What do you mean by Cycle? I'm not all that clued up on steroid taking but surely somebody in his position would be being tested every few days? I don't see how he could possibly hope to get away with it
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- Thread starter Fortitude
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A cycle is basically the time they're taking the steroids for. I.e. Jones and other abusers won't be having steroids all day every day they'll have a cycle or they'll load up and then stop and then do the same again.
There's a few documentaries on the subject of doping which are worth watching (Lance Armstrong ones, the new one on Netflix called Iracus.) It's all pretty interesting stuff really but essentially a lot of them are prepared to go the extra mile and a lot of them are 1 step ahead of the testers.
There's to much on Jones for me to think it's a set up or whatever I just think he's a bit of an idiot really.
Why should it have been a setup?
He did it before...
He did it before...
It's seem pretty odd to take an oral steroid, after testing clean in the whole build to then pop a pill between the weigh in and the fight? Like it wouldn't make a bit of difference and but 100% you are getting caught?
Then again, Jones is an addict there are plenty of stories of people with addictions where you can say "Why did he do that, so stupid" Sometimes logic just goes out the window.
Then again, Jones is an addict there are plenty of stories of people with addictions where you can say "Why did he do that, so stupid" Sometimes logic just goes out the window.
Thats it. Dude coulda been the GOAT. Now everything hes ever achieved will be written off.
While hes a fecking idiot of the highest order you cant help but feel a bit sad.
Such a waste of talent.
While hes a fecking idiot of the highest order you cant help but feel a bit sad.
Such a waste of talent.
Ffs. It's always something.
I don't think they test for all drugs every time a fighter is tested. So a fighter could test clean for 4 tests in a row and then get caught on the 5th test, as that drug was tested that time.
We know he was using for the first DC fight and never got popped. I've got low T, but not low enough to get TRT on the NHS. There are a number of guys who are in a similar situation and desperately want their levels to drop just 10% so the fall under 8 ng/dl and can get treated on the NHS. Guys try all sorts of tricks to get this to happen and it doesn't work. So the idea that Jones's test levels had dropped so low due to over training etc is just complete BS. HIs levels were low due to using AAS. But he never popped. So whatever AAS he was using wasn't being tested for or he was using an effective masking agent.
We know he was using for the first DC fight and never got popped. I've got low T, but not low enough to get TRT on the NHS. There are a number of guys who are in a similar situation and desperately want their levels to drop just 10% so the fall under 8 ng/dl and can get treated on the NHS. Guys try all sorts of tricks to get this to happen and it doesn't work. So the idea that Jones's test levels had dropped so low due to over training etc is just complete BS. HIs levels were low due to using AAS. But he never popped. So whatever AAS he was using wasn't being tested for or he was using an effective masking agent.
It's funny that people are surprised by this or feel let down.
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Would he have been a top 10 guy without steroids? He made millions of dollars in his career. Without steroids he'd probably be as rich and famous as someone like Rashad Evans.
He's quite a lanky guy, without the strength benefits of AAS, would he have been able to stop wrestlers rag dolling him?
I mean, many a mediocre fighters have used steroids and got nowhere.
Yes.
Yes.
We will just have to wait and see how this story unravels. I have zero evidence for this but I believe this probably all started when he started lifting heavy a couple of years back (pre Ovince, maybe).
We know that isn't true as the first DC fight happened before that and his Test levels were crazy low.
But that doesn't tell where Jones would be without steroids. I'm not saying that everyone else isn't using. I said in this very thread a about a week before he got busted that Anderson Silva will be on PED's. The point is that someone suggested that he's wasted his talent and I'm saying that if he hadn't taken steroids he'd not have millions in the bank and super famous. I've always been pro steroids in UFC, as the sport was built on steroid using athletes. Most of the organizations that fighters go through to get to the UFC have limited or no testing.
If Jones fought the best guys and he wasn't using PED's he'd be screwed. So using PED's hasn't been a waste of his talent.
It does sound very suspicious. It’s not as if you can take an oral pill the day of the event and have it magically turn you into Superman, and I just refuse to believe Jones would attempt to do something like that with the obvious knowledge that it wouldn’t help his performance and would almost certainly get picked up in a test. Something doesn’t smell right here.
Jones is the best fighter regardless. Its all about his fighting technique.
I said maybe, wasn't sure on the exact fight but we are talking about a time frame that only covers a portion of his career. He fought wrestlers before DC, he has never really had any trouble in this department.....maybe with his eye on moving to heavyweight (and with DC being a former heavyweight) he could have been potentially worried of a ragdolling thus the juice.
Pre USADA.
So why do all the top fighters take PED's then. It sounds as if you don't believe in the "Enhancing" part of PED.
Pre USADA applies to all his opponents too, no?
That may have been the perception years ago but the testing system that has been put in place seems to have radically reduced that. It is very difficult to take steroids these days and get away with the old school masking techniques used by athletes from prior generations. Therefore it makes little sense that Jones would attempt to do something that he and his team knew would ruin his career with little to no performance benefit.
Yes, but I'm not suggesting his opponents weren't using. I'm saying if he wasn't using, then he'd have a problem. If you go back to my initial reply, it's to suggest that using PED's hasn't been a waste of Jones talent, not that he was using them and others weren't.
He got caught with Tbol. That was made to improve athletic performance. It's not one of those steroids that had a use in medicine and then started being used by athletes. It was designed purely to cheat in sport. It allows an athlete to maintain strength whilst losing weight. That's why it's not that popular among bodybuilders. It's a sports performance drug.
We know Jones was getting away with it as his previous results told us he was using something that wasn't showing up on the tests.
You are burying your head in the sand here.
Are you getting that from the TMZ report? Are they reliable (I thought they were more into the "who is a Kardashian banging" type of story than actual sports news)?
I think you're jumping to conclusions to fit your preconceived narrative about Jones and cheating. We don't know the specifics other than what has been reported on sites like TMZ, so its best to wait and see how the second test comes out and whether there is a legitimate explanation for all of this. The fact that White hasn't yet stripped him is a good sign that there may be more to come on this. What i do know from my own experience is you can't just pop a pill and have it suddenly transform you into a monster the day of an event, so let's wait til more facts come out before jumping to conclusions.
Yes, its all sourced from the original TMZ report.
His talent is through the roof....juice or not. As Raoul pointed out it is his technique and leverage that sets him apart from any fighter that has stepped in the octagon. He would still be a great fighter without steroids, IF it can be proven that he took them.
UFC haven't stripped yet, so we just got to wait and see what has happened here.
You are still missing my point. Someone suggested that by taking steroids he's wasted his talent. My point is that he hasn't, as without them he wouldn't be where he is today. Regardless of how talented he is or if everyone else is taking them that still is true, unless you are one of the guys that don't believe these drugs sufficiently enhance performance to make them worth taking. But only the super naive people can think that. PED's have enabled Jones to showcase his talent, become a world champion and a multi millionaire. That isn't a waste and doesn't change if every other fighter in the UFC is on the exact same drug regime as him.
In fairness to Jones, you don't know the extent of his steroid use (or lack thereof), especially as it relates to his success in a sport where PED use was alleged to be rampant until they instituted the USADA system. Even if you believe the fatuous notion Jones became a champ exclusively through PED use, it still wouldn't make sense since most the competition would've also been using them.
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You are missing my point. I don't care that Jones uses or that everyone uses. I only started posting in response to the guy saying he wasted his talent. I'm saying that by using PED's he didn't waste his talent, he got to show case it.
Of course they improve you physically, that goes without saying. You have failed to appreciate his talent level and wish to attribute his WHOLE career to Ped's, this is where we disagree my friend.
I do appreciate your point though, if it turns out to be true he will have completely tarnished his whole career.
It's kind of pointless to debate how good Jones is without PED's. The fact is no one can really know. We don't know how long he's been using and getting away with it, or how much difference they made to his performances yada yada. That's the thing with PED's, they ruin the competition. We follow these sports to find out who is the best on a level playing field. PED cheats deny us that honest competition.
As for Jones I would normally be more reserved and willing to wait it out or give him the benefit of the doubt but he has had far too much scandal surrounding him for it to be a coincidence. Would it be stupid to take a pill on the weekend of the fight? Absolutely. It's also stupid to run away from a traffic accident of your making, and then run back again for your cash and then run away again.
As for Jones I would normally be more reserved and willing to wait it out or give him the benefit of the doubt but he has had far too much scandal surrounding him for it to be a coincidence. Would it be stupid to take a pill on the weekend of the fight? Absolutely. It's also stupid to run away from a traffic accident of your making, and then run back again for your cash and then run away again.
I don't attribute his whole career to PED's. What I'm saying is that in a sport where PED use is rife, it's not a waste if a guy who has achieved what Jones has gets caught.
This is the post I replied to:
"Such a waste of talent."
I'm saying his PED use isn't a waste of talent. He's competing in a sport rife with PED use. He showed super human strength the stand up when Vitor (juiced the gills) had him in a deep arm bar. So using PED's isn't a waste, as otherwise he almost certainly wouldn't have achieved what he has achieved.
You are still working off the presumption that he has 100% used PED's his whole career. We aren't going to agree here.
I think the reality is no one knows either way and no one will never know unless Jones gives a Lance Armstrong style confession.
I can understand people suggesting he's done it his whole career though, if anyone has lost the right of innocent until proven guilty it is Jones there is to many mistakes now to just ignore them. Equally I can see why people think this is all a bit odd as it seems so stupid that no one would actually do it. Jones and stupid go hand in hand though unfortunately.
I can understand people suggesting he's done it his whole career though, if anyone has lost the right of innocent until proven guilty it is Jones there is to many mistakes now to just ignore them. Equally I can see why people think this is all a bit odd as it seems so stupid that no one would actually do it. Jones and stupid go hand in hand though unfortunately.
5.20 is interesting. He brings steroids into the conversation in a rather strange way
. Saying 'I beat him off the steroids' is an odd way to phrase it unless you also spend time 'on the steroids'.When he was lifting heavy a while back I felt something was up. Still personally feel that the roids would have been used with one eye on moving up to Heavyweight, rather than a career long strategy. But then again as you and others have said....we just don't really know. @redmeister could be completely correct here.
5.20 is interesting. He brings steroids into the conversation in a rather strange way
But this happened after the first Cormier fight.
The first fight with Cormier was Jones first time under USADA. In one of those tests, his Testosterone levels came back at 59 ng/dl. That means his body was virtually producing no testosterone. It's average for a 10 year old boy and about 1 tenth of the average levels for a guy Jones age. But the drug test came back negative. It was put down to it being a dip due to excessive training, which is complete nonsense. This is why USADA went after him so hard. They knew, but had to publicly come up with BS reasons why his levels were so low. The only exercise you could do to make your levels that low is to repeatedly punch yourself in the nuts until they no longer work. The reality is his testicles stopped producing testosterone which happens due to the use of AAS. Interestingly one of the medications used to get your body to start producing testosterone again after it's shutdown from steroid use is called Cloimd. And guess what Jones has just served a suspension for? That's right - Clomid.
You have to be crazy naive to think anything other than Jones is a long term PED user.
Even more absurd is that if he was on something that he would openly admit it on TV like that.
5.20 is interesting. He brings steroids into the conversation in a rather strange way
Literally the most active/aggressive version of Jones I've ever seen.
Then there is this.
