Significant strikes is a but of a misleading name. Every strike in the stand up is classed as significant, the only strikes that aren't classed as significant are short strikes in the clinch and on the ground. Conditions landed as many significant strikes as Lawler threw, that doesn't account for power though.I never said Condit wasn't throwing with power. I said he wasn't landing anything amazing in that 3rd round. All his power shots might have come in the more clear cut rounds of 1 and 4.
So you guys are telling me Condit threw 502 significant strikes out of 504 in total? And that only 2 of the strikes he landed were not significant?
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Exactly. That stats bollocks is irrlevea
Significant strikes is a very subjective term. Clearly.
You can see how useless those stats are by virtue of the fact it's got Condit ahead even in the last round when anyone with eyes can see he was clinging on for dear life through most of it.I never said Condit wasn't throwing with power. I said he wasn't landing anything amazing in that 3rd round. All his power shots might have come in the more clear cut rounds of 1 and 4.
So you guys are telling me Condit threw 502 significant strikes out of 504 in total? And that only 2 of the strikes he landed were not significant?
Significant strikes is a very subjective term. Clearly.
It's not subjective at all I just explained it in the last post. Technically Condit actually threw and landed more significant strikes, even in round 5. That's an objective truth. As I said though don't confuse significant strikes for power. It literally just means every strike in the stand up and powerful shots in the clinch and on the ground. It should have a different name really.
Well it is subjective in the eyes of the judges which for all intents and purposes is what this discussion relates to. I don't care what fightmetric says. Added to which Lawler was clearly the one controlling the Octagon for most of the fight and was the one pushing forward which is something I haven't seen any of the experts on here mention yet.
I don't think there was really a moment in the fifth where "he was clinging on for dear life". Robbie was coming out like the beast he is, and he was hitting Carlos, but Carlos wasn't hurt so much as exhausted, which Robbie was also.
I thought the last minute or so of the round was rather telling and rather hilarious. Carlos was wading in like a maniac, getting tagged, tagging Robbie but he was so exhausted he couldn't even get his knee up to make contact on the knees he threw. He also threw a kick at one point, where his foot only got about a foot off the ground.
The fifth round was pretty clearly Robbies, but it wasn't like he was about to end the fight at any second, he was hitting Carlos clean and Carlos didn't like it but he also didn't seem to be hurt, it was more like two maniacs threw everything and the kitchen sink at each other, and Robbie landed the more effective shots in the opening and middle stanzas of the round. I thought Carlos actually punched himself out a bit in the fourth round when he hurt Robbie and jumped on him. It took until about 2/3rds of the way through the round for Robbie to reach an equivalent level of exhaustion.
At the end of the fight, I thought it was a pretty clear cut victory for Carlos. Again, both guys are maniacs. Just IDGAF tier nutters.
Significant strikes is not a subjective stat it is just a misleading name and not the be all and end all. Fights aren't supposed to be judged purely on significant strikes, clearly Condit didn't actually win the 5th round. Like all stats they are useful just to complement what you witness. The main reason significant strikes can be misleading as a stat is actually because it lacks any subjectivity in terms of differentiating between a power strike and a normal strike.
As for the second point, yes Lawler was the aggressor. Octagon control is a really vague term that I've never liked. No one can adequately explain it. Most of the time the person who is the aggressor is just considered to be controlling the octagon as well, which is a double reward. Both guys were looking to stand and bang and that's what they did, I'm not really sure if either had more 'octagon control' than the other overall. I'm a big fan of Lawler he's one of my favourite champions and he puts on great fights. It was just disappointing for it to end in a very controversial decision, if the scores had gone as about 75% of people saw it no one would have complained. Now all anyone is talking about is the 3rd round which was maybe the most uneventful round of the fight. To top it off Condit is talking about retiring which is a bummer. Hopefully he can be convinced to run this one back. Circumstances like this are the only time immediate rematches are valid in my opinion.
I think I'm going to go back and watch each round carefully and see if I see the fight differently on second viewing.
Upon rewatch:
Round 1: Condit. Not much analysis needed.
Round 2: Lawler. Condit was the aggressor in this round but Lawler caught him with some nice shots and of course got a knockdown.
Round 3: Okay so the most important round. Condit was the aggressor in the first 1:20 of the round, controlling the distance with kicks, Lawler was defending decently but offering nothing. Then Lawler goes on the front foot and lands a few nice shots backing Carlos up to the cage, but Carlos also lands a nice knee in the process which Lawler eats. As they come back to the centre Lawler lands a very nice elbow. The next 2 minutes is similar to the start of the round with Condit the aggressor and controlling the distance with kicks, most defended apart from leg kicks getting through. In the final minute Condit throws a decent flurry and backs Lawler up against the cage. Lawler reverses and tries for a takedown, Condit reverses and they separate with Robbie back on the outside and Condit the aggressor. Good body kick lands for Carlos and a good leg kick for Robbie. The round ends.
It's a pretty close round but, still, it isn't really a hard round to score in favour of Condit in my opinion. It feels like a real reach to award that round for Robbie. He barely threw anything apart from a nice minute stretch where he went on the offensive and landed some good strikes as well as a nice elbow. He also ate a nice knee in that period though and the rest of the round was all Condit.
Round 4: Some nice counter punching from Robbie in the first minute but eventually Condit takes over and begins to dominate. Robbie becomes more urgent but Condit retains the upper hand and goes back to picking him apart for most of the round. He wobbles him with 40 seconds of the round to go and really puts the pressure on with Robbie hurt up against the cage. Condit.
Round 5: Madness. Robbie comes flying out of the blocks but Carlos actually copes with it well initially and lands the better shots in the first minute of the round. Robbie lands a nice overhand right near the cage but Carlos goes back to winning the exchanges once back in the centre of the octagon. Condit is winning the round with 1:40 to go when Lawler lands a beautiful counter right. From there Robbie backs him to the cage and really starts swinging for the fences. Condit tries to return in kind but Robbie is the one landing the bombs. Condit is completely spent but his chin is made of titanium and holds up. With 1 minute to go Robbie has also emptied his gas tank and they stumble around, right at the death they are swinging wildly.
Fantastic round. Both guys are absolute warriors as we already knew. Lawler won the round but it was actually closer than I thought on first viewing.
Summary:
48-47 Condit. Kind of a close fight but I stick by my initial view that it wasn't really that hard a fight to score. Lawler did land some nice shots but they were too few and far between. Condit had Lawler in trouble briefly towards the end of the 4th. Lawler had Condit briefly in trouble in the 5th. Both guys have solid chins and held up. Hopefully we will see it settled in a rematch, no offence to Woodley but I think most would rather see this run back. At the very least I hope Condit doesn't retire off of the loss. Both guys are class acts and fan favourites.
Round 1: Condit. Not much analysis needed.
Round 2: Lawler. Condit was the aggressor in this round but Lawler caught him with some nice shots and of course got a knockdown.
Round 3: Okay so the most important round. Condit was the aggressor in the first 1:20 of the round, controlling the distance with kicks, Lawler was defending decently but offering nothing. Then Lawler goes on the front foot and lands a few nice shots backing Carlos up to the cage, but Carlos also lands a nice knee in the process which Lawler eats. As they come back to the centre Lawler lands a very nice elbow. The next 2 minutes is similar to the start of the round with Condit the aggressor and controlling the distance with kicks, most defended apart from leg kicks getting through. In the final minute Condit throws a decent flurry and backs Lawler up against the cage. Lawler reverses and tries for a takedown, Condit reverses and they separate with Robbie back on the outside and Condit the aggressor. Good body kick lands for Carlos and a good leg kick for Robbie. The round ends.
It's a pretty close round but, still, it isn't really a hard round to score in favour of Condit in my opinion. It feels like a real reach to award that round for Robbie. He barely threw anything apart from a nice minute stretch where he went on the offensive and landed some good strikes as well as a nice elbow. He also ate a nice knee in that period though and the rest of the round was all Condit.
Round 4: Some nice counter punching from Robbie in the first minute but eventually Condit takes over and begins to dominate. Robbie becomes more urgent but Condit retains the upper hand and goes back to picking him apart for most of the round. He wobbles him with 40 seconds of the round to go and really puts the pressure on with Robbie hurt up against the cage. Condit.
Round 5: Madness. Robbie comes flying out of the blocks but Carlos actually copes with it well initially and lands the better shots in the first minute of the round. Robbie lands a nice overhand right near the cage but Carlos goes back to winning the exchanges once back in the centre of the octagon. Condit is winning the round with 1:40 to go when Lawler lands a beautiful counter right. From there Robbie backs him to the cage and really starts swinging for the fences. Condit tries to return in kind but Robbie is the one landing the bombs. Condit is completely spent but his chin is made of titanium and holds up. With 1 minute to go Robbie has also emptied his gas tank and they stumble around, right at the death they are swinging wildly.
Fantastic round. Both guys are absolute warriors as we already knew. Lawler won the round but it was actually closer than I thought on first viewing.
Summary:
48-47 Condit. Kind of a close fight but I stick by my initial view that it wasn't really that hard a fight to score. Lawler did land some nice shots but they were too few and far between. Condit had Lawler in trouble briefly towards the end of the 4th. Lawler had Condit briefly in trouble in the 5th. Both guys have solid chins and held up. Hopefully we will see it settled in a rematch, no offence to Woodley but I think most would rather see this run back. At the very least I hope Condit doesn't retire off of the loss. Both guys are class acts and fan favourites.
You really like that word
I agree with your analysis but not sure about the rematch thing. I don't think Condit deserved a title shot over Woodley in the first place (as well as many others) and I don't think the UFC will screw these other guys up again to give Condit another shot at the title.
I quite like this idea to make it a 20 point scoring system
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2016/01/04/ufc-195-aftermath-how-do-we-solve-mmas-judging-issue/
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2016/01/04/ufc-195-aftermath-how-do-we-solve-mmas-judging-issue/
Nice spot.You really like that word
I agree with your analysis but not sure about the rematch thing. I don't think Condit deserved a title shot over Woodley in the first place (as well as many others) and I don't think the UFC will screw these other guys up again to give Condit another shot at the title.
I'd normally put a bit more effort into my adjectives to be fair, but I was mainly just using it to highlight certain key strikes and I had Joe Rogan ringing in my ear.
The way the current 10 point must system is enforced is certainly far from ideal. Simply being a lot looser with 10-8 rounds would help in a lot of circumstances. 10-8 for rounds with a clear winner and 10-9 for pick'em rounds. The current 10-8's would become 10-7's.
I've only watched the fight once so far, on first watching it my feeling was that Condit was throwing a lot of stuff that wasn't really doing a great deal. It made him look more active at times than he actually was.
There's no way this fight was one of the more bad judging decisions. I did have it in Condit's favor but round three was the toss up and I'd probably need to go back and watch that round again to see how I felt second time around. It seems harsh towards Condit but this certainly isn't the first time we've seen a champion get the decision in a close fight. Jones getting the decision over Gus was another example and IMO a worst decision than this one.
Close fight whichever way you score it, I'm not really getting where some people are coming from though with thinking this was a horrendous decision or not a close fight. Condit winning even a draw wouldn't have surprised me for this fight, could easily have swung either way in a fight like this.
There's no way this fight was one of the more bad judging decisions. I did have it in Condit's favor but round three was the toss up and I'd probably need to go back and watch that round again to see how I felt second time around. It seems harsh towards Condit but this certainly isn't the first time we've seen a champion get the decision in a close fight. Jones getting the decision over Gus was another example and IMO a worst decision than this one.
Close fight whichever way you score it, I'm not really getting where some people are coming from though with thinking this was a horrendous decision or not a close fight. Condit winning even a draw wouldn't have surprised me for this fight, could easily have swung either way in a fight like this.
Basically this. I think I was trying to will Condit to win while watching the fight. In the heat of the fight it looked like he was destroying Lawler with his huge output and ridiculous combinations but in reality it all hinged on Round 3 which truthfully could have gone either way. Still devastated for him though and I hope it's not the last we see of him in the Octagon as he's a very enjoyable fighter to watch. On the other hand Lawler has taken some punishment recently, every fight he's involved in almost seems to be a contender for Fight of the Year.
Lawler is one tough SOB.
He pretty much beat Rory by being tougher because he was losing the fight pretty decisively, and yet he finally made Rory shut down. I don't think he will hold onto the belt long term, and I can see the belt being passed around a bit.
Just goes to show you how good GSP was in an amazingly talented division.
Ronda isn't getting the first shot at Holm according to Dana. Holly wants to fight sooner than that so seems we could see Tate or somebody else get the first shot. Rousey/Holm 2 will happen though.
Apparently Dana is open for Conor to be two weight champ... what a surprise.
In other news:
Bones at it again
In other news:
Bones at it again
Dos Anjos vs. McGregor and Holm vs. Tate apparently set to be announced for UFC 197 on March 5th, probably a bit too early in the year for me to try and get over to Vegas again.
Unreal card if it's true though, and McGregor is a mad man. I don't like the match up for him but I can't doubt the man at all, I think he'll win.
Unreal card if it's true though, and McGregor is a mad man. I don't like the match up for him but I can't doubt the man at all, I think he'll win.
RDA is just so much biggerDos Anjos vs. McGregor and Holm vs. Tate apparently set to be announced for UFC 197 on March 5th, probably a bit too early in the year for me to try and get over to Vegas again.
Unreal card if it's true though, and McGregor is a mad man. I don't like the match up for him but I can't doubt the man at all, I think he'll win.
He drops a lot to make lightweight....Ive no idea
But jesus you can never claim he backs away from a challenge
McGregor will still tower over him though, which is an advantage Conor uses expertly.
Will be the fun to watch the McGregor doubters all over again!
Officially they are listed as the same height. His size advantage will be completely gone although he will still have a reach advantage. Man this is such a great fight. RDA is in his absolute prime right now and is looking like one of the scariest LW's ever. McGregor has balls of steel jumping up to lightweight and getting in there with him in his first fight in the division. Who's to say Mcgregor won't just KO him like he has done everyone else though? RDA should in theory just throw him down to the mat and beat the ever loving shit out of him like he did to Pettis. However that's how most of Conor's fights should have gone and he's just come through every test with flying colours, blowing everyone's mind along the way. I'm done betting against Conor now, I just know I can't wait for this fight. It really is the famed 'superfight' that has so long been a debate in the UFC.
Definitely, I'm surprised they didn't save it for UFC 200, but I'm not sure New York will go ahead so Cormier Jones makes sense for that card.
That's it for me - bigger man, stronger, generally difficult to see past him.
All depends how much he weight McGregor cuts as it stands. He never looks particularly drained as if he's naturally that much bigger.
Some suggestion that McGregor comes back down to fight Frankie Edgar at UFC 200.
He looked extremely drained for the Mendez fight. Not so much for the Aldo fight though.
Feel sorry for Edgar
Wonder if he will wait for UFC 200.....what if McGregor gets injured in the RDA fight? then he waits longer, or does he run the risk and take a fight against Aldo
Edgar will come out and say McGregor is dodging him, but Connor is taking a far bigger risk against RDA.
Wonder if he will wait for UFC 200.....what if McGregor gets injured in the RDA fight? then he waits longer, or does he run the risk and take a fight against Aldo
Edgar will come out and say McGregor is dodging him, but Connor is taking a far bigger risk against RDA.
Yeah - he looked better for Aldo. Perhaps he's naturally bigger than he looks.
Fair play to him. Its a big challenge - but then again, so was Aldo. He's clearly got faith in himself and its a big money fight for all concerned.
And if he loses, it's hardly going to ruin his reputation as long as he puts up a decent fight.
He hired the nutritionist George Lockhart for the Aldo fight.
I must say I'm impressed. I thought Conor would not go for this fight as RDA is a scary motherfecker but the lads got a set of balls on him. I think Edgar deserves a title shot but no one can say that this fight doesn't excite the hell out of them.
This though shows that Conor has the UFC by the nuts and this is a dangerous thing for them. I don't think Conor is going for a seat between Dana's office and Lorenzo's office. I think he's gonna try move into Dana's office
This though shows that Conor has the UFC by the nuts and this is a dangerous thing for them. I don't think Conor is going for a seat between Dana's office and Lorenzo's office. I think he's gonna try move into Dana's office
And it was only a few weeks before the fight. John Kavanagh said on the MMA Hour he wants him on his team for every fight now from the get go.
RDA is a scary dude, but I can't wait. Imagine, the first two weight UFC world champion being from Ireland! I get goosebumps just thinking about it.
Poor Edgar though, guy deserves his shot. Would have been more fair if they made McGregor vacate the belt when he moved up and had Aldo v Edgar fight for it.
Can't see him beating Dos Anjos either.
Can't see him beating Dos Anjos either.
Cant see past RDA here. If Conor wins though, it would cement his position as pound for pound best fighter.
I feel like with the right mentality, smaller guys going up in weight has absolutely no downside, and for the bigger guy, there typically is no upside.
If RDA wins, he was supposed to win. For Connor, it seems like he is taking a risk, but really, who is going to hold it against him if he loses to a guy that really is, a lot, A LOT bigger than he is.
For Connor there is really no downside. He's going to make big money, if he wins, even more momentum in his career. If he loses, so what, he can go back down. RDA really only has a payday to look forward to, because if he wins, it's kind of "whatever", if he loses, it's going to look bad imo.
If RDA wins, he was supposed to win. For Connor, it seems like he is taking a risk, but really, who is going to hold it against him if he loses to a guy that really is, a lot, A LOT bigger than he is.
For Connor there is really no downside. He's going to make big money, if he wins, even more momentum in his career. If he loses, so what, he can go back down. RDA really only has a payday to look forward to, because if he wins, it's kind of "whatever", if he loses, it's going to look bad imo.
They are the same size.
I really want Khabib to make a comeback such a shame he's so injury prone.
That would have made sense as this way Connor gets his big pay day and numbers, Aldo gets the respect of a second shot at the title fire being undefeated champ for a decade and Edgar gets his shot that was promised to him.
But making sense isn't that bald cnut Dana's forte
McGregor calls the shots.
His latest Facebook status:
His latest Facebook status:
He just shit on Mayweather there.
He sure knows how to whip up a storm.I guess that's why McGregor was so firm about not giving up the belt, he probably knew that would be the sort of compromise the UFC would look for. Especially as Dana's initial position was that he'd have to vacate the belt. Guess McGregor won that argument.