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Fortitude

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With Lesnar, Carwin, Ubereem and even Mark Kerr before them, we've seen gigantic athletic freaks emerge before in heavyweight MMA, and there's been a similar narrative that they're a 'new breed' that are too big for the smaller heavyweights to deal with. Yet when the dust settled it's the likes of Fedor, JDS, Cain and Stipe, who all generally weighed in the 220-240lb range, who ended up at the top of the pile. We've yet to see much evidence that additional bodyweight above that weight range is a huge advantage at the very highest level.

And yet...I expect Ngannou to win and I'm fully on board the hype train :lol:
But... as I said before, you just have to acknowledge that he isn't like any of them in terms of athleticism. His punching power, the speed, the torque, the snap - it's nothing like we've seen in UFC at that weight. The 'ins' that were there vs what's gone before aren't - a 260+ guy beating those smaller guys to the punch is unheard of.

I'll look a right tit if Stipe smashes him tomorrow! :lol:
 

RedFish

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:lol:

I wonder if Valentina will be training with Rose again? That must have given her a massive confidence boost given the Bullets past fight history with JJ.

Still, I rate JJ and Valentina as among the most technically masterful stand up fighters there are, man or woman.

She's a bitch, JJ, no doubt, but I think she was caught off guard the last time out. She'll adapt and win convincingly IMO.
 

The Bloody-Nine

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Maybe she will. She couldn't avoid getting punched in the face last time out, though. Let's hope it happens again.
 

Paxi

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This thread is so big it needs closed or bookmarks @Damien @Raoul

Anyway, Khabib smashes Ferguson into the ground. No way Khabib gets knocked out and there is no way Kahbib doesn't get him on the floor.
Khabib has this division with sambo and judo and no one can do shit about it. And the guys he's up against are very fecking good!

Anyway, I'm half Bashkhortostani, I'm biased! :)
 

The Bloody-Nine

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This thread is so big it needs closed or bookmarks @Damien @Raoul

Anyway, Khabib smashes Ferguson into the ground. No way Khabib gets knocked out and there is no way Kahbib doesn't get him on the floor.
Khabib has this division with sambo and judo and no one can do shit about it. And the guys he's up against are very fecking good!

Anyway, I'm half Bashkhortostani, I'm biased! :)
Khabib will shove McGregor up McGregor's asshole. THE INSIDE OUT SUBMISSION. Can you handle it?
 

Paxi

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Khabib will shove McGregor up McGregor's asshole. THE INSIDE OUT SUBMISSION. Can you handle it?
Er, I don't know, I just think it's Alexander Karelin vs anyone when it comes to ground game. I think you have to knock Khabib into the dirt to win.
 

Damien

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This thread is so big it needs closed or bookmarks @Damien @Raoul

Anyway, Khabib smashes Ferguson into the ground. No way Khabib gets knocked out and there is no way Kahbib doesn't get him on the floor.
Khabib has this division with sambo and judo and no one can do shit about it. And the guys he's up against are very fecking good!

Anyway, I'm half Bashkhortostani, I'm biased! :)
I have zero interest in MMA but I could make Fortitude the threadstarter so he can add some threadmarks.
 

Paxi

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Doesn't look that scary.
A Chuvash and a Tatar sitting together. I bet they want to kill each other.

Before anyone loses their mind no one gives a feck in their respective republics.
 

Raoul

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This thread is so big it needs closed or bookmarks @Damien @Raoul

Anyway, Khabib smashes Ferguson into the ground. No way Khabib gets knocked out and there is no way Kahbib doesn't get him on the floor.
Khabib has this division with sambo and judo and no one can do shit about it. And the guys he's up against are very fecking good!

Anyway, I'm half Bashkhortostani, I'm biased! :)
Easiest way to avoid the size of the thread size is to ignore everything except the last couple of pages.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
But... as I said before, you just have to acknowledge that he isn't like any of them in terms of athleticism. His punching power, the speed, the torque, the snap - it's nothing like we've seen in UFC at that weight. The 'ins' that were there vs what's gone before aren't - a 260+ guy beating those smaller guys to the punch is unheard of.

I'll look a right tit if Stipe smashes him tomorrow! :lol:
He brings a different set of strengths than any of them for sure, but we haven't seen enough yet to really judge his weaknesses, or assess how important they are in relative terms.

Lesnar: Lesnar surely has similar or greater raw strength, incredible 'linear' speed in terms of his freaky quick double leg takedowns, brutal ground and pound, and had good raw punching power judging by that jab that floored Herring. Obviously zero instinct for the striking game, and that completely undone him before long. Ngannou's knack for the striking game seems utterly insane given his lack of experience.

Carwin: Freakish power.


Really, really freakish power, to the extent that you feared for his opponents, just like Ngannou. Miles stronger wrestling credentials than Ngannou though, and finished several fights via takedown and GnP. I could be wrong, but I don't remember him being taken down except vs Lesnar. Ngannou has (briefly) been taken down, has stood back up effortlessly in fairness, but never against top calibre opposition. Ngannou has miles better handspeed though and seems a much more technical striker. Remains to be seen whether Ngannou's stamina will hold up at this level in the later rounds, which was a weakness for Carwin.

Overeem: KO artist, very good technically, yet Ngannou beat him to the punch. Overeem's shown far, far more in the ground game than Francis, although Ngannou clearly hasn't been forced to show anything yet. Ngannou clearly has faster reflexes and handspeed than this older Overeem, and just about everyone has a better chin than him. The bulked up, Ubereem version really did look freaky very briefly - incredibly strong, big power, retained his great striking and grappling base. His chin, workrate and some dreadful decisions in terms of fight IQ just fecked him over.

This is such a rambling post I can't actually remember why I started it, but basically these invincible super-sized behemoths all tend to look invncible until, all of a sudden, they don't. We still haven't really seen Francis tested against a relentless pressure fighter, a good wrestler, a guy that can test his cardio. Stipe can do all of that, and test his chin too.

The weirdness in all of this is that if I had to bet I'd go with Ngannou by 1st round KO/TKO, but I just think that Stipe is better than people are acknowledging, and that there's been a historic tendency to overlook the (potential) flaws of the gigantic heavyweight wrecking balls that we've seen before.
 

Fortitude

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Sorted now anyway.
:nervous:
He brings a different set of strengths than any of them for sure, but we haven't seen enough yet to really judge his weaknesses, or assess how important they are in relative terms.

Lesnar: Lesnar surely has similar or greater raw strength, incredible 'linear' speed in terms of his freaky quick double leg takedowns, brutal ground and pound, and had good raw punching power judging by that jab that floored Herring. Obviously zero instinct for the striking game, and that completely undone him before long. Ngannou's knack for the striking game seems utterly insane given his lack of experience.

Carwin: Freakish power.


Really, really freakish power, to the extent that you feared for his opponents, just like Ngannou. Miles stronger wrestling credentials than Ngannou though, and finished several fights via takedown and GnP. I could be wrong, but I don't remember him being taken down except vs Lesnar. Ngannou has (briefly) been taken down, has stood back up effortlessly in fairness, but never against top calibre opposition. Ngannou has miles better handspeed though and seems a much more technical striker. Remains to be seen whether Ngannou's stamina will hold up at this level in the later rounds, which was a weakness for Carwin.

Overeem: KO artist, very good technically, yet Ngannou beat him to the punch. Overeem's shown far, far more in the ground game than Francis, although Ngannou clearly hasn't been forced to show anything yet. Ngannou clearly has faster reflexes and handspeed than this older Overeem, and just about everyone has a better chin than him. The bulked up, Ubereem version really did look freaky very briefly - incredibly strong, big power, retained his great striking and grappling base. His chin, workrate and some dreadful decisions in terms of fight IQ just fecked him over.

This is such a rambling post I can't actually remember why I started it, but basically these invincible super-sized behemoths all tend to look invncible until, all of a sudden, they don't. We still haven't really seen Francis tested against a relentless pressure fighter, a good wrestler, a guy that can test his cardio. Stipe can do all of that, and test his chin too.

The weirdness in all of this is that if I had to bet I'd go with Ngannou by 1st round KO/TKO, but I just think that Stipe is better than people are acknowledging, and that there's been a historic tendency to overlook the (potential) flaws of the gigantic heavyweight wrecking balls that we've seen before.
I guess the way I'm waxing lyrical about a relatively unproven fighter over someone who is a tried and tested champion of the division could appear hyperbolic or premature, and I get that, but, I do believe that once in a while freakish fighters come along and change divisions or raise the bar to a degree where comparing them to others or what has gone before is pretty redundant, and I genuinely think that's the case with Ngannou just as it was with Cain.

A bit like when fighters are in camp preparing for a uniquely styled fighter and can't get anyone in who matches them and are thus still somewhat unprepared until they actually face, and survive, a round or two with the fighter in question and get a feel for them first-hand.

Funnily enough, I don't doubt Stipe's credentials; I just believe that Ngannou is basically a Super Heavyweight in a Heavyweight division, if that makes sense. You can obviously point towards loads of 260lb plus fighters and say they've come and gone in orderly fashion, but apart from Lesner, I don't think any of them fit that 'freak' category where speed and athleticism is there alongside effortless mass. By effortless mass, I mean just a bigger breed of men who walk around at the kind of size that means they have to cut weight to make UFC's heaviest division, and not because they're out of shape or are smaller men who have packed on too much muscle, but because they are the next size up.

I'm not particularly versed in American sport, but I've been told a few times that someone like Lebron represents this in NBA for being the athletic match of much smaller and lighter men, and that the NFL is choc-a-bloc with men who get absurd results in testing that make little sense when their weight is factored in.

I honestly believe Ngannou goes into this fight as the faster, more athletic and better reflexive fighter; I think he can and will beat Stipe to the punch and react and counter better than him whilst being 20lbs+ heavier and having a longer reach. The equaliser for Miocic should be wrestling, but to wrestle, he has to close the distance, and level change as well, both of which come with a huge element of risk, especially so when shooting into a fighter whose most devastating punch is a video game uppercut.

Miocic fights with his head up and rarely takes it off the centre line, he also generally relies on his own reflexes and counters to land short hooks with little wind up after offering his chin as bait; he doesn't fight long, which makes sense given his wrestling background, but he also doesn't tuck, which is why he gets tagged a fair few times, either in pursuit or when retreating. A sequence I can imagine happening is Ngannou throwing or feinting a wide, looping overhand right that Miocic slides inside of trying to land a short hook counter of his own that is in turn met by Ngannou using his reflexes to pivot off of his baiting start point and launch a barrage of his own with a leading hook combination. It goes without saying that this is high stakes affair with a very real element of one of them going to sleep off a clean and vicious strike landed against the other betting on their own reflexes to evade.

For me, this is the most exciting HW bout in years. Huge, huge kudos to Stipe if he goes in there and makes a mockery of what I've said. In my opinion, the odds are stacked against him in this fight.
 
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Can’t wait for this

Something about heavyweights, I guess it’s than anticipation that a brutal ko is just a moment away

Can’t pick it either

Expect DC to get it done though
 

Andersons Dietician

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Honestly can’t make up my mind how tonight’s fight goes. In one hand I feel like Stipe can pull off another fight saving shocker as Overeem had him in trouble and JDS has him fooked up in that fight with the calf kick and Stipe said he didn’t think he’d last much longer unless he finished it and boom he finds the shot. It’s the heavyweights so really one shot either way could end this fight but a good huge man is always going get my vote over a good big man.

Hope JJ obliterates Rose this time out and really makes a statement, can’t stand Rose, she was an ass in the TUF house and has continued to be so.

Holloway fighting again in a pretty quick turn around should be a good fight. Really the only guy in the division left to beat other than Yair and maybe that is a little too soon for him after failing against Frankie.
 

RedFish

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Agree re: Yair, he was schooled by Edgar, it really wasn't a contest. He needs to build himself back up. Max is the last person he should be thinking about next.
 

Adam-Utd

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Can't wait for the HW bout, Ngannou is very Conor Mcgregor to me. He shows insane power and speed and nobody truly knows how good they are as they haven't been "taken deep" yet. They'll keep on winning and people will still doubt them, but tonight there is no excuses.

I think Stipe might be able to use his experience and try to drag the fight out, I think the longer it goes the better chance he's got. If he goes toe to toe with Ngannou though somebody's head is coming off.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Max letting Tony and Kahbib know he has an eye on them and he’ll happily step in if one of them falls out of the fight. Pretty much making his intentions known that he’ll probably go up a weight. Honestly think he might have over taken Condit as my favourite fighter on the roster.
 

George Owen

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Heavyweight Stipe Miocic (c) vs. Francis Ngannou

Light Heavyweight Daniel Cormier (c) vs. Volkan Oezdemir

Featherweight Calvin Kattar vs. Shane Burgos

Light Heavyweight Gian Villante vs. Francimar Barroso

Bantamweight Thomas Almeida vs. Rob Font

less than an hour for the early prelims.. :D