Yeah, the vegan philosophy makes a lot of sense. The logic is internally consistent. Much more so than people who won't eat meat because they say they don't want to be responsible for animals being killed, while still eating eggs and dairy products.
The Impossible Burger
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Yeah, the vegan philosophy makes a lot of sense. The logic is internally consistent. Much more so than people who won't eat meat because they say they don't want to be responsible for animals being killed, while still eating eggs and dairy products.
You can honestly change most of these up without too much hassle. Almond/Soy/Rice/Oat milk etc... are all perfectly good milk substitutes. We kept these after doing Veganuary this year because it was such a low effort change. You might not like them all, but they're worth experimenting with and it's a super easy change once you've found one you like. Vegan spreads to replace butter are pretty easily found and vegan yoghurt alternatives are pretty decent as well. Fake cheese is hit and miss, but I really like Violife and I've heard excellent things about Tyne Chease, but it is pricey. Your option for all of those is a touch limited, but it's becoming more popular and more variety is starting to appear.
Eggs I can't help you with.
With all things though it's easy to make excuses and I think you'd be surprised how quickly you'd adapt.
But why change? With meat, I can understand against processed stuff, animal farming et al. But what's against dairy?
Yep. The suffering that dairy cows go through is perhaps a fate worse than death.
Add on top of that- the environmental impact of rearing so many animals, and it doesn't make much philosophical sense to be veggy.
What would you accept by way of source?
Their practices are abhorrent, and the way you get mass produced milk (think about when mammals start to produce milk and what you would have to do to get them to keep doing that) is by its very nature cruel.
I'd be somewhat willing to support someone eating eggs produced by their own chickens, at least you know they're looked after, but if your objection to eating meat is based on concerns for animal welfare I would find it hard to justify consuming dairy.
At the end of the day its still an animal product isn't it. A form of liquified flesh.
Antibiotics in milk.
Puss.
Dairy cows being kept on a continuous cycle of pregnancy.
Not a baby cow.
I mean, those are pretty big reasons for me at least. There are more.
Nothing wrong in animal products, as long as they are in moderation preventing need for mass production. Maybe without animal farming, the price of dairy will be higher and I'm OK to shell out more. Or I'll change.
I'll protest against animal farming, not dairy products. Same with meat too.
A dairy cow is still slaughtered only a fraction in to their life. The two shouldn't be separated. The dairy industry is the meat industry. Dairy cows just go down different paths before meeting premature death.
Not sure if I agree with that given all the standard arguments against it (environment, health, and compassion). As a meat eater, I still find myself in conflict of all three issues. Also, the everything in moderation thing doesn't really work, otherwise there would be little to no obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease etc.
These diseases you mention are are part of wider lifestyle choices/issues.... drinking, smoking, exercise, pressure, anxiety, depression...there are so many factors that can contribute to them. Saying avoiding meat/dairy means you can avoid those diseases would be wrong. I've known meat eaters live to healthy old age. It differs vastly to be attributed solely to food you eat. Same with farmed foods too. Eat a lot of potatoes/rice and you get obese due to carbs. Moderation is the key irrespective of what you eat, meat or vegetable.
With the population expanding at blistering pace, we are running out of meat sources. They are finite and harder to farm...leading to inhumane and unethical measures. Farming is a much simpler choice and can easily feed the populace even with current rate of growth. It is inevitable that we'll move to farm based foods as we continue to grow.
Only if you ignore the global emissions of vegan farts that you'd be creating. It's all a delicate ecosystem.
Meat is murder when it gets stuck between the teeth
If I remember correctly you making this argument so vehemently in Caf discussions some six-seven-eight years ago was influential in making me realize I had to give up on that half-hearted vegetarian stuff. So thanks for that. Converted to veganism by a meat eater...
Thanks. I think. Of course this just further underlines my own hypocrisy!Why drive when you can fly?
Between airport and flight time its roughly the same as driving.
The real deal would be chicken breast accurately replicated. That would make me 90% vegetarian instantly. Imagine the effect that could have on the world.
Anyone in the UK had the No Bull Burgers that Iceland have started doing?
Same idea as these I think, and they're bloody delicious (pun half intended they use beetroot extract to mimic blood) reckon they're the best vegan burger I've had.
Same idea as these I think, and they're bloody delicious (pun half intended they use beetroot extract to mimic blood) reckon they're the best vegan burger I've had.
Sounds interesting. Love me some beetroot.
Isnt it in our very nature to love hunting animals, killing them and eating their meat? Thats the circle of life
The Counter chain in SoCal has them.
I tried one a few months ago. It looked like a meat burger for the most part but the taste was more like a really flavorful veggie burger, which it is. I’ll have to give it another go soon. Off to 5 guys tomorrow though.
Maybe so but 99.999%* of people buy their meats in cardboard or plastic packaging. Hardly instinct is it?
*A complete guess.
There plenty of things that are animalistic that some people enjoy. It doesn't make it more 'moral' because it's the state of nature.
Humans have moral agency and are therefore responsible for the suffering we may inflict on others.
We also like to turn over any attractive female we meet and feck their brains out. It’s a very poor argument.
Not sure if it makes it any less moral either - since we still eat animals to survive. And by that I don't mean well to do western nations, but more so a vast majority of the world. In that sense there a hint of truth to what Captain Obvious was saying.
I tried it and was impressed after the first 2 mouthfuls, but decided I wouldn’t buy them again by the time I’d finished it.
The appearance was very much like animal meat but the taste wasn’t to my liking. The exaggerated pink colour inside was slightly off-putting too - I seem to be in the minority though, going by Instagram comments and posts I’ve seen on forums.
Anyone know when the Impossible Burger will be sold in the UK? I read the Beyond Meat burger will hit shelves shortly, and will be stored in the freezer aisles rather than fresh meat aisles like in the US.
Has anyone tried Quorns Vegan Crispy ‘chicken’ Fillets, Cumberland Sausages and Hot & Spicy ‘chicken’ Burgers?
They’re probably the best 3 mock-meat products I’ve bought. Meat eaters probably wouldn’t tell the difference.
They’re probably the best 3 mock-meat products I’ve bought. Meat eaters probably wouldn’t tell the difference.
Its quickly getting to the point where the meatless products are getting to the point where meat eaters can't tell the difference. which is why the meat and dairy industries have been trying to block the sale of these items.
Yeah, they really are. Especially the dairy industry - many households in the UK use an alternative to cows milk now, give it another 5-10 years and the majority of the population will be using plant milk.
As for meat, I recently tried ‘seitan’ duck and chicken from my local Chinese takeaway and was truly shocked at similarities in texture/mouthfeel and taste. After inspecting the pieces closely I had to ring them up to confirm it wasn’t actual animal meat.
The sooner seitan becomes mainstream, the better.
Can you imagine seitan being sold at KFC? No one would tell the difference.
i had the impossible burger last week. it was like a decent hamburger. not great but a good replacement. if someone served it to me and told me it was a burger i would think it was just a normal frozen burger
What gets me about current pretending to be real burger vege burgers, is that it’s usually the taste that lets it down the most in my experience. Like, surely that’s the easy bit? If they get that right the texture could be overlooked more.
You got tricked into eating cauliflower that someone served as potatoes though.
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I challenge anyone to eat a jackfruit taco and not think it’s pulled pork
I tried southern fried jackfruit yesterday for the first time and was staggered at how close it was to a fried chicken breast/thigh.
Just shows that animal meat is really all about the texture and mouthfeel. It has minimal flavour hence why not many people eat a plain-jane chicken or steak, it’s always seasoned.
If I were to eat a 2 and a half year decomposed burger, I think I'd go with the regular whopper over the impossible burger.