....also, I agree with Spoons about not reaching his potential...Giggs best seasons where 92-93 and 93-94...he was 20 & 21 in those seasons...The fact that he's never surpassed the heights he reached at 21, when a wingers peak should be 25/26, sort of implies he never quite reached his potential. Simples, regardless of djemba djemba
The greatest United player during the Fergie Era - The Poll
- Thread starter The Law of Denis
- Start date
Keane
Giggs
Cantona
Scholes.
now I just need to pick one
this is hard
Giggs
Cantona
Scholes.
now I just need to pick one
this is hard
I'm not basing it entirely on longevity, I know it's not everything. I'm just using it as evidence. No player at United, especially under Fergie, can play at the highest level for 18 seasons without being great. He wouldn't have remained in the team and constantly been picked for the biggest games year in year out at one of the if he was anything short of brilliant.
You say he's been a bit inconsistent... remember Cantona was only here for 5 seasons. I'm not criticising him as such, just saying that maybe if he'd been here for as long as Giggsy he'd have had his inconsistent moments as well. Scholes and Neville both have.
I just feel Giggs is being underrated here. What else does he honestly need to do to have reached his potential? He's done everything and more, and he's always been a fantastic player, outlasting all those players you've mentioned to still be named as PFA Player of the Season at the age of 35.
Giggs' best season was surely 99?
You talk about him not having driven the team to success like some of the others, but Giggs was instrumental in our Treble win. He missed a few games through injury, but he was consistantly brilliant in the league when he did play. And in the CL, he was just as influential as anyone that season - his equaliser against Juve in the semi-final at OT was, if I remember correctly, a last minute individual effort, and he also set up Sheringham's goal in the final. And of course there's the matter of that winner he scored against Arsenal in the FA Cup semi final replay.
'Not driven us to titles the way the others have'..nah, sorry, I'm having none of that!
Absolutely. I just can't understand how anyone can say Giggs hasn't driven us to titles... his whole career has solely been about helping Manchester United win titles - hence why he has so many!
I think his best season was '99 as well - when he was 25/26.
For me Giggs has been consistently good for an amazing amount of years but I cant ever think of a season when I thought he was our best player - his peak never seemed to hit the heights of cantona, ronaldo, keane ...
His dribbling skills were amazing but his biggest weakness has always been his final ball/shot - when he broke through as a teenager, everyone assumed this would improve over time but his crossing was never up to the standard of Beckham or even Sharpe at his best.
His dribbling skills were amazing but his biggest weakness has always been his final ball/shot - when he broke through as a teenager, everyone assumed this would improve over time but his crossing was never up to the standard of Beckham or even Sharpe at his best.
for all the commendable loyalty, amazing skills and intelligent play, the one fact is that Giggs very infrequently took a game by the scruff of its neck, unlike Keane..the best example of that fact.
I have heard it said by more than one pundit or opposing player...'United just seemed half the side without Keane'
of course there are magical moments like the FA cup semi-final goal...
I have heard it said by more than one pundit or opposing player...'United just seemed half the side without Keane'
of course there are magical moments like the FA cup semi-final goal...
Yes but Cantona was better than Giggs in those 5 seasons. He was the pivotal point of the team and the one that made things happen the most. He was the player the team was built around for 5 whole seasons. In all of Giggs 18 seasons, he's never been that
Yes but that was a lifetime achievement award really wasn't it...he wasn't the best player this season
Sorry, but your both clearly mad
He was instrumental yes. But Yorke, Cole, Keane, Beckham & Scholes were all more important to that team than Giggs was that season. Keane & Beckham were up for WPOTY with Becks coming second. I'm not arguing he's shit, I'm arguing there have always been better players in our team...or players who have been more important than him, and there have. Giggs potential was to become the Worlds Best player, as Ronaldo has become. Giggs never became that, thus he failed to live up to his full potential in my view.
You've just picked out things he did that season, not given me a reason why he's The Greatest...He scored his best Goal that season yes...but eric scored his best goal in 96/97, his worst season, moot point.
I'm not saying he's rubbish...Me & Spoons arguments are being stretched to critisize him so we can adequately explain why we don't think he's the greatest...to us he's not. Thats all, regardless of djemba djemba
Now this is ridiculous. Yorke, Cole and Scholes played big parts that season, but on what basis are you putting them ahead of Giggs in terms of importance? You seem to be doing it just for argument's sake. And as for Beckham, Giggs was always the better player. Even in 99.Giggs did not live up to his full potential, but what of it? Very few players do. He was being touted as the next George Best, of course it was going to be difficult to live up to that.
On the basis that they were more important to our success in 1999 than Giggs was overall....They were, honest
Keane was the most influential.
Scholes was the quiet magician.
Stam was immense.
Ronaldo finally broke the La Liga/Serie A deadlock on awards.
Rio has been tremendous.
Giggs, Beckham, Ruud, Ole, Robson, Hughes, the list goes on.
But Schmeichel was probably the overall best of the lot.
Scholes was the quiet magician.
Stam was immense.
Ronaldo finally broke the La Liga/Serie A deadlock on awards.
Rio has been tremendous.
Giggs, Beckham, Ruud, Ole, Robson, Hughes, the list goes on.
But Schmeichel was probably the overall best of the lot.
I'll divulge further shall I...
1998/99 Goals & Appearances: Ryan Giggs - I've bolded important ones
League: 24 Appearances: 3 Goals. - against Wimbledon, Notts Forest & Coventy. 2 of those matches were cake walks
Domestic Cups: 7 Appearances: 2 Goals - against Middlsbrough & of course Arsenal
European Cup: 9 Appearances: 5 Goals - against Lodz in the qualifiers, Barcelona 2X Brondby, and Juventus
So a staggering sum of 3 important goals in our greatest ever season. Surely the hallmark of a true great playing his best football
Sorry to sound patronizing, but 99 was not Giggs year, your basing it almost entirely on 'Les Wonder Goal' which is ridiculous...it's like basing your appraisal of a player on youtube videos, and to claim Giggs was better than Beckham in 99, regardless of how well they played respectivley is a completely nonsensical statement!! Becks was much better in 99....as was Cole, Yorke, Scholes & Keane
Now, cos I'm bored and not tired and it's late...I'll do the others
Andy Cole - only using important goals to save space (i.e, winners, equalizers, crucial ones)
League: 32 Appearances: 17 Goals - Chelsea, Arsenal, Newcastle, Leeds, Spurs - only 1 of them was assisted by Giggs
Domestic Cups: 7 Appearances: 2 Goals - Fulham
European Cup: 10 Appearances: 5 Goals - Barcelona, Juventus
So 8 important goals for Cole...but he's a striker so thats expected. Though thats not counting his assists in important games like Liverpool FA Cup or Juventus...
Giggs has 1 assit on that list, and I'm not actually too sure about it
Dwight Yorke
League: 32 Appearances: 18 Goals - Blackburn, Southampton, Middlesbrough
Domestic Cups: 8 Appearances: 3 Goals - Liverpool, 2X Chelsea,
European Cup: 11 Appearances: 8 Goals - Bayern, Barcelona, Inter, Juventus
so 11 important goals for Yorke. Non off the top of my head, created by Giggs...most by Beckham or Cole.
Paul Scholes
League: 31 Appearances: 6 Goals - Aston Villa, 2X Blackburn
Domestic Cups: 6 Appearances: 1 Goal - Newcastle (Final)
European Cup: 12 Appearances: 4 Goals - Barcelona, Bayern, Inter
So 7 for Scholsey, again unsure how many were created by Giggs...certainly non of the really important ones...Beckham & Cole come out again there
However, Giggs assists for that season are 9..Beckham & Yorke had 23 a piece..
Giggs was actually much better in 97/98 than he was in 98/99...If you'd said that was his best season...I'd have had to have given you some credence
...again, sorry to look like I'm patronizing or being a dick..But 99 was not his best season by a long shot, regardless of djemba djemba
Giggs has - had maybe - incredible skills, but in recent years hasn't been consistently world class at all.
I love him to bits, but we tried counting the number of times he gave the ball away in some games last season (and the previous season), and it was much higher than it should have been.
He had some good games too, but this does appear to be quite a big flaw in his game these days.
Giggs
Robson
Cantona
Scholes
Schmeik
Keane
Robson
Cantona
Scholes
Schmeik
Keane
Bump!
I'm not doubting that he's nowhere near the player he once was. I think this is the problem - when people think of Giggs as a footballer, they think of Giggs as the player he is now, not the young Giggs tearing defences apart down that left wing. Shame really, maybe if he retired in 2004 he would be held in higher regard as a player.
I'd like to get as much votes as possible, don't worry it will be released soon.
for me its Schmeichel
He developed to become the undisputed best goalkeeper in the world, perhaps of all time, had a huge will to win, scored goals!, and overall you always felt safe with him in nets. People talk about Giggs wonder goal, but it would have been game over if Schmikes hadn't saved the peno first in the last minute of the match
Cantona, Keane, etc, all had huge impacts on the team but none of them can say that they were the best player in the world..till Ronaldo. And he's a git.
He developed to become the undisputed best goalkeeper in the world, perhaps of all time, had a huge will to win, scored goals!, and overall you always felt safe with him in nets. People talk about Giggs wonder goal, but it would have been game over if Schmikes hadn't saved the peno first in the last minute of the match
Cantona, Keane, etc, all had huge impacts on the team but none of them can say that they were the best player in the world..till Ronaldo. And he's a git.
Yes, I can't disagree with that. Back then I head a bet with a mate that he''d go on to become as good, if not better than Bestie. He's been fantastic for United, but never quite reached those heights again.
Giggs back in the day, those first few Premiership seasons was as exciting a player to watch as any I've seen. I would be on the edge of my seat watching Giggsy run with the ball back then more than even watching Ronaldo the past few seasons, he was poetry in motion.
In terms of influence Cantona gets my vote.
Best player has to be Ronaldo.
Best player has to be Ronaldo.
Keano
I think pushing Scholes as being a big part of 99 in the same leagues as Becks, Yorke, Cole, Keane, Stam is pushing it abit. He had a good season but it was still during the days when Nicky Butt was selected as often as he was in big games. Butt started the Inter away match, Juve away, Arsenal in the cup, and of course the CL final. Scholes became more infleuntial in the following few seasons hitting his peak in 02/03 when he was magnificent.
Your right on Giggs that season though. It was not one of his best by any stretch of the imagination and he had a few injuries hence Blomqvist starting plenty of games. Anyone putting him ahead of Becks that season has forgotten the ins and outs of 99 IMO. Beckham was immense that season and the number of goals he made should not be under-estimated. To put it simply, 99 was the standout season for Keane, Stam, Yorke, Cole and Becks in their United careers. Giggs had plenty of better or similar seasons during his career.
when are the bloody results out?!
Yeah, fair
Paul Scholes without doubt imo.
My prediction for the results..
Cantona will be top. Second will be Keane. And Rooney will be a shock inclusion, probably in 9th or 10th place.
Cantona will be top. Second will be Keane. And Rooney will be a shock inclusion, probably in 9th or 10th place.
9th or 10th is probably fair.
Wont be that much of a shock as voting on stuff like this often tends to favour the more recent players
However, Rooney did not make my Top10.
Not yet. I have no doubt that he will eventually make the top 5 of the last 30 years or so, but he's still only, what, 23? Unlike Ronaldo, who made my list, he has yet to achieve something individually.
I've only skimmed through this thread so apologies if somebody has said it but.......
Denis Irwin - must get a mention. He was so solid both defensively and as an attcking player.
legend !
Top of the pile though for me (knocking 40) is Robson.
Too many 'kids' won't know how good he was because he was past his prime come the glory years - he would have done all Keane did.
Denis Irwin - must get a mention. He was so solid both defensively and as an attcking player.
legend !
Top of the pile though for me (knocking 40) is Robson.
Too many 'kids' won't know how good he was because he was past his prime come the glory years - he would have done all Keane did.
Eric Cantona... no question about that
Ronaldo
I was torn between Cantona and Ronaldo. Cantona was easily the one with the biggest impact, but Ronaldo was the one with the most talent.
Completely agree on both counts Sultan. Eric raised United back to their previous heights in the league although they came up short in Europe, he reestablished them as the dominant force in England, which despite challenges from Arsenal and Chelsea, is still undisputed over the past two decades or so. Ronaldo has to be considered the best, love him or hate him, he was just so fecking good at United, SAF's only Ballon D'Or and World Player of the Year winner as well says it as well. Why so polemic, because he was that fecking good.
I was thinking the same thing as I entered this thread
Looking for Eric.
'Greatest?'
Giggs.
Giggs.