Jimmy Dunne joined Sunderland on loan from Burnley. Had a good loan at Hearts before that.
  11. Jan 11, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    I wonder who will end up with the better career Jimmy Dunne or Ro-Shaun Williams ? Dunne is about 10 and a half months older than Williams.

    Dunne joined Burnley when he was 18 years and 8 months. A year later they sent him on loan to Barrow in the National League. He got plenty of games despite two suspensions. Then in Jan he joined Accrington Stanley in League Two for the rest of the season. Again plenty of starts for them. This season a loan to Hearts, a regular for them until injured in late November. Total 51 starts in the League for the 3 loans (plus 2 cup games).

    Compare that to Ro-Shaun Williams' 52 starts for our U23s in the PL2 League.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  12. Jan 12, 2019

    khoazany Full Member

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    First team experience at the stage of 18-22 yo is very important imo. Looks at how Zeki Fryers turned out when he fecked around with that.
  13. Jan 13, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    Craig Cathcart scored at both ends in Watford's win over Palace. He exceeded 100 PL starts recently. Danny Drinkwater 83 currently. Tom Heaton 80. Impressive for players who didn't make their United debut.

    Will Keane scored the winner for Ipswich.

    Fraizer Campbell with his 9th goal this season in the Championship for Hull. He made 80 PL starts with 70 sub appearances, though in his case 97 mins in the PL for United, 142 total mins.

    Just notice Varela joined FC Copenhagen from Penarol at the beginning of Jan. He started a few games for Uruguay during the World Cup. Copenhagen are currently leading the Danish League but were knocked out of the Europa League at the group stages.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  14. Jan 13, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Cleverley also scored winner for Watford. All 3 goals are scored by ManUtd academy players (1 OG).
  15. Jan 13, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Remember Craig Cathcart being on the bench for the 7-1 against Roma and being disappointed SAF didn't give him his debut as the last substitute when the match and tie was over as a contest.
  16. Jan 13, 2019

    khoazany Full Member

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    19 yo Danny Butterworth has broke through Blackburn's first team squad recently. On their bench yesterday along with Rothwell. Been excellent for their youth/reserves after being released from us at 16.
  17. Jan 15, 2019

    Kostov Full Member

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    Joe Rothwell just subbed on for Blackburn in the FA Cup. A blast from a not so distant past that is.
  18. Jan 15, 2019

    In Rainbows Full Member

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  19. Jan 15, 2019

    TwoSheds More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably

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    Is it me or is 5/6 83%?
  20. Jan 16, 2019

    In Rainbows Full Member

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    :lol:
  21. Jan 16, 2019

    Classical Mechanic Full Member

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    That's what you call a disingenuous use of stats, extra generous rounding up and using 'attempted' take ons and crosses as a plus. Anyone that has watched Antonio Valencia in the last 4 years knows that attempted crosses aren't really worth much.
  22. Jan 16, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    Adnan Januzaj https://understat.com/player/323 v Bebe https://understat.com/player/2168

    Both take tons of shots per 90 mins, in Januzaj's case typically cutting in from the right wing, Bebe favours the long distance shot, as in "I don't think he's going to score from there".

    This season Adnan's productivity per 90 mins is down on last year. 0 goals + 2 assists so far. His expected goals per 90 mins is 0.19, while his expected assists per 90 is 0.20. Bebe has 1 goal, not played a great deal. His xG per 90 mins is 0.20 with 0.12 expected assists per 90.

    Last season Adnan's expected goals total was slightly below 8 goals. In reality he got 3.

    During the last 5 seasons Adnan has 4990 mins across La Liga, Bundesliga and PL. He managed to score 4 goals with 11 assists. Bebe 5165 mins in La Liga, 7 goals and 10 assists. Neither player took any penalties. Both took quite a few free-kicks.

    Expected goals per 90 mins over last 5 seasons: Januzaj 0.23 xG + 0.22 xA, Bebe 0.13 xG + 0.22 xA

    Pass completion this season: Januzaj 71.66% Bebe 73.3%

    Dribbles per 90 mins: Januzaj 8.8 (of which 5.3 successful 3.5 unsuccessful) Bebe 3.6 (2.8 successful 0.8 unsuccessful)

    Unsuccessful touches per 90 mins: Januzaj 3.2 Bebe 3.8 Dispossessed: Januzaj 4.5 Bebe 1.8

    I was a big Januzaj fan so it's pretty alarming that his productivity over an extended period of time, has been fairly similar to Bebe's. If only he could finish chances at an average rate compared to other players, he'd have scored 13 goals instead of 4.

    Whoscored rate Januzaj as the best Real Sociedad player this season. His strengths over the last two seasons, according to them, are his dribbling and to a lesser extent, his crossing, through-balls and key passes
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  23. Jan 31, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    Sean Goss gone on loan to St Johnstone in Scottish Premiership. Had a decent loan spell at Rangers last year. Been playing for QPR's U23 side, which is a bit ridiculous at his age. QPR don't rate him at all, not even a tiny little bit. Unfortunately for them, he's still got 17 months left on his contract.
  24. Jan 31, 2019

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    Always thought he was highly over rated, he did basically nothing at u23s level for us. Should do better than Willock at St. Johnstone though.
  25. Jan 31, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Devonte Redmond joins Salford City till end of season

  26. Feb 1, 2019

    In Rainbows Full Member

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    Sean Goss always had nice skill, but that was never realized on any consistent basis at youth level. Could make for a nice youtube video, and maybe he would have 1 or 2 great games, but never really stood out.
  27. Feb 12, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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  28. Feb 12, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    Larnell Cole left Tranmere during the January transfer window. Currently without a club. He made 3 starts in League Two for them this season with 7 sub appearances. Spent a lot of time as an unused sub. Even in the National League last season, Tranmere didn't seem to have total faith in him, given how often he got substituted well before the end: 9 starts in the regular League season, only once got 90 mins, 6 times substituted before 80 mins. He did score a goal in the semi-final of the National League Play-Offs.

    In hindsight, Rene's decision to take him to Fulham, looks like a spectacular misjudgement. Had one decent season on loan in League One and got a few games for Inverness Caledonian in the Scottish Premiership, again with Fulham no doubt paying most of his salary.

    Yet more evidence of just how difficult it is to predict how decent U23 players will do in the professional game.

    Elsewhere, Davide Petrucci got a run of games in the Turkish Super League from late November to early Feb, having been an unused sub for most of the autumn. Injured in his last match, expected back in early March. Contract runs out in the summer.

    Joe Rothwell on the bench most games for Blackburn. 5 starts 15 sub appearances 11 unused sub. Yet to score or get an assist for them in the Championship. Turned 24 in Jan. In contrast, Corry Evans has 25 starts in Blackburn's midfield this season. Almost reached 200 starts in the Championship. Hasn't played in the PL. Current deal ends this summer. Left United for Hull just before his 21st birthday, having been there on loan for 6 months. Never featured for United's first team, though was on the bench for a couple of League Cup games and one end of season PL match.

    Ben Pearson currently on 99 starts in the Championship. Preston have 1 win 1 draw and 6 losses in the games he has missed. A couple of red cards this season. Fewer yellow cards than in previous seasons. Preston look safe from relegation but too far away from the play-off positions.

    The £6m Middlesbrough spent on Ashley Fletcher not looking the wisest move so far. 1 goal in 4 starts 18 sub appearances in the Championship for them since joining 20 months ago. 4 goals in domestic Cup competitions this season, as well as 5 goals in 3 matches for Middlesbrough's U23 side. Surprised he didn't go out on loan in Jan. There was interest from Hull. Paddy McNair cost them £5m last summer. Been on the bench for most of this season. 3 starts, 8 sub appearances, 17 unused sub in the Championship. Will be 24 in late April.

    Not sure what happened to Kieran Lee. Not featured for Sheff Wed this season. Out of contract in the summer. Last game he played seems to have been december 2017. Expected back in training later this month. David Jones got 15 mins as a sub in late December, his only playing time this season in the Championship. Also out of contract in the summer. Made an impressive 96 starts in the PL for Derby, Wolves, Wigan and Burnley.

    Tom Heaton doing well for Burnley, having replaced Joe Hart. Michael Keane performing a bit better for Everton this season, having struggled in his first season. Josh King decent for Bournemouth, 8 goals and 3 assists so far in the PL. Matty James started Leicester's FA Cup game in Jan but not featured in the PL this season. Achilles tendon problems. Danny Simpson out of favour this season, 3 starts in the PL. His contract is up in the summer. Turned 32 in Jan. In total 202 PL starts. Phil Bardsley been starting for Burnley since early December. 243 PL starts. Turns 34 in the summer. Out of contract in the summer.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  29. Apr 9, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    Joe Rothwell's first goal in the Championship helped Blackburn beat Derby tonight. A superb chip according to the BBC.

    Ashley Fletcher with 2 goals against Bolton, also hit the post. He finally got a run of starts for Middlesbrough. Now up to 5 goals in 9 starts in the Championship this season.

    Ben Pearson's 3rd red card of the season, to go with 13 yellow cards. Doesn't miss many games through injury but those suspensions are adding up. Last season 14 yellow cards and one red. Season before that, 14 yellow cards in the Championship and 2 in the domestic Cup competitions. Whoscored like his defensive contribution, especially tackling, also passing and interceptions.

    Tom Lawrence scored 3 times in the first 4 games this season in the Championship but has only managed to add another 2, with 2 assists, in his next 18 starts.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  30. Apr 9, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    Larnell never looked anything special. Were people expecting big things??
  31. Apr 9, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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  32. Apr 10, 2019

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

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    There was some optimism. He was rated about the same as Lingard when they were 18 in the 'might make it' bracket. Just demonstrates how difficult it is to separate those who have it and those who don't.
  33. Apr 10, 2019

    Ali Dia Full Member

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    Pearson always looked a lovely player in the youth squad, spreading the play like scholes and also really likes to leave the foot in it seems! I thought he was nailed on to make it here. Wilson, Powell, Adnan and Ravel especially too...then it’s jesse/ mctominay who crack it... it’s crazy how big the step up to even the lower leagues is when nearly every club in England would have wanted the lads we get as youth prospects. wouldnt the average lads who inevitably end up getting released not be better off taking their chances at a smaller clubs academy in the first place where they might sneak into the first team early and from then on who knows? Attitude, injury luck, getting the right loans, a manager who trusts you and injuries to the first team are all massive factors in who makes it. Players can look really good while playing at a pretty low level in a strong youth team can also really distort expectations. It’s hard to know how good the players really are until they leave. I wonder how many of these lads we have now will do anything much in the future. I really like this thread, cheers for the effort!
  34. Apr 10, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    Surprising. Dont remember ever thinking he had anything resembling a chance here.
  35. Apr 11, 2019

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

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    He was in a youth cup winning side so there was some buzz. Pogba, Lingard, Michael keane and to an extent Josh King obviously went on to better things. There was some hype around others that eventually didn't pan out though. Will keane, Tunnicliffe, and Cole for instance.
  36. Apr 11, 2019

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

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    I always thought Jesse was in with a shout because he was quick and had good technique. Nick Powell looked fantastic from his lower league form but it became apparent pretty quickly that he wasn't very mobile and wasn't a consistent passer. His shooting was tremendous though. It's a bit of a lottery though to an extent since some players look terrific at lower level football doing things that they wouldn't get away with at premier league level and of course there are some players who are talented but aren't good enough athletes to play at a high level, petrucci for instance.
  37. Apr 11, 2019

    Scholsey2004 Full Member

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    Some lads just seem to be more robust than others. It's hard to know with a lot of these lads who have career changing ligament injuries whether it was just bad luck or whether their knees or ankles just weren't up to intensive use and were always going to go sooner or later. Some players seem to get one after another on both knees whereas some seem to not be prone to it.
  38. Apr 11, 2019

    Mickson Full Member

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    I don't know if I'm allowed to post this here or if anyone is interested. But I have looked up all the former United youth products who are born 1985-2000 and what they are doing now. Also some interviews. Here's my first post, about the 1985 gang with an interview with Phil Picken. He talks about why no footballers are coming out as gay, about agents, about City's interest in him, how good Rossi was and much more. Can be read here: https://manutdungdom.blogg.se/2019/april/unitedprodukterna-fodda-1985-vad-hande-sen.html hope you youth nerds enjoy it! Nothing fancy.
  39. Apr 11, 2019

    kundalini Full Member

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    That was an interesting read. Thanks. You asked some good questions.

    This bit stood out to me. "What would you say is the most important skill to have if you want to succeed in professional football and what was your most important skill?

    Without doubt mental strength. Football is one of the best jobs in the world but there are many many lows that you have to be able to deal with. You can have all the ability in the world but if you can’t handle pressure, criticisms, loses, injuries etc then it will go all to waste. I like every player have had to deal with a lot of up and downs but would like to think I have always come through them to perform when needed."
  40. Apr 12, 2019

    Mickson Full Member

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    Thank you. Yes, that's the pattern I've noticed when I did all the interviews. Everyone has different experiences and so on...but all of them are saying the same thing here: You got to have mental strength. That's the most important thing. Never give up etc.