DoomSlayer
New Member
Physical alterations among fans should never be condoned. Not sure how I'm the one talking shite in this case.Talking out your arse mate.
Dont make it out I'm defending kids in danger ffs
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Physical alterations among fans should never be condoned. Not sure how I'm the one talking shite in this case.Talking out your arse mate.
Dont make it out I'm defending kids in danger ffs
So what you are saying is it's just a lovely day out for them with their mates at the pub. You go to a football match and football is just a small part. Dont forget that the "armchair fan" has the benefit of replays, commentary and analysis so I would argue that their opinion is more informed then the match going supporters.Heh. I think for an armchair fan its hard to understand that the actual football is quite a small part of match going fans experience. For them its turning the tv on just before the match and back off again after so their priorities are totally different. A regular who goes to the pub with their mates beforehand singing songs, gets some food outside the ground, sits in with people they know, goes back to the pub after etc etc etc. The two types of fans are totally different in their support and will likely rarely agree.
It's a start I agree but who are we trying to replace them with? Ed admitted himself that he struggles to get 2 signings done in a window never mind the 7 or 8 players we need. Academy players thrown in to the deep end is certainly not the solution.Yeah that was poorly worded. What I meant was that we are moving out the players that everyone agreed were not the future here. Lingard will be gone soon, as will Mata, as will Young, as will Rojo. Not sure about Jones - he looks to be unsellable.
Better prepare your newfound free time, we will sign jack shit.Well let me be first. If we don't bring in 1or 2 players this window, I will stop travelling over to games for rest of this season.
Exactly. He may be a success commercially but what the owners need to realise is lack of success on the pitch eventually leads to lack of success off the pitch, with sponsors pulling out, and less money coming from champions League etc. The two go hand in hand, as commercial success allows us to get the best players and coach available and move on from there.This is the way we should be thinking.
First off, get Ed Woodward out of that position with immediate effect - it's laughable that he's still employed in that position, I mean, any owner that actually cared about the success of the football club would have sacked him after 2 seasons, yet he's riding on 7 seasons of absolute failure.
He must be ousted. Wake up Utd fans.
No arguments here. We desperately need new players.It's a start I agree but who are we trying to replace them with? Ed admitted himself that he struggles to get 2 signings done in a window never mind the 7 or 8 players we need. Academy players thrown in to the deep end is certainly not the solution.
People have paid out for season tickets. No chance that they are going to waste that. If a message needs to be sent, we will see it at renewal time.Well let me be first. If we don't bring in 1or 2 players this window, I will stop travelling over to games for rest of this season.
Now we need about 70,000 others to do same.
I am not saying the manager is good enough. This is not football manager mate, thanks for naming the players but has it ever occurred to you that the player would have to be willing to come to Manutd?150m pounds is more than enough to give the rookie manager and expect progress. A very few clubs can afford that so don't give him that excuse.
Why is he here? You can ask the board and whilst you are at it ask them about Moyes too.
8 names?
Rabiot - moved for free.
Thorgan Hazard 25m EUR
J. Brand - 25m EUR
Fekir - 20m EUR
Barella - 12m EUR loan fee(with option to buy next window)
Håland just moved to Dortmund for 20m EUR.
That's just around 105m EUR for 6 names that were available and switched clubs for those prices.
I think you can easily come up with 2 players for about 35m EUR each.
I'm just giving you an examples of players that moved for relatively low fee that we can use and are most probably an upgrade to what we have.I am not saying the manager is good enough. This is not football manager mate, thanks for naming the players but has it ever occurred to you that the player would have to be willing to come to Manutd?
Rabiot - Wanted Juventus
Hazard - Is he an upgrade to Rashford?
Brandt - Went to Dortmund couldnt get into first team and is now moved to Benfica.
Fekir - Injury prone
Barella - How good is he do you know? Have you ever seen him play?
Haaland - Clearly didnt want to come to Manutd.
I think you need to do better than that. You can't force a player to join United.
How many of the players have you watched play if any~?
I know what you are saying and agree.I'm just giving you an examples of players that moved for relatively low fee that we can use and are most probably an upgrade to what we have.
Hazard - can play alongside him.
Fekir played more than 150 games in the last four seasons so that injury prone nonsense has to stop. I know about those concerns but so far he has been ok in that department and especially at that price.
Brandt might have had problems with adjusting but is a quality player.
Barella - yes I watch Inter from time to time (because of Conte not Lukaku and actually making the Serie A interesting for a while).
Haland - if I was him I wouldn't want to play under League One manager either.
It doesn't have to be those players and I'm not paid to recruit players, but there are ton of players playing on the continent that can improve us on decent fees, or you don't agree with that?
So we agree at the end - the scouting network sucks and so does the board(Ed) when it comes to negotiationI know what you are saying and agree.
If I was a young player like the ones you have mentioned, why would you come to United? money is the only reason.
if you are moving clubs at 22/23 you want to know what is happening, a business plan?
Do United have one ? No.
Are there players that can improve us? absolutely, but we have a scouting network that is pure lazy and a board who cannot do anything.
If there was a player available for £20m, would you trust Woody to get them for less than £60m? No.
I give you an example: Dembele was priced at £60m in the summer apparently, in the January window where allegdly it is hard to do business you can get him for £50m.
I don't think Ole is up to snuff, but sacking him will not suddenly make us challenge.What's the thing both of those clubs have in common? First class off the field structures.
Man City have won the league under 3 different managers, but since their takeover, their off-field structure has always been exceptional. When Pep goes, another coach will pick up where he left off.
Liverpool spent 25 years doing what you're doing now, then realised the only way to challenge would be to drastically alter their off-field structure. They appointed a DOF just after Klopp cam in and their recruitment has been second to none ever since.
Other clubs are picking up on this. If you are well run and get the club structure and recruitment spot on, you can challenge the elite. Leicester are the standouts in this category, with my club Wolves doing bits too.
As others above have pointed out, until you make drastic changes to your structure, any manager will struggle.
You still don't get it.
First, your "right manager" would just refuse us the same way Klopp and Pep did. Even us fans would know how shit our state is as a football club, the guys in the football world would have no idea? Honestly I'd doubt any great manager (or even potential great) with a serious football project would come to us now.
Second, your idea is the same with having a broken machine making broken products. Yeah keep making those. Maybe we'll get a good one, the last one was crap. How about a new machine?
And about Liverpool owners. Klopp refused us but came to Liverpool. Does this tell you something about our owners and Liverpool owners?
Honestly I don't get the hate you gave to Ole and you not mentioning a thing about the Glazers, Ed and co while it's clear as day that those are our biggest problem.
Thank you for the answer.There's a season that can be salvaged here, so let's not pretend that a top manager won't make a difference. Ole is simply not good enough. His tactics are crap, he naively allowed too many players to go without bothering if the club will bring in replacements in and he spent 130m on a defence which with all due respect still lack a WC player, that while letting United start the season with no CM, no RW and no cover upfront.
Having said that if I had a choice between bringing in January a top DOF & a head of recruitment or bringing in a top manager then I'd choose the former.
Regarding the Glazers its pretty evident that they won't put Woodward in his box unless they are forced into it. Hence why the match going fans must stop this standing ovations and they should start getting nasty. That means banners, booing, organised walk outs. Sponsors won't like being associated with a club in turmoil and hitting the owner's pockets its the only thing that can get them started.They should also stop listening to what former players say. This is our club not theirs.
I said great manager with a serious football project.Would disagree there about top managers refusing us, top managers still go to the likes of Chelsea, PSG and real Madrid knowing how trigger happy they are to sack a manager after just 1 season even if they do moderately well.
Then look at clubs like Leicester, Atletico Madrid, inter Milan, spurs (potchettino appointment) and Napoli who have been mid table sides that hired the right guy.
There's plenty of good managers out there that would love to challenge themselves at United or in the premier league and there is a massive amount of managers out there that would be a far better upgrade on ole, even the likes of Mourinho and van Gaal who were/are way past their best and uninspired appointments, were still better than Solskjear and had/have some pull of making it appealing to join United.
The funny thing is that we can probably edge things out with barely firing anyone, at least at first. I mean, if the Glazers are serious about the project then they would move Woodward in what he does best (ie making money), they would then hire a CEO who understand football (Marotta?), a DOF (Campos? Rangnick?), and a new head of recruitment (Mitchell?). If we're able to bring in a new top manager in January then fine, if not Ole could stay till summer when he's promoted to board level as deputy CEO. Some might say Ole would want to remain in football management, however, after fecking up at United and Cardiff there's hardly great prospects for him on that camp which makes the deputy CEO role quite attractive to him. Meanwhile Phelan will remain as the new manager's assistant with the task of bringing in some continuity between the old and the new. Unlike Carrick and Mckenna he's got the experience and football know of how a top club is run having previously worked with a real manager on top of his game.Thank you for the answer.
I reply you here so we can focus on the topic without being affected too much by the Ole in or Ole out brigade.
Agree with what you said. However imo as any protest we should have one focal point only. More and it'd be less effective.
For example if fans show up with posters saying both "Ed out" and "Ole out" then the message would be quite confusing and less effective than "Ed out & New DoF" imo.
Can't agree more. My thought on Ed is exactly the same, just let the guy does what he's best at and let the football matters to someone else better.The funny thing is that we can probably edge things out with barely firing anyone, at least at first. I mean, if the Glazers are serious about the project then they would move Woodward in what he does best (ie making money), they would then hire a CEO who understand football (Marotta?), a DOF (Campos? Rangnick?), and a new head of recruitment (Mitchell?). If we're able to bring in a new top manager in January then fine, if not Ole could stay till summer when he's promoted to board level as deputy CEO. Some might say Ole would want to remain in football management, however, after fecking up at United and Cardiff there's hardly great prospects for him on that camp which makes the deputy CEO role quite attractive to him. Meanwhile Phelan will remain as the new manager's assistant with the task of bringing in some continuity between the old and the new. Unlike Carrick and Mckenna he's got the experience and football know of how a top club is run having previously worked with a real manager on top of his game.
The new manager will be part of a continuity plan rather then having to start from scratch as its always done by United. Thanks to Ole and Phelan he'd have a clear indication of who are the rotten apples, what needs to be done etc. By summer the DOF and head of recruitment would have the time to at least get rid off some of the deadwood and have 2-3 signings ready. In time changes will be made at youth level, coaching etc, with the manager and the DOF bringing in people whose got experience in the role rather then jobs for the boys.
This post solved it. This thread can be closed now. Nothing more to see, here :hattip:There's no way this thread will descend into local and foreign United fans exchanging barbs about how best to behave at Old Trafford. No sirree.
Oh, I like this idea, VERY MUCH! For as long as the "small private part" means his fecking brains or his soul, because otherwise it's not nice to criticize people for their physical shortcomings.I'd like to think anyone would be affected when tens of thousands people singing about him and his small private part on live TV.
Your bar is way too high, mate. I bet 2/3 or United board could not explain to you what an "offside" means. They don't even understand football, let alone care for it.All those clubs have people in charge who breathe football and want glory above profit.
I went last night and instead of booing I was already in the queue for a beer.
Sorry if I've let the club down lads. Will try harder next week.
You are misrepresenting or are confused about some of the critical facts, there.Let me ask you this, Glazers were here since 2005. We won 5 PL titles, CL and numerous other titles under world class manager. We didn't have a DoF then.
Why is it so difficult to understand that the manager has a large part of how we perform on the field?
Whilst Gill was infinitely better than Woodward, he was not the one who had a say who we buy and who we don't - he was in charge of getting deals done and we still had many that were drawn over the line and generally did business late compared to other teams. Also our scouting network at the time was still nothing special and our "gems" that we unearthed were the likes of Tosic, Bebe, Ljajic, Obertan and the likes.You are misrepresenting or are confused about some of the critical facts, there.
Up until 2013, the chief executive of Manchester United was David Gill - an amazing person, that Woodward isn't worthy of shining the shoes of. That made all the difference, not just the manager. The board was also somewhat different.
Also, worth noting that the club was initially owned by papa Glazer. He had slightly more brains than his clueless offsprings who got in charge after his decline in health and eventual death. So there is that as well.
And he also seems to forget that there was someone called SAF and all that 5 titles were won by that gentlemanYou are misrepresenting or are confused about some of the critical facts, there.
Up until 2013, the chief executive of Manchester United was David Gill - an amazing person, that Woodward isn't worthy of shining the shoes of. That made all the difference, not just the manager. The board was also somewhat different.
Also, worth noting that the club was initially owned by papa Glazer. He had slightly more brains than his clueless offsprings who got in charge after his decline in health and eventual death. So there is that as well.
You are correct that SAF was in charge of transfer decisions but the point is - Gill didnt override him and was able to get his desires done most of the time. Two things Woodward doesn't do - he got in the ways of coaches like LvG and Mourinho, and has consistently failed at handling various dealsWhilst Gill was infinitely better than Woodward, he was not the one who had a say who we buy and who we don't - he was in charge of getting deals done and we still had many that were drawn over the line and generally did business late compared to other teams. Also our scouting network at the time was still nothing special and our "gems" that we unearthed were the likes of Tosic, Bebe, Ljajic, Obertan and the likes.
As for papa Glazer - Buccaneers demise began in 08 and they are still to make a playoff appearance - goes to show the way he handled a sport that he knew better.
Of course Gill had a big part in the management but you can't argue that when it comes to the footballing side, especially for United it always has been 90% the manager (in the last 30 years at least).
No argument there, still neither Woodward, nor Gill were in charge in identifying targets which is one segment we are clearly lacking.You are correct that SAF was in charge of transfer decisions but the point is - Gill didnt override him and was able to get his desires done most of the time. Two things Woodward doesn't do - he got in the ways of coaches like LvG and Mourinho, and has consistently failed at handling various deals
United takeover happened in 05 and as you mentioned his health didn't allow him to contribute much in our successful seasons so I don't know why you brought it up in the first place as it isn't really a factor.Papa Glazer suffered a stroke in 2006, after which his idiot kids managed to fire an amazing coach they had, so Bucaneers demise by 2008 makes total sense, timewise. Not sure what you tried to prove there
How about some posters?In an ideal world an empty Old Trafford would send a strong message and would surley rattle the Glazers. The problem is that our club is a world wide brand as well as a beloved club on a local, national and a global level. Even if there is a huge amount of people protesting outside of Old Trafford there still is a large number of "so called sandwich" supporters (maybe a harsh word) that paid to visit the stadium and watch the match (and arrived from all parts of the World). Imagine coming to Old Trafford for the first time just to be encouraged to boycott the match? Booing players that are simply not good enough doesn't have much purpose in my book.
The point is it would be really hard, even impossible to organise mass boycott atm imo.I hear you mate but in order to express our general opinion every single person needs to pay the match ticket and I'm afraid that's the only thing the Glazers care about.
Congratulations for your stance.Well let me be first. If we don't bring in 1or 2 players this window, I will stop travelling over to games for rest of this season.
Now we need about 70,000 others to do same.
Beats watching the game.I think instead of watching the game, fans should all turn and stare at Woodward, wherever he is sitting, the entire game as if waiting for him to do something.
A lot of waste there alright, but we still have more deadwood to get rid of.We don't control anything. The only thing controlling our destiny is the gypsy curse. The fans didn't cause the dire capitulation of almost every incoming player. £686.7m has been spent on transfers over the last seven years.
Fellaini, Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria, Blind, Falcao, Valdes, Depay, Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Romero, Martial, Bailly, Ibrahimovic, Mkhitaryan, Pogba, Lindelof, Lukaku, Matic, Sanchez, Dalot, Fred and Grant.
Read that list again.
We either blame a gypsy curse or we blame our "scouts" or whoever signed that dross. Fek me. Even the Glazers can escape blame in this horror show of money wasted.
Seriously dude, it’s shit now, but this is part of being a supporter. Good days and bad days. We all know we had most good days. Suck it up.I don't know how to feel about this club any longer. Maybe all those years hovering in mediocrity have begun to take its toll on me. You can place the blame on the ownership, board, management, or players, whatever... there's no passion in it anymore. Protests? Chants? Boycotting? None of that matters to the people involved in the day-to-day operations. I'm just going to enjoy my occasional football and cheer for the underdogs and until the ship gets righted, root for no particular team (or some foreign team).
Believe me I know there are times when you go through droughts as a sports fan. When there's nothing to suggest there is light at the end of the tunnel, the frustration just gets to you. I just don't see any evidence now to suggest otherwise. I'll always cheer for United and hope good times are coming, but this atmosphere is a complete turnoff.Seriously dude, it’s shit now, but this is part of being a supporter. Good days and bad days. We all know we had most good days. Suck it up.