Film The Irishman | Martin Scorsese | 2019

[Infra-red]

Cheers, Alexa OK Google who the hell was Jimmy Hoffa?

The President of the Teamsters Union and one of the most famous men of his day (late 50s - early 70s) in the US.

He was also closely associated with the US Mafia, who used the Teamsters Pension Fund to build half of Las Vegas.

He mysteriously disappeared in 1975.

 

[Class of 63]

The President of the Teamsters Union and one of the most famous men of his day (late 50s - early 70s) in the US.

He was also closely associated with the US Mafia, who used the Teamsters Pension Fund to build half of Las Vegas.

He mysteriously disappeared in 1975.

Jimmy Riddle Hoffa - sure he wasn't a Cockney? Going for a Jimmy(Widdle/Piddle), and Wikipedia have got his Son down as James 'P' Hoffa

 

[Buchan]

So, anyone take the plunge yet? Thoughts?

Can’t wait to see it, personally.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I'm dying to see it but I have no idea when I'll get 3 and a half hours just to sit on the couch to fecking watch it.

 

[Buchan]

I'm dying to see it but I have no idea when I'll get 3 and a half hours just to sit on the couch to fecking watch it.

Same here. I reckon I’ll have to settle for ~one hour installments.

 

[RobinLFC]

I'm dying to see it but I have no idea when I'll get 3 and a half hours just to sit on the couch to fecking watch it.

Same, if I can't watch it tomorrow it's gonna have to wait until after the weekend but no doubt my friends will be talking about it during the weekend so really need to watch it tomorrow

 

[Hoof the ball]

Same here. I reckon I’ll have to settle for ~one hour installments.

I wouldn't recommend watching it like that. Scorsese movies are created long, but very deliberately paced in order to build the tension and leave you in the midst of that tension for as long as possible. Breaking the movie apart like that will kill the tension and diminish the emotional impact of the movie. it's not everyday a Scorsese movie comes out. You're much, much better off leaving it until you can give it the full three hours.

 

[Paxi]

Epic so far but I'm massive Scorsese fan.

 

[Skåre Willoch]

I enjoyed it. Still need to digest it, though. A lot to take in. But it felt like a proper Scorsese movie, and I'm a big, big fan. It didnt feel like 3 and a half hours, but _a lot_ of names made it hard to keep track a few times. Jimmy, Johnny, Joey, Nicky, Bobby. And as Jimmy said, "they're all cousins".

 

[izec]

Will give it a go watch tomorrow before the Europa League, really excited about it

 

[SuperiorXI]

Loved it. Some of the acting was incredible. Hard to believe these guys are so old.

 

[Infra-red]

Loved it. Some of the acting was incredible. Hard to believe these guys are so old.

Joe Pesci's performance, in particular, is great. Well worth all the effort it apparently took Scorsese and De Niro to get him to agree to come out of retirement to do it.

 

[Sky1981]

Was a great movie but lacking something.

Pacino's weakest of all. He looks overacting by a wide margin i have no symphathy at all and to quote pesci "this guys asking to be made example". By the last hour i wish they'd just get on with it. And there's a certain lack of believability about frank as a dangerous guy. Sure he kills effectively and in real world hitman arent flashy like agent 47 but it's really hard to picture a frail pops running around and shooting people. Plus the gangster doesnt look scary and brutal as they were in previous scorcese movies. Casino, goodfellas, they showed that the mobs can and will hurt you, the irishman seems lame in the violence aspect.

But you know what you get with films like these. I just think it wasnt his best.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

I was going to watch this but I thought I'd seen it.
Get the Irish is completely different movie
Worth a watch though

 

[Suedesi]

Excellent, much better than I had expected. Joe Pesci was amazing in it.

 

[utdalltheway]

Watched it tonight as they released it on Netflix. What a cast!
Proper gangster/mafia movie.

 

[Hawks2008]

Really good film with great performances all around.

 

[VorZakone]

Same here. I reckon I’ll have to settle for ~one hour installments.

That's a terrible way of watching a movie IMO. It will hurt the movie's momentum.

 

[Raw]

Haven't seen it yet, how does the de-aging look?

 

[Mockney]

Haven't seen it yet, how does the de-aging look?

Not great. It’s not intrusive and you get used to it after a while (I’m only an hour in myself) but it’s very obvious these are very old men pretending to be not quite as old men, by the way they move, their body shape, ear/nose size etc, and a bunch of other things a digital smoothing can’t fix... it also makes it hard to work out just how old they’re supposed to be at times. At the beginning DeNiro is being introduced to mob figures like a green new recruit, wearing a trendy Brando hat, but still looks about 60 and is shuffling about stiffly like a geriatric... but in a stupid trendy Brando hat. It’s odd.

 

[Raw]

Not great. It’s not intrusive and you get used to it after a while (I’m only an hour in myself) but it’s very obvious these are very old men pretending to be not quite as old men, by the way they move, their body shape, ear/nose size etc, and a bunch of other things a digital smoothing can’t fix... it also makes it hard to work out just how old they’re supposed to be at times. At the beginning DeNiro is being introduced to mob figures like a green new recruit, wearing a trendy Brando hat, but still looks about 60 and is shuffling about stiffly like a geriatric... but in a stupid trendy Brando hat. It’s odd.

I thought so, de-aging as it is now cannot change the way an old man moves. It's like Samuel L Jackson in that Captain Marvel movie, the face looked great but that illusion fell apart when he had to actually run around. As long as it's something I can get used to then it should be fine.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Not great. It’s not intrusive and you get used to it after a while (I’m only an hour in myself) but it’s very obvious these are very old men pretending to be not quite as old men, by the way they move, their body shape, ear/nose size etc, and a bunch of other things a digital smoothing can’t fix... it also makes it hard to work out just how old they’re supposed to be at times. At the beginning DeNiro is being introduced to mob figures like a green new recruit, wearing a trendy Brando hat, but still looks about 60 and is shuffling about stiffly like a geriatric... but in a stupid trendy Brando hat. It’s odd.

It's rough for the first hour but fine after that.

There's not actually much de-aging for the final two hours of the film (or maybe I just didn't notice it) - it's only at the start where it's jarring for the reasons you described. After that they're acting as broadly their correct ages.

The funniest part is when De Niro has to beat up the grocery store guy - he's supposed to be menacing but clearly moving like an old man. It was almost cruel to watch them try to pretend otherwise.

 

[ThierryHenry]

But anyway, I loved it. It's great that Netflix made it, but I do wish it was kept as a proper cinema release - this is one for the big screen, even in spite of the runtime.

De-aging comments aside, I think it was pretty perfect, as a late-era (post Sopranos) gangster/ Scorcese movie. Didn't glamourise the life, made it clear that all of these men will end up dead and/or miserable, without their families' support. I particularly loved the middle third of the film, where Sheeran's story interweaved with the history of the 60s - very James Ellroy/ American Tabloid (@SteveJ). The section of Hoffa's death was great as well, incredibly long build up of tension before we got to it.

With the exception of Pacino, also thought it was surprisingly understated for a Scorcese film, very somber mood throughout. Though don't get me wrong, I loved Pacino's overacting, great to see him having fun in a role again.

 

[R.N7]

Yeah, De Niro and co still look like old men even at their youngest in this film, should have just dyed their hair instead and saved a lot of money. De Niro' s blue eyes never looked real as well.

 

[SteveJ]

*rubs hands like Michael Owen*

 

[Organic Potatoes]

I’m struggling with knowing De Niro is a couple decades too old (and a couple inches too short) for his character at times.

Pesci and the rest of the cast are great though.

 

[Coxy]

That's a terrible way of watching a movie IMO. It will hurt the movie's momentum.

Indeed, but some of us have no choice! I'm watching it in half hourly instalments at work on my lunch breaks. It's either that or wait an eternity for when I have long enough to watch - my wife won't be interested and the odd time I have an hour to myself (i.e. she's gone to bed early) I'll be gaming.

 

[poleglass red]

It's rough for the first hour but fine after that.

There's not actually much de-aging for the final two hours of the film (or maybe I just didn't notice it) - it's only at the start where it's jarring for the reasons you described. After that they're acting as broadly their correct ages.

The funniest part is when De Niro has to beat up the grocery store guy - he's supposed to be menacing but clearly moving like an old man. It was almost cruel to watch them try to pretend otherwise.

him attacking the grocery guy was a bit cringing, I thought surely they could have filmed him from the back and used a stunt double. Also the scene where he head locks the guy at the start who owes money and pretends his mum has died was also weak. Decent film so far, I'm about an hr in.

 

[RMD83]

him attacking the grocery guy was a bit cringing, I thought surely they could have filmed him from the back and used a stunt double. Also the scene where he head locks the guy at the start who owes money and pretends his mum has died was also weak. Decent film so far, I'm about an hr in.

Thought the same. What made it look so odd was the cgi face of a 40 year old man but the body moving like a 70 year old man. Looked ridiculous.

 

[RMD83]

I watched it last night. Quite a late night in the end. I thought it was good, nothing special. I’m glad I watched it, it was great to see De Niro, Pacino, Kietel and Pesci on screen together again but it fell short of the films of it’s genre it will be held up against. Decent film but far from scorcese’s best. The CGI in the first hour was hugely distracting as well, you would go along with it for a minute or so but then suddenly there would be a shot that looked so bad it took you out the moment. Really great to see the mighty De Niro doing what he does best again, considering the last film I saw him in he was wanking himself off in front of Zac Effron. I’d give it 7/10.

 

[Suedesi]

I watched it last night. Quite a late night in the end. I thought it was good, nothing special. I’m glad I watched it, it was great to see De Niro, Pacino, Kietel and Pesci on screen together again but it fell short of the films of it’s genre it will be held up against. Decent film but far from scorcese’s best. The CGI in the first hour was hugely distracting as well, you would go along with it for a minute or so but then suddenly there would be a shot that looked so bad it took you out the moment. Really great to see the mighty De Niro doing what he does best again, considering the last film I saw him in he was wanking himself off in front of Zac Effron. I’d give it 7/10.

But anyway, I loved it. It's great that Netflix made it, but I do wish it was kept as a proper cinema release - this is one for the big screen, even in spite of the runtime.

De-aging comments aside, I think it was pretty perfect, as a late-era (post Sopranos) gangster/ Scorcese movie. Didn't glamourise the life, made it clear that all of these men will end up dead and/or miserable, without their families' support. I particularly loved the middle third of the film, where Sheeran's story interweaved with the history of the 60s - very James Ellroy/ American Tabloid (@SteveJ). The section of Hoffa's death was great as well, incredibly long build up of tension before we got to it.

With the exception of Pacino, also thought it was surprisingly understated for a Scorcese film, very somber mood throughout. Though don't get me wrong, I loved Pacino's overacting, great to see him having fun in a role again.

It was - has been on limited release in cinemas in the States for about a month

Don't think this is a gangster movie per se - it's based on a real story. It's got the action and all that, but it's piece of American history that happens to play out in the context of organized crime and such it feels more reflective. I loved it despite the de-aging flaws.

 

[Suedesi]

Cheers, Alexa OK Google who the hell was Jimmy Hoffa?

James Hoffa, mostly known by the media as Jimmy, was a labor organizer even in his early career—at 14, he dropped out of school to work full time, and as a teenager he organized fellow grocery store workers to challenge unfair treatment by managers and to advocate for higher wages. He joined the International Brotherhood of the Teamsters in 1932 when he was still a teen, and by 1957 was elected president of the union, which at that point represented nearly one million truck drivers and warehouse workers. At one point in The Irishman, a voiceover from De Niro’s Sheeran asserts that Hoffa, in the 1950s and ’60s, was more famous than Elvis or the Beatles. That’s not an exaggeration—in a time when nearly one-third of American workers belonged to a union, Hoffa was the movement’s most famous face and de facto voice. On July 30, 1975, Hoffa set out for a lunch meeting at a local restaurant, and when he hadn’t returned home by the next morning, his wife Josephine called police. No trace of Hoffa was seen after that day, and he was declared legally dead in 1982. While some thought he was murdered by mafia associates, others thought it might be rivals within the Teamsters, and another line of inquiry attempted to discover whether or not Hoffa, afraid for his life, vanished of his own accord.


Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...seses-irishman-180973620/#2fTjg5spO2QcrlvO.99

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I watched it last night and while the de-aging is a little bit jarring in the first hour, it's overall a bloody excellent film. It's not a pure gangster film (for a large chunk of a film, the mafia takes a backseat and is only relevant with a few cutaway scenes), more a period piece which the mafia place an important role in. I loved all the performances - Pesci and de Niro in their understated approach were great, and I felt Pacino brought to the screen the passion of Hoffa and his intense love for his union. I feel like it was necessary to explain how stubborn he became, and didn't really fall into the trap of overacting for the sake of it.

The last half hour was full of nostalgie and sadness and the final shot was pretty moving too.

Overall, 3h30 well spent and could be a classic in the making. Nice one Marty.

 

[Sky1981]

Yeah, De Niro and co still look like old men even at their youngest in this film, should have just dyed their hair instead and saved a lot of money. De Niro' s blue eyes never looked real as well.

As cringey as it sounds. Much better than using a different actor to play the younger them

 

[Mockney]

It’s really good (obviously) but maybe a hair off being truly great because as wonderful as the Hoffa section is, and as perfect an epilogue that follows (bucking a trend in even some of the very best Scorsese movies of refusing to take a narrative stance of the lives of borish violent men) the first forty minutes to an hour or so isn't quite as engrossing as it could be, and certainly a little loose pacing wise. Plus the de-aging is a distracting blemish, however small.

Thought the same. What made it look so odd was the cgi face of a 40 year old man but the body moving like a 70 year old man. Looked ridiculous.

Without wanting to labour on the de-aging too much (but doing so anyway) one of the big problems was that it very obviously wasn't the face of a 40 year old man. DeNiro was nearly 50 when he filmed Goodfellas for example, and he looked like this...

... and that isn't remotely what he looks like in this film. Not to mention that timeline wise, he's actually supposed to be in his 30s during the earliest, truck driving period of this film!! (let alone the brief scene where he's in his 20s) possibly peak De Niro attractiveness (De Niro was making Taxi Driver in his 30s FFS) and the film presents us with this monstrosity!

That's not the face of a 20, 30 or even 40 year old. It's the skin of one, stretched over the sagging droopy musculature of a 70 year old!

As cringey as it sounds. Much better than using a different actor to play the younger them

Personally, I think it would've been much better to have had younger actors play the older them... the over-aging late in the film looked a lot better and more durable to future watching than the first hour did.

The biggest problem is that it’s going to age really terribly, something that casting different people never will, however different they look...It's all well and good saying it's not too distracting now, but it will be in 5 years... Imagine a world where De Niro never played Vito Corleone in Godfather II because Coppola could photoshop a horrifying skin graft onto an insane fat Marlon Brando. True cinematic magic, no doubt. Those pesky Marvel films be damned!

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I think the de-aging will age badly, sure, but the film sure as hell won't. It will be an amusing footnote of an otherwise excellent film (though I agree with your point regarding the opening act, even though I'm not sure how it could've been done differently, in fact).

 

[Mockney]

I think the de-aging will age badly, sure, but the film sure as well won't. It will be an amusing footnote of an otherwise excellent film (though I agree with your point regarding the opening act, even though I'm not sure how it could've been done differently, in fact).

I guess we'll find out. I hope so, but I reckon the classic status of a film depends an awful lot on it's rewatch value for subsequent generations, and as just about tolerable as it is now, it'll get worse and worse with every passing year. And it's easy to say "it's just the first hour" but it's also, you know, "the first entire fecking hour!".... No film student in 2019 has to worry about horrifically dated CGI when appreciating The Godfather or Goodfellas.

Whilst still amazing films, made by amazing directors, would Jurassic Park and T2 still be regarded as the timeless classics they are today if they'd had the same dated SFX as Godzilla '98? And they're action films. Things you expect to date badly!

Sure, we'd lose out on the Al & Bobby show (both of whom are terrific) but I still feel casting actors in their 40s or 50s and aging them up would've been a whole lot better for the durability of this picture... Because I was very aware for the entire 3 and a bit hours of it's run time, that I was watching a bunch of incredibly old and immobile men shuffling around in big warm coats, and it kinda sapped the energy out of it for long periods, particularly at the start, when they're supposed to be young (the parts where Stephen Graham turned up, for example, were amongst the most dynamic of the movie, purely because you actually believed he could land a punch without turning to dust!)

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Maybe, I shouldn't be so adamant about it ageing well - I'm probably overly enthusiastic because there are not many contemporary films similar to this, and it has the feeling of a classic. But yeah, time will tell.

As for the rewatch value, I feel there's a lot of films considered classics nowadays that haven't aged well (I recently re-watched Temple of Doom which looks so bad), but I guess for certain films, the cheesy look can work in its favour to an extent (which wouldn't apply here), and it also depends on what people define as a "classic".

 

[SteveJ]

As Mr M suggested, with the right casting there's no need for CGI or the like:

 

[hobbers]

It's good but it's not on a level to Goodfellas or the Departed. Granted it's not really as much of a gangster film.

The de-ageing is pretty jarring. It might make De Niro look younger but it sure does nothing to help the fact that he still moves like an 80 year old.

And yeah, it's a very weak Pacino performance. By far the weakest I've seen of him, at least in any film that's critically-acclaimed.